Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diemo » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:22 pm UTC

Further show speculation (trigger: rape)
Spoiler:
So I am going off this
article which I read somewhere (probably from these forums as well). Given how the show has been going so far, I think that it is possible that she will be raped by Petyr Baelish. There was the whole kissing scene that Lysa saw as well.

Continuing above, now with book spoliers
Spoiler:
I know that in the books, Balish is pretty creepy towards Sansa, but he wants to marry her to Harry the Heir, and he (given the mysoginistic world protrayed) probably wouldnt take a woman who had had sex. As such I don't think that book Baelish would take it any further than the creepy kisses.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:50 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:Further show speculation (trigger: rape)
Spoiler:
So I am going off this
article which I read somewhere (probably from these forums as well). Given how the show has been going so far, I think that it is possible that she will be raped by Petyr Baelish. There was the whole kissing scene that Lysa saw as well.

Spoiler:
Since they are talking about an episode that has already been filmed, it can't be something from season 5. So they are talking about something we have already seen (or that will happen the very next episode). Most likely the riot in King's Landing
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:53 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:This is why other forums use a "book discussion" thread and a separate "no book discussion" thread. I accidentally spoiled somebody the same way a page or so ago.

No, this is why I think we'd be better off if I just locked both threads as all you assholes can't keep the shit separate.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adam H » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:58 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:This is why other forums use a "book discussion" thread and a separate "no book discussion" thread. I accidentally spoiled somebody the same way a page or so ago.

No, this is why I think we'd be better off if I just locked both threads as all you assholes can't keep the shit separate.

Go one step further and just close down the whole forum. We don't deserve nice things.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lazar » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:36 pm UTC

Non-reader speculation:

Spoiler:
So even given that this thing is going to be 66 minutes, I'm struggling to imagine how they're going to fit everything in. I was trying to tally up all the running plotlines, and we have:

1. Bran and his magic tree stuff
2. Jon Snow going north of the Wall to meet Mance
3. the Boltons and Reek doing their thing, plus the Ironborn generally failing at things
4. Littlefinger and Sansa being all schemy
5. something involving Arya, the Hound and Brienne
6. Tyrion's trial stuff, plus Tommen and Margaery
7. the Mannis preparing to implement his Plannis
8. Dany continuing to be boring over in Essos, with Jorah the Explorer possibly becoming a divergent subplot
9. probably something else that I'm forgetting, plus Gendry's continuing attempt to set a world record in endurance rowing

Now we know from the preview and/or can reasonably anticipate that the Bran, Wall and Tyrion plotlines will be significantly developed, and that the Arya and Dany plotlines will at least be touched upon. Now despite the appearance of Dany and her dragons in the trailer, I have a strong suspicion that nothing really exciting is going to take place with her, and that we're probably just going to get a hint at things yet to come - and that Jorah probably won't appear at all. Regarding Arya, people online have deduced from a preview shot that she'll be meeting Brienne. But this has me perplexed: why does she still appear to be wandering the countryside with the Hound? Why won't she be going up to the Eyrie and reuniting with Sansa? Do the guards reject them as liars or something? (I guess a Stark reunion of any kind is too good to be true.) In any case, I fear that Brienne may not be received as warmly by Arya as she might like.

Regarding the Wall, I suppose what will happen is that Jon Snow will work out some sort of agreement with Mance whereby they'll cooperate against the White Walker threat. (I greatly doubt that we're going to see any more combat on the Wall itself – I mean, they couldn't top what they did in the last episode.) But at the same time, I expect that it won't turn out as I expect, because that seems too simplistic. Jon Snow's departure from the gate and fade to white do seem to portend exciting things. But I think Jon Snow has plot armor for some time to come: we still have to resolve the mystery of his parentage, and I strongly suspect (based on no evidence at all) that some interaction between him and Dany will play a part in the conclusion of the series. I mean, he brings the Ice and she brings the Fire, right? Unless the Walkers bring the ice, in which case he just brings glumness and amazing hair.

