Brass Players

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dontiego
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Re: Brass Players

Postby dontiego » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

ponzerelli wrote:seriously, with braces would be frickin hard. I couldn't play those when I had them. Now that they're off, I can hit the double high Bflat and C (4/5 ledger lines) no problem. I start to lose my intonation on anything higher than that.


I was going to write: "mmm, that's high!", until I read that it wasn't trumpet.
Well, it's maybe high on the euphonium (bass clef :wink: ) but I wouldn't know.
I'm exactly on that "limit" (that I called splice earlier, no one cared to correct me), around G with 4 ledger lines (treble clef), but can't get them stable and strong... I'll try to work my way through this, maybe try some other mouthpieces.

There's this one baritone player at my school who thinks dog-whistle notes are cool, but he can't get good tone, separation, or definition up there so it's just annoying. Plus, he never actually plays them any other time than warming up. It's not cool.


Actually, even though I wrote what I wrote above, I don't really like how it sounds on the trumpet either. Arthuro Sandoval plays just so... ugly and tasteless... it's high and disgusting.

Try to youtube the opening ceremony of the olympic games in atlanta (1996?). I don't remember who was playing the trumpet in the arena (Something Lewis, maybe?), but God... that was not pretty.
High.
Not pretty. It's like body builders. Big muscles. Not pretty.

So I just want to do it to see if I can. Then when I can, I'll try to learn not to over-use it :P
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a386
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Re: Brass Players

Postby a386 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:16 pm UTC

heehee im a trumpeter! jazz more than anything. since range seems to be the topic, mine is pretty steadily on that "limit" around a high C or D. (octave above the one inside the staff with a treble clef). i also play french horn in concert band but that's not a major thing, i don't even own one. also, my teacher just today was talking to me about upstreaming and like kind of tilting your head to change the position of the mouthpiece on your lips to move around instead of always clenching and loosening your muscles. anyone have any thoughts?

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Aperfectring
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Re: Brass Players

Postby Aperfectring » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:26 am UTC

I refuse to claim that I play trumpet. I prefer to claim I am permanent 2nd cornet. I don't have the range to play 1st, and don't have the tone production on trumpet.
Odds are I did well on my probability exam.

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Re: Brass Players

Postby Mercat » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:24 am UTC

dontiego wrote:High.
Not pretty. It's like body builders. Big muscles. Not pretty.


I am stealing this from you to rag on the rest of my section FOREVER. <3
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Re: Brass Players

Postby McDutchy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:29 am UTC

dontiego wrote:Actually, even though I wrote what I wrote above, I don't really like how it sounds on the trumpet either. Arthuro Sandoval plays just so... ugly and tasteless... it's high and disgusting.

Try to youtube the opening ceremony of the olympic games in atlanta (1996?). I don't remember who was playing the trumpet in the arena (Something Lewis, maybe?), but God... that was not pretty.
High.
Not pretty. It's like body builders. Big muscles. Not pretty.

So I just want to do it to see if I can. Then when I can, I'll try to learn not to over-use it :P


I would suggest some Maynard Ferguson for a more artistic interpretation of the high range on trumpet. The best stuff to really appreciate the elegance of his playing is some of his earlier stuff, like MF Horn 2. But, as you said, if done wrong, the high register on the trumpet can become more annoying than impressive.

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Re: Brass Players

Postby SpitValve » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:51 pm UTC

McDutchy wrote:. But, as you said, if done wrong, the high register on the trumpet can become more annoying than impressive.


Has anyone heard Scream Machine by James Morrison? :) Now that's a good use of the high register...

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dontiego
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Re: Brass Players

Postby dontiego » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:52 pm UTC

SpitValve wrote:Has anyone heard Scream Machine by James Morrison? :) Now that's a good use of the high register...


Wait! I wonder if that wasn't the guy playing in Atlanta 1996!

<google>

No. James Morrison, it was Sydney 2000. But it must be the guy I meant! I have to youtube that when i get to a non-youtube-blocked computer (trust is good, control is better).

