Unpopular Musical Opinions

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iwanttobelieve
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:21 pm UTC

Chances are that if you've never enjoyed live music and prefer your favorite bands studio work much more...You listen to SHITTY MUSIC. Not because it is badly written, or has boring chord progressions, or sloppy lyrics, but because the band that wrote it can't even play it. I think that if an artist cannot play something as well as they were able to record it with all that mixing (aka faking it) then they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.

Also, I hate when bands whose live performance of songs is so boring that they need visual entertainment to cover this up. I'm not just talking about lights and pyrotechnics, I'm also talking about all the going crazy, thrashing around, over the top headbanging. I have no problem with ACTUAL movement to the music (The National or mewithoutYou), but for most people it is fake and put on.

Go listen to some David Bazan, then go see him live.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sje46 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:39 pm UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:Chances are that if you've never enjoyed live music and prefer your favorite bands studio work much more...You listen to SHITTY MUSIC. Not because it is badly written, or has boring chord progressions, or sloppy lyrics, but because the band that wrote it can't even play it. I think that if an artist cannot play something as well as they were able to record it with all that mixing (aka faking it) then they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.
I guess the Beatles were a shitty band, and their music isn't worth listening to, then? That sucks, because I really enjoyed listening to them.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:09 pm UTC

It seems like the Beatles are like the Godwin's Law of this thread.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:16 pm UTC

I was going to post something like that but my version was more angry.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Jesse » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:56 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:Chances are that if you've never enjoyed live music and prefer your favorite bands studio work much more...You listen to SHITTY MUSIC. Not because it is badly written, or has boring chord progressions, or sloppy lyrics, but because the band that wrote it can't even play it. I think that if an artist cannot play something as well as they were able to record it with all that mixing (aka faking it) then they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.
I guess the Beatles were a shitty band, and their music isn't worth listening to, then?


We've been through this, the answer to your question is yes.

:P

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:20 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:Chances are that if you've never enjoyed live music and prefer your favorite bands studio work much more...You listen to SHITTY MUSIC. Not because it is badly written, or has boring chord progressions, or sloppy lyrics, but because the band that wrote it can't even play it. I think that if an artist cannot play something as well as they were able to record it with all that mixing (aka faking it) then they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.
I guess the Beatles were a shitty band, and their music isn't worth listening to, then? That sucks, because I really enjoyed listening to them.


Their music has never been entertaining enough for me to listen to live versions of it. Can they not play it live? I guess they do suck, then.

Edit: Unpopular music opinion #76: the Beatles are really lame. (I guess this has already been discussed though. I'm gonna go read that and delight in the people who agree with me.)

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sje46 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:36 pm UTC

It seems to be an arbitrary distinction of what's good or bad music. There's a lot of music that can't even be played by humans, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable or good songwriting. It's kinda like those snobs who say that a singer can't be a good singer if they don't write their own music; however, they have no complaints if an actor do more improv-style acting instead of just sticking with the script.

It's snobbery, and thick-headed snobbery at that.

And yes, iwanttobelieve, it is generally difficult to play Tomorrow Never Knows and I Am The Walrus live.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:01 pm UTC

KOO KOO K'CHOOO

Anyway, music is a matter of perspective and opinion. That's why it's so goddamn perfect for snobbery, bullshiterry and flaming.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Роберт » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:54 pm UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:I think that if an artist cannot play something [...] they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.

Gosh, I supposed Mozart, Bach, et al were a bunch of lame-wads. They couldn't even play what they wrote.

???

I'm not a piano player, but I've written pieces for the piano. Would it automatically be a better piece if I was able to play piano?
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:27 am UTC

Роберт wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:I think that if an artist cannot play something [...] they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.

Gosh, I supposed Mozart, Bach, et al were a bunch of lame-wads. They couldn't even play what they wrote.



I'm not even going to answer this, because that is not what I'm talking about.

Роберт wrote:I'm not a piano player, but I've written pieces for the piano. Would it automatically be a better piece if I was able to play piano?


