Whedon's Doctor Horrible

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Maseiken
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Maseiken » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:57 pm UTC

I believe they publically subscribe to the Badass Spike Philosophy. "The world is much more fun when not destroyed, since then we can do evil things in it"
Doubtlessly many of them have plans beyond the mere doing of evil (Dr Horrible for one) But the ELE stands as a United Front for a greater Scale of Evil separate from their own agendas.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:33 pm UTC

I'd imagine the ELE, besides being a joke, is probably more for anti-hero work. Heroes, after all, can team up and it doesn't bother anyone's agendas. So the ELE makes sense to counter their efforts, while most of the evil is probably done by the individual members.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby aleflamedyud » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:08 pm UTC

Awia wrote:one thing I'm interested in, how does the ELE actually work? I'm assuming all the villains either want to destroy the world or rule it, surely they would all kind of get in each others way? Or do they have some sort of agreement?

Which show was it where the villains teamed up with the explicitly declared intent of betraying each other once the heroes were beaten and the world subdued?
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Maseiken » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:28 am UTC

...All of them?
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:40 pm UTC

No, in all of them the villains plan on betraying each other, but in most they don't tell each other that. I can't put my finger on the name of one in which they said to each other, "Yeah, we subjugate the world and then we kill each other."
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:54 am UTC

try the thread where you cannot remember the name of a show.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby McCaber » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:22 am UTC

Was it just me, or did the guy shaking Captain Hammer's hand at about 1:45 into episode 2 look like Ron Glass/Shepherd Book?
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby MotorToad » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:51 pm UTC

I did not notice that. But thanks for making me watch it again! :D

Edit: Doesn't really look like him, no. His hairline is too far back.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Phen » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:02 pm UTC

I can't watch it anymore! :(
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:55 pm UTC

Phen wrote:I can't watch it anymore! :(


because you are sick of it or because you are incapable?
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Phen » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:10 pm UTC

The latter, of course. Hulu doesn't like me anymore.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Jack Saladin » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:44 am UTC

When the hell is the soundtrack coming out? It's been forever!

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:52 am UTC

I think lack of an official soundtrack is pretty firm ethical basis to go torrent a fan-edited soundtrack in the meantime.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Jack Saladin » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:57 am UTC

Well, crap, if I'd known they existed earlier...

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Ati » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:17 am UTC

Jack Saladin wrote:Well, crap, if I'd known they existed earlier...



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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:01 am UTC

I'm surprised that it^ cost more than the show itself but whatever I bought it to put on my ipod.

It's nice having it in the background of doing stuff on the internet or hw and whatnot.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby GiantSnowman » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:02 pm UTC

You know, the whole thing is all Penny's fault!
If she would have resisted Hammer's cheesy smile she could have turned Billy around. In fact, she was halfway there during her song in the laundry room. (doesn't your brain grow daisies on the inside when you hear it)
Then, she was interrupted by her new boyfriend who showed up just to be an asshole to our dear docter.

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:02 pm UTC

how dare you sir!^ it was not penny's fault that billy never had the courage to talk to her before or that captain hammer is such an asshole.
btw in the laundry room billy was leaving and penny's song was over when hammer entered. don't blame the only truly good person in this whole thing... bastard...
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Maseiken » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:14 am UTC

Well... the song DID end with Penny saying "It's just like Captain Hammer is always saying"
That might not be your best argument there...
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:49 am UTC

Maseiken wrote:Well... the song DID end with Penny saying "It's just like Captain Hammer is always saying"
That might not be your best argument there...


that wasn't my argument i was just saying that by the way he did not interrupt them. but yeah she did say that.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby telcontar42 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:54 am UTC

Well, first of all, the whole thing is really primarily Captain Hammer's fault. He's the asshole we should all blame. However, I guess Penny is partially to blame as well. Captain Hammer was a huge dick. She should have been able to see that third, even deeper layer that is the same as the top surface one. Like pie. Unfortunately, I think that as a result of the goodness and naivety that makes her such a wonderful character, she is unable to see anything but the good in people. That may be why she didn't realize Captain Hammer was scum.

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Clockwork_Golem » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:25 am UTC

I saw Dr. Horrible for the first time today after seeing it mentioned here.

I am pleased by its awesomeness.

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:16 am UTC

Er, Penny's the only blameless person. Sure, Dr. Horrible had the hots for her, but he was already on the road to Dastardly Doings long before he met her. Sure, it's possible Penny could have saved him, but it's sure as fuck not her fault that she didn't. Nor was it her responsibility to do so. Now, obviously Mr. Hammer was a different person around her than towards his nemesis.. but that's kinda the Hero/Villain thing. You aren't exactly polite to one another.

