Sherunlocked

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Sherunlocked

Postby MiB24601 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:15 pm UTC

Sherlock is a great new show on BBC1 by Steven Moffat (writer of Coupling, Jekyll and Doctor Who) and Mark Gatiss (The League of Gentlemen). It's a three episode series that transplants Holmes and Watson to modern day London, with each episode running at 90 minutes. Holmes is played by Benedict Cumberbatch, who for some reason really reminds me of Matt Smith's Doctor. Watson is played by Martin Freeman, who is famous for the original UK version of The Office and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy theatrical movie.

The first episode was A Study in Pink, a retelling of A Study in Scarlet that is thematically similar but different enough to feel at home in the modern setting and to provide surprises to even those with a complete knowledge of Arthur Conan Doyle's canon. In fact, while a knowledge of the original stories are not necessary, there are plenty of tiny references to the original stories that will pass unremarked by the unknowing viewer but will cause someone who catches the reference to, well, squeal in joy, is the crass but accurate way to describe it.

I think this show is delightful. I'm not a big fan of texting myself but I loved watching Holmes as a texting addict, which is done by Cumberbatch to feel right for the character. Mark Gatiss, who is writing the third episode, appears in the series and he plays an important character in the mythos to perfection. The friendship between Holmes and Watson is hilarious to watch. Hopefully, everyone who is a fan of Sherlock Holmes will get to watch it, mostly so we can chat about it here. :-D
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Re: Sherlock

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:15 am UTC

I've seen the first two now and I've really loved them. They've made me want to read the books more than I already wanted to. (Incidentally, while looking up the novels I found this anthology of Sherlock stories transferred to the C'thulu universe)
I'm not so much a fan of the arrogant 'How do you people live being so stupid?!' sentiment expressed in the first episode but that was certainly toned down in the second.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby MiB24601 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:05 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:I'm not so much a fan of the arrogant 'How do you people live being so stupid?!' sentiment expressed in the first episode but that was certainly toned down in the second.


That didn't really bug me but I can see how it would be bothersome. Normally, I hate it when a writer does that in order to demonstrate how smart their characters are but with Sherlock Holmes, I'm OK with it. It would get old very fast so I do agree that it's good it's not mentioned again.

TaintedDeity wrote:(Incidentally, while looking up the novels I found this anthology of Sherlock stories transferred to the C'thulu universe)


I've read A Study in Emerald, which I thought was marvelous. When the story was first nominated for the Hugo award, it was placed online so it could be read by a larger audience. I'm guessing the stories in the anthology don't really fit together that well, since as good as A Study in Emerald is, it really doesn't allow for further stories to be set following the premise of the story (I say, trying to avoid spoiling what is really a terrific story).
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Re: Sherlock

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:10 am UTC

See, I've only read one or two of the short stories so it might be that I just don't like Sherlock as written :p
We shall see! I'll go for A Study in Scarlet because it's the first and it allows me to read A Study in Emerald afterwards!
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Phill » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:17 pm UTC

It's been years since I've read or watched any Sherlock Holmes (I remember seeing a lot of the Basil Rathbone films a long time ago).

I think they've nailed it in this series though: the characters seem about right and they've updated them pretty well. I thought the second episode wasn't quite as good as the first (I think the first was written by Steven Moffatt and the second by Mark Gatiss, which would explain why the first episode had many Moffatt-isms in it).

My favourite Sherlock line so far:

Spoiler:
(Watson walks in after having been out shopping)

Sherlock: "I asked you to pass me a pen."

Watson: "When did you do that?"

Sherlock: "An hour ago."


Anyway I'm really looking forward to the next episode. And I hope they make some more after this!

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Re: Sherlock

Postby beyondweird » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:19 pm UTC

This week's episode was wonderful - I really love the dynamic between Holmes and Watson, especially where he
Spoiler:
joins in on the date and doesn't see why he shouldn't


Also, Benedict Cumberbatch is a very oddly pretty person.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:38 am UTC

I generally dislike attempts to modernize Sherlock Holmes, preferring the Jeremy Brett interpretation, which is a bit dusty but faithful to the original story.

But this one is actually pretty good. Probably because, instead of bringing the modern to the past introducing a bunch of anachronisms and deviating from Arthur Conan Doyle's script by turning him into an action hero brawler, they bring the past to the modern, which is somehow more acceptable to me.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby MiB24601 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:42 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:But this one is actually pretty good. Probably because, instead of bringing the modern to the past introducing a bunch of anachronisms and deviating from Arthur Conan Doyle's script by turning him into an action hero brawler, they bring the past to the modern, which is somehow more acceptable to me.


