Stairgate: Universe

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:35 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
phlip wrote:It's definitely a positional thing, not a directional thing... note that the address of, say, Earth, is the same no matter which gate you're dialling from.

Except we get contradictions of that. The first few SG:1 seasons were driven by the concept of using the Abydos cartocuhe's addresses to visit new planets. Except, the constellations had drifted over time, and to account for that it took time to calculate the new addresses for the same planets. I think there is a throwaway line that calculations will produce one legitimate address every two weeks. Very convenient for episodic formatting.

So, yeah, with constellations drifting, earth's address should be different from each other gate. But, then, each new interplanetary population encountered should speak different languages, and definitely shouldn't speak English, so yeah.


This was explained because the Earth gate didn't have a DHD, which automatically updates the addresses to account for drift.

Basically, the dialed address is like a URL, and the DHD is like the DNS server, the SGC had a list of URLs, but their DNS data was out of date so the IPs connected to those URLs were all invalid.

This could also explain the reason for the difference between the Movie version of how the gates worked and the show version. The gate symbols could have originally been used as navigational symbols (constellations). But over time, it's more convenient to have static addresses than navigationaly useful ones, so the DHD system probably came about as a usability overlay to the old navigational system.
Since the Earth gate didn't have a DHD, they were stuck using the underlying navigational protocols until they found a DHD
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Turtlewing » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:54 pm UTC

I was under the impression that the connection worked between earth an Abydos because they were comparatively close to one another, and therefore the magnitude of the drift was small enough that a connection could still be made with the outdated coordinates.

As to having to be close to a planet in order to make a connection, I think they established in SG1 that you need to be able to enter a valid point of oragin (Danial escapes from Apophis' ship in Earth orbit by stargate using Earth as the point of oragin). So in practice you need to either be near enough to a planet with a symbol on your DHD or you need to have the ability to recalibrate your DHD to accept your actuall coordinates. The later being possible for the SGC because they use their own McGuivered dialing program and can do whatever reckless thing they want with it, and for Atlantis because the system in the Atlantis controle room has developer tools not just the standard user package included in the standard DHDs (it was after all ment to be staffed by the people who built the darn things).

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:58 pm UTC

Turtlewing wrote:I was under the impression that the connection worked between earth an Abydos because they were comparatively close to one another, and therefore the magnitude of the drift was small enough that a connection could still be made with the outdated coordinates.


Which doesn't make any sense when you remember that in the movie, Abydos was in a galaxy on the other side of the universe.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Xeio » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:42 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Turtlewing wrote:I was under the impression that the connection worked between earth an Abydos because they were comparatively close to one another, and therefore the magnitude of the drift was small enough that a connection could still be made with the outdated coordinates.
Which doesn't make any sense when you remember that in the movie, Abydos was in a galaxy on the other side of the universe.
Which makes doubly less sense when later in the series they need an 8th symbol to get to a different galaxy.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby mikhail » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:02 pm UTC

I've caught a couple of episodes of SGU, and it's piqued my interest. I saw the second episode (or the third, I forget) which was okay, but Time was a well written science fiction story, something lacking in most science fiction on TV and film today (I liked the Star Trek 'reboot', it was fun, but why can't anyone do anything clever any more?). Have I been misled by my small sample, or is it worth picking up the series on DVD eventually?

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:04 pm UTC

Abydos in the Movie was in another galaxy, but in the show was actually relatively close to Earth. that's basically a retcon, with no explanation, analyzing it too much can only lead to traumatic brain 'sploisons

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:26 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:This was explained because the Earth gate didn't have a DHD, which automatically updates the addresses to account for drift.

Basically, the dialed address is like a URL, and the DHD is like the DNS server, the SGC had a list of URLs, but their DNS data was out of date so the IPs connected to those URLs were all invalid.

Oh yeah, good point. Forgot about that.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:04 am UTC

I suspect the ninth symbol is to designate Destiny's "floating" location in the galaxy specified by the first eight symbols rather than another distance multiplier.
One other thing bugged me for a while before I figured it out. There are only 39 symbols on a gate which isn't enough to provide a point of origin symbol for every planet. Then I realized that each gate must have a single symbol on it that is different from the ones on every other gate.
I suspect that the ancients intended for primitive societies to be able to use the gates. Otherwise why make them simple enough for a five year old to use?

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby phlip » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:15 am UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:Then I realized that each gate must have a single symbol on it that is different from the ones on every other gate.

They do. But then on the other hand, there've been several instances of a gate being moved from one planet to another, and then using the point-of-origin symbol for the new planet, even though it'd presumably not be on the gate.

Like I said: noone ever accused Stargate of having consistent technology...

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Jorpho » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:13 am UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:I suspect that the ancients intended for primitive societies to be able to use the gates. Otherwise why make them simple enough for a five year old to use?
On the other hand, there was that SG-1 episode with the super-genius criminal on the prison planet who managed to figure out cold fusion but couldn't figure out the right "permuatation" for a gate address.

On the other hand, I think the various groups in the Pegasus galaxy did use the gates for trading.