So.. yeah, the whole thing is primarily Dr. Horrible's fault. Captain Hammer is simply his foil. Penny was there to
Spoiler:
get killed, thus turning Dr. Horrible into a cold, unfeeling bastard.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:28 am UTC

Dr Horrible's fault, with Captain Hammer highly frowned upon for both deliberately messing with him and not arresting the supervillain when you see him totally defenseless.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby GiantSnowman » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:35 am UTC

Okay, so I exaggerated a bit to be funny, which I thought it was because there is a grain of truth in it. Hear me out.

Captain Hammer is evil. He only does the superhero thing to show how awesome he is, while utterly failing as a human being. Real superheroes are always trying to show villians the error of their ways, while Captain Hammer won't even arrest them just so he can beat them up again next week. He is not at all interested in anyone's safety, in fact, he wants villians to become more evil and dangerous so he looks more awesome when he kills them.
He truely is the worst of the plague that devours humanity.

Billy sees the problem of humanity's suffering differently then Penny does. Where she focuses on individual care and inspiring pity, he sees a greater lucifer effect-like problem that needs to be fixed in the system. He seeks power to do good but the system probably put him in his place just like it did with Penny. He is, unfortunately, smart enough to find other ways to power eventually leading to him getting in league with the evil league of evil.

Penny, even with all her goodness, fails at a critical moment when she picks Hammer over our docter. And then again when she fails to yell: "Don't kill him!" (to any of the two). The naivity that led to these mistakes is what makes her cute, but it would've been better for her if she was wise instead. (not for the story though, which was awesome)

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Kerberos » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:04 am UTC

Hm, I've watched it... about 3 times, plus some more viewings of my favorite songs (Slipping, Brand New Day), in the past few days. It is very awesome.

I'd have to put the blame halfway between Dr. Horrible and Captain Hammer. Horrible is trying to take over the world, with the aim of making it a better place, and Captain Reyno- Hammer is trying to save it, but pretty much just to puff up his ego and beat people up without charges of assault.

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby cephalopod9 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:20 am UTC

GiantSnowman wrote:Penny, even with all her goodness, fails at a critical moment when she picks Hammer over our docter.

She was in the process of leaving him, you'll notice, towards the end of his "Everyone's a hero" song.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Belgernon » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:03 pm UTC

It seems to me that Penny would have had a very positive effect on who ever she ended up with. I'd like to think that eventually, Penny could have made Cap. Hammer less of a douche-nozzle, and eventually he would start doing positive things for the sake of doing them, instead of making himself look good. He seemed to be sort of starting to lean that way at the beginning of Act III, even if he was just doing the stuff for the homeless so he could sleep with Penny again.

But, of course, we all know that Penny should forever be with Dr. Horrible. I'd also like to think that had they ended up together, Dr. Horrible would have eventually come around to not letting his dark side be his driving factor in the social change he wanted to better humanity. Penny would have helped him see he could use his intellect make humanity better in more positive ways that don't involve ruling the world. Of course, this means Captain Hammer would go on being an ass-hat.

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:12 am UTC

GiantSnowman wrote:You know, the whole thing is all Penny's fault!
If she would have resisted Hammer's cheesy smile she could have turned Billy around. In fact, she was halfway there during her song in the laundry room. (doesn't your brain grow daisies on the inside when you hear it)
Then, she was interrupted by her new boyfriend who showed up just to be an asshole to our dear docter.

He who makes the final choice bears the final responsibility.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:14 am UTC

Belgernon wrote:It seems to me that Penny would have had a very positive effect on who ever she ended up with. I'd like to think that eventually, Penny could have made Cap. Hammer less of a douche-nozzle, and eventually he would start doing positive things for the sake of doing them, instead of making himself look good. He seemed to be sort of starting to lean that way at the beginning of Act III, even if he was just doing the stuff for the homeless so he could sleep with Penny again.

But, of course, we all know that Penny should forever be with Dr. Horrible. I'd also like to think that had they ended up together, Dr. Horrible would have eventually come around to not letting his dark side be his driving factor in the social change he wanted to better humanity. Penny would have helped him see he could use his intellect make humanity better in more positive ways that don't involve ruling the world. Of course, this means Captain Hammer would go on being an ass-hat.

