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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:52 am UTC

Well, yes, they're moving things with their minds, so I'm not expecting hard science. (Also, I have to suspect Tolkein would make for a pretty borring t.v. series, so I'm not hoping for that either)

Plant and sand bending are specialised skills, but I'm pretty sure Toph could bend sand (although she didn't like it because she uses earth bending to see), and Katara could bend perfume no problem, so I think they fall within the basic skill. I suppose metal bending could be more of the same, but so far it seems Toph is the only one to ever do that. Mean while, healing and lighting bending seem to be taking things a step further. I mean, there are many different styles of drawing, going from graphite to chalk might be like going from water bending to plant bending, while drawing to oragami might be like what water bending is to healing. (My punctuation seems to have gotten away from me, terrribly sorry.) That's just the way it seems to me.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:55 am UTC

Toph did bend sand once that I recall:
Spoiler:
While trying to keep the library from sinking, she changed the sand below her feet into rock, presumably for firmer footing.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 am UTC

Puppet bending (bending the water inside a living creature in order to move the creature itself) has been stated to not be a "specialized subset" of waterbending in the way healing is. Instead, it's just a very advanced form.

If you imagined traditional waterbending as a path, healing would be a parallel or offshoot path, puppet-bending would just be far along the waterbending path.

Sand bending isn't specialized or advanced at all, but doing it the way those sendbenders was doing it was implied to be "more like an airbender", so probably a bit of a knack.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:51 am UTC

Stated where? Implied where? I'm pretty much caught up with the series now and I don't recall any discussion of the mechanics of either puppetry or sand-bending. I'll concede healing as a specialized subset, but I don't see any parallels in the other three disciplines. Puppetry ≡ Lightning ≡ Metal bending, advanced techniques.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:47 pm UTC

The entries for the various bending styles on wikipedia, which are sourced to various interviews with the creators.

Specifically, they said that each bending style has a specialized secondary skill, and that for Fire, it's Lightning, for Water, it's healing, and for Earth, it's magnetism.

Not metal-bending, mind, magnetism. What the Dai Li were doing with their gauntlets apparently qualifies, as does Bumi climbing walls like a spider. I think metalbending is just a hyperadvanced form of that, but I'm not clear.

They've never said what Air's is.

They mentioned puppet-bending as something that really, really skilled waterbenders could do.

Sand bending I'm not as sure about.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Geekthras » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:19 pm UTC

Metalbending is just being clever enough to figure out that metal = rock.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:39 pm UTC

Gah! No. There are elements that are metals and there are elements that are not metals. If you define "earth" as "rocks, stones and dirt" then you are excluding metals.

Metalbending is a logical extension of earthbending IFF "earth" is defined as as "inorganic, nonliquid things that make up the ground".
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:42 pm UTC

Geekthras wrote:Metalbending is just being clever enough to figure out that metal = rock.


Actually, as I understand it, it's being clever enough to figure out that there are tiny, earth-based impurities in metal that can be used to manipulate the metal as a whole, and that toph can only do it because she can "see" those impurities, and is a strong enough earthbender to twist metal based on such a tiny hand-hold.

At least that's what I got from the images they showed, and the Guru's little speech.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Geekthras » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:41 pm UTC

Thanks for rephrasing. I meant equivalent to, instead of equal to. The metal they use in the Avatar Universe is obviously rock enough to bend, but only if you're very clever.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby william » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:36 am UTC

Belial wrote:pulled a Commodus-from-Gladiator

Commodus (probably) actually did that to Marcus Aurelius in real life.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:52 am UTC

I vaguely remember reading that, but Gladiator was fresher in my mind, and I wasn't sure how accurate my memory was beyond that.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby une see » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:03 am UTC

Episode 4 was pretty falonking awesome.

Spoiler:
IROH ISN'T FAT AND FLUFFY ANYMORE! I kind of miss his marshmallow-y old body. But seriously, his eventual jailbreak is going to be quite the shit. :) (Iroh...what a BAMF!) Um, Sokka was cool. He is going to kick ass on the Day of Black Sun, with his newfound sword skills, intelligence, creativity, and all. Whatever happened to his boomerang, though?

And the reappearance of the Secret White Lotus Society or whatever it's called is kind of exciting.


Did a new animated short come out along with the new episode? Because I've been searching for it but haven't found anything yet.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:47 am UTC

I did not see a new short with episod 4. Was there one with episode 3?
Spoiler:
Maybe the first two had them because they were so sad.
I forgot about magnetism, that makes more sense than metal bending. Tho', I am left to wonder how Toph could manipulate the meteorite pebble with such ease. The stuff could potentially be a huge help to the Earth Kingdom if there's more of it.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:05 am UTC

It'd be funny if Sokka had found a boomerang master.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Geekthras » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:46 pm UTC

That would be amazing. Anyway, if you paid attention, they showed all those shorts before any season three eps came out. So I think that's all for now.



