Sherunlocked

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Re: Sherlock

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:53 am UTC

Well, Guy Ritchie's "Hollywood era of 300-fying everything for insecure teeny-boppers and their manchild guardians" version of Sherlock can make even a high school interpretation of Jane Eyre look like a masterpiece.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Hawknc » Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:04 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Liked the finale, hated the Irene Adler episode. They destroyed the character.

The point of Irene Adler is that she's the one that outwitted Sherlock and got away. She didn't fall in love, or let any admiration for Sherlock get in the way of her schemes. And in the modernization she was given a getwaway as a means to appease but it falls flat when the character ends up defeated, and in the predictable "silly women and their emotions" fashion, with Sherlock saving her from decapitation on top.

Really? This is a woman who has made her way through the world prior to meeting Sherlock, survived a meeting with Moriarty, and she needs Sherlock's protection? What did she do when she didn't have her smartphone's "protection"? She went out and got it. So what prevented her from getting "protection" again?

And then the writer commented on the Adler episode, and it all fell together. It wasn't about Adler so much as using her character as a fucking "I'm not gay" reassurance plot device for Sherlock Holmes. To which I'll respond, if you don't fucking want your character's sexuality confused, skip the fucking hojay dialogue of prior episodes and the constant references to their being mistaken as a couple alongside domestic squabbles. Don't fuck up Irene to clean up the mess you made before.

And would a sexually ambiguous Holmes be such a fucking departure from the character? They made him a freaky oddball pseudo-scientist, for fuck's sake. Obviously, though, this all goes back to the Guy Ritchie conflict where the copyright holder got pissed off with speculation that Holmes might be featured homoerotically, saying it totally warped the character. Given that she was so offended before, it wouldn't be a surprise if these writers have had to make concessions as well to maintain permission to use the character.

They could've just kept Holmes asexual and not made the one female intellectual heavyweight into yet another almost as good as the male protagonist but ultimately vulnerable female romantic interest.

P.S. Andrew Scott better have pulled a Moriarty stunt to Sherlock's own. He's too sexy to depart the series. I swear that cute receding hairline gives me the vapors.

Sexism would be a trait of Moffat's not unique to Sherlock.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Gellert1984 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:51 pm UTC

Hawknc wrote:Sexism would be a trait of Moffat's not unique to Sherlock.


I'd argue a lot of that article.

Some examples:
'"masculine" reason over pesky "feminine" emotion'
except that he's in love with her to and since he's never really faced his emotions he has a great deal of difficulty dealing with them.

'An insufficiently stimulating case will be summarily dismissed as "boring".'
Which causes him to miss things, in two episodes he's seen dismissing cases that, later, its pointed out to him are actually way more important than he initially gave them credit for.

Re:adler;'in Moffat's hands, less a matter of brains, and more a matter of knowing "what men like" and how to give it to them'
She wielded sex like a weapon and juggled international secrets to protect her chosen lifestyle. I'll admit I don't much care for the character but I wouldn't say moffats Adler is some sexist idealised woman. Mrs. Hudson on the other hand...

What I really didnt like about that ep is they seem to abandon her character's most likely actions in order to shoehorn in Moriarty. Why would Adler go to a consulting criminal? Why bother coming back from the dead?

Also 'Despite identifying as a lesbian' She's bisexual, not a lesbian.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:20 pm UTC

Adler seemed like she could be an independent contractor to Moriarty, but aggravatingly enough they made her subordinate. Let's not forget it was Adler who truly foiled Holmes and Moriarty and Holmes were more of an even match, so if anything one would think she'd be an exceptional being just like them and not just an above average one.

Also, the lesbian with the exception for the right man is a tired trope. I almost wish she wasn't even a lesbian given the stereotypical sexualization she was given. I'll admit not wearing anything was a clever plot point. But beyond that she quickly became a tool rather than a character.

I don't even get the need for one big bad eclipsing all others. Why can't the hero have different but still interesting and competent adversaries encountering him in his adventures? Why can't there be more than one worthy match? That's not often how real life works.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby mr-mitch » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:31 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote: Let's not forget it was Adler who truly foiled Holmes and Moriarty and Holmes were more of an even match,


She used her breasts. That's cheating.

