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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:20 pm UTC

Quixotess wrote:Lost has always involved some sort of magic or speculative phenomena. It's not a cop-out: it's the genre.
Don't get me wrong, I'm okay with the supernatural aspects - the Infinite Improbability Drive is fine when it's explained what an Infinite Improbability Drive actually is.

Same goes with the hatch - we know that some character, somewhere, understands what's happening with the island, the numbers, the 108 minute button pushing, and that switch that Desmond ultimately flipped, because someone built it. It's just aggravating if it never gets explained.
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Re: LOST

Postby Steve Zissou » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:02 pm UTC

uncivlengr wrote:
Megatriorchis wrote:
segmentation fault wrote:
red_or_dead wrote:..and the show makes no sense if you haven't seen an episode yet...


actually it makes just as much sense even if youve watched from day 1.
Maybe you aren't paying enough attention?

Well, it makes sense as if you forget about all the dropped plot lines assume all these crazy things will come together into some coherent plot, but they just keep adding more and more things - to the point that they've had to invoke time travel to handle them all:

Whats the statue foot?
Why were they pushing the button? It was both a psychological experiment, and a means with which to discharge the electromagnetism that builds up within the island. Part of the reason why people seem to keep coming back to this, was that it wasn't as a grand of a reveal as everyone thought it would be. A better question would be, why did the countdown flash all the hieroglyphs upon its destruction? But more or less, this has been solved.
What happened when Desmond flipped that switch? Turned the key, you mean? Once again, a manual means with which to release the electromagnetic buildup. How this affects Desmond and his ability to see into the future hasn't been entirely explained yet, but it could have easily been a trigger of sorts.
Why is it so hard to get to/get off the island? Electromagnetism makes it hard to pinpoint the island's location. Plus, it seems that its been established that, in some manner, the island is in fact moving through time.
What's the deal with Libby being in the crazy house and giving Desmond a boat?
That old pirate ship? Crashed on the island. Compass probably stopped working because of electromagnetism. Not really more to it than that.
The shark? The polar bear? It's been established through the DHARMA initiative videos that there were a number of experiments performed upon animals. Why they experimented on sharks may not be important. The point is, things like the Polar Bear are more devices to explain DHARMA's attempts to explore the island's properties.
Jacob?
The voices?
Random dead people appearing?
The smoke monster? We know its a sentry. We know it was controlled in some manner by the DHARMA initiative. What it is, or why it was created would be good to know, but is largely inconsequential. It's served its purpose, really.

...and those are just the old ones at least a season or two old. I was really hoping that these things would be explained by something better than the island is "mysteriously magical" or some other nonsense, but that looks like what it'll end up being in a lot of cases.


Anyways, figured I'd point out some of the explanations that have been given already to some of these issues.
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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:18 pm UTC

Steve Zissou wrote:Anyways, figured I'd point out some of the explanations that have been given already to some of these issues.

If you're happy with, "it was a test," "It's to discharge the electromagnetism," then that's fine.

I, for one, am hoping for a bit more of a definitive explanation from the show itself, not your speculation or that of other viewers - for example, what these supposed "tests" and "experiments" were for, and what this "electromagnetism" is, why it needs to be discharged, and why the computer button pushing didn't result in the huge blast that the key-turning did.

Also, the writers have better not have built up this mysterious "smoke monster" up for three seasons to leave it at, "Meh, it's just a regular ol' smoke monster. Sure was spooky though, eh?"

It'd be like watching Star Wars without anyone ever mentioning "The Force" or what it does - you'd just be confused when Obi Wan waves his hand in front of peoples' faces, or when inanimate objects just start moving on their own.
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Re: LOST

Postby Steve Zissou » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:03 am UTC

uncivlengr wrote:
Steve Zissou wrote:Anyways, figured I'd point out some of the explanations that have been given already to some of these issues.

If you're happy with, "it was a test," "It's to discharge the electromagnetism," then that's fine.

