Iron Man 2

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mosc
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby mosc » Tue May 11, 2010 6:02 pm UTC

I thought parts of the movie were awesome but there was just nothing holding it together and driving it forward. It screamed bad editing to me. I felt like needed pieces to hold the film together were on the floor substituted for substituted for some rather long winded speeches by hammer and a drunk half suited up stark. Particularly jarring to me was Rhody's character who seemed to be a best bud, enemy, and best bud again all changes occurring without any dialog or development.

Scarlett Johansson was AWESOME, the effects were well done, The suits were good. The villains were good (though they let hammer talk too much). I particularly liked the character development being front and center and not wasting too much time on villain origins, etc.

Great pieces, kinda not the whole I was hoping for.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Lounge » Thu May 13, 2010 12:50 pm UTC

Malice wrote:But they kept bringing things up and then not following through.

Spoiler:
Whiplash's father was treated unfairly by Stark's father--but their battle never acknowledged this, and Tony never reacted to it, with guilt or any other response. They just ignored it.
The same goes for the post-battle interrogation, where Whiplash tells Tony, "You lose," with the implication that Tony's public vulnerability will lead to the public turning on him. It does have the effect of making the government want to take his suits even more... and then Rhodes steals one, and the government forgets all about the others.
Then there was the whole "Shield helps him cure himself" thing...



Ultimately I don't think the issue was a lack of coherency. It was a lack of follow-through, in that their subplots kept canceling each other out, with the result that there was very little forward motion in any direction at all except in terms of the burgeoning Marvel movie-verse.


This was what I was for the most part what I was trying to say. Once the movie was over I thought to myself "Okay, so what?" There was a lot going on, but none of it went anywhere. It was a lot of 15-30 minute Iron Man cartoon plotlines strung together, except you probably can't have drunk Iron Man in a cartoon.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby folkhero » Sat May 15, 2010 2:51 pm UTC

Fat Zombie wrote:
Malice wrote:
Spoiler:
Whiplash's father was treated unfairly by Stark's father--but their battle never acknowledged this, and Tony never reacted to it, with guilt or any other response. They just ignored it.



Spoiler:
That was sort-of closed off: the reason for Vanko's deportation was because Vanko treated the arc reactor project as purely a money-making enterprise, rather than a project to help humanity. Also wasn't there something about trying to sneak plans or something? The whole "Whiplash and Stark" thing was a sins-of-the-father thing. Stark and Whiplash were forced into nemesis roles by the actions of their fathers.

Spoiler:
That wasn't all that convincing to me. Papa Stark was already a very rich man by the time he started working with Vanko, presumably he made his money by selling some of his super-science inventions. When Vanko wants to get in on some of that money, Stark says, "I already have enough money, this project is for the good of humanity," when clearly the product would have been able to help humanity hugely and still make tonnes of money and then sends the guy back to the Soviet fucking Union.

It's like if Bill Gates decided that selling operating systems was immoral and they were going to give Windows 7 away for free. His head programmer gets mad, because his bonus is based on how much money Windows 7 makes. He steals some of the code and looks for work that will compensate him fairly for his considerable skill. The Gates finds out, goes apeshit and sends him to North Korea.

Also anyone worried about scientific accuracy should realize that this movie is full of super-science, not real science. Super-science is a sort of magic that super scientists and other smart people can create with some of the trappings of real science. Through the whole movie I was expecting to find out that Howard Stark was a colleague of Jonas Venture.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Malice » Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm UTC

Spoiler:
The thing about the Venko/Stark feud is that we have two different accounts of how it went down, with no way to tell the difference. Either it happened the way folkhero described it, in which case Howard was a huge dick who essentially stole from Venko; or, Venko wasn't just trying to sell it, he was trying to sell it to America's enemy (the Soviets), in which case Howard had some justification for what he did. Since the film never decides, the crux of the whole Venko plot is weakened by this uncertainty, and the morality of Tony Stark's actions is muddled.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Christo » Sun May 16, 2010 10:25 pm UTC

Lounge wrote:It was a lot of 15-30 minute Iron Man cartoon plotlines strung together, except you probably can't have drunk Iron Man in a cartoon.


That's exactly how I felt about it--though I would pay money to see a drunk Iron Man cartoon, maybe Tony could do a PSA at the end teaching the kids what "neat" and "dirty" mean in terms of drinks.