Sherlock Holmes always has been more than capable in a fight.
Spoiler:
This is indeed reflected in Sherlock. There was even a scene in the most recent episode, The Blind Banker, where Sherlock fought off an armed intruder without issue.

In The Sign of Four, Sherlock was written as having held his own against a prize-fighter, who had told Sherlock that he would have made an excellent boxer. In The Adventure of the Empty House, Sherlock mentioned having overcome Moriariy using Japanese wrestling.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:04 am UTC

MiB24601 wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:But this one is actually pretty good. Probably because, instead of bringing the modern to the past introducing a bunch of anachronisms and deviating from Arthur Conan Doyle's script by turning him into an action hero brawler, they bring the past to the modern, which is somehow more acceptable to me.


Sherlock Holmes always has been more than capable in a fight.
Spoiler:
This is indeed reflected in Sherlock. There was even a scene in the most recent episode, The Blind Banker, where Sherlock fought off an armed intruder without issue.

In The Sign of Four, Sherlock was written as having held his own against a prize-fighter, who had told Sherlock that he would have made an excellent boxer. In The Adventure of the Empty House, Sherlock mentioned having overcome Moriariy using Japanese wrestling.


He is a capable boxer and martial artist, but not a brawler. The man's a Victorian gentleman, after all.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:09 am UTC

I'm loving this series. I now have something to look forward to on Sundays now that Top Gear has finished. :mrgreen:

I did think the whole idea of putting Holmes and Watson in modern London would be a terrible idea (and that all of Holmes' deductive talents would be made obsolete by DNA sampling and whatnot), but this is actualy very well done.

However, I will start getting annoyed if every episode ends with a reference to Moriarty.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Phill » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:21 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I'm loving this series. I now have something to look forward to on Sundays now that Top Gear has finished. :mrgreen:

However, I will start getting annoyed if every episode ends with a reference to Moriarty.


You do know that it's a mini-series, and there are only three episodes - two of which have already been aired?

This is why I'm hoping there are more!

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Re: Sherlock

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:53 pm UTC

I didn't know that.

Bugger.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:34 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I didn't know that.

Bugger.


Have hope.

Wikipedia wrote:After the high ratings for "A Study in Pink", the BBC were reportedly eager to produce a longer series of Sherlock, though nothing has been confirmed as of July 2010.[48] Cumberbatch reports that BBC executives "really want to do more, so the question is not really if, but how and when we can do them."[49]
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Re: Sherlock

Postby MotorToad » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:53 am UTC

IMDB says four episodes. It needs to be forty. Crap, just went to the imdb site to check and one episode is "Unaired Pilot," which is either a very clever twist to a Holmes title I can't place, or a hard spot on the road to forty episodes.

I have a couple of complaints after the first episode, though:

Martin Freeman never says
Spoiler:
Dent Arthur Dent.


The cabbie wasn't
Spoiler:
Roger Daltry.


In all seriousness, I'm not the most knowledgeable of every nuance of every Holmes story, but it seemed to me there was a little too much
Spoiler:
Princess Bride in the showdown of the first episode. I expected to hear something about Iocane powder or land wars in Asia at any second. I think it's possible that the scene in Princess Bride is an homage to a Sir ACD story and I didn't get it, or the show should have thrown in some more homage or even a thank-you to Princess Bride.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Adacore » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:43 pm UTC

I was seriously impressed by the first episode, but didn't really give the second my full attention and didn't enjoy it as much. I'm not sure what the cause/effect was on that - maybe it wasn't as strong, so it didn't hold my interest, or maybe I wasn't following it enough to enjoy the intricacies. Was it based on any of the Conan Doyle stories, by the way? It had a few superficial similarities to The Sign of the Four, but wasn't really all that close in terms of plot.

I guess from the fact there's only one episode left, Moriarty is going to be kept firmly in the shadows and not have some big showdown in the third episode of the miniseries. That will, presumably, be held back for any further series that are commissioned.

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Re: Sherlock

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:02 pm UTC

I've only seen the first episode, but I loved it... I was a little skeptical about them using the "genius who notices every detail about everything" trope, but it worked out pretty well. And the floating text effects were brilliant.

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Re: Sherlock

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:54 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:I was seriously impressed by the first episode, but didn't really give the second my full attention and didn't enjoy it as much. I'm not sure what the cause/effect was on that - maybe it wasn't as strong, so it didn't hold my interest, or maybe I wasn't following it enough to enjoy the intricacies. Was it based on any of the Conan Doyle stories, by the way? It had a few superficial similarities to The Sign of the Four, but wasn't really all that close in terms of plot.