On the other other hand, Pegasus was full of those "space gates" that would kill any primitive tribesman instantly.

So yeah.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Xeio » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:33 am UTC

You know, maybe the writers know we hate Chloe, and are now making every episode one where she could be gone... and yet she isn't...

Spoiler:
Also, good riddens to the crazy dude.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Nath » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:57 pm UTC

I just saw last week's episode, "Divided".
Spoiler:
Damn, they hit the reset button pretty hard.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:38 pm UTC

Spoiler:
This show needs a population counter, like BSG, so we can make more reasonable estimates as to when the ship runs out of dumbasses.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:45 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I was rather surprised to hear Rush complaining that they might run out of people. Surely with fewer mouths to feed, and fewer people to bother him, the easier his life would be? Or is he just genre savvy enough to know he needs a decent supply of redshirts to get killed instead of him?
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:28 pm UTC

phlip wrote:They do. But then on the other hand, there've been several instances of a gate being moved from one planet to another, and then using the point-of-origin symbol for the new planet, even though it'd presumably not be on the gate.

Like I said: noone ever accused Stargate of having consistent technology...

Yeah, I thought of that. I assume they just input the new origin location into the DHD or perhaps it adjust itself automatically.

Jorpho wrote:On the other hand, there was that SG-1 episode with the super-genius criminal on the prison planet who managed to figure out cold fusion but couldn't figure out the right "permuatation" for a gate address.

On the other hand, I think the various groups in the Pegasus galaxy did use the gates for trading.

On the other other hand, Pegasus was full of those "space gates" that would kill any primitive tribesman instantly.

So yeah.


If you know a valid address it's as easy as using a phone. If you don't already know the six coordinate + origin system the gate uses you could dial random combos forever and not get a hit. Regarding the space gates, I guess the Ancients only left the coordinates for safe locations where they could be found and used.

Nath wrote:I just saw last week's episode, "Divided".
Spoiler:
Damn, they hit the reset button pretty hard.


Spoiler:
Yes they raped the reset button like a prison snitch.


SlyReaper wrote:
Spoiler:
I was rather surprised to hear Rush complaining that they might run out of people. Surely with fewer mouths to feed, and fewer people to bother him, the easier his life would be? Or is he just genre savvy enough to know he needs a decent supply of redshirts to get killed instead of him?


Spoiler:
Agreed. Most of the civillians didn't have any technical/survival/combat/medical experience or training and were essentially dead weight in any situation.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:28 pm UTC

Large crowds of people with differing opinions forming camps. Isolation from the rest of the world. Plenty of dummy characters that don't get a lot of screen-time. Now where have I seen that before?

This show is basically Lost, without the cliffhangers to keep you barely interested enough to follow the rest.

I fundamentally don't "get" SG:U. It has no sense of humor, the characters don't really compel me enough to give a damn if they die in a fire, there really doesn't happen all too much in any given episode besides people running around scheming and allegiances camps left and right and the odd power-struggle between various irrational mobs. After every episode, I have a moment of "why did I even watch this?"

But maybe it's just my allergy towards exaggeratedly irrational characters that's flaring up again.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:22 am UTC

I try to stop watching, but the show has enough potential that I keep watching on the slim chance that it might get good, and the rest of this crap is just "suspense". It paid off for Caprica, but I also watched Heroes for 4 years. I have no clue if this will be worth it or not.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:42 am UTC

Suspense implies that something will eventually actually happen.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Nath » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:52 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Large crowds of people with differing opinions forming camps. Isolation from the rest of the world. Plenty of dummy characters that don't get a lot of screen-time. Now where have I seen that before?

I recently saw SG-1's 200th episode, and they had a brief bit where they replaced all the characters with youngier, edgier versions. The resemblance to SG:U was uncanny.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

Yeah that was frikkin' hillarious. :lol:

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Chen » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:26 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:I fundamentally don't "get" SG:U. It has no sense of humor, the characters don't really compel me enough to give a damn if they die in a fire, there really doesn't happen all too much in any given episode besides people running around scheming and allegiances camps left and right and the odd power-struggle between various irrational mobs. After every episode, I have a moment of "why did I even watch this?"


This basically sums up the show for me and my GF too. Didn't bother watching this week's one yet for this exact reason. The show is more annoying than anything else. Yet I'm sure I'll keep watching it eventually. I mean I still watch Heroes...but then again its gotten so bad its kind of entertaining to watch just so I can pull it apart with my friends later. This one hasn't gotten that bad yet its just...well bad.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby mosc » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:31 pm UTC

RDA always was so adamant that they not take themselves too seriously, even if writing how the world was going to end 2 seconds later. It was really the strength of SG1. It was light, not pertentious. Atlantis seemed to at least include strong elements of that even if it also had a darker villain and more "Oh me yarm THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!". It was a decent balance. SGU though, like you said, is just pure dark and no fun.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:35 pm UTC

mosc wrote:SGU though, like you said, is just pure dark and no fun.