Somehow I think that even if Dr. Horrible started helping the homeless and inventing jetpacks so people can go to the moon and become florists, Captain Hammer would still be a douchebag to him.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby fuffybaby18 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:10 pm UTC

Evil League of Evil is open for business!
http://www.evilleagueofevil.com/

At this point, the only problem is going to be keeping it at 3 minutes....

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:26 pm UTC

^That is awesome I'm gonna go search youtube for entries.
I wish I was more creative.

look up the villain "average" on youtube. I think her singing is actually pretty good.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Yakk » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:59 pm UTC

sugarhyped wrote:^That is awesome I'm gonna go search youtube for entries.
I wish I was more creative.

look up the villain "average" on youtube. I think her singing is actually pretty good.

A link might help. average villain returns a spew of search results.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby aleflamedyud » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:28 pm UTC

By the way, did anyone else listen to the show a few times and realize that Penny's song "Keep Your Head Up, Billy Buddy" is full of horrible failure? At least according to the lyrics, it seems to document a thought-process something like this:

1. You think life sucks. I'm going to cheer you up.
2. I used to think life sucks. I got fired from jobs and didn't date much. I was t3h l00zer.
3. Now I have a boyfriend who appears to take an interest in my work with the homeless if I squint real hard. Therefore my life is sunshine and rainbows!
4. If my life is sunshine and rainbows, you should cheer up. QED.

It's actually horribly callous.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:38 pm UTC

@Yakk: I edited a link in. I picked the shorter one.

aleflamedyud wrote:By the way, did anyone else listen to the show a few times and realize that Penny's song "Keep Your Head Up, Billy Buddy" is full of horrible failure? At least according to the lyrics, it seems to document a thought-process something like this:

1. You think life sucks. I'm going to cheer you up.
2. I used to think life sucks. I got fired from jobs and didn't date much. I was t3h l00zer.
3. Now I have a boyfriend who appears to take an interest in my work with the homeless if I squint real hard. Therefore my life is sunshine and rainbows!
4. If my life is sunshine and rainbows, you should cheer up. QED.

It's actually horribly callous.


I don't like to be mean, but that is stupid. She is not saying that at all.

Here’s a story of a girl
Who grew up lost and lonely
Thinking love was fairytale
And trouble was made only for me

Even in the darkness
Every color can be found
And every day of rain
Brings water flowing
To things growing in the ground

Grief replaced with pity
For a city barely coping
Dreams are easy to achieve
If hope is all I’m hoping to be

Anytime you’re hurt there’s one
Who has it worse around
And every drop of rain
Will keep you growing
Seeds you’re sowing in the ground

So keep your head up Billy, buddy


Where in that does it mention the stuff on your list. I'm not great at analyzing in profound ways but here is what I see.
1) My life was not all perfect.
2) Even bad things can bring goodness.
3) I decided to try and help people less fortunate instead of feeling sorry for myself.
4) There are people worse off than you so suck it up.

Except Penny is nice; she did mention Hammer at the end, but it was to distract from them both wanting to kiss.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Maseiken » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:18 am UTC

Also, it's a musical, since it's hard to get stuff to rhyme, about half the meaning is usually in the music itself. Listen to some of Jesus Christ Superstar to see what I mean. It's a sign of a good writer that they can work their actual intention into the music as well as most of the songs in Dr Horrible. A sign of a good poet, really...
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:42 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:By the way, did anyone else listen to the show a few times and realize that Penny's song "Keep Your Head Up, Billy Buddy" is full of horrible failure? At least according to the lyrics, it seems to document a thought-process something like this:

1. You think life sucks. I'm going to cheer you up.
2. I used to think life sucks. I got fired from jobs and didn't date much. I was t3h l00zer.
3. Now I have a boyfriend who appears to take an interest in my work with the homeless if I squint real hard. Therefore my life is sunshine and rainbows!
4. If my life is sunshine and rainbows, you should cheer up. QED.

It's actually horribly callous.


I think 3, if you're referring to "Grief replaced with pity", refers to her--that is, she took her own sadness and applied it to others, and then she's trying to tell Billy that he too can have a turnaround or something.

C'mon guys, if Penny's also a jerk, we don't have anyone who approaches "admirable" in this thing.
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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby Maseiken » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:00 am UTC

Moist seems like a nice guy...
"GRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOWR!!!!"
(Translation: "Objection!")

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Re: Whedon's Doctor Horrible

Postby sugarhyped » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:14 am UTC

Maseiken wrote:Moist seems like a nice guy...

the guy who suggested killing a kid or smothering an old lady?
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