I, for one, am hoping for a bit more of a definitive explanation from the show itself, not your speculation or that of other viewers - for example, what these supposed "tests" and "experiments" were for, and what this "electromagnetism" is, why it needs to be discharged, and why the computer button pushing didn't result in the huge blast that the key-turning did.


I'd agree with you, to a certain extent. The problem with J.J Abrams is that the way in which he sets up his reveals isn't in a way that spells things out very plainly. For anyone who's watched Cloverfield, he had a similar approach here as well. Take the electromagnetism, for example; the Failsafe event, where Desmond turned the key, made it clear why it needed to be discharged. One can assume that, with all the computers in the Swan, their purpose was to discharge of this electromagnetism safely, precisely so the rapid and dangerous discharge that occurred when Desmond turned the key doesn't happen. It's one of those things that isn't going to be spelled out, because it doesn't have to be - its evident enough with the information given, yet doesn't require viewers to pour through pages of forum speculation to arrive at such a conclusion. It's a choice made by Abrams in the way he directs, and I think he's made that clear, not only through the show, but his other projects as well.

Also, the writers have better not have built up this mysterious "smoke monster" up for three seasons to leave it at, "Meh, it's just a regular ol' smoke monster. Sure was spooky though, eh?"

It'd be like watching Star Wars without anyone ever mentioning "The Force" or what it does - you'd just be confused when Obi Wan waves his hand in front of peoples' faces, or when inanimate objects just start moving on their own.


I think you underestimate the ability of viewers to recognize what's going on in a situation without having things spelled out for them. If we're to continue with your Star Wars example, I think viewers would have a fairly easy time making that correlation between The Force, and the things Obi Wan and other Jedis can do. Sure, the added explanation is assuredly welcome, and enriches the story, but it's certainly not impossible to observe and come to a conclusion on what is going on.
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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:16 am UTC

Steve Zissou wrote:Take the electromagnetism, for example; the Failsafe event, where Desmond turned the key, made it clear why it needed to be discharged. One can assume that, with all the computers in the Swan, their purpose was to discharge of this electromagnetism safely, precisely so the rapid and dangerous discharge that occurred when Desmond turned the key doesn't happen.
None of that explains why there's any need for the discharge in the first place, what exactly the failsafe prevented from happening (considering the "failsafe" destroyed the station, it's not exactly that "safe") or why all this "electromagnetism" has disappeared after the key was turned, and why somebody didn't just turn the key 20 years ago. These questions have been brought up in the show itself - an entire season was basically devoted to the question of what the purpose of the hatch is, without ever answering it - so it's not like I'm being too nitpicky. You might accept that these things aren't explained whatsoever as Abram's "style" but it's just lazy in my books...

...that is, assuming all these questions aren't covered in upcoming episodes, which I highly doubt, considering they keep adding things like atomic bombs and time travel to the mix.
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Re: LOST

Postby Sana » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:14 am UTC

uncivlengr wrote:...that is, assuming all these questions aren't covered in upcoming episodes, which I highly doubt, considering they keep adding things like atomic bombs and time travel to the mix.

When Sayid explores The Swan in season 2 he remarks that the amount of concrete poured over something is not something he's heard of since Chernobyl. When Daniel finds the hydrogen bomb in season 5 and discovers it's leaking, he explains that it needs to be buried in concrete.

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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:32 am UTC

In reference of last night's episode:
Spoiler:
YAAAAY JIN IS ALIVE YAAAY. I really hope Sun isn't foolish enough to kill Ben now. I was so glad when I saw Jin, though. :D

Also, Daniel said that temporal displacement happens to people who have been exposed to the electromagnetism on the Island for longer periods of time, but Miles says he's never been to the Island. Maybe he actually was Chang's son, but was young when he left the Island and doesn't remember anything about it.
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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

Megatriorchis wrote:In reference of last night's episode:
Spoiler:
YAAAAY JIN IS ALIVE YAAAY. I really hope Sun isn't foolish enough to kill Ben now. I was so glad when I saw Jin, though. :D

Also, Daniel said that temporal displacement happens to people who have been exposed to the electromagnetism on the Island for longer periods of time, but Miles says he's never been to the Island. Maybe he actually was Chang's son, but was young when he left the Island and doesn't remember anything about it.