Yes.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:35 am UTC

Okay, wait, he says that by your logic, Mozart's music is bad cause Mozart can't perform it. You say that's not what you're talking about.
Then he says that by your logic, Роберт's music is bad cause Роберт can't perform it. You agree with that.

??
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:11 am UTC

Midnight wrote:Okay, wait, he says that by your logic, Mozart's music is bad cause Mozart can't perform it. You say that's not what you're talking about.
Then he says that by your logic, Роберт's music is bad cause Роберт can't perform it. You agree with that.

??


Mozart can't play his music because it takes more than one dude. Much like one guy can't play all the parts of a band live.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:42 am UTC

Mozart didn't write the pieces for himself nor did he claim the perfomance part of the music. He just credited himself for having written it. Which is perfectly fine. Besides, he first of all was a composer, a writer not a performer.

Does writing music for other people make you a worse writer? Not really.
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Interviewer: Some people say they can’t understand your writing even after they read it two or three times. What approach would you suggest for them?

William Faulkner: Read it four times.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby achan1058 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:16 pm UTC

Microscopic cog wrote:Mozart didn't write the pieces for himself nor did he claim the perfomance part of the music. He just credited himself for having written it. Which is perfectly fine. Besides, he first of all was a composer, a writer not a performer.
Besides, in those days, you tend to conduct your own work in your premier, hence "performing it". Mozart most likely also played the soloist part of his piano concertos.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:30 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:
Microscopic cog wrote:Mozart didn't write the pieces for himself nor did he claim the perfomance part of the music. He just credited himself for having written it. Which is perfectly fine. Besides, he first of all was a composer, a writer not a performer.
Besides, in those days, you tend to conduct your own work in your premier, hence "performing it". Mozart most likely also played the soloist part of his piano concertos.


Most likely yeah, which makes Mozart even better!
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Роберт » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:18 pm UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:
Midnight wrote:Okay, wait, he says that by your logic, Mozart's music is bad cause Mozart can't perform it. You say that's not what you're talking about.
Then he says that by your logic, Роберт's music is bad cause Роберт can't perform it. You agree with that.

??


Mozart can't play his music because it takes more than one dude. Much like one guy can't play all the parts of a band live.

Hmmm... and you think the classical composers could have played every single part they wrote well on all those different instruments?

Your opinion is unpopular because it is idiotic.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:56 pm UTC

But Steely Dan used session musicians & touring musicians... so do they suck?
Or the Beach Boys?
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:56 am UTC

Роберт wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:
Midnight wrote:Okay, wait, he says that by your logic, Mozart's music is bad cause Mozart can't perform it. You say that's not what you're talking about.
Then he says that by your logic, Роберт's music is bad cause Роберт can't perform it. You agree with that.

??


Mozart can't play his music because it takes more than one dude. Much like one guy can't play all the parts of a band live.

Hmmm... and you think the classical composers could have played every single part they wrote well on all those different instruments?

Your opinion is unpopular because it is idiotic.

...
Midnight wrote:But Steely Dan used session musicians & touring musicians... so do they suck?
Or the Beach Boys?

What the fuck? What don't you guys get about this? Everyone else in this conversation isn't this thick. I'm opting not to answer because you can: re read the last page and think about it, and if no breakthroughs are made, phone a friend.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sje46 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:40 am UTC

The problem is that you're disregarding not just songs, but entire bands and even entire genres of music based off an arbitrary requirement.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:20 pm UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:I think that if an artist cannot play something as well as they were able to record it with all that mixing (aka faking it) then they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.
That logic completely outlaws listening to music that involves sampling and stuff, like BT. Listen to this. BT can't play those instruments. He just sampled people playing those instruments, and turned it into a fucking awesome song.

iwanttobelieve wrote:
Midnight wrote:But Steely Dan used session musicians & touring musicians... so do they suck?

What the fuck? What don't you guys get about this?



So what don't YOU get about this?
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:42 pm UTC

Midnight wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:I think that if an artist cannot play something as well as they were able to record it with all that mixing (aka faking it) then they should NOT be considered talented, worth listening to, or anything like that. I mean, shit. They can't even play what they wrote.
That logic completely outlaws listening to music that involves sampling and stuff, like BT. Listen to this. BT can't play those instruments. He just sampled people playing those instruments, and turned it into a fucking awesome song.

iwanttobelieve wrote:
Midnight wrote:But Steely Dan used session musicians & touring musicians... so do they suck?