Regarding Tyrion, I think his plot armor is severely dented but still holding. Call me naive, but on an intuitive level I don't see him dying. Even this show is not free from convention, and the way things were set up ("I sentence you to death!" – cut to Tyrion looking shocked! – end episode! – wait two weeks to find out!) just screams to me that the sentence isn't going to be carried out. On the other hand, I think some blood will be shed in King's Landing. I recently heard a stimulating piece of speculation from a fellow non-reader: maybe Jaime will intentionally get himself killed while saving Tyrion. At that point, Tywin – who values House Lannister over everything – couldn't kill off his one remaining son no matter how much he wanted to. Honestly, based on Jaime's character arc this season, his death feels more plausible to me than Tyrion's. His growing sense of moral conflict and alienation from the family seem to me like harbingers of tragedy, similar to the way in which Ygritte was torn between her people and Jon Snow. And what an awesome death scene he could have! But for gods' sake, if you've read the books, don't give me even the slightest hint of whether or not this is what happens. (What seems almost 100% certain to me is that some major character will die.)

Regarding the Prince With the Promissory Note, I really want to see him do something, but I have this nagging fear that he may not appear in the next episode at all. Guh, when is somebody not married to or descended from a Lannister going to rule this place?! Regarding the Boltons and Reek, I strongly suspect that they won't appear – the legitimization scene seemed like a decent wrap for them for the season. The most recent scenes with Littlefinger and Sansa also seemed good to end the season, so I suspect that they won't appear either. On the other hand, I expect that someone I'm not expecting to appear probably will appear.

Regarding Bran, no clue.

So anyway, I'm anxious to see how they fit so much stuff into one episode. What's encouraging is that the finale is the one episode from this season that they're submitting for the writing Emmy. So it has to be good, right? D&D are saying it's the best finale yet, although you'd hardly expect them not to say that.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:00 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:Non-reader speculation:


I'll join in.

Spoiler:
4. Littlefinger and Sansa being all schemy
5. something involving Arya, the Hound and Brienne


Spoiler:
Brienne may meet up with Littlefinger and Sansa instead. They're all heading to the Eyrie . The Eyrie is a very interesting place right now, so much chaos is possible depending on who meets who, and what happens.


Spoiler:
Regarding Arya, people online have deduced from a preview shot that she'll be meeting Brienne. But this has me perplexed: why does she still appear to be wandering the countryside with the Hound? Why won't she be going up to the Eyrie and reuniting with Sansa? Do the guards reject them as liars or something? (I guess a Stark reunion of any kind is too good to be true.) In any case, I fear that Brienne may not be received as warmly by Arya as she might like.


Spoiler:
Arya has no damn clue Sansa is in the Eyrie. She and the Hound probably didn't even step foot into the castle. Proof?? Sansa is still alive. Sansa would be dead if Arya were coming closer :wink: :wink: . I have a feeling that Arya will never meet another family member alive ever again. The guards btw, think that Sansa is the niece of Littlefinger. Only Littlefinger and about 4 top-politicians know that Sansa is actually a stark, and they all promised to keep the secret safe.

As for who is roaming the countryside... Gendry, the Brotherhood without Banners, Stannis Baratheon, Faceless Assassin, the Water Dancer's killer (Meryn Trant), and Arya's dire wolf Nymeria are also around. There's no guarantee that Arya will meet anyone we expect. A ton of men from King's landing are tracking the Hound. With regard to Brienne, she may face one of these challengers along her path to the Eyrie. The Hound has a huge bounty on his head, so everyone is after him.


Speculation with a major book spoiler that someone told me. (I haven't read the book, but an asshole friend dropped a bomb on me):

Spoiler:
If Arya meets with "Stoneheart", that counts as meeting a family member as undead. Not alive. :wink:


With regards to the above book spoiler, Lena Headey (actress for Cersei Lannister) posted the following "cryptic" picture in her instagram.

Spoiler:
Image

Considering its meaning to the book, I think we can expect Stoneheart to appear in this episode 10.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:04 pm UTC

Is Gendry still alive? Last time he was seen, he was in a little rowing boat, and that was ages ago. I've pretty much been assuming he was lost at sea.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:08 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Is Gendry still alive? Last time he was seen, he was in a little rowing boat, and that was ages ago. I've pretty much been assuming he was lost at sea.


Spoiler:
The Onion Knight was a master smuggler and knew where Gendry should go.