Spoiler:
Yes, I had my suspicions on both of those points confirmed last night. The thing that tipped me off to Jin being alive is the "recap" show they played before the season premiere - one of th writers alluded to the exploding freighter and said, "Jin allegedly died" or "supposedly Jin died in the blast" - something along those lines. Seemed like a pretty solid clue. Not sure how it'll change anything, but my girlfriend is apparently awfully fond of Jin, so that was good news for her!

Miles being Chang's son seemed fairly reasonable as well - based on the current list of characters and their ethnicities, the list of candidates is fairly small to begin with, but his apparent "powers" definitely make him the most likely.
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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:43 pm UTC

uncivlengr wrote:
Megatriorchis wrote:In reference of last night's episode:
Spoiler:
YAAAAY JIN IS ALIVE YAAAY. I really hope Sun isn't foolish enough to kill Ben now. I was so glad when I saw Jin, though. :D

Also, Daniel said that temporal displacement happens to people who have been exposed to the electromagnetism on the Island for longer periods of time, but Miles says he's never been to the Island. Maybe he actually was Chang's son, but was young when he left the Island and doesn't remember anything about it.

Spoiler:
Yes, I had my suspicions on both of those points confirmed last night. The thing that tipped me off to Jin being alive is the "recap" show they played before the season premiere - one of th writers alluded to the exploding freighter and said, "Jin allegedly died" or "supposedly Jin died in the blast" - something along those lines. Seemed like a pretty solid clue. Not sure how it'll change anything, but my girlfriend is apparently awfully fond of Jin, so that was good news for her!

Miles being Chang's son seemed fairly reasonable as well - based on the current list of characters and their ethnicities, the list of candidates is fairly small to begin with, but his apparent "powers" definitely make him the most likely.
Spoiler:
Yeah, I knew it was coming but I was still pretty happy about it. Do you think maybe he was able to be born on the Island because of his "powers"? Apparently, women there can't get pregnant or else they'll die. Or maybe the Island gave him his ability.
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Re: LOST

Postby Quixotess » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:28 am UTC

Spoiler:
Weird that Rousseau wouldn't recognize Jin then in the earlier seasons. If he's on the island in the same when as the rest of our heroes, that's good news for reuniting with some of them and maybe kicking some serious Surprise! Forgot About Me? motivation/ wrench-in-someone's-well-laid-plans throwing.

Also, holy shit about Sun! Everyone except Hurley is there now (except maybe Locke?) (and AHEM I guess Walt doesn't matter?), so Ben is making good progress! Time to phone up the freaky psychic woman! Can Sayid not get one episode without killing or nearly killing someone? It cannot be good for his psyche.

Also, wait, isn't Claire's mother meant to be dead? Or at least comatose?

That lawyer is creeping me out.
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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:44 am UTC

Quixotess wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, holy shit about Sun! Everyone except Hurley is there now (except maybe Locke?) (and AHEM I guess Walt doesn't matter?), so Ben is making good progress! Time to phone up the freaky psychic woman! Can Sayid not get one episode without killing or nearly killing someone? It cannot be good for his psyche.

Also, wait, isn't Claire's mother meant to be dead? Or at least comatose?
Spoiler:
Urm...there was something about Walt having been allowed to leave the Island without consequences. As in, he was supposed to leave, but the Oceanic 6 and Desmond and Locke weren't. So they have to go back. And maybe Claire's mom came out of her comatose state some time after the plane crashed.
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Re: LOST

Postby mercurythief » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:53 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I was disappointed when the canoe didn't disappear from underneath everyone during the time flash.

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Re: LOST

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:43 pm UTC

mercurythief wrote:
Spoiler:
I was disappointed when the canoe didn't disappear from underneath everyone during the time flash.


Yes, I wondered about that. By rights, they should have been plunged into the water where they sat. Blatant plot hole. :mrgreen:
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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:59 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
mercurythief wrote:
Spoiler:
I was disappointed when the canoe didn't disappear from underneath everyone during the time flash.


