xkcd

by **phlip** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:04 am UTC

... That was an interesting spoiler to read before seeing the episode.

And now for the weekly task of trying to remember not to open this thread until being able to watch the ep...

by **Yubtzock** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:59 am UTC

Zorlin wrote:Wait, what the fuck?
Spoiler:
The thing let them go, and then they killed and ate its children as they left? Asshats.

Not exactly.

Spoiler:

Also: Rush is a dick. I would have already had thrown him through the writer's airlock long ago and either put him on a bus or sent him back to Earth for hilarity sake.

by **Jorpho** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:29 am UTC

I was just thinking that the show was finally halfway-decent, but

Spoiler:

Also, you just know they're going to ruin all the goodwill with a nice ten-minute montage come the finale.

by **Jorpho** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:47 am UTC

Dayum! I was not expecting that. Of course you know in the end it will turn out

Spoiler:

by **Zorlin** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:19 am UTC

@Jorpho: pretty much, yeah.

by **The Boz** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:18 am UTC

OK, the last two episodes... make no sense...
About a hundred people with a few guns, knives and rations, get stranded on a planet with rich green forests. Excellent. How the hell do they manage to spawn a civilisation that is numbering in the billions in just two thousand years? I know that numerically it can make sense, but when you consider their low number, low tech level, genetic diseases, inbreeding, etc., one would think that they would, at best, become extinct within a few hundred years...
Can't say I know much about genetics, but I don't think a hundred people is all you need to start a civilization without everyone being a sniveling retard within a dozen generations.

by **Jorpho** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:20 am UTC

Well... Maybe they were able to work the kinks out of genetic engineering in time? (That's the solution employed in Baxter's The Time Ships, anyway.)

I was thinking that somewhere along the way someone in the Stargate program must have anticipated that people could potentially become stranded, such that everyone in the program might have been obliged to take a simple course in rudimentary colony planning, or something.

I was also wondering if they were going to do something big to blow whatever might have remained of the series budget (remember how Stargate Atlantis semi-randomly licensed some Stones music?); clearly their solution was to get some old-age makeup.

by **SlyReaper** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:00 am UTC

I think I heard you can sustain a viable population with a seed of just 30 non-related individuals. I can't cite that because I don't remember where I heard it, but I think 100 is enough. As for technology, they started off with some decent knowledge, which would have given them a huge headstart over a species just starting out. And I think they said the population on Novis was in the millions, not billions. That's perfectly doable. Even assuming a population doubling time of 100 years (a pessimistic number), and a start of 100 individuals, there would be 100*(2^20) = 104,857,600 (over a hundred million) individuals 2000 years later.

Why didn't they use Destiny's gate to find the world the Novians had fled to? Surely easier than flying there?

by **phlip** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:11 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Why didn't they use Destiny's gate to find the world the Novians had fled to? Surely easier than flying there?

I haven't seen the latest episode yet, so maybe they've dealt with this already, but there was that whole using-the-gate-attracts-the-drones thing in the previous ep...

by **SlyReaper** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:28 am UTC

Oh right, I forgot that...

by **ArgonV** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:46 am UTC

And the gate was 10 days hyperspace travel ahead. Since they're always talking about gates being in range, maybe Destiny can't gate that far?

by **SlyReaper** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:51 am UTC

ArgonV wrote:And the gate was 10 days hyperspace travel ahead. Since they're always talking about gates being in range, maybe Destiny can't gate that far?

If the planet's gate could reach it, Destiny's gate could reach it.

by **ArgonV** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:41 am UTC

You've got a point there

by **The Boz** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:23 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I think I heard you can sustain a viable population with a seed of just 30 non-related individuals. I can't cite that because I don't remember where I heard it, but I think 100 is enough. As for technology, they started off with some decent knowledge, which would have given them a huge headstart over a species just starting out. And I think they said the population on Novis was in the millions, not billions. That's perfectly doable. Even assuming a population doubling time of 100 years (a pessimistic number), and a start of 100 individuals, there would be 100*(2^20) = 104,857,600 (over a hundred million) individuals 2000 years later.

Why didn't they use Destiny's gate to find the world the Novians had fled to? Surely easier than flying there?

If 30 individuals is enough, then it makes sense... You'd only really need one of the surviving crew trained in the art of population planning to make sure nothing bad happens..
I know it can make sense from a purely mathematical standpoint, even if you take into account that there were at least two lesbians and Brody, and they didn't procreate. :p

by **ArgonV** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:37 am UTC

The Boz wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I think I heard you can sustain a viable population with a seed of just 30 non-related individuals. I can't cite that because I don't remember where I heard it, but I think 100 is enough. As for technology, they started off with some decent knowledge, which would have given them a huge headstart over a species just starting out. And I think they said the population on Novis was in the millions, not billions. That's perfectly doable. Even assuming a population doubling time of 100 years (a pessimistic number), and a start of 100 individuals, there would be 100*(2^20) = 104,857,600 (over a hundred million) individuals 2000 years later.