What the fuck? What don't you guys get about this?



So what don't YOU get about this?


I'm confused? Did he write the stuff? Is it all samples from other people's songs?

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:40 pm UTC

He wrote the stuff. He made other people play it. For example, that song has a 110-piece orchestra, which he took and fucked around with until it became a glitchy masterpiece. He can't actually play any of it, though. If you saw BT live, there would be no 110-piece orchestra, just a couple of CDs or whatever.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Dream » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:28 am UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:What don't you guys get about this? Everyone else in this conversation isn't this thick.

You know that laugh the Joker laughs, when he's walking into the crime boss meeting before he does the pencil trick? That's the laugh I laughed as I read up to this post...
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Halleck » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:37 pm UTC

sje46 wrote:I guess the Beatles were a shitty band, and their music isn't worth listening to, then?

Exactly! I accept the revolutionary nature of the Beatles, but I don't enjoy listening to their music. In this musical environment their music seems so far behind the times that I'd rather listen to Chopin. The Beatles have a few catchy melodies, but no song development. The music just sits there.


On the note about sampling and playing music live, I believe that there are genres where that is acceptable. I don't know if there are any Electro bands that can play their stuff live, but that's not the point. However when a rock band or a pop group tours, they should be able to play their stuff to the level they preform in the studio. There are two reasons I can think of that they couldn't play their stuff live (with the help of a backup/tour band): their music is too complicated, and therefore to crappy for anyone to want to see them live anyway, or their music is fake; the artist(s) have no talent and have simply used a good audio tech to make them sound good.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:33 am UTC

Midnight wrote:He wrote the stuff. He made other people play it. For example, that song has a 110-piece orchestra, which he took and fucked around with until it became a glitchy masterpiece. He can't actually play any of it, though.
That's cool.
If you saw BT live, there would be no 110-piece orchestra, just a couple of CDs or whatever.
That isn't. I really wouldn't want to see it.

But this conversation started on the topic of whether bands who go and actually play live shows should be able to play them or not. My original statements were too broad, I'm sizing them down from "If a band can't play live they suck" to "If a band tries to play live and can't, they suck as musicians."

Also, the amount that one band may suck doesn't necessarily affect how entertaining/fun their music is. I've enjoyed listening to many music-makers who aren't necessarily musicians (some local bands come to mind), and I've also enjoyed bands who write crappy music but are also really good live (Pillar. Don't judge me. I've never liked them and never will. In 2006 they toured with The Chariot, and they were very good live. Ask anyone else who hates their music but has seen them live.)

Also, Dream, I'm not sure what you were getting at with the joker laugh, but I think I'm hurt.

If any one has anything to say, I will now clear up anything not clear/obnoxiously defend my statements because I'm too proud to admit I'm wrong. But I'm not wrong.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Dream » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:53 am UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:Also, Dream, I'm not sure what you were getting at with the joker laugh, but I think I'm hurt.

What was I getting at? That you condescendingly referred to a bunch of sensible people on this thread as thick, and implied they were thick merely for disagreeing with you. On opinion at issue, your ideas are demonstrably foolish and ill informed. You yourself have since backpedalled from your earlier pronouncements.

Try to hang on to this very simple idea, and consider it every time you're about to criticise someone's artistic endeavour: If your criticism implies that an entire strand of cultural history is without merit, it's bullshit.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:18 am UTC

sje46 wrote:The problem is that you're disregarding not just songs, but entire bands and even entire genres of music based off an arbitrary requirement.


I once visited a music forum that had a particular member with a very... interesting way to define good music. He said that a given song is good only if it can be played on a solo piano and still sound good. I.e. every element that does not consist of pure melody is entirely dismissable, and any music that does not depend entirely on melody is necessarily worthless. I don't know if he was a troll, but he said that with a straight face.