Yes, I wondered about that. By rights, they should have been plunged into the water where they sat. Blatant plot hole. :mrgreen:
Spoiler:
I don't see a plothole. I think we can probably expect the reason for that to be revealed when the time traveling stops.
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Re: LOST

Postby Mzyxptlk » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:25 pm UTC

Having watched the first 4 episodes of the new season today, I can confirm I am totally hooked again. The first two were a bit slow and uneventful, but the second two made up for that.
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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:10 am UTC

re: the canoe... that sort of thing happened a few times - like the ropes around Charlotte's hands when they were captured.

I don't really know how you can justify the things that they seem to take for granted in tv and movies - who decides that clothes go, but the ground your feet are touching stays? Why don't your feet, or a chunk of your small intestine accidentally stay behind? If you wrap your arms around a tree, does it go or stay?
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Re: LOST

Postby TheBeeCeeEmm » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:03 am UTC

I'm always hesitant when it comes to time travel plots, because time travel is SO EASY to mess up. I can suspend my disbelief for pretty much everything else, but I can't stand when someone does something in the past but it has no effect on the future.
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Re: LOST

Postby Mzyxptlk » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:29 pm UTC

TheBeeCeeEmm wrote:I'm always hesitant when it comes to time travel plots, because time travel is SO EASY to mess up. I can suspend my disbelief for pretty much everything else, but I can't stand when someone does something in the past but it has no effect on the future.

I've been thinking about this for a bit. For clarity's sake, let us label the time of the triggering of the time machine as time X, any time beyond that as time X+n and any time before that as time X-n, where n is any positive real number larger than 0.

Daniel Faraday states that they cannot change the past. This prevents their actions at time X-n from (directly or indirectly) changing time X. But surely that should also mean that any action they take at time X+n cannot change time X+n+1? Worse, any action they take at time X ("the present") cannot influence time X+n, which in turn implies the Lost universe is deterministic, in which every past and future event is set in stone, and nothing can be done to deviate from that course.

The problem is, having a cast of powerless passive characters is pretty boring, so it is desirable to avoid this. The only way I can think of is that time X is somehow a balancing point which is unique in all of history (presumably because it's the "start" of the time traveling). All events that have occured before time X are set in stone, and all events that will occur after time X are changeable. This seems like a pretty flimsy mechanism though.

Am I overthinking it all?
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Re: LOST

Postby Quixotess » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:40 pm UTC

I suppose (and time travel breaks my brain) that X can be defined as "the latest moment in chronological time that the characters have experienced." The farthest moment ahead they've gotten a peek at. So X is changeable.
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Re: LOST

Postby frezik » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:39 am UTC

Mzyxptlk wrote:The problem is, having a cast of powerless passive characters is pretty boring, so it is desirable to avoid this.


Alternatively, Desmond is "miraculously special" because he's the only one who isn't powerless like that.
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Re: LOST

Postby Stabable Offense » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:43 pm UTC

Daniel related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday or just coincidence?

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Re: LOST

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:06 pm UTC

I doubt it. They probably sat in a meeting room:

"Let's think of a scientisty sounding name."
"Faraday?"
"Bingo. Now to the pub."
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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:40 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:I doubt it. They probably sat in a meeting room:

"Let's think of a scientisty sounding name."
"Faraday?"
"Bingo. Now to the pub."
Are you kidding? Half the names on the show are namesakes of historical figures.
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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:44 am UTC

I think it was M. Faraday's well-known contributions in the field of electromagnetism that make the name an obvious choice, as it's an significant part of the mystery surrounding the island, the hatch, time travel, etc etc etc.
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Re: LOST

Postby BMW787 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:04 am UTC

Megatriorchis wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:I doubt it. They probably sat in a meeting room:

"Let's think of a scientisty sounding name."
"Faraday?"
"Bingo. Now to the pub."
Are you kidding? Half the names on the show are namesakes of historical figures.