McDutchy wrote:. But, as you said, if done wrong, the high register on the trumpet can become more annoying than impressive.


I will try more Fergusson, but of what I remember, he was too screamy for me too. I might just be jealous :)
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ponzerelli
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Re: Brass Players

Postby ponzerelli » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:39 pm UTC

dontiego wrote:
ponzerelli wrote:seriously, with braces would be frickin hard. I couldn't play those when I had them. Now that they're off, I can hit the double high Bflat and C (4/5 ledger lines) no problem. I start to lose my intonation on anything higher than that.


I was going to write: "mmm, that's high!", until I read that it wasn't trumpet.
Well, it's maybe high on the euphonium (bass clef :wink: ) but I wouldn't know.
I'm exactly on that "limit" (that I called splice earlier, no one cared to correct me), around G with 4 ledger lines (treble clef), but can't get them stable and strong... I'll try to work my way through this, maybe try some other mouthpieces.




that is really high on the euphonium. the max range that you can get on the euphonium is the F above what I can play, i think that's 3 more whole steps. so yeah, really high on the euph.

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Little Richie
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Re: Brass Players

Postby Little Richie » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:48 am UTC

So this kid wants to take tuba lessons. His dad signs him up.
After his first lesson he gets home at 8, his dad askes him how it went. He answers, Great! i learned how to play an "f". Great keep up the good work.
The second lesson, the kid comes home and shouts to his dad, ' dad dad listen to me, I learned how to play a 'b flat''
'thats great son, keep practicing.'
The kid practiced and played and played.

The next week the kid isnt home for a while later, around ten he comes through the door and hes father asks, where were you. The kid replys, "I just had my first gig"

=D

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Re: Brass Players

Postby SpitValve » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:23 pm UTC

I've heard the same joke, but with bass players and "e" and "a". Or something like that.

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Re: Brass Players

Postby curious and questioning » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:11 am UTC

So I have been practicing high notes. I got a first trombone part for something in group lessons (in school) that we were playing once to kill time and probably never will again. I completely failed at it then, of course. My new goal is to be able to make playing a high (5 ledger lines) B flat as easy as if it were an octave lower. I don't expect this to happen anytime soon; actually this is because I want to play first trombone by senior year and this will help.
It has been four days. I have practiced on three of them. Obviously, I have not succeeded yet.
What amazes me is that some change has occurred so soon. I practice the things I need to get done, and then I practice that piece (in which the lowest note is an A flat, the one below tuning B flat) until I get headaches and/or physically can't play anymore without disproportionate effort. I think that's around 5-10 minutes of high notes after 10-20 minutes of normal practicing. In that time, my high Gs have gone from passable to actually sounding good anytime I'm not tired, the high As are about a week away from being decent if progress continues at this rate, and I can play a high B flat.
tl;dr- High notes are hard. Practicing things helps more than I thought it did. Is this a fluke?

Also, does anyone know *why* high notes give people headaches? The only thing I can think of that makes any sense is that the fast vibrations go through your head at a bad frequency or something.
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Re: Brass Players

Postby cypherspace » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:45 am UTC

curious and questioning wrote:Also, does anyone know *why* high notes give people headaches? The only thing I can think of that makes any sense is that the fast vibrations go through your head at a bad frequency or something.

No, that doesn't make sense, otherwise trumpet players would have constant headaches. I'd say it's to do with your breathing - playing the high notes requires a different effort from your lungs which you're currently not used to.
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Hulyen
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Re: Brass Players

Postby Hulyen » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:27 pm UTC

I was a trumpet player for 9 years in grade through high school. I probably should have been on a different brass instrument, honestly. I never fit into the ego-centric section of mine in any of the bands, my high range was not so great (partly from having braces on and off and on and off throughout those years - everytime I'd adjust and get my range back, it'd change again). I'd love to pick it back up and get back into it at my own pace before too much time passes from last playing it often, but my poor Bartholomew is pretty much dead. Student model trumpet that lasted the whole time and sounded awesome....but the valves are pretty much shot, and he needs to be replaced if I can ever afford it, lol.

