Punk Rock

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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AlphaSquirrel
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby AlphaSquirrel » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:13 am UTC

Who considers Ska, punk rock?
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Balrog Boogie » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:28 am UTC

Cycle wrote:
Balrog Boogie wrote:[punk] has been recycled into mainstream as a new excuse to vandal and act an asshole and as a fashion style.

Punk was always about acting like an asshole, and it was always a fashion. What, you think Sid Vicious was a nice guy and dressed conservatively?

Punk was for shock value. Now 'punk' is just hating teachers and egging cars.
Sid Vicious, was apparently (according to a documentary on the Sex Pistols/Sid & Nancy?) a very nice guy.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby existential_elevator » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:16 pm UTC

AlphaSquirrel wrote:Who considers Ska, punk rock?


I generally think of ska as being "new-wave" rather than punk rock. If it's punk ska. Because there's plenty of ska out there that is definitely not rock. A lot of new-wave has both ska and punk influence - Reel Big Fish is probably the best example I can think of offhand, along with Liberator - but I'd say that because of the ska influence you can no longer think of it as punk rock.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Allium Cepa » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:19 pm UTC

Reel Big Fish is way more ska-pop than ska-punk, and there aren't nearly as many ska-punk bands as ska-pop. I guess some of the faster third wave stuff like Streetlight Manifesto and Operation Ivy could be considered more punk.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby AlphaSquirrel » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:41 pm UTC

Allium Cepa wrote:Reel Big Fish is way more ska-pop than ska-punk, and there aren't nearly as many ska-punk bands as ska-pop. I guess some of the faster third wave stuff like Streetlight Manifesto and Operation Ivy could be considered more punk.

I agree entirely. However online radio stations always seem to group those in the same station. Some would say that it's because they do play the ska-punk type of ska but that's not even true. I listen to about 3 different online ska stations and they all play Reel Big Fish but consider themselves punk and ska or just punk.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby ChocloManx » Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:41 am UTC

But, as far as I know, Ska is way older than Punk. Older than Reegae actually.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby AlphaSquirrel » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:52 am UTC

Say wha? I'd say that Ska is sort of an offspring of Punk, Reggae, and Jazz.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby existential_elevator » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:15 am UTC

ChocloManx wrote:But, as far as I know, Ska is way older than Punk. Older than Reggae actually.


This is truth. Ska came about in the 50s, before reggae, apparently as a mix of calypso and jazz. It was around a long time before punk, and I'd guess even before a large part of rock.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby McCaber » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:34 am UTC

Well, that's when first wave ska evolved. The sound changed over time until in the late 80s it arrived at the third wave we all know and love. Now some see it as branching into a fourth wave, but I consider those bands (like Streetlight, or the now defunct I Voted for Kodos) as more of a wave 3.5, as they're just too similar to the previous music.

(/ska kid)
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby RSMaster » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:50 am UTC

Question: where would you classify Billy Talent, if you would cast them into this spectrum at all?

A friend immediately classified them "punk", hence their presence here.

They refuse to classify themselves, which everyone knows will stop others less fit (me) from trying to do so.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TallMax » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:17 am UTC

Billy Talent is not a punk band. I don't care for subgenres past the "simple" ones (i.e. punk, rock, blues, countrym rap, r&b etc.) so I will not get specific in attempting to tell you what they are, but Billy Talent is not a punk band. Not saying that that's a bad thing - just saying.

Mainly, I've been revisiting a lot of the bands I was into in high school like Man is the Bastard, Antischism, Initial State (oh god I forgot how good they were), and Rudimetary Peni. The new RP album is so good too - definitely import it if you have the cash. For new bands, Parasytic, Warfair? and Fall of Efrafa have also been getting a LOT of attention.

Does anyone read any fanzines here? I just got the new Short, Fast and Loud and it comes with the Insect Warfare/Flagitious Idiosyncrasy in the Dilapidation 7" which is pretty good. I've been meaning to get a subscription to Profane Existence, and while I'm not a giant fan of Razorcake I always read em since a friend's brother of mine writes for them.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TallMax » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:48 pm UTC

People should talk about shows they've been to as well.

So, I saw Ampere with Baader Brains, Punch and Loma Prieta at the Gilman. Loma Prieta is kinda meh, personally, but if you're into bands from level-plane you'd probably like them. Punch reminds me of .fuckingcom (the singer reminds me of the girl from .fuckingcom especially), and they were really tight. Circle pits and way awesome singing. Punch is also friends with a lot of people I know, and cool people.