Yeah such as :

John Locke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke_(Lost)

And Faraday http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Faraday
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Re: LOST

Postby the_bandersnatch » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:46 pm UTC

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Re: LOST

Postby uncivlengr » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:39 am UTC

Just a thought as I'm watching this week's episode: they're sure lucky with their popping back and forth across 30 years or so that a tree didn't just happen to grow up where they were standing in another time.
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Re: LOST

Postby Quixotess » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:05 am UTC

I have no television...ABC player isn't working anymore...none of the videos at cucirca are playing...someone PM me a way to watch this stupid show online!
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Re: LOST

Postby casiguapa » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:11 pm UTC

giving this thread a well deserved bump!

I curse ABC for depriving us of Lost this week, but I'm really looking forward to next week's episode!

Hats off to Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof for breathing new life into this.. S4 was great and S5 has surpassed S1 for me. I find I don't function very well when Lost is not on, I need my weekly dose of Benry and Richard Alpert!
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Re: LOST

Postby the_bandersnatch » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:35 am UTC

casiguapa wrote:S4 was great and S5 has surpassed S1 for me.


See, I thought this season has been the worst one yet. It's got so convoluted and illogical at some points I've struggled to sustain suspension of disbelief, not to mention keep interest (talking it over with friends and colleagues it seems I'm not the only one). Though the last two episodes have been better I feel; hopefully we're seeing a return to form.

One thing I've really disliked about this series is the "second" plane crash. It just seems to reduce the importance of the original crash and seems more about giving the writers a whole new bunch of redshirts to kill off. The original plane crash was meant to be the focal point of the series, the survivors were the audience's eyes to their adventure, in a sense. Confused, and trying to make sense of what was going while trying to survive and get rescued. That was, and should be, the core of the show. Now we've got most of the Oceanic lot dead, a handful rescued - but only temporarily, kinda (!) - and a whole new bunch of people introduced every other episode (can anyone tell me what was the point of Charlotte, and did anyone care when she died, really?). A similar thing happened in Battlestar Galactica and it suffered for it, especially towards the end.

Maybe I've just never recovered from the lame reasons given for the Oceanic Six's code of silence. That whole thing was terribly handled. Spend an entire series leading up to the answer of why the survivors are lying, and the answer turns out to be "some bad soldiers did some bad things, and though nearly everyone's dead now anyway, we decided to hush it up." I mean, it was the complete logical opposite of what any sane person would have done in that situation. Personally, I would have told the entire world's press about what went on, got the political and scientific establishments involved and ended the damn mysteries and powerplay once and for all, instead of doing exactly what Widmore and Ben wanted - maintaining the code of secret silence about the island.

I realise I've been complaining a lot but I really do like the show, I just hope the writers can get it back to where it needs to be. I'll shut up now :P
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Re: LOST

Postby casiguapa » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:07 am UTC

the_bandersnatch wrote:
casiguapa wrote:S4 was great and S5 has surpassed S1 for me.


See, I thought this season has been the worst one yet. It's got so convoluted and illogical at some points I've struggled to sustain suspension of disbelief, not to mention keep interest (talking it over with friends and colleagues it seems I'm not the only one). Though the last two episodes have been better I feel; hopefully we're seeing a return to form.

One thing I've really disliked about this series is the "second" plane crash. It just seems to reduce the importance of the original crash and seems more about giving the writers a whole new bunch of redshirts to kill off. The original plane crash was meant to be the focal point of the series, the survivors were the audience's eyes to their adventure, in a sense. Confused, and trying to make sense of what was going while trying to survive and get rescued. That was, and should be, the core of the show. Now we've got most of the Oceanic lot dead, a handful rescued - but only temporarily, kinda (!) - and a whole new bunch of people introduced every other episode (can anyone tell me what was the point of Charlotte, and did anyone care when she died, really?). A similar thing happened in Battlestar Galactica and it suffered for it, especially towards the end.