For the record....the trombones in my band were as bad as if not worse than the trumpets in the 'ego and holier-than-thou' department...

Edit: Headaches from high notes can be an indication that you need to adjust your air flow for that register - probably need more air.

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Re: Brass Players

Postby cypherspace » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:07 pm UTC

Hulyen wrote:For the record....the trombones in my band were as bad as if not worse than the trumpets in the 'ego and holier-than-thou' department...

You only say that because we're better than you.
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dontiego
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Re: Brass Players

Postby dontiego » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:44 pm UTC

curious and questioning wrote:So I have been practicing high notes. I got a first trombone part for something in group lessons (in school) that we were playing once to kill time and probably never will again. I completely failed at it then, of course. My new goal is to be able to make playing a high (5 ledger lines) B flat as easy as if it were an octave lower. I don't expect this to happen anytime soon; actually this is because I want to play first trombone by senior year and this will help.
It has been four days. I have practiced on three of them. Obviously, I have not succeeded yet.
What amazes me is that some change has occurred so soon. I practice the things I need to get done, and then I practice that piece (in which the lowest note is an A flat, the one below tuning B flat) until I get headaches and/or physically can't play anymore without disproportionate effort. I think that's around 5-10 minutes of high notes after 10-20 minutes of normal practicing. In that time, my high Gs have gone from passable to actually sounding good anytime I'm not tired, the high As are about a week away from being decent if progress continues at this rate, and I can play a high B flat.
tl;dr- High notes are hard. Practicing things helps more than I thought it did. Is this a fluke?

Also, does anyone know *why* high notes give people headaches? The only thing I can think of that makes any sense is that the fast vibrations go through your head at a bad frequency or something.


Aha, congrats! Progress... it's a great feeling, isn't it?

When I started college, I moved from playing every day a least one hour to playing once a week.
I was really afraid to lose it all...
Then my range went up. I still can't understand it. That's also when I started playing lead trumpet in a big band (once a week), and that's pretty much all I do still today. And now I feel that I can take the next step pretty soon, it feels so good :)

I agree with cypherspace, I guess the headache has to do with how much oxygen you send to your brain... or how much blood you force into your head by contracting your throat. Which you shouldn't, of course :)

a side-note: youtube "scream trumpet" to see a bunch of idiots showing off.
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Aperfectring
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Re: Brass Players

Postby Aperfectring » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:55 am UTC

dontiego wrote:a side-note: youtube "scream trumpet" to see a bunch of idiots showing off.
No thanks. I have already HAD a migraine.
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Re: Brass Players

Postby pi-3 orionis » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:56 am UTC

Trombone player here. I played through middle school. Towards the end of middle school there was an after school jazz band that I joined that consisted of the better middle schoolers in the area. Once high school started I didn't want to go back into regular band music as I found it pretty boring in the first place. I signed up for the schools's 0 hour jazz band, but since I was a freshman and the band is reserved mostly for the upperclasssmen I didn't even get an audition. Now I'm in 11th grade and haven't played much up until recently. Since I never had anything to play for the last few years my range has gone down a bit. I can get up to around a G or an A, but not very well. Braces make things difficult. So now I look up tabs for my favorite ska bands and play with those. I also spend quite a bit of time with the bass guitar. Along with just studying music theory. I figure if I skipped 2 and a half years of band class I've got some catching up to do.

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Deep Thought
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Re: Brass Players

Postby Deep Thought » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:59 am UTC

Hulyen wrote:For the record....the trombones in my band were as bad as if not worse than the trumpets in the 'ego and holier-than-thou' department...

Huh. The trombone players in our group are actually some of the coolest people in band...

So, being the n00b I am, a question for you guys once again is presented (from a grammatically incorrect third person voice, nonetheless).

For both trumpet and french horn, I play with a really screwy embouchure--nearly entirely on my bottom lip. So far I've gotten by, and was almost always first trumpet in concert band. But, I also play extremely quietly, and my range is, well, ok...