Spoiler:
The physical illness subplot seemed redundant with the celebrity meltdown subplot. Add in his daddy issues, as well as the Shield, Hammer, Whiplash, War Machine, and Pepper subplots; you end up with a very heavy movie. That being said, all the players delivered such great performances, I enjoyed the hell out of it


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Spoiler:
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Endless Mike » Mon May 17, 2010 2:34 pm UTC

Off-topic, but an Iron Fist movie based on the recent Brubaker/Fraction run would be so badass. Especially if they did it in mock kung-fu movie style.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby weiyaoli » Thu May 20, 2010 9:45 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I thought it was largely hit and miss. Started off solidly enough, the Whiplash scenes don't really sway you either way and the news articles are cute.

Then when Iron Man actually appeared, it descended into scene after scene after scene of him being out of his suit being drunk and angsting over his near death!!1! and pissing off every other character he could. I felt the blood toxicity was a rather cheap way of progressing his condition, the veins were much more impressive visually and impacted you more deeply. On the subject of his death, his experiments were actually interesting and fun, except the model being the answer and the huge detour he took to get to it felt cheap and overtly obvious in the smack in your face variety. It drags. The pacing is terrible and I really couldn't bring myself to care about the prison break scene when it did come.

SHEILD felt unnessary. It didn't really work in the Iron Man film and Nick Fury wasn't very inspiring.

On the subject of the numerous plotlines, it did feel unrealsitic that Iron Man was fighting off Vanko, the government, Hammer industries and the military all at once and was slightly ridiculous. I appreciate that you can't base an entire film around Iron Man vs the government but really the short courtroom scene and the "dramatic" development of Rhodes, it all felt a bit underwhelming.

Sums it up really, abit of fun at the start and individual scenes dispersed throughout the film and the ending but tbh a lot to bore.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Tue May 25, 2010 1:56 am UTC

folkhero wrote:Through the whole movie I was expecting to find out that Howard Stark was a colleague of Jonas Venture.


Oh hell yes. I mean, me too. Though the Ventureverse includes so much mockery of/homage to the Marvel 'verse I wasn't sure if that was a kind of chicken-and-egg thing.

I think other posters in this thread have already covered how I feel about the movie -- like they simultaneously crammed a lot in there, and still not a lot happened. My problem was, I didn't so much know who to root for -- in the first movie, Stark is an imperfect character who happens to be awesome. In the sequel, he's ... not awesome any more. I'm more than up for the "Robert Downey Jr. chats at people" formula -- but this time around he's playing a real enough character that I found him hard to like.

So I end up siding with Pepper, who doesn't get to do much besides flip out; and Scarlett's character, who seems like she could be really cool, and is the one character who could actually outsmart Stark, but that doesn't lead much of anywhere.

And while I think it's kind of cool that the story looks at (to an extent) the modern-world implications of Stark's invention:

Spoiler:
...the political implications could get kind of uncomfortable, although that mostly doesn't matter because the government, or at least the government's guy, is definitely more evil; and that doesn't matter, because the world is secretly run by superheroes! Except we don't really get to see any of that yet.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby mr_pathetic » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:57 am UTC

I enjoyed it... was just a fun movie for a night out... wrote a review in fact

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby GiantSnowman » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:37 pm UTC

I have a feeling the character of Nick Fury has been waiting for Samuel Jackson. David Hasslehoff didn't seem to do him justice with all the tight leather.

Question about the little bit after the credits.
Spoiler:
What Marvel baddy flies trough space and has a giant sword?

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:57 am UTC

GiantSnowman wrote:I have a feeling the character of Nick Fury has been waiting for Samuel Jackson. David Hasslehoff didn't seem to do him justice with all the tight leather.

Question about the little bit after the credits.
Spoiler:
What Marvel baddy flies trough space and has a giant sword?


The newer Nick Fury comic character was based on Samuel L. Jackson. This is just that coming full circle.

Also:

Spoiler:
It's not a sword. It's a hammer.

I dunno what to think, but that's sometime next year.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:23 pm UTC

GiantSnowman wrote:I have a feeling the character of Nick Fury has been waiting for Samuel Jackson. David Hasslehoff didn't seem to do him justice with all the tight leather.[/spoiler]

Tight leather (well, tight something, anyway) is what regular universe Nick Fury has always worn in the field, and works fine in a universe full of superheroes in bright costumes. The Hasselhoff costume was pretty right-on for a real-world interpretation of that. (And really, it's not even all that tight. Fitted is probably more accurate.) That movie had far greater problems than Fury's costume.