Wikipedia says: This episode is loosely based on Conan Doyle's The Adventure of the Dancing Men, The Sign of the Four, The Valley of Fear, and The Five Orange Pips.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:05 pm UTC

And it totally made me think of the yellow sign from The King in Yellow. It's the same colour paint used in all images of it and the king.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Felstaff » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:05 pm UTC

Re: first episode (haven't seen the second)

It's been a while since I read a Study in Scarlet, but I don't recall the whole thing about there being four poisonings? (Like there was in the adaptation) I thought there was only two - the first with the corpse of a guy who scrawled Rache on the wall - which turned out not to mean Rachel, and the second was the guy he was boarding with... and it was something to do with the Mormon part of the novel (which I skipped over). What was the difference between the two murderers? And I swear Moriarty didn't make his way into the Sherlock canon until way way way later.

Anyway, I think this was an ideal role for Martin Freeman, who I don't really rate as an actor (outside of The Office) Can't wait for Tintin!
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:00 am UTC

I found out about this a couple days ago. Moffat really likes those odd types of faces. I find both sherlock and the eleventh doctor attractive but it took a few minutes to get used to them.

MotorToad wrote:
Spoiler:
Princess Bride in the showdown of the first episode. I expected to hear something about Iocane powder ...


Me too! For the end of the first episode
Spoiler:
the cabbie had spent the 3 years since finding out about his aneurism building an immunity to iocane powder. Or less sillily, that they both were poisoned but the cabbie had the antidote.


The second episode was less awesome but enjoyable nonetheless. I love the 90-minute style. Since IT crowd just finished it fills my british geeky show void which was filling my doctor who void. After tomorrow I dont know what'll fill this void.... suggestions?

Anyways one thing I didnt care for
Spoiler:
The girl hadnt been a part of criminal activity in years but the tattoo on her heel was still there. I would expect heel tattoos to wear out and need constant attending.


I hope they leave it open for a second season. I cannot imagine how they resolve any larger storylines in one episode. I dont think I want them too. Not that Moffats not capable but he isnt writing the third episode anyways.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby beyondweird » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:01 am UTC

sugarhyped wrote:I found out about this a couple days ago. Moffat really likes those odd types of faces. I find both sherlock and the eleventh doctor attractive but it took a few minutes to get used to them
...
I hope they leave it open for a second season. I cannot imagine how they resolve any larger storylines in one episode. I dont think I want them too. Not that Moffats not capable but he isnt writing the third episode anyways.


Yay! Someone else who finds them attractive - not that many people I know do.

Also, I think it will have been left open for another season - an interview with Mark Gatiss in one of the papers I read today said that they felt they "have enough ideas for a second season - probably even a fourth really". :)
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:28 am UTC

I'm still digesting the latest episode. I don't know if it was just this episode but I noticed a LOT of references to the stories. I cannot even remember them all... but I especially liked the replacement to the Baker Street Boys.

It was a really good episode. I don't want to wait a year to see how the end turns out.

Spoiler:
I enjoyed that they are showing John's and Sherlock's friendship. Interesting choice for Moriarty. I wasn't expecting the reveal so early on and I I am more surprised than disappointed. Others are going to complain about him.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:21 am UTC

The ending was
Spoiler:
fantastic, if not unexpected. Not sure if I like Moriarty though, he's too... Joker-ish. Maybe I just need to watch it again.

On that note, did anyone else see a bit of the Doctor/Master relationship with Holmes and Moriarty? I knew Moffat was writing, but...

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Re: Sherlock

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:41 am UTC

I'm kinda sad how they burn like 5 Sherlock Holmes stories in every episode. If this gets renewed, and they continue this practice, the next season will be like 4 episodes long, and then Conan Doyles' works will have been spent.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby MiB24601 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:24 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:I'm kinda sad how they burn like 5 Sherlock Holmes stories in every episode. If this gets renewed, and they continue this practice, the next season will be like 4 episodes long, and then Conan Doyles' works will have been spent.


There are 56 short stories and 4 novels. That should cover several 3-episode seasons.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Patch » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:23 pm UTC

Since I partially missed this (and had to catch up on the website) ...

For those in the U.S. who didn't torrent the eps over the summer, PBS' Masterpiece Mystery is airing them on Sundays, starting last Sunday (the 24th of September), ending the Sunday after next (the 7th of October). Link for watching online. Also, good little snippets of an interview with Moffat and Gatiss.