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Re: Sherlock

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:33 pm UTC

I love this fandom so much.
Spoiler:
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Re: Sherlock

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:39 pm UTC

Spoiler:
So Holmes told Watson to keep standing in a very specific place, and that place just happened to be behind a shorter building so he wouldn't see Holmes hit the ground. I'm pretty sure that'll turn out to be important. There was also an open-top garbage truck right next to where he fell. My new theory: he arranged to have that garbage truck parked there with bags full of cotton in the back, and jumped into that. Then before Watson could run around the smaller building, he hopped out onto the pavement and splashed some fake blood around. The cyclist was only there to delay Watson long enough that he could pull that off.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Lucrece » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:22 pm UTC

Tricking Watson was besides the point, because who he really needed to trick were the snipers, and he had no idea where they were holed up or what line of sight they had.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:58 am UTC

One important part of Sherlock's "death"... Remember the little ball he was throwing around?

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Re: Sherlock

Postby Angua » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:14 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:One important part of Sherlock's "death"... Remember the little ball he was throwing around?

My boyfriend used to do that with a rolled up piece of paper. Awesome use of gifs though!
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Re: Sherlock

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:05 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:One important part of Sherlock's "death"... Remember the little ball he was throwing around?


Taking a pulse at the wrist is unreliable even at the best of times (I don't think anyone's ever picked up my pulse from my wrist) without being concussed or having the person hold a ball in their armpit so it probably wouldn't have been particularly necessary. Also, how would Sherlock have known which wrist John would go for? Or were the passers-by/homeless network under orders to direct him to a particular arm.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:12 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Tricking Watson was besides the point, because who he really needed to trick were the snipers, and he had no idea where they were holed up or what line of sight they had.

He'd know where all the good sniping spots were though. This is the same guy who, from memory managed to pinpoint a single location based on local geology. And remember he chose the building to meet Moriarty on.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Gellert1984 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:12 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Tricking Watson was besides the point, because who he really needed to trick were the snipers, and he had no idea where they were holed up or what line of sight they had.

He'd know where all the good sniping spots were though. This is the same guy who, from memory managed to pinpoint a single location based on local geology. And remember he chose the building to meet Moriarty on.


There are other factors to consider as well of course. Mycroft indicated each assassin to be working independantly, so there would be no spotter. I've never known a marksman to use such a low level of magnification that s/he could reasonably view Holmes while keeping a track on Watson. As such, the sniper could only keep a watch on Watson and would be reliant on visual cues as to what was going on.

Sherlock only had to trick Watson into believing he's dead.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:48 pm UTC

Gellert1984 wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Tricking Watson was besides the point, because who he really needed to trick were the snipers, and he had no idea where they were holed up or what line of sight they had.

He'd know where all the good sniping spots were though. This is the same guy who, from memory managed to pinpoint a single location based on local geology. And remember he chose the building to meet Moriarty on.


There are other factors to consider as well of course. Mycroft indicated each assassin to be working independantly, so there would be no spotter. I've never known a marksman to use such a low level of magnification that s/he could reasonably view Holmes while keeping a track on Watson. As such, the sniper could only keep a watch on Watson and would be reliant on visual cues as to what was going on.


IIRC, when the sniper is showning packing his rifle up, it looks like he was watching Holmes but that, from his point of view, the truck would still have obscured the landing so Holmes' fall would have tricked both the sniper and John.
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Sprocket » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:58 am UTC

this confirms my suspicions about matt smith having a similar vibe to benedict cumberbatch http://airlockalpha.com/node/7655/sherl ... r-who.html
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Re: Sherlock

Postby Angua » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:24 pm UTC

So, it's back :)

Spoiler:
I loved the slashfic reference. That was hilarious. I must admit, I was a bit disappointed at the beginning when it looked like they were telling us -they got me there. I'll be interested to see where they go with Mary - I don't trust her, but that could be too obvious?
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby tomandlu » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:06 am UTC

Three questions:

Spoiler:
Was the final version the true version of how he did it? If so, what was the point of the second body? (the Sherlock look-alike). Was Watson in the bonfire connected to the terrorist plot or something else? If the former, I missed it...
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:37 am UTC

Spoiler:
I think even the last one was supposed to be false. I love how they played with the "how did he do it" thing; the Sherlock-Moriarty slash version was awesome. I wonder if they're ever going to reveal how it was actually done.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Hawknc » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:40 am UTC

Spoiler:
I think Watson and the bonfire was a lead-in to the Big Bad Guy of this season, so it will become more relevant with the next couple of episodes.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Angua » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:05 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I think the last one was just a hallucination of the guy with a beard. He goes 'why would you tell me this' then insanely starts tearing down the stuff on the walls.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Angua » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:12 am UTC

Double posting for hilarious buzzfeed link
Spoiler:
all the shots with the underground and how they don't fit together. Someone had a lot of time on their hands!
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby tomandlu » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:32 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
I think the last one was just a hallucination of the guy with a beard. He goes 'why would you tell me this' then insanely starts tearing down the stuff on the walls.


Spoiler:
It was certainly ambiguous, but it could be read that Sherlock told him knowing that he would be disappointed. Once again, a slight tease on all those who had spent so long puzzling over it in real life. Now they know, but the fun of not knowing and trying to work it out has gone, plus it was really disappointing (in a good way imho).

BTW anyone seen the fake staging of a meeting between Mycroft and Moriarty that they set up, knowing someone would record it on a camera phone? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uzqMiM1MBf4
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Carlington » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:50 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I thought the bonfire might've just been an allusion to the Guy Fawkes-inspired plot to blow up the houses of Parliament, but then, they seemed to make a bit of a bigger deal of it than that at the end of the episode. I also think the story he told the guy with the beard was the real way he did it.
tomandlu, the need for the second body was because John had time to make it to the corner before the bike hit hime, and needed to see a body on the ground.
Also, "guy with a beard" was Anderson
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby ConMan » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:16 pm UTC

About the death scenes:
Spoiler:
The thing about the final explanation is that I think it was a bit of a fan-favourite explanation, and at that point Anderson and his group represents the slightly more obsessed side of the fandom, hence the whole "it can't have been right" thing was having a bit of fun at the fans' expense - especially when he goes crazy pointing out all the reasons why it *couldn't* work.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby tomandlu » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:04 am UTC

(no spoilers)

Well, the sign of 3 seems to have caused some controversy, but I have to say I loved every moment of it. A good mystery, very funny and surprisingly moving.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:41 am UTC

Whatwas the controversy about? I loved it too, shame there's only one left :(
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby tomandlu » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:23 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:Whatwas the controversy about? I loved it too, shame there's only one left :(


Spoiler:
Well, needless to say, the live-bloggers were caught out, but a lot of people seemed to think it was silly and/or boring - "Sherlock writes a speech - what next? Sherlock fills out a tax-return?" sort of thing...

What was your favourite bit? I'm torn between drunk Sherlock investigates and the moving bit of the speech where he reduces the guests to tears. The elephant in the room was a close third...
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Angua » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:58 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I couldn't figure out why Mrs Hudson let in the person for the case when they were doing the bachelor party and absolutely hammered. Also, what time did she come in, it must have been in the evening (so a random time).

The moving speech was nice though.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Felstaff » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:16 am UTC

'Dad, what's the name of Sherlock's assistant?'
'Watson'
'I SAID: "WHAT'S THE NAME OF SHERLOCK'S ASSISTANT?"'
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Sprocket » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:32 am UTC

Felstaff wrote:'Dad, what's the name of Sherlock's assistant?'
'Watson'
'I SAID: "WHAT'S THE NAME OF SHERLOCK'S ASSISTANT?"'

You are...you are the worst.

ConMan wrote:About the death scenes:
Spoiler:
The thing about the final explanation is that I think it was a bit of a fan-favourite explanation, and at that point Anderson and his group represents the slightly more obsessed side of the fandom, hence the whole "it can't have been right" thing was having a bit of fun at the fans' expense - especially when he goes crazy pointing out all the reasons why it *couldn't* work.