Baader Brains were personally the best band there. The guitarist was in a ton of bands over the years (Please Inform the Captain This is a Hijack, Fuel [the punk one, not the rock one], Torches to Rome, Navio Forge, Bread and Circuits, John Henry West), and they were a bit of a "gimmick" band that will take a bit of explaining to understand, but they're really cool. Andrea Baader was part of the German Red Army Faction, which was considered a leftist terrorist group by Germany. Baader Brains has created this "new" terrorist group called the Young Tigers Free Organization, and their band is like the propaganda for the YTFO. They had banners proclaiming "Welcome to the 6th Young Tigers party congress! June 8th, 2033." In their LP they detail the YTFO overthrowing a country and spreading their political message as well as statements by Chairman Leslie, a founding member of the YTFO. At the start of the show they had people in ski masks throw pamphlets declaring their statement all over and yelling and running around, then the band came out wearing tiger striped ski masks, dark green camo jackets, pants and fidel castro hats, and red bandanas like how a boyscout would wear them. During their songs they'd have videos playing talking about the YTFO's political agenda along with propaganda videos and sound clips of people talking about political issues. Also, they had tiger striped balloons everywhere, and WERE AMAZING. Also, they apparently only do this at certain times, because someone said a few months ago they just played without all the fancy ness. There are two videos on youtube which I'll link to - the video/outfits they had are totally different, which leads me to believe each time they do this it's always new things, which is REALLY cool.

Ampere were Ampere - their songs are just as explosive, well put together and chaotic as they are. They played for ten minutes, and it felt like getting hit in the face repeatedly then it was over. They have the guitarist from Orchid, too, so if you know that band you should know what to expect.



Ampere - anything will be crazy
http://www.myspace.com/amperepunx

Baader Brains video & mp3 link
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yx-JJRq6BSg&feature=related
http://www.cleanplate.com/Body_of_the_King.mp3

Loma Prieta - check out Worn Path
http://www.myspace.com/lomaprieta

Punch - check out There's No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
http://www.myspace.com/punchcrew
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby palafoxy » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:08 pm UTC

about baader brains, glad you liked it. there are other people in the bands that have done and do other projects, music not withstanding.
j.p.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:41 pm UTC

I'm going to be seeing Ampere and Loma Prieta tomorrow night. Glad to hear Loma Prieta is similar to Level Plane bands, I haven't heard them before and wasn't sure if I would like them.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TallMax » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:36 pm UTC

What'd you think of the show?
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TheAmazingRando » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:45 am UTC

I wasn't able to make it, actually. My friend dropped out at the last minute and I was tired from the two final exams I took.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Autonomous_Anonymous » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:22 am UTC

Was just trawling through the back pages looking for a punk thread and I thought i'd bump this...

Looks like im a bit late to flame about 90's punk being marginalised because it's made by people under 40... (well, apart from fat mike and good old brett)...

as well as the modern legends like NOFX, Rancid, Propaghandi and the misfits, check out the new melodic hardcore bands like No Trigger and Set your Goals... awesome mix of 80's hardcore and 90's melody

And elvis costello and the buzzcocks over propaghandi? pshh...throw away your double disc ''best punk collection ever'' you bought at the mall and stop listening to your dad. He's old.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby cyberthor » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:46 pm UTC

I noticed no one mentioned the New York Dolls :shock: , One of my favorite bands of all time. To me, they are the punk roots in drag.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby rutebega » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:33 pm UTC

This thread was really good until people started debating genre and being all "this thread isn't real until MY favorite band is in it."

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Account20151023 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:37 pm UTC

i can haz Government Issue and A Wilhelm Scream???

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Mr. Galt » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:43 pm UTC

Balrog Boogie wrote:Punk is non-conforming.
Punk is not caring about whether it is conforming, just as long as you enjoy it.
Punk is anarchism,
Punk is liberalism.
Punk is communism; and
Punk is anti-fascism.
Punk is just as much as it is about the music as it is about the message it conveys.

My mere opinions, friends.


I agree with that as far as Punk music convey messages with a more sincerity than most other genres but defined that broadly many things could be the same.

Take this for example.

The Beats were non-conforming.
The