Also, one of my friends was over for a book club at my house (I wasn't involved... long story) and I was sitting in the TV room, watching Avatar and playing with my tablet. So one of the people he invited (I didn't know them) came over to me and sat down on the sofa and watched the episode while discussing Season 3 episodes. Pretty feracking awesome that a random stranger would start talking to me because I was watching Avatar...
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Jesse » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:06 am UTC

Man, that new episode was horrible:

Spoiler:
Hey, let's throw in as many anime cliches as possible, and give all the evil guys a sad little story to explain why they are shitty people. Oh and let's put a random guy with a third eye and some weird telekinetic powers in there too, because that makes sense at all... Last episode was so so good, why did they have to go and do this?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:37 pm UTC

Spoiler:
To be fair, only the *redeemable* villains got backstories. Azula got "My mother never loved m...no, wait, just kidding, I'm actually just a horrible sociopath. Tee hee."

But yeah, that episode was kindof...blah.

I don't think the assassin is telekinetic, though, I think he just has a really weird form of firebending that involves igniting the atmosphere in a concentrated burst.

Let's just hope this was a passing tribute to the shitty beach episode in every anime ever, and that it can just be forgotten.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Geekthras » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:03 pm UTC

Kind of like
Spoiler:
Roy mustang
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby une see » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:04 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Yeah. It kind of sucked. It started out well though: I laughed a little (maybe a lot) when those two old ladies were showing them the house, and Zuko almost threw up. Hmmm...but then the rest of it was...lackluster at best. Plus, I kind of wanted to see more of you know...the main characters. Aang Gaang? I actually like Zuko as a character, but all the Fire Nation kids just fucking pissed me off in this episode. And those "character revelations" were so, so forced. And even though I like Maiko as a pairing, Mai and Zuko's interactions were really pretty pointless/stupid.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:37 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Technically, dude is shooting things out of his "third eye". Yay eastern culture.

But the whole "Fire nation children have issues" thing was annoying to watch. It's like the writers are trying to really drive home the "Fire Nation is an oppressive state for children". Blech.

The weird part is I like those characters less now that I had to watch them go through a whole beach thing.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:31 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I didn't see where their being from the Fire Nation came into play. It was a bit of a fluff episode, but considering how dark the story has gotten, I think that's fair.
Having the "bad guys" be real people is part of what makes the show great. When was the last time a cartoon series had really well developed villains?
Poor angry Zuko :cry:

Is it just me or does the third eye guy look like someone?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Geekthras » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:18 am UTC

He is in fact a person... :P
Yes he is very familiar. I'll think. For some reason I kept thinking "Argos Mercenary!" whenever I saw him, for no reason whatsoever.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Bakemaster » Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:20 am UTC

I liked it. I even set the still shot at the end in front of the fire as my background. It was a bit cliche, but I laughed.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Gadren » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:17 am UTC

Spoiler:
Dear god that was a messed up episode. I don't think that any other episode can be called "filler" or "fanservice" after this one. Apologies to fangirls, but I just can't see why you get all excited over the most emo, brooding, angsty characters. It was rather fun to see Azula try not to be evil, but the episode suffered from Moral Conclusion Syndrome -- the pitfall of having kids' shows end with an important moral lesson instead of just being fun or interesting.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Jesse » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:58 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
I didn't see where their being from the Fire Nation came into play. It was a bit of a fluff episode, but considering how dark the story has gotten, I think that's fair.
Having the "bad guys" be real people is part of what makes the show great. When was the last time a cartoon series had really well developed villains?
Poor angry Zuko :cry:

Is it just me or does the third eye guy look like someone?


Spoiler:
But that's the thing. It's got such well developed villains and then just tacks this in. "Let's have them all talk about their horrible backgrounds in order to adds more depth." This isn't good character development, it's tacky narrative. Prior to this everything has developed slowly and through characters thoughts and actions. This was just done so poorly. Also I didn't recognise the scriptwriter's name, is she new?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:29 pm UTC

Spoiler:
The talking around the campfire took all of about 3 minutes. It was a bit rushed and a bit clumsy, but it was one of the first time the fire nation characters really talked to eachother. I mean, the audience knows why Zuko is angry and emo, but Mai and Ty Lee probably don't.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Jesse » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:59 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
The talking around the campfire took all of about 3 minutes. It was a bit rushed and a bit clumsy, but it was one of the first time the fire nation characters really talked to eachother. I mean, the audience knows why Zuko is angry and emo, but Mai and Ty Lee probably don't.


Spoiler:
Yeah, because it definitely owuldn't be a big thing in the fire nation to see the prince exiled. I bet no-one knew at all....

I liked Azula's bit and I liked it when Zuko was doing his "I'm angry" bit; it was the backgroud for Mai and Ty Lee that was incredibly clumsy and tacked on and just so very horrible. And the fact that it took all of three minutes doesn't make it good, it's one of the bad things. Zuko has two seasons worth of backstory that slowly developed, even Azula has been given plenty of backstory through the last season, again slowly and carefully developed. Mai and Ty Lee's were just thrown out there as fast as they could at the end of the episode."
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:24 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Well, Ty Lee's was tacked on. Mai just confirmed something that you probably could have inferred from previous scenes: She was the daughter of a politician. She was largely ignored or kept out of the way.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:43 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, Ty Lee's was tacked on. Mai just confirmed something that you probably could have inferred from previous scenes: She was the daughter of a politician. She was largely ignored or kept out of the way.