Book Knowledge
Spoiler:
My understanding is that Gendry's subplot with Stannis is somewhat non-cannon. Stannis / Red Priestess found another bastard survivor and used his blood.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby ArgonV » Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:53 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:Is Gendry still alive? Last time he was seen, he was in a little rowing boat, and that was ages ago. I've pretty much been assuming he was lost at sea.


Spoiler:
The Onion Knight was a master smuggler and knew where Gendry should go.


Book Knowledge
Spoiler:
My understanding is that Gendry's subplot with Stannis is somewhat non-cannon. Stannis / Red Priestess found another bastard survivor and used his blood.

Spoiler:
They've also got Stannis' daughter, at least I expect that is what that entire scene with Melissandra and Selyse looking in the flames, talking about Shireen was about

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:26 pm UTC

Minor backstory in books, though not mentioned in show. Speculation.
Spoiler:
The Baratheons' paternal grandmother is a Targaryen; Robert Baratheon and Danaerys Targaryen are second cousins. It may not be "royal" blood but dragon blood, which the Targaryens have an affinity to. Magic in general, and possibly the fire god (if he actually exists and is not just a fake religion that got added to magic), is supposedly intertwined with that of dragons.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:37 pm UTC

That wasn't mentioned in the show, but it was mentioned in one of the bluray extras I believe.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:27 am UTC

Jesus, that was a crapton of deviations from the book. What the hell, Jojen.

Re: Green Seer

Spoiler:
What a fucking disappointment. In the books the Greenseer is described as having red eyes and longass hair reaching the ground, while being sort of fuse to the tree. People had even theorized he was a Targaryen.

In the series he's just a run of the mill old man sitting in a chair of roots. They really messed up the supernatural aspect of the greenseer, and those spell effects in the fight were lame.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adacore » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:57 am UTC

How long is the episode? I'm watching it tonight, but I'm seeing conflicting reports as to whether it's 66 minutes, 76 minutes or 116 minutes (that was from GRRM's blog, but seems unlikely).

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:04 am UTC

66 minutes
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Zcorp » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:47 am UTC

Season 4 finale spoilers
Spoiler:
So...huge and seemingly pointless divergence from the books, maybe just to prepare us for more of that next season. Ignoring all of those...The fight between the Hound and Brienne was shot so terribly that it hurt my head to watch it. Just, just...bad.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lazar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:11 am UTC

Show spoilers:
Spoiler:
STANNIS

Spoiler:
THE MANNIS!!!

Spoiler:
Seriously though. All this squabbling over the Iron Throne, and Stannis is the only claimant who cares enough about Westeros to actually save it from a Wildling invasion. If anyone was doubting the legitimacy of his claim, he proved it right there. Seeing those cavalry formations pour out of the forest to the tune of his leitmotif gave me chills. With him being in Westeros and meeting Jon Snow (who doesn't hesitate to acknowledge him as the rightful king, natch), there's a tremendously satisfying sense of disparate worlds colliding, of things finally coming together. Somebody should tell Dany.

Speaking of whom, wow, she's being so mean to those poor dragons. Punishing the ones that didn't do anything wrong, chaining them up in some windowless cellar? Not cool. And more and more we're seeing the fruits of her hopelessly naive approach to governance. There's more to being a ruler than just killing everyone you don't like and giving yourself a new title every week! Ser Barristan should definitely be having second thoughts by now.

In King's Landing, I'm not surprised that Tyrion escapes, but I am surprised that it's Tywin that dies, rather than Jaime. (Maybe I shouldn't be – I was spoiled on the fact that Tywin dies, but I didn't know when.) It's good that we get more of Jaime, but Charles Dance is one of my favorite actors on the show, so that's a shame. Also, wow, Tyrion is a stone cold killer.

Speaking of which, surprisingly high death count in this episode. Jojen, Shae, Tywin, probably the Hound… I was kinda just expecting one. Although we can't be sure about Sandor – it's well known that death isn't final until you see it on screen. And apparently the Mountain is still alive? And that rogue maester dude is gonna turn him into a Frankenstein's monster perhaps? Guy's like the Dr. Krieger of Westeros.

Also, CHILDREN OF THE FOREST!!! WOO!!! We finally know they're still around.