Truth, but dark done like the same people who did Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. That is, to paraphrase Yahtzee, they went in to the sudio and shot everyone who looked happy.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Jorpho » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:47 pm UTC

mosc wrote:RDA always was so adamant that they not take themselves too seriously, even if writing how the world was going to end 2 seconds later. It was really the strength of SG1.
I had no idea there was such a specific driving force at work there.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:50 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
mosc wrote:RDA always was so adamant that they not take themselves too seriously, even if writing how the world was going to end 2 seconds later. It was really the strength of SG1.
I had no idea there was such a specific driving force at work there.


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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Xeio » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:56 pm UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:That reminds me of my favorite description of Jack: "Someone who will laugh in the faces of his enemies even when it's inappropriate."
Yup, that was from 200. :mrgreen:

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Zorlin » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:09 am UTC

...

Am I a bad person?

I watched episode 13, got to the part where they barked at the military personnel and made them come back, and I honestly hoped that a certain whiny girl would have stayed on the planet.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Soralin » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:32 am UTC

No, everyone else was thinking the same thing.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Jorpho » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:16 am UTC

But then there would be no more sexytimes for Scott, and I daresay the show may need every selling point it can get.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:21 am UTC

I wonder if the writers realise that everyone hates Chloe? I hope in the next season they either make her completely badass (killing Scott in the most gruesome possible fashion would be a good way to do it), or dispose of her. In the most gruesome possible fashion.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby mosc » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:21 pm UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
mosc wrote:RDA always was so adamant that they not take themselves too seriously, even if writing how the world was going to end 2 seconds later. It was really the strength of SG1.
I had no idea there was such a specific driving force at work there.


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That reminds me of my favorite description of Jack: "Someone who will laugh in the faces of his enemies even when it's inappropriate."
He was an executive producer and had a few other hats as well.
SlyReaper wrote:I wonder if the writers realise that everyone hates Chloe? I hope in the next season they either make her completely badass (killing Scott in the most gruesome possible fashion would be a good way to do it), or dispose of her. In the most gruesome possible fashion.

Writers love that shit. Somebody they can use to "relate" to. Somebody more normal. They love normal people saying shit like "you can't leave yet, that's Jonny down there!"
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:04 am UTC

Except that this show seems to equate normal with being a whiny little bitch or a dipshit. (except for Eli and even he has a slight dur moment here and there) Hell, the military people aren't a whole lot better. Killing Scott wouldn't toughen Chloe, she's just not made that way. It would turn her into a cold bitch.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Nath » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:42 am UTC

Sockmonkey wrote:Except that this show seems to equate normal with being a whiny little bitch or a dipshit. (except for Eli and even he has a slight dur moment here and there)

Many of the civilian characters are whiny and unlikable, but that's actually an interesting piece of writing, if it's intentional. See, the main thing they whine about is that the military personnel on Destiny are dangerous and incompetent -- and several of them genuinely are, including Young. Making the civilians unsympathetic but largely right gives the viewer an interesting dilemma.

(Though the fact that Young was intended to be "like the Jack O'Neill of ten years ago" suggests that perhaps they didn't intend for his character to turn out the way it did.)

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:53 am UTC

I know, but that just brings us right back around to how the hell such loose cannons got assigned to an elite organization like the stargate program.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:37 am UTC

Icarus Base was probably the Stargate equivalent of an Alaskan listening outpost, someplace to send fuck-ups and undesirables where they can stay out of everyone's way without having to fire them and risk whatever secrets they may know getting out to the public.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:25 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:Icarus Base was probably the Stargate equivalent of an Alaskan listening outpost, someplace to send fuck-ups and undesirables where they can stay out of everyone's way without having to fire them and risk whatever secrets they may know getting out to the public.

That would explain just about everything.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Jorpho » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:44 pm UTC

Indeed, it makes a lot of sense. It even explains why they sent the Senator out there.

Perhaps they are saving that little revelation for the season finale.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby sgchr » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

mikhail wrote:I've caught a couple of episodes of SGU, and it's piqued my interest. I saw the second episode (or the third, I forget) which was okay, but Time was a well written science fiction story, something lacking in most science fiction on TV and film today (I liked the Star Trek 'reboot', it was fun, but why can't anyone do anything clever any more?). Have I been misled by my small sample, or is it worth picking up the series on DVD eventually?

Well, my guess is that they try to attract a larger audience by keeping the show simpler than it's predecessor.
Hence the overwhelming love scenes in the movie... Which I like. :mrgreen:
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby Sockmonkey » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:Indeed, it makes a lot of sense. It even explains why they sent the Senator out there.

Perhaps they are saving that little revelation for the season finale.

Wait, it makes sense to send a senator to a planet at the ass-end of space? They don't go to Alaskan listening posts. Does this mean he was some sort of fuck-up as well? I don't get it.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:20 pm UTC

I'm probably just making memories up in my head, but for some reason I thought Icarus Base wasn't meant as an Alpha site or possibly a candidate for one. Maybe I'll check Hulu later to see if the first episode is still available there.
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