Maybe I've just never recovered from the lame reasons given for the Oceanic Six's code of silence. That whole thing was terribly handled. Spend an entire series leading up to the answer of why the survivors are lying, and the answer turns out to be "some bad soldiers did some bad things, and though nearly everyone's dead now anyway, we decided to hush it up." I mean, it was the complete logical opposite of what any sane person would have done in that situation. Personally, I would have told the entire world's press about what went on, got the political and scientific establishments involved and ended the damn mysteries and powerplay once and for all, instead of doing exactly what Widmore and Ben wanted - maintaining the code of secret silence about the island.

I realise I've been complaining a lot but I really do like the show, I just hope the writers can get it back to where it needs to be. I'll shut up now :P


I'm with you on the whole Oceanic code of silence thing, but I think that was to show that all of them are easily persuaded, from Locke who was told by Ben to keep it quiet, to Jack who decided to keep it quiet. Also, it's arguable that any of the six were actually a) sane or b) logical people. I mean, Sayid and Jack are renowned for making stupid decisions, Kate is so wishy-washy it's painful, and Sun had just lost her husband. Hurley always followed the group anyway and Aaron was just a little baby.

I think the point of Charlotte was that none of the people Widmore chose to find the island again were *random* like it was presented to them. All of them had, in one way or another, a connection to the place. Lapidus should have been the pilot for Oceanic 815, Daniel's mother is the one who leads everyone back to the Island, Charlotte was born there, Miles's dad worked in the Darhma Initiative.. all of them had links to the Island. Besides Charlotte is far less annoying that Paulo and Nikki.. I mean seriously, where the fuck did they come from?

I think the need for the second crash will be revealed eventually...the last episode really highlighted that it wasn't just a plot device or a means to get them back onto the Island.

There was only so much of the will they/won't they, survival in the jungle kind of thing they could really do. Two seasons of that was plentiful. After that people want to know "where did the others come from? Who built the hatch? Was the crash random, or caused by something else?, what are the whispering voices? Is Smokey good or evil? What happened to the Darhma Initiative? Why can't women give birth on the Island? How are sick people being healed on the Island?"

All these have been hinted at or answered already, and we're now going into the home stretch of the show. Could it have been done in 3 seasons? Probably, but it would've cut out a lot. It's interesting though, that the character of Henry Gale/Ben Linus was originally only a 3 episode guest-stint, which turned to 8 episode arc and now Benry is one of the pivotal characters of the show.

Stick with it! It's shaping up to be an awesome end to a really good season. There's only been a few episodes this season that I thought were just blah, compared to half of season 2 and most parts of s3.

Also, Richard Alpert is a reason to continue watching no matter how bad it gets.
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MikeBabaguh
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Re: LOST

Postby MikeBabaguh » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:11 am UTC

With all that's been explained/dropped this season, I think Richard Alpert is the last interesting mystery. A distant second would be the nature of the statue.

Also,
Spoiler:
I was really expecting Ben to die when he sought out the smoke monster, and was actually disappointed that he wasn't killed. It's not that I don't like the guy, although he has done some really evil things, I just felt that the character has sort of run its course.
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Re: LOST

Postby casiguapa » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:35 pm UTC

MikeBabaguh wrote:With all that's been explained/dropped this season, I think Richard Alpert is the last interesting mystery. A distant second would be the nature of the statue.

Also,
Spoiler:
I was really expecting Ben to die when he sought out the smoke monster, and was actually disappointed that he wasn't killed. It's not that I don't like the guy, although he has done some really evil things, I just felt that the character has sort of run its course.


I agree somewhat. Richard is definitely one of the last remaining mysteries. But we still know nowt about JACOB!
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MikeBabaguh
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Re: LOST

Postby MikeBabaguh » Mon May 04, 2009 11:37 pm UTC

Jacob's reveal should have been at the end of last season, when they show Claire sitting there with...her and Jack's father. It was a cop-out, sadly. The writers clearly didn't know what they wanted to do with Jacob's character yet, so they put Jack's dad in instead as a way of delaying it. I was very disappointed.
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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Thu May 07, 2009 2:18 am UTC

Oh me yarm Oh me yarm Oh me yarm

*Lostgasm*

Spoiler:
Well, I think my theory that Jacob is a magnificent bastard may or may not be confirmed next week! Woo!
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Re: LOST

Postby frezik » Thu May 07, 2009 4:28 pm UTC

Week after next. Next week is a recap episode, but we get two hours back-to-back after that. Jumping to conclusions again. It's a recap episode next week followed immediately by the two hour season finale.