Why didn't they use Destiny's gate to find the world the Novians had fled to? Surely easier than flying there?

If 30 individuals is enough, then it makes sense... You'd only really need one of the surviving crew trained in the art of population planning to make sure nothing bad happens..
I know it can make sense from a purely mathematical standpoint, even if you take into account that there were at least two lesbians and Brody, and they didn't procreate. :p

Sure that the lesbians didn't procreate? I somewhat assumed Ya Zu (or what's his name) was Camille's descendant. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the lesbians in the group took one for the team in order to maximize genetic diversity.

by **The Boz** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:51 am UTC

Even though that was a joke, I love how you question the lesbians not procreating, but not Brody :p
Get off my lawn!

by **phlip** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:53 am UTC

Another interesting data point from this episode: Apparently 2000 years is about how long it takes us to forget about the idea of remote computer access... or even just the ability to start a transfer going and then leave it unattended to finish. Apparently no-one involved in designing that system has ever wanted to watch some particularly high-res porn and had to leave it downloading overnight, or anything.

I mean, it wouldn't've let them download any more once the power went out, but at least they'd be out of the bunker long before it started collapsing on them.

by **SlyReaper** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:56 am UTC

Also, terrible bad luck on the timing. That bunker had been intact for the 30 or so years since it was abandonned. But as soon as the crew of the Destiny turn up, the earthquakes suddenly decide to grow strong enough to destroy it and the city. If they'd got there like 2 days earlier, TJ would have her cure.

by **The Boz** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:59 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Also, terrible bad luck on the timing. That bunker had been intact for the 30 or so years since it was abandonned. But as soon as the crew of the Destiny turn up, the earthquakes suddenly decide to grow strong enough to destroy it and the city. If they'd got there like 2 days earlier, TJ would have her cure.

Let's just chalk that up to subspace distortions caused by a large ship jumping into the system from hyperspace. The arrival caused equal and opposite gravimetric forces that induced a shearing effect on the planet and bla bla bla bla bla space time bla bla.

by **phlip** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:02 am UTC

They could use the same excuse they've used before... when they arrived on Destiny, when they arrived at Atlantis... they turned the power on. They mentioned solar, wind and geothermal energy... solar would be all but dead with all the ash in the air, and it looked pretty calm, so pretty much all the energy would be geothermal. Maybe the geothermal plants powering up somehow triggered the earthquakes?

by **Jorpho** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:26 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
ArgonV wrote:And the gate was 10 days hyperspace travel ahead. Since they're always talking about gates being in range, maybe Destiny can't gate that far?

If the planet's gate could reach it, Destiny's gate could reach it.

Unless perhaps it was more than one gate away?

by **ArgonV** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:38 pm UTC

The Boz wrote:Even though that was a joke, I love how you question the lesbians not procreating, but not Brody :p
Get off my lawn!

Actually, I got Brody and Volker confused there :oops:

It's hard to have kids when you're dead

phlip wrote:Another interesting data point from this episode: Apparently 2000 years is about how long it takes us to forget about the idea of remote computer access... or even just the ability to start a transfer going and then leave it unattended to finish. Apparently no-one involved in designing that system has ever wanted to watch some particularly high-res porn and had to leave it downloading overnight, or anything.

I mean, it wouldn't've let them download any more once the power went out, but at least they'd be out of the bunker long before it started collapsing on them.

Maybe it's a security thing? It might've been a shelter designed for war, if there's no remote access, there's not chance of the enemy downloading all your information

by **phlip** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:00 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:Maybe it's a security thing? It might've been a shelter designed for war, if there's no remote access, there's not chance of the enemy downloading all your information

Sure, but why, once they'd started the transfer, did they need to hang around? The choice was pretty explicit in a couple of parts - leave now and be safer, or stay longer and get more of the archive... Sounds kinda odd as a security measure.

by **pseudoidiot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

Yeah that stood out to me as being kinda cringe-worthy. I realize the writers needed a reason to make people stick around to increase the drama, but I think something better could've been found. Pretty shitty data transfer method if you need to stay there and babysit it or if it requires any sort of user input beyond the initial transfer command.