Interview-related spoilers:

Spoiler:
I like Moffat's thoughts on who the Doctor and Sherlock are. The Doctor is an angel trying to be a man; Sherlock is a man trying to be a god. It plays out in the plots: the Doctor's flaw is that he puts others in mortal danger, while Sherlock's hubris gets Sherlock himself in mortal danger.


Tremendously enjoyed the first ep. As my partner pointed out, it's a little like just watching more episodes of Doctor Who, but given the fact that we won't have more Who to watch 'til Christmas, this is hardly a bad thing.

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Re: Sherlock

Postby Felstaff » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:17 pm UTC

I like how Martin Freeman will simultaneously be juggling Bilbo Baggins and Dr. Watson. Having already played Arthur Dent, I can't believe such a bland, understated actor can play so many iconic roles !
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:01 am UTC

I looked on wikipedia to see when it was coming back and nothing yet but Moffat gave 3 clues as to whats to come.
Spoiler:
adler, hound, reichenbach

I am excited for all those things. The second of which was the first Sherlock story I ever read.
Spoiler:
As far as adler goes, I hope sherlock gets his confidence shot a bit. And I hope reichenbach doesn't end badly...
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Re: Sherlock

Postby KeyserSoze » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:10 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:I'm not so much a fan of the arrogant 'How do you people live being so stupid?!' sentiment expressed in the first episode but that was certainly toned down in the second.

Some of the stuff I hear in my job makes me wonder how people can operate a car or cross a street without being run over... :|

I'm looking forward to the next series. Can't come soon enough, as long as it keeps up the quality of the last one.

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Re: Sherlock

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:27 pm UTC

It's back! I'm gonna watch it tonight!

gif spoiler (no plot inside):
Spoiler:
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:44 am UTC

I did not know it was tonight to thanks for that. It's a shame Moffat only writes the first ep of the season because that was really good.

I don't know what to say except i thoroughly enjoyed it and am really happy with the 90 minute episode format.

2x01 spoilers
Spoiler:
I enjoyed the beginning most.
Mycroft and Holmes arguing at the Buckingham Palace and then Holmes entering Adlers place when she was already expecting him.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:32 am UTC

Spoiler:
I thought it all got a bit
"Aha! I am smarter than you!"
"It is I that is smarter than you!"
"But wait! This situation is bigger than you know!"
"No no, I know that and more!"
And in the end I was left thinking, yeah. They're so great and super awesome and it was all ridiculously complex and layered like it had all got a bit out of hand.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:07 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:
Spoiler:
I thought it all got a bit
"Aha! I am smarter than you!"
"It is I that is smarter than you!"
"But wait! This situation is bigger than you know!"
"No no, I know that and more!"
And in the end I was left thinking, yeah. They're so great and super awesome and it was all ridiculously complex and layered like it had all got a bit out of hand.



Yeah but I enjoyed that dynamic.
The end was a bit convoluted.
Spoiler:
Especially when Mycroft explained Irene Adler's death to Watson. I was a bit tired by that point. Also there are a lot of things other than "SHER" she could have put down. I'm not sure what but that was a very lucky guess. I'm glad they showed she was alive right there instead of a couple seasons down the road and they want to bring her back.

Overall though I was pretty happy with the episode.
It's sad that there are only 3 episodes in a season. If they are quality episodes though I'm okay with that.

EDIT: I rescind my complaint about passwords.
Spoiler:
Her cellphone said "I am [blank] locked" so with the SHER we get "I am SHERlocked" so that was a really god guess. Okay then I'm back to only being a bit tired by the point Mycroft is talking about Irene's death.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:42 pm UTC

Okay, speculation time.

Spoiler:
How the hell did Sherlock survive being dead? My theory is when that cyclist knocked Watson over (fucking cyclists think they own the road!), it dazed him enough that he saw what he expected to see, like with the gas in the previous episode. In reality, it wasn't that bad. Sherlock survived but convinced the paramedics to help him fake his death, or he went into a witness protection scheme or something.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby blue_eyedspacemonkey » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:51 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Okay, speculation time.

Spoiler:
How the hell did Sherlock survive being dead? My theory is when that cyclist knocked Watson over (fucking cyclists think they own the road!), it dazed him enough that he saw what he expected to see, like with the gas in the previous episode. In reality, it wasn't that bad. Sherlock survived but convinced the paramedics to help him fake his death, or he went into a witness protection scheme or something.