Spoiler:
I think the dude who blows things up with his mind through the third eye is much more interesting. Guy is half made out of metal too! Is he an Iron Man? Someone quickly make a Black Sabbath Iron Man video for him.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Aleril » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:02 pm UTC

Am I the only one that thought:

Spoiler:
Ty Lee has 6 sisters that look JUST LIKE HER.


THATS GOD DAMN HOT.


Because somehow, I dont think I am.

Spoiler:
But I find that the pasts of each of the characters show a multi-sidedness to each one, other than just "Im bad, you're good" motif that so many cartoons go with. Also, a theory I came up with is that Lu Ten isnt dead, but one of the first Victims of Long Feng's brainwashing, and became an earth soldier, becoming "Dead" to the fire kingdom.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Jesse » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:14 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Also, that eye guy is half-metal, right? Can't Toph just 'bend' him then?

I don't know, I think the whole campfire thing was just "Guys, we are doing backstory now. Quick, everyone get a backstory and talk about it" rather than us making it an important part of the narrative. I think I would have been more able to accept it if this whole series hadn't been so filler-ish and disappointing so far save the previous episode which was badass, and set me up for more anticipated badassery but I got this instead.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby ProletarianAvenger » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:04 pm UTC

Jesster wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, that eye guy is half-metal, right? Can't Toph just 'bend' him then?

I don't know, I think the whole campfire thing was just "Guys, we are doing backstory now. Quick, everyone get a backstory and talk about it" rather than us making it an important part of the narrative. I think I would have been more able to accept it if this whole series hadn't been so filler-ish and disappointing so far save the previous episode which was badass, and set me up for more anticipated badassery but I got this instead.


Spoiler:
I imagine that its just his armor thats metal. I don't its some kind of wolverine-metal skeleton, type of deal. I would also venture to guess that toph can't bend metal faster than he can make her explode. Speaking of that, I would guess that he's just focusing heat in a single area, rather than letting out an open flame.


Spoiler:
Okita wrote:It'd be funny if Sokka had found a boomerang master.


I was really hoping he'd learn fire bending, even though he was from a water bending tribe. It would start things off quickly for Ang's fire training.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby pieaholicx » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:18 pm UTC

I've come to the realization that I really need to catch up on the season 3 stuff. I've only seen the first and third episodes of it. I should probably look into getting all the older stuff on DVD too to see what I've missed of it.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Girl™ » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:48 pm UTC

I secretly hope that there's so much filler because they're going to stretch it out into a fourth season. :O
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:51 am UTC

If they keep the theme of naming the seasons/"books" after elements then he'll have to master fire at the end of this season, which implies a fourth season even if it's not "wind", right?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Aleril » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:59 am UTC

Girl™ wrote:I secretly hope that there's so much filler because they're going to stretch it out into a fourth season. :O



Same, and Avatar filler is fun... just no more Zuko/Mei/Ty Lee sob stories. Such a bad episode DX
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby ProletarianAvenger » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:06 am UTC

Aleril wrote:
Girl™ wrote:I secretly hope that there's so much filler because they're going to stretch it out into a fourth season. :O



Same, and Avatar filler is fun... just no more Zuko/Mei/Ty Lee sob stories. Such a bad episode DX


Mostly because it was so poorly written. At least they got that out of the way, so they can't drag THAT on.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:56 am UTC

ProletarianAvenger wrote:
Jesster wrote:
Spoiler:
Also, that eye guy is half-metal, right? Can't Toph just 'bend' him then?

I don't know, I think the whole campfire thing was just "Guys, we are doing backstory now. Quick, everyone get a backstory and talk about it" rather than us making it an important part of the narrative. I think I would have been more able to accept it if this whole series hadn't been so filler-ish and disappointing so far save the previous episode which was badass, and set me up for more anticipated badassery but I got this instead.


Spoiler:
I imagine that its just his armor thats metal. I don't its some kind of wolverine-metal skeleton, type of deal. I would also venture to guess that toph can't bend metal faster than he can make her explode. Speaking of that, I would guess that he's just focusing heat in a single area, rather than letting out an open flame.

spoiler]


Spoiler:
I bet they're prosthetics, which is why he firebends whith is forehead.


Also, Jesster, you are whiny. The need for solid drama is inversely proportionate to the number of explosions a film features.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:24 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
I bet they're prosthetics, which is why he firebends whith is forehead.

Everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:29 am UTC

Bakemaster wrote:If they keep the theme of naming the seasons/"books" after elements then he'll have to master fire at the end of this season, which implies a fourth season even if it's not "wind", right?


They're supposedly only signed for three seasons total. It's supposed to end after this one.
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