Also, Arya? So awesome. I love how she completely ignores everything that Brienne and Sandor tell her to do. And we finally get to see her use that Chekhov's coin! I can't wait to see what happens with her.

I do feel sorry for Brienne, though. And for the Hound, too, although he had it coming.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:23 pm UTC

May or may not be a book spoiler. Missing from the show.
Spoiler:
What happened to Tysha? Jaime was supposed to reveal that Tysha really WAS married to Tyrion, and Tywin saying she went "wherever whores go" was what causes Tyrion to flip out and kill his father.

Also, is Lady Stoneheart going to make an appearance at all? Not sure how important she is to the plot. Doesn't look like Coldhands is going to be in the show either.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lazar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:52 pm UTC

I'm not clicking on your spoiler, but I gather that a lot of book readers are disturbed about some huge amazing thing from ASoS that didn't get included. It's nothing to me, though, because I haven't read that far.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Yakk » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:26 pm UTC

Non-reader episode 10 speculation:
Lazar wrote:
Spoiler:
[...]

Regarding the Wall, I suppose what will happen is that Jon Snow will work out some sort of agreement with Mance whereby they'll cooperate against the White Walker threat. (I greatly doubt that we're going to see any more combat on the Wall itself – I mean, they couldn't top what they did in the last episode.) But at the same time, I expect that it won't turn out as I expect, because that seems too simplistic. Jon Snow's departure from the gate and fade to white do seem to portend exciting things. But I think Jon Snow has plot armor for some time to come: we still have to resolve the mystery of his parentage, and I strongly suspect (based on no evidence at all) that some interaction between him and Dany will play a part in the conclusion of the series. I mean, he brings the Ice and she brings the Fire, right? Unless the Walkers bring the ice, in which case he just brings glumness and amazing hair.

Regarding Tyrion, I think his plot armor is severely dented but still holding. Call me naive, but on an intuitive level I don't see him dying. Even this show is not free from convention, and the way things were set up ("I sentence you to death!" – cut to Tyrion looking shocked! – end episode! – wait two weeks to find out!) just screams to me that the sentence isn't going to be carried out. On the other hand, I think some blood will be shed in King's Landing. I recently heard a stimulating piece of speculation from a fellow non-reader: maybe Jaime will intentionally get himself killed while saving Tyrion. At that point, Tywin – who values House Lannister over everything – couldn't kill off his one remaining son no matter how much he wanted to. Honestly, based on Jaime's character arc this season, his death feels more plausible to me than Tyrion's. His growing sense of moral conflict and alienation from the family seem to me like harbingers of tragedy, similar to the way in which Ygritte was torn between her people and Jon Snow. And what an awesome death scene he could have! But for gods' sake, if you've read the books, don't give me even the slightest hint of whether or not this is what happens. (What seems almost 100% certain to me is that some major character will die.)
[...]

So anyway, I'm anxious to see how they fit so much stuff into one episode. What's encouraging is that the finale is the one episode from this season that they're submitting for the writing Emmy. So it has to be good, right? D&D are saying it's the best finale yet, although you'd hardly expect them not to say that.

Reader response:
Spoiler:
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ha ha ha heh heh heh

that is all.

No book spoiler discussion of episode 10:
Spoiler:
Father's Day episode! How many father-child relationships did you spot?

Stannis (Treated Snow as a pseudo-son, Daughter, Onion Knight), Mance (Snow), Tywin (Daughter, Son, Son, Legacy), Hound (Arya), Faceless (Arya), Tutor (children).

I don't think there was a single piece of this episode that didn't revolve a father-child type relationship.

Awesome.
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Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:42 pm UTC

Zcorp wrote:Season 4 finale spoilers
Spoiler:
So...huge and seemingly pointless divergence from the books, maybe just to prepare us for more of that next season. Ignoring all of those...The fight between the Hound and Brienne was shot so terribly that it hurt my head to watch it. Just, just...bad.


Spoiler:
What? I thought it was one of the few proper long-sword fights I've ever seen. Fucking spacing. They were actually spaced at the proper distance for a good bit of it. Longswords have a nasty habit of slipping into the other person's flesh in nasty ways.

I'm not a master of Longsword (hell, I'm not even master at one weapon!), but I felt like this fight was more real than many previous ones.