I once believed that was the most idiotic way a person could listen to music, but now I'm willing to revise that belief.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:22 am UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:But this conversation started on the topic of whether bands who go and actually play live shows should be able to play them or not. My original statements were too broad, I'm sizing them down from "If a band can't play live they suck" to "If a band tries to play live and can't, they suck as musicians."


Well, congratulations for coming down with a bombastic statement of Major Unpopularity ("If you don't like live music, then you listen to SHITTY MUSIC"), and then promptly dismantling it completely when the heat was too much to handle. That was epic.

By the way, by "sizing down" your statement, you're contradicting your view on the Beatles. After all, the fact is that they didn't play live because they couldn't, but because they didn't want to. And even then, their rooftop performance showed they could hold up extremely well after all that time. Therefore, by your own arguments, the Beatles weren't lame musicians.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:40 am UTC

Dream wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:Try to hang on to this very simple idea, and consider it every time you're about to criticise someone's artistic endeavour: If your criticism implies that an entire strand of cultural history is without merit, it's bullshit.

Except dada. Ugh.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Роберт » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:03 pm UTC

Midnight wrote:
Dream wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:Try to hang on to this very simple idea, and consider it every time you're about to criticise someone's artistic endeavour: If your criticism implies that an entire strand of cultural history is without merit, it's bullshit.

Except dada. Ugh.

Wikipedia wrote:The movement influenced later styles like the avant-garde and downtown music movements, and groups including surrealism, Nouveau réalisme, pop art, Fluxus and punk rock.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:07 pm UTC

'Twas a joke. I could actually talk about elements in art history I hate, but that'd be unpopular art opinions.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Роберт » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:57 pm UTC

Midnight wrote:'Twas a joke. I could actually talk about elements in art history I hate, but that'd be unpopular art opinions.

I'm not sure what was going on with my sarcasm detector. I think its battery was low and it misidentified the speaker when creating the probability tables.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:10 pm UTC

Oh, and as far at the whole "I wouldn't want to see BT live cause it'd be him messing around with CDs and shit"--I beg of you, look up Daft Punk live. I've seen and played a lot of shows with musicians who aren't very good live, and musicians who have a ton of charisma and stage presence, and are generally awesome and fun live.
Daft punk, two guys in robot suits in a glass pyramid just remixing versions of their own songs, takes the cake by far. Best live show I've ever seen.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TaintedDeity » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:12 am UTC

It might not be a conventional instrument, but mixing songs/beats etc on the fly sure as hell takes as much skill as playing an instrument. You have to know your shit.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Dream » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:32 am UTC

I believe I've posted before: Prince Jammy at the Controls.

And unobstructed rhythm, without words, a naked dance rhythm.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby iwanttobelieve » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:16 am UTC

Dream wrote:
iwanttobelieve wrote:Also, Dream, I'm not sure what you were getting at with the joker laugh, but I think I'm hurt.

What was I getting at? That you condescendingly referred to a bunch of sensible people on this thread as thick, and implied they were thick merely for disagreeing with you. On opinion at issue, your ideas are demonstrably foolish and ill informed. You yourself have since backpedaled from your earlier pronouncements.


I was specifically pointing out two people as thick for attempting to argue about things that weren't being discussed. We were talking about bands playing live, they were saying my statements were incorrect because they had examples of bands who don't play live.

Once the discussion moved away from bands, I specified it as such, and then backpedaled and defined them as being lame as all-around musicians instead of just sucking all together.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Dream » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:29 pm UTC

iwanttobelieve wrote:they had examples of bands who don't play live.

Yeah, that was the foolish and ill informed part. Feel free to disagree, but expect merciless ridicule if you do.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:33 pm UTC

Well wait. You called me thick, and my band examples included Daft Punk. Who play live, and don't play instruments in the nominal sense, but they do play computers--so how is that a bad example?
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:15 am UTC

Holy goddamn shit, can the idiot who called everyone thick shut the hell up about it, and everyone else shut the hell up about the idiot who called them thick?

That'd be swanky as hell because I'm tired of goddamn reading it.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby theGoldenCalf; » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:24 am UTC

Not sure exactly how unpopular this is, but taking on a minor theme from above I say that the best music performances are made by Nerds looking down on gadgets
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