Or maybe Eli simply has an obsession with watching progress bars.

by **Zorlin** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:15 am UTC

phlip wrote:
ArgonV wrote:Maybe it's a security thing? It might've been a shelter designed for war, if there's no remote access, there's not chance of the enemy downloading all your information

Sure, but why, once they'd started the transfer, did they need to hang around? The choice was pretty explicit in a couple of parts - leave now and be safer, or stay longer and get more of the archive... Sounds kinda odd as a security measure.

oh my god, I'm so glad this annoyed everyone too. I was sitting there glaring once I figured out they were serious about needing to stick around.

by **SlyReaper** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:57 am UTC

Maybe they could have left, but everyone was struck down by an attack of the stupid? Like a simultaneous brainfart caused by subspace harmonic tachyons reversing polarity in the deflector array? Or something?

by **MiB24601** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:15 pm UTC

Spoiler:

by **phlip** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:33 pm UTC

MiB24601 wrote:The crew was exploring the bunker, raiding it for supplies that they needed, which was the main reason they stayed around after the transfer started.

Yes, it's the main reason, but when they started pulling out because the volcanic activity was getting too much, the last people to leave were the ones babysitting the transfer. At two points, they explicitly spell it out: Eli wants to stay because they only have 1/3 of the database, Young says they're going to cut it short, and get out. Then later, just before the place collapses, "the longer we wait, the better the chances [of the cure being in the data transferred to Destiny], I say it's worth it to stay".

MiB24601 wrote:However, once the crew started reviewing the kino footage and then learned that they needed specific data from the transfer, they began searching for the ALS cure specifically.

No, Eli specifically says they can't do that, because blah blah technobabble compression blah, they couldn't specifically locate any particular info in the database (and see whether it had already been transferred, or prioritise it in the transfer) without cutting off the transfer entirely first.

by **MiB24601** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:04 pm UTC

phlip wrote:Yes, it's the main reason, but when they started pulling out because the volcanic activity was getting too much, the last people to leave were the ones babysitting the transfer. At two points, they explicitly spell it out: Eli wants to stay because they only have 1/3 of the database, Young says they're going to cut it short, and get out. Then later, just before the place collapses, "the longer we wait, the better the chances [of the cure being in the data transferred to Destiny], I say it's worth it to stay".

Except wasn't Varro the person who said that (Lucian Alliance guy who doesn't know how the computer works)?

MiB24601 wrote:However, once the crew started reviewing the kino footage and then learned that they needed specific data from the transfer, they began searching for the ALS cure specifically.

phlip wrote:No, Eli specifically says they can't do that, because blah blah technobabble compression blah, they couldn't specifically locate any particular info in the database (and see whether it had already been transferred, or prioritise it in the transfer) without cutting off the transfer entirely first.

They said they couldn't see what was already transferred because of the data being compressed into a single file. However, they were still going through the computer system, which would only make sense to do if they were also trying to look through files at the bunker independently of the transfer.

Basically, what I got out of watching the episode was that there were two seperate issues, one was the transfer, one was trying to get supplies. While some of the chaarcters may have thought the two issues were the same, they were still pretty independent issues.

by **The Boz** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:23 am UTC

Yeah, the "stay until the transfer is done" thing irks me too. What irks me even more, though, is the complete idiocy of the "select all>copy>paste" method. I mean, you've got the entire wisdom of a two thousand year old civilization at your disposal... wouldn't you prioritise? Like, organize it? Make sure the new is more important than the old (except for the oldest, in this case, since that's us we're talking about here), medicine more important than history, etc. Is the entire database completely unorganized so that they can't optimize the upload?

by **AvatarIII** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:19 pm UTC

i just watched the episode this morning, and i thought it was pretty funny how everyone was distracted by the archives and rush just went off on his own to get the important life or death supplies, it's like everyone completely forgot about them, except the one person who had no interest in the archives because he was never there, on Novus.

so what are they going to do with all the people from the colony? can't they go and catch up with the generation ships drop off the colonists and get the ALS cure?

by **SlyReaper** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

Eli seemed to be implying that looking for a slower-than-light spaceship in deep space was... somewhat tricky. Which is odd because don't they have pretty good sensors on Destiny? A generation ship with supplies for hundreds of people for hundreds of years with near-future technology would be absolutely honking massive. I'm surprised Destiny can't detect it from the ship's gravitational pull alone. Also, they know the starting location, the destination, when it departed, and roughly how fast it will be moving. Surely they could at least have a nose around in the general vicinity of where they expect it to be based on those numbers alone? I mean, that's your only medic. She's worth going out of your way for.

by **Chen** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:11 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Eli seemed to be implying that looking for a slower-than-light spaceship in deep space was... somewhat tricky. Which is odd because don't they have pretty good sensors on Destiny? A generation ship with supplies for hundreds of people for hundreds of years with near-future technology would be absolutely honking massive. I'm surprised Destiny can't detect it from the ship's gravitational pull alone. Also, they know the starting location, the destination, when it departed, and roughly how fast it will be moving. Surely they could at least have a nose around in the general vicinity of where they expect it to be based on those numbers alone? I mean, that's your only medic. She's worth going out of your way for.