There was a bit of arrogance as both characters strike each other one-handed... expecting the other character to be a pushover. Very quickly, they are overpowered with only one hand, and they switch to Zweihander techniques. Both characters become impressed by each other's skill, and then refuse to take decisive action (ie: Closing the distance). Any true lockup becomes resolved with hand-to-hand combat, and any punch or kick is immediately reacted with getting out of the danger-zone. (approximately 1 or 2 steps away from the opponent, where sword strikes are strongest)
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Vahir » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:47 pm UTC

The fight scene was good, but it took so much time that they had to rush the ending and cut out the

Spoiler:
Tysha
revelation.

And is anyone else pissed off about how they handled Jaime this season? He was supposed to be becoming his own man, stop being manipulated by his sister, realize how horrible his family his, ect. But instead he's exactly where he started out at the beginning. I'm outraged.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:50 pm UTC

I don't recall that really starting until after...y'know...the father's day events of that last episode.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Yakk » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:44 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:I don't recall that really starting until after...y'know...the father's day events of that last episode.

Book difference from last episode:
Spoiler:
The revelation in question happened during the escape, and it was the reason why Tyrion left Jaime and found his way into the hand of the king's quarters. So if they are going to do it, they have moved when it happened.

As they also moved when the hound was left for dead by Arya, and a number of other scenes, that isn't surprising.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:05 pm UTC

Sorry, I was referring to his comments about Jaime not acting like expected, not the comments about the
Spoiler:
Tysha
revelation.
Last edited by Spambot5546 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Zcorp » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:27 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:What? I thought it was one of the few proper long-sword fights I've ever seen. Fucking spacing.

The fight choreography was good. The shooting was terrible. The cuts, the close ups, the obvious cuts to doubles, shaky cam...terrible. They don't stay on a single shot for more than half a second for the vast majority of the fight, ugh painful to watch.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby ArgonV » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:32 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:No book spoiler discussion of episode 10:
Spoiler:
Father's Day episode! How many father-child relationships did you spot?

Stannis (Treated Snow as a pseudo-son, Daughter, Onion Knight), Mance (Snow), Tywin (Daughter, Son, Son, Legacy), Hound (Arya), Faceless (Arya), Tutor (children).

I don't think there was a single piece of this episode that didn't revolve a father-child type relationship.

Awesome.

Spoiler:
Father with the girl burnt to a crisp by dragons...

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:57 pm UTC

Edit: Ty spambot

Book/show spoiler
Spoiler:
Yeah we needed that Tysha revelation. I mean, that's what flips Tyrion out enough to kill his father. As it was, just calling Shae a whore shouldn't be enough especially after she revealed herself to BE just a whore. At least in the books, that's all she really was, just using Tyrion for his money. In the show she really did love Tyrion until he more or less humiliated her.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adacore » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:01 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Edit: Ty spambot

Book/show spoiler
Spoiler:
Yeah we needed that Tysha revelation. I mean, that's what flips Tyrion out enough to kill his father. As it was, just calling Shae a whore shouldn't be enough especially after she revealed herself to BE just a whore. At least in the books, that's all she really was, just using Tyrion for his money. In the show she really did love Tyrion until he more or less humiliated her.

Continued book/show spoiler:
Spoiler:
Did we even have the setup for the Tysha thing? I don't remember if Tyrion ever had a scene where he told the story of how he met her, married her, and was then told/shown by his father that she was a whore. I think the show tried to make the Shae-Tyrion relationship involved/committed enough, by developing it far more than in the books, that it prompted enough outrage without needing the tale of Tyrion's past. It also wasn't stressed anywhere near as much in the show how hypocritical Tywin was in his attitude to Tyrion taking whores. I disagree with the decision, but I can see the logic in it.

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Vahir
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Vahir » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:10 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Edit: Ty spambot

Book/show spoiler
Spoiler:
Yeah we needed that Tysha revelation. I mean, that's what flips Tyrion out enough to kill his father. As it was, just calling Shae a whore shouldn't be enough especially after she revealed herself to BE just a whore. At least in the books, that's all she really was, just using Tyrion for his money. In the show she really did love Tyrion until he more or less humiliated her.