The Sam Jackson version, as noted, is based on the Ultimate Nick Fury who is, basically, Sam Jackson. The costume change reflects the more grounded version of superheroes that the Ultimate universe contains.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby GhostWolfe » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:01 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:The Samuel L Jackson version, as noted, is based on the Ultimate Nick Fury who is based on Samuel L Jackson.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Christo » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:25 am UTC

Now is that life imitating art imitating life? Or Art imitating art imitating life?
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Aikanaro » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:00 am UTC

It's an infinity vortex. As such, the Paradox Monster has been dispatched to eat everyone involved.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby debnby71760 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:09 pm UTC

Although I thought ironman 2 was good...i believe the first one was much better.

There seemed to be a better story line in Iron man 1 but the thing i did like about Iron man 2 was the one liners....it was much funner.

From what i understand, an Iron Man 3 is in the works and thus far I find these movies enjoyable and will go see the next movie.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

Christo wrote:Now is that life imitating art imitating life? Or Art imitating art imitating life?

The latter. In Ultimate Fury's first appearances, he was a bald black guy. It wasn't until Ultimates #1 that he was drawn as a bald black guy who looks exactly like Samuel L. Jackson.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Mo0man » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:12 pm UTC

I'm fairly certain that Samuel L.Jackson only provided permission for his likeness to be used so that he could later play Nick Fury in the inevitable movie adaptation. I have no sources for this, save for my own personal belief that Samuel L. Jackson is a badass
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:20 pm UTC

I don't think it was initially done with his permission, but then he saw it and was like "hey cool!" since he is a badass.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Jesse » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:09 pm UTC

No, it was actually done with his permission. They had to get permission to use his likeness, which it clearly is.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:59 pm UTC

Fair enough. I'm just saying it's not really how the comics industry typically works, or they'd have to get likeness rights from about a dozen people in every Greg Land-drawn book.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:57 pm UTC

trymineral wrote:And second, yeah he built that costume in his basement...wtf? in the basement, yeah right! in russia all the basements are like that one, totally equipped with the latest technologies.

Not just IN A BASEMENT. He probably had a BOX OF SCRAPS or something equivalent.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Yubtzock » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:19 pm UTC

I didn't like it, seriously. There are a number of things I think I will never understand. For example, the way chosen by Mickey Rourke to play a russian guy. It's ridiculous people, as if all russian drink vodka from the bottle... have you ever tried that, huh? I'm telling you it's quite hard to accomplish, moreover staying with a serious face as if you are drinking water. And second, yeah he built that costume in his basement...wtf? in the basement, yeah right! in russia all the basements are like that one, totally equipped with the latest technologies.

Tried that with vodka and it wasn't easy, but the basement part... well - Stark built his first costume in a cave. Now, caves are better or equally equipped than basement of russian ex-scientist, aren't they?


I'm more concerned how both - Stark and Venko - build their suits(Stark - his first, Venko - his second suit) while being held by someone who wanted them to make something for them that included high-tech weaponry.

/me is writing down 101st point to his list of 'things to remeber after becoming evil overlord':
When holding a scientist in prison and allowing him to build something for me - make sure he has no free time or always assign someone trusted to watch over him and his work.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby ArgonV » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:37 pm UTC

trymineral wrote:It's ridiculous people, as if all russian drink vodka from the bottle... have you ever tried that, huh? I'm telling you it's quite hard to accomplish, moreover staying with a serious face as if you are drinking water.

I can do it with whisky, I suppose wodka won't be much different.
trymineral wrote:And second, yeah he built that costume in his basement...wtf? in the basement, yeah right! in russia all the basements are like that one, totally equipped with the latest technologies.

His suit wasn't half as complicated as Iron Man's. Which was built in a terrorist cave. Who knows, his father might have procured all the necessary equipment while Vanko was in jail, just to get back at Stark.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Vieto » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:26 am UTC

Yubtzock wrote:/me is writing down 101st point to his list of 'things to remeber after becoming evil overlord':
When holding a scientist in prison and allowing him to build something for me - make sure he has no free time or always assign someone trusted to watch over him and his work.