Well in reality it would be extremely difficult. But yeah the whole stargate franchise (along with almost all sci fi) usually have some good magic sensors to avoid these types of problems. I suppose the ship could be a cryo ship with very few supplies and be very small and unpowered but even then the magic sensors should be able to find it.

by **AvatarIII** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:17 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Eli seemed to be implying that looking for a slower-than-light spaceship in deep space was... somewhat tricky. Which is odd because don't they have pretty good sensors on Destiny? A generation ship with supplies for hundreds of people for hundreds of years with near-future technology would be absolutely honking massive. I'm surprised Destiny can't detect it from the ship's gravitational pull alone. Also, they know the starting location, the destination, when it departed, and roughly how fast it will be moving. Surely they could at least have a nose around in the general vicinity of where they expect it to be based on those numbers alone? I mean, that's your only medic. She's worth going out of your way for.

lol not to mention the fact that any single human life is normally ranked quite highly in the stargate franchise,
but then again, stargate also has a long history of killing off doctors,

Chen wrote:Well in reality it would be extremely difficult. But yeah the whole stargate franchise (along with almost all sci fi) usually have some good magic sensors to avoid these types of problems. I suppose the ship could be a cryo ship with very few supplies and be very small and unpowered but even then the magic sensors should be able to find it.

good point, for some reason i just assumed it was a generation ship, but it could more feasably be a cryo-ship, for size and supply reasons, they never explicitly say which type it is.

by **Jorpho** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:28 pm UTC

I find myself wondering how a society of stranded, intelligent, and somewhat ideologically-homogeneous spacefarers might evolve. How do you preserve the more abstract knowledge (or at least the knowledge of the importance of the abstract knowledge) for as many generations as it takes to become useful, I wonder? I doubt it makes for very good TV.

Anyway, it seems quite inevitable at this point that Destiny's stasis chambers are going to come into play one way or another. But will they try to tie up the plot thread about the Alliance's attack on Earth?

by **ArgonV** » Tue May 10, 2011 12:52 pm UTC

Damn. Useless ending

by **Yubtzock** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:26 pm UTC

I think this ending is the same as the whole series - slow and sob-y.

I liked the fact that despite open-ended story this last episode featured the opposite series of scenes of Destiny powering down (see the beginning of the first episode, where it boots up). At last some "good cinematography" and no shaky cam. Pity only so little of it. -_-

also: whoever guessed that the pods are going to play some major role: You win a place in the last remaining shuttle in case of emergency, because I honestly thought they are going to ditch this as useless to the plot since the series has been cancelled. Huh... It seems they might have planned it all along.

by **ArgonV** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:03 pm UTC

Well, there was supposed to come a movie after this episode, but that's been cancelled

by **Jorpho** » Wed May 11, 2011 2:58 am UTC

Well, at least the montages were classy. I wonder if they brought in Mr. Goldsmith to do the job properly? (Or has he always been around?)

Yubtzock wrote:I honestly thought they are going to ditch this as useless to the plot since the series has been cancelled. Huh... It seems they might have planned it all along.

Well, you see, the alternative possibility was that TJ would park herself in one of them until an ALS cure was found.

ArgonV wrote:Well, there was supposed to come a movie after this episode, but that's been cancelled

That it has. I guess we can look forward to the Dark Horse comic a few years from now that tries to tie everything up – followed, of course, a few years later by the Flashy Big-Screen Series Reboot!

by **mosc** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:06 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:I find myself wondering how a society of stranded, intelligent, and somewhat ideologically-homogeneous spacefarers might evolve. How do you preserve the more abstract knowledge (or at least the knowledge of the importance of the abstract knowledge) for as many generations as it takes to become useful, I wonder? I doubt it makes for very good TV.

Anyway, it seems quite inevitable at this point that Destiny's stasis chambers are going to come into play one way or another. But will they try to tie up the plot thread about the Alliance's attack on Earth?

I was thinking on similar lines, but focused on the importance of video history. We think of historical figures, especially ones from 2000 years ago as rather dry and inhuman in a lot of ways. Seeing video of, say, caesar playing with his kids by the forum would certainly change my understanding of history. Also, knowing you came from somewhere else would lead to huge cultural impacts.

2000 years of video recorded history could certainly change things

Yubtzock wrote:I think this ending is the same as the whole series - slow and sob-y.

totally agree

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