Continued book/show spoiler:
Spoiler:
Did we even have the setup for the Tysha thing? I don't remember if Tyrion ever had a scene where he told the story of how he met her, married her, and was then told/shown by his father that she was a whore. I think the show tried to make the Shae-Tyrion relationship involved/committed enough, by developing it far more than in the books, that it prompted enough outrage without needing the tale of Tyrion's past. It also wasn't stressed anywhere near as much in the show how hypocritical Tywin was in his attitude to Tyrion taking whores. I disagree with the decision, but I can see the logic in it.


Spoiler:
It was revealed way back at the end of season 1. Tyrion tells the story to Shae and Bronn, I believe.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adam H » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:48 pm UTC

I don't care what anyone says, that episode was excellent.

Show spoilers only:
Spoiler:
Brienne meeting Arya was a great addition. I loved everything about that scene. Brienne and Arya bonding was delightful and the fight scene was absolutely vicious. And Arya staring down the Hound as he begged for mercy was just as beautiful as I had hoped. :cry:

They totally pulled off Tyrion killing Tywin. The motivations were different than in the book, but really not that much. They sort of just combined the Tysha character with Shae. In Tyrion's fragile state of mind, he probably blamed Tywin for turning Shae into a whore since in his mind he and Shae truly loved each other until Tywin got his hands on her. Also, if Tywin hadn't just been boning her then Shae would still be alive, so Tyrion could blame Tywin for Shae's death. So Tyrion is mad at Tywin essentially for turning his non-whore lover into a whore and then killing her.

As usual, I thought the acting, directing, and score more than made up for the plot not being as in-depth as the books.
-Adam

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Lazar » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:07 am UTC

Bookish question from non-reader:

Spoiler:
A concern I've heard is that Book Tyrion finishes ASoS angry at Jaime for his part in the Tysha thing (and as a result, falsely confesses to killing Joffrey), and that the show has changed both characters' development and motivation by having Tyrion leave on good terms. Without getting into specifics, do y'all book readers think that this will pose a storytelling problem?
Exit the vampires' castle.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Vahir » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:35 am UTC

Lazar wrote:Bookish question from non-reader:

Spoiler:
A concern I've heard is that Book Tyrion finishes ASoS angry at Jaime for his part in the Tysha thing (and as a result, falsely confesses to killing Joffrey), and that the show has changed both characters' development and motivation by having Tyrion leave on good terms. Without getting into specifics, do y'all book readers think that this will pose a storytelling problem?


It doesn't so much present a narrative problem as it does derail his character developement. Because

Spoiler:
after that revelation, he's supposed to hate everyone and everything, including and especially his family. Maybe it doesn't matter that Jaime and Tyrion are still bros after this, but the again maybe later on in the series Tyrion will enact vengeance on his family, and it would seem completely random if he hates on Jaime.

It's kind of the same problem as Jaime, actually. This doesn't conflict with his narrative path necessarily, but its messing with characterization.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adam H » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:28 am UTC

Lazar wrote:Bookish question from non-reader:

Spoiler:
A concern I've heard is that Book Tyrion finishes ASoS angry at Jaime for his part in the Tysha thing (and as a result, falsely confesses to killing Joffrey), and that the show has changed both characters' development and motivation by having Tyrion leave on good terms. Without getting into specifics, do y'all book readers think that this will pose a storytelling problem?
Show spoilers only:
Spoiler:
Even without all the details from the books, Jaime and Tyrion's relationship will certainly be... strained... no?


Book comparison (no major spoilers):
Spoiler:
Vahir wrote:after that revelation, he's supposed to hate everyone and everything, including and especially his family. Maybe it doesn't matter that Jaime and Tyrion are still bros after this, but the again maybe later on in the series Tyrion will enact vengeance on his family, and it would seem completely random if he hates on Jaime.
I disagree, I never got the impression that Tyrion hates everyone and everything; I don't think he hates Jaime at all, and he hates himself more than anyone.
-Adam

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diemo » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:09 am UTC

I dunno, I think that it changes Tyrion's character quite a lot

Book spoilers
Spoiler:
In the book, I got the feeling that he turned away from his family because of what Tywin did to Tysha. Before he learned that he was still very loyal to being a Lannister, despite recognising how crappy the vast majority of the Lannisters were. And given that they had spent a good while establishing that story, I don't understand why they didn't follow through with the rest of the story.