Spoiler:
My current working theory on the fake Oceanic 815 is that both Ben and Widmore did it. The trouble I had with Widmore doing it is that it wasn't clear what he gained. It's not obvious that he could have known that the plane hit the island, and even if he was just chasing a possibility, that's a lot of money to spend on a wild coincidence. At the same time, while Ben seems to have a lot of off-island resources, it doesn't seem like he has enough to pull something of that magnitude.

However, it now looks that the Widmore-Ben fight is more of a civil war, and there's another group that they're both fighting against. This would be the group that asks "What lies under the shadow of the statue?". At some point after Oceanic 815 hit, Ben (or his agents) could have approached Widmore and, recognizing a common interest, worked together.
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Re: LOST

Postby Megatriorchis » Fri May 08, 2009 3:47 am UTC

frezik wrote:
Spoiler:
My current working theory on the fake Oceanic 815 is that both Ben and Widmore did it. The trouble I had with Widmore doing it is that it wasn't clear what he gained. It's not obvious that he could have known that the plane hit the island, and even if he was just chasing a possibility, that's a lot of money to spend on a wild coincidence. At the same time, while Ben seems to have a lot of off-island resources, it doesn't seem like he has enough to pull something of that magnitude.

However, it now looks that the Widmore-Ben fight is more of a civil war, and there's another group that they're both fighting against. This would be the group that asks "What lies under the shadow of the statue?". At some point after Oceanic 815 hit, Ben (or his agents) could have approached Widmore and, recognizing a common interest, worked together.
Spoiler:
Your theory raises another question. Why do the "Shadow of the Statue" people want the Island? I'm thinking that maybe they were the original owners (as in, they were there before the Black Rock got there) and they've been trying to get it back ever since Jacob got into power (maybe Jacob and Richard were on the Black Rock?). So maybe Jacob wants it for personal reasons, like how Benry does, and maybe the Shadow of the Statue people want it because they were there first.

And maybe the smoke monster is just a magnificent bastard who gets a kick out of messing with people. Hey! Maybe s/he's behind all of this crap! (It would be great if that's true...)
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Re: LOST

Postby SlyReaper » Mon May 11, 2009 2:42 pm UTC

I reckon Jacob is the black smoke monster. I'm calling it now. :P
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Re: LOST

Postby casiguapa » Tue May 12, 2009 10:49 am UTC

I'm calling it that Jacob was alive as a real person in one of the iterations of time, and that now he uses "things and people" to communicate : Christian Shepherd, Smokey etc etc
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Re: LOST

Postby crowey » Wed May 13, 2009 11:19 pm UTC

My thoughts:
Spoiler:
Shadow of the statue people were the original islanders, with the weird egyptian-ish religion (the whole statue in one of the time jumps looked ancient egyptian style, and the hyroglyphs and the Anubis stuff over the smoke monster under the temple). At some point the shadow of the statue people morphed into the modern hostiles/others and gradually moved away from the original island life, eventually living in the Dharma village and having technology-miles from the living off the land nomadic types the others seem to be in the timejumps.
Jacob is some kind of immortal or godlike person (like Rishard seems to be). Actually maybe Jacob and Richard are the same person, I can't remember if Richard is involved in or out of sight for the jacob bits in the previos seasons. Anyway...Jacob the original Island god, the statue is of him, etc. Some time around when Dharma arrived, he was usurped/enslaved somehow and is incarcerated in the shadow of the statue. He is mostly powerless, but has some ability left and this is what triggered the new crash people to ask about what lies in the shadow, and is what Locke hears when the island tells him to do something.


Or something.


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