The lack of volume is probably not cause by this, seeing that we had an awesome lead trumpet in jazz band that played the same way... and actually, come to think of it... his range was pretty astounding too... er... yeah...

So, perhaps fixing this isn't all that crucial? It's a bad habit, yes, but it seems as if it doesn't necessarily have a bad effect.

Opinions/suggestions/[insert random helpful action of some sort]....?

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Re: Brass Players

Postby Ceorle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:56 pm UTC

I'll be joining the hordes of euphonists here. I've played for nine years and gotten pretty good, and I might be about to spend a year as an army musician (in Sweden). However, I don't yet know whether it'll be as a trombonist or euphonist, since I've been playing the trombone for a year as well, or which corps. We will surely be donning weird hats, though.

Does anybody play in a brass band, by the way? We got that new march which just... works. Damn, Sparke!

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Re: Brass Players

Postby curious and questioning » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:50 pm UTC

The brass thread hasn't disappeared in the however long it's been since I last came to the music section of the fora! Yay!

Deep Thought wrote:I also play extremely quietly

As someone who has been shouted at to play louder from the time she first took up trombone, I can offer some sort of advice, maybe?
Air.
You have heard this before, I hope. I have heard it for the past almost six years, and after finally becoming fed up with being told, yet again, the role the diaphragm plays in breathing, I found that it kind of works. I can explain how to breathe properly, but for now I will assume that you know already. So, take a deep breath and try playing as loud as you can. If you know that you should play louder but don't, try playing everything a few dynamic levels louder than it should be. Something that made me want to improve at this was listening to others playing loudly and beautifully, then comparing that to my sound. I don't know if any of this will work for you, and in full disclosure I should probably note that I still get told to be louder, but definitely not as often. Anyway, this is hopefully some kind of help. I don't know about embouchure in detail, so I cannot advise on that.
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Re: Brass Players

Postby cypherspace » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:54 pm UTC

curious and questioning wrote:The brass thread hasn't disappeared in the however long it's been since I last came to the music section of the fora! Yay!

Deep Thought wrote:I also play extremely quietly

As someone who has been shouted at to play louder from the time she first took up trombone, I can offer some sort of advice, maybe?
Air.
You have heard this before, I hope. I have heard it for the past almost six years, and after finally becoming fed up with being told, yet again, the role the diaphragm plays in breathing, I found that it kind of works.

What I'd say is that it's all about support. It's not about straining yourself to push air through the instrument, it's about supporting your breathing properly. Pushing, not squeezing. It's barely anything to do with embouchure.

A practice mute will also help hugely (I recommend Denis Wick mutes). If you're not familiar with them, it blocks practically all airflow through the instrument. It becomes very hard to blow through. If you blow hard until the mute rattles, and continue to do so for five minutes or so, then when you take it out, your volume instantly surprises you.
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Deep Thought
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Re: Brass Players

Postby Deep Thought » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:08 am UTC

Yes, I definitely need to support more. (though, for some reason, hearing it from someone other than a band director was a bit more motivating...)

It would be awesome to have a fuller sound; the thing is, whenever I attempt to play loudly I have less control over my embouchure (that is now officially the most obnoxious word to spell...). Or rather, I assume that it takes more control. Either way, I lack of control. The obvious remedy is to practice, which I'm about to go engage in momentarily (sadly, for the first time in quite a while)

Anyhow, as I said, it did help to hear it from someone who A) has experienced the same thing and B) is not the same person who tells me to do so almost daily.

And such a practice mute would be perfect. Perhaps I can procure one in the near future...

So thanks for all bits of advice. They did (and will continue to) help.

Oh, and this is not strictly brass related, but does anyone have any tales of epic band trips to regale? Our jazz band went on a trip a short while ago, and it was really fun. Picture a bus full of teenagers, with generally good taste in music and entertainment (they are in band), gobs of junk food, a guitar, and about eight hours to kill.

'Twas pretty sweet.


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