Well, also it was still not necessarily the real explanation.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Biliboy » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:24 pm UTC

I think one of the reasons I like this show, besides a love of British style humor, is that there are very few loose plot points flapping around unaddressed. Too many shows and movies seem to miss stuff like that.

Spoiler:
So I was watching last night with my sister, and as soon as the first 'Did you miss me" popped up I turned to her and said "guess who's alive?"

Also, totally called the blackmailer getting it, though I thought it'd be one of mycroft's snipers. Really guys, if you want to get into the blackmail business, have good life insurance.

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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby UniqueScreenname » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:44 am UTC

Rewatching The Last Vow to clear up some blurry aspects.
Spoiler:
Oh me yarm they gave away the ending in the very first scene! I am dumbfounded.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Angua » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:14 pm UTC

So, that was disappointing:

Spoiler:
Nothing Sherlocky about anything that he did. I guess figuring out there was something in one of the busts, and the thing about the car seats (though massive coinkidink that he dies in that car in an unrelated incident). Most of it, though, was just your generic spy stuff.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:52 pm UTC

The Final Problem

Spoiler:
Is apparently the trolley problem :roll:
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Angua » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

I feel like this one, and the first one of the season, were both disappointing in that they lacked much of an interesting mystery.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:15 pm UTC

The premise was deranged. Sherlock plots have always been on the implausible side, but still possible if you assume Sherlock is just infinitely clever and observant, and has enemies who just like to fuck with him. "She reprogrammes people" is pure science fiction, and seems out of place for this series.

Spoiler:
And the girl on the plane - if she was just in oojamaflip's head, who were they talking to on the phone?
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:57 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:The premise was deranged. Sherlock plots have always been on the implausible side, but still possible if you assume Sherlock is just infinitely clever and observant, and has enemies who just like to fuck with him. "She reprogrammes people" is pure science fiction, and seems out of place for this series.

Spoiler:
And the girl on the plane - if she was just in oojamaflip's head, who were they talking to on the phone?


Spoiler:
Eurus doing a different voice

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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby ahammel » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:42 am UTC

The Final Problem:
Spoiler:
So, to summarize Euros's plan:

1. Brainwash Morarty into recording some YouTube videos of himself being creepy.
2. Do nothing for five years.
3. Take over prison.
4. Sneak out of prison.
5. Have an emotional affair with John.
6. Wait for John's wife to get shot in an entirely unrelated incident.
7. Pretend to be John's therapist. Hope that he doesn't notice that she's also his girlfriend.
8. Go around to Sherlock's for chips. Tell him that some unrelated guy is a serial killer.
9. Hope that Sherlock, who is the most observant man in the world, doesn't notice that the chips lady is also John's therapist.
10. Tell John that his therapist is also his girlfriend, the chips lady, and Sherlock's sister.
11. Sneak back in to prison.
12. Wait for Sherlock, John, and Mycroft to come looking.
13. Torture them for a bit.
14. ?????
15. Fraternal affection!

This is the polar opposite of a Sherlock Holmes story. The solution is that an omnipotent evil force decided to do some impossible things for no reason. It's more like H. P. Lovecraft than Arthur Conan Doyle.
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Re: Sherunlocked

Postby Angua » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:11 am UTC

Yeah, only the second episode was kind of a Sherlock Holmes storyline with proper deduction, and then they even ruined that in the end.
'Look, sir, I know Angua. She's not the useless type. She doesn't stand there and scream helplessly. She makes other people do that.'
GNU Terry Pratchett

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ameretrifle
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Location: Canada (the flat bit)

Re: Sherunlocked

Postby ameretrifle » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:41 pm UTC

But bring up the idea of Holmes and/or Watson being anything but straight white British cis men, and suddenly he's all about the Unassailable Canon... Hypocritical little...

/toobittertoactuallywatch

(just admit you don't want to slash them, say you personally don't see it, stop trying to dodge the responsibility; it's quite a pathetic front when you're willing to change LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE)

(though there's still no excuse for that whining about Elementary)

(i will always remember)


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