Actually, Hammer tried that. Venko hanged them.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Jesse » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:11 pm UTC

Also, last night I drank plenty of vodka straight from the bottle, and I'm only half Scottish.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby JayDee » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:25 pm UTC

Mmm. It's vodka - not the hardest of things to drink. (granted, I am also part Scottish.)
Vieto wrote:
Yubtzock wrote:When holding a scientist in prison and allowing him to build something for me - make sure he has no free time or always assign someone trusted to watch over him and his work.
Actually, Hammer tried that. Venko hanged them.
Also, wasn't Stark under observation in the first film? I half-remember scenes where they employed subterfuge, disguising what they were doing so the people watching on CCT didn't realise what they were up to. I'm not sure, either, if the doctor guy Stark was hanging out with in the cave counts as 'someone trusted, watching over him' who simply turned out to not be as trustworthy as thought.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:06 pm UTC

JayDee wrote:
Vieto wrote:
Yubtzock wrote:When holding a scientist in prison and allowing him to build something for me - make sure he has no free time or always assign someone trusted to watch over him and his work.
Actually, Hammer tried that. Venko hanged them.
Also, wasn't Stark under observation in the first film? I half-remember scenes where they employed subterfuge, disguising what they were doing so the people watching on CCT didn't realise what they were up to.

Typical. When the Americans do it, it's fine. When the Russians do it, Oh, they're so evil! Because they're Russians they MUST be up to no good.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Zohar » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:38 pm UTC

Those Russians started making trouble in the neighborhood!
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Vieto » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:27 pm UTC

Lets make a movie where the Russians are the protagonist, and the Americans are the antagonists, just to stir things up.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby ArgonV » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:38 pm UTC

The hunt for Red October has a group of Russians as a protagonist, and an American sub as an antagonist, if I remember correctly

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Vieto » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:50 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:The hunt for Red October has a group of Russians as a protagonist, and an American sub as an antagonist, if I remember correctly


Yeah, but the Americans still saved the day... (Jack Ryan being the primary protagonist and all)

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Josephine » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:21 am UTC

Vieto wrote:Lets make a movie where the Russians are the protagonist, and the Americans are the antagonists, just to stir things up.

Learn Russian.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Vieto » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:01 pm UTC

nbonaparte wrote:
Vieto wrote:Lets make a movie where the Russians are the protagonist, and the Americans are the antagonists, just to stir things up.

Learn Russian.

Nyet

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Atomic Toast » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:34 am UTC

Here's what I think.
This is, behind The Dark Knight and Watchmen, the best comic-based movie I've ever seen, and it should set the example for the ones to follow.

It's true enough to the comics, managing to please the fans without alienating the rest of the audience.
There's a lot of stuff happening in the film, enough to keep you entertained at all times, but without making the movie too crammed (unlike a certain Spider-Man film).

Lastly, I want to add that the casting was once again spot-on, even if Hammer was too young.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:21 am UTC

Atomic Toast wrote:Here's what I think.
This is, behind The Dark Knight and Watchmen, the best comic-based movie I've ever seen, and it should set the example for the ones to follow.

It's true enough to the comics, managing to please the fans without alienating the rest of the audience.
There's a lot of stuff happening in the film, enough to keep you entertained at all times, but without making the movie too crammed (unlike a certain Spider-Man film).

It is an okay film, but I don't think it sets a benchmark. Spider-Man 2, for example, was a cleaner film with a better balance of action, drama, and humour. Iron Man 2 had this whole Avenger bit which just seemed misplaced and unnecessary. Or, more to the point, the progression of the sickness he has just seemed contrived so that Nick Fury could insert himself into the plot.

The real film that sets the example for comic-based films is Star Wars. It has the relatable protagonist who is sucked into a conflict, and must discover his powers in order to triumph: classic story-telling in a fantastic universe. Empire and Jedi don't represent archetypes as much, but do serve as a strong example about where you can take such a story after the initial victory.
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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby H.E.L.e.N. » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:44 pm UTC

I think the first Iron Man was pretty much an ideal superhero movie. The second had a bunch of plot bits that didn't really pay off.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:34 pm UTC

Atomic Toast wrote:Here's what I think.
This is, behind The Dark Knight and Watchmen, the best comic-based movie I've ever seen, and it should set the example for the ones to follow.


Wow, I don't think Watchmen even belongs in the same sentence as Dark Knight, much less as among the best.

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Re: Iron Man 2

Postby Aikanaro » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:17 pm UTC

H.E.L.e.N. wrote:I think the first Iron Man was pretty much an ideal superhero movie. The second had a bunch of plot bits that didn't really pay off.

Watch IM2, then watch IM1 again, and reconsider. In hindsight, IM2 is actually the better film, I think. We're just holding it up to a higher standard because we remember IM1 as being freakin' fantastic, whereas when IM1 came out, we didn't know what to expect.
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