Spoiler:
It's possible to stop your own pulse, Derren Brown style, which would get around John checking it at the scene. Maybe some contacts in the paramedics (like when John got that fake phonecall about Mrs. Hudson)? Then just skip out of the morgue and do a runner, with the help of Molly (he did ask her for help at one point and we never found out what he asked her, and never saw her mourning).

In the stories Mycroft new Sherlock had faked his death so he could also be helping (especially as it's all his fault anyway).
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Re: Sherlock

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:59 pm UTC

Look what I just found.

Spoiler:
Image

That's not Cumberbatch! In fact it looks kind of like Moriarty's face if you squint enough and tilt your head. If Mycroft ordered the doctors to fake the paperwork and ignore inconvenient facts like "that's not Holmes" and "what's this bullet doing in here", he could quite easily fake his death.

What I don't get though is that Holmes told Watson to keep watching him as he fell. How would he be able to throw the body off the roof without Watson noticing?
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What would Baron Harkonnen do?

blue_eyedspacemonkey
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Re: Sherlock

Postby blue_eyedspacemonkey » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:19 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Look what I just found.

Spoiler:
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That's not Cumberbatch! In fact it looks kind of like Moriarty's face if you squint enough and tilt your head. If Mycroft ordered the doctors to fake the paperwork and ignore inconvenient facts like "that's not Holmes" and "what's this bullet doing in here", he could quite easily fake his death.

What I don't get though is that Holmes told Watson to keep watching him as he fell. How would he be able to throw the body off the roof without Watson noticing?


Spoiler:
oo, that's interesting. John has to believe that Sherlock's dead, I think. That way Sherlock can do whatever it is he needs to do in order to get rid of the rest of Moriarty's gang or whatever it is he's disappeared to do. How he managed the switch I can't figure out.
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sugarhyped
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:12 pm UTC

Honestly I felt the whole episode was predictable. (Granted I have read the story thats loosely associated with this episode) Maybe I just dont care for this writer.

Anyways in regards to the ending.
Spoiler:
I think Sherlock asked for Molly's help in faking his death. She could have procured a fake body that would look just enough like him. Or he didn't die from the fall through some careful planning (remember he chose the location), and then she announced him dead being a coroner type.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:43 am UTC

Liked the finale, hated the Irene Adler episode. They destroyed the character.

The point of Irene Adler is that she's the one that outwitted Sherlock and got away. She didn't fall in love, or let any admiration for Sherlock get in the way of her schemes. And in the modernization she was given a getwaway as a means to appease but it falls flat when the character ends up defeated, and in the predictable "silly women and their emotions" fashion, with Sherlock saving her from decapitation on top.

Really? This is a woman who has made her way through the world prior to meeting Sherlock, survived a meeting with Moriarty, and she needs Sherlock's protection? What did she do when she didn't have her smartphone's "protection"? She went out and got it. So what prevented her from getting "protection" again?

And then the writer commented on the Adler episode, and it all fell together. It wasn't about Adler so much as using her character as a fucking "I'm not gay" reassurance plot device for Sherlock Holmes. To which I'll respond, if you don't fucking want your character's sexuality confused, skip the fucking hojay dialogue of prior episodes and the constant references to their being mistaken as a couple alongside domestic squabbles. Don't fuck up Irene to clean up the mess you made before.

And would a sexually ambiguous Holmes be such a fucking departure from the character? They made him a freaky oddball pseudo-scientist, for fuck's sake. Obviously, though, this all goes back to the Guy Ritchie conflict where the copyright holder got pissed off with speculation that Holmes might be featured homoerotically, saying it totally warped the character. Given that she was so offended before, it wouldn't be a surprise if these writers have had to make concessions as well to maintain permission to use the character.

They could've just kept Holmes asexual and not made the one female intellectual heavyweight into yet another almost as good as the male protagonist but ultimately vulnerable female romantic interest.

P.S. Andrew Scott better have pulled a Moriarty stunt to Sherlock's own. He's too sexy to depart the series. I swear that cute receding hairline gives me the vapors.
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sugarhyped
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Re: Sherlock

Postby sugarhyped » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:52 am UTC

@Lucrece

See i just pretend everything from the point where she said Moriarty helped me onward wasn't a part of the episode. What would you think if that last 5 minutes didn't exist?

I'd say it was a great episode otherwise. I do agree with your comments about Adler (I blame Moffat) being ruined but I enjoyed the episode a lot as a whole and it was way better than guy ritchie's movie so...
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