I never got the feeling that Tyrion hated Jaime though. Hated himself I could see, but I thought that Jaime was the one Lannister who he loved (what with Jaime not treating him like crap and all that).
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:23 pm UTC

Umm... the Lannisters aren't all that crappy. It's only Joffrey, Tywin, and Cersei. The rest are actually OK. Part of the point of the book/show is that there are no truly good guys or truly bad guys, and the average peasant really wouldn't be better off if Robb Stark's men raped their wives and stolen their crops over a blood feud that they had no stake in. Arya's story has been cut short, but most of her arc was about how the biggest victims of the War of the Five Kings are the poorest. That's why I like Petyr Baelish; every noble is a dick that does more harm than good to their own serfs and is a power hungry monster, but only Petyr admits to himself that that's what he is.

Sure, some of the characters are nothing more than monsters, such as Gregor Clegane and Ramsay Snow, but that sort of thing really did happen. I'd argue that all the Greyjoys should've been executed when the rest of the nobles had the chance; "we do not sow" means "we are nothing more than parasites".

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby ArgonV » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:00 pm UTC

Two show-only questions
Spoiler:
The fireballs thrown by the child of the forest were the most blatant use of magic seen so far, right? We don't really know why the dragon eggs hatched (probable blood magic though), white walker aren't explained either (but probable ice/dark magic), Jaqen changing face might be some form of charm, Mel admits most of her magic are actually illusions and she needs other people or kingsblood to pull the rest of and wildfire is just magic-assisted chemistry, I think

I'm a bit perplexed why Dany cares so much for them and considers them her children. Is it just because everyone calls her mother of dragons? Is there any proof the dragons have more than animal intelligence? Jon and Robb weren't crying when the direwolves had to be locked up for everyone's safety and dragons are far more dangerous

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Adam H
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adam H » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:28 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:Two show-only questions
Spoiler:
The fireballs thrown by the child of the forest were the most blatant use of magic seen so far, right? We don't really know why the dragon eggs hatched (probable blood magic though), white walker aren't explained either (but probable ice/dark magic), Jaqen changing face might be some form of charm, Mel admits most of her magic are actually illusions and she needs other people or kingsblood to pull the rest of and wildfire is just magic-assisted chemistry, I think

I'm a bit perplexed why Dany cares so much for them and considers them her children. Is it just because everyone calls her mother of dragons? Is there any proof the dragons have more than animal intelligence? Jon and Robb weren't crying when the direwolves had to be locked up for everyone's safety and dragons are far more dangerous
Show-only answers:
Spoiler:
Meh, it could have been something like magic-enhanced gunpowder, not too different from wildfire. IMO Thoros and Beric are the most blatantly magical things we've seen.

Some people care about their pets more than others. I'm a dog lover and that scene with the dragons almost had me crying along with her. Also, their dangerousness probably makes Dany love them even more, because she has to trust them not to kill her even while ordering them to kill other people.
-Adam

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby freezeblade » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:23 pm UTC

s04 finale spoiler
Spoiler:
I'm ok with the Breanne/hound meeting, even if it's not in the books. Great sword fight, one of the better ones we've seen in the series so far I think (most realistic). I always pictured saltpans being much bigger than 6 houses and a bunch of salt being shoveled around however.
Things I'm a tad upset about/wasn't included that maybe should have been (book spoilers/speculation)
Spoiler:
John not becoming lord commander (they'll probably include this next season)

The whole "where whores go" bit of dialogue, he repeats it so many times throughout DoD, strange it was omitted.

Seriously though, The season should have ended with Lady Stoneheart hanging Freys from trees. But that's just my not-so-humble opinion.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:47 pm UTC

I enjoyed seeing Tyrion channel Samuel L Jackson there.

Spoiler:
Say "whore" again. Say "whore" again, I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say "whore" one more goddamn time!
Image
What would Baron Harkonnen do?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby freezeblade » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:08 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I enjoyed seeing Tyrion channel Samuel L Jackson there.

Spoiler:
Say "whore" again. Say "whore" again, I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say "whore" one more goddamn time!


You just made me do a spit take with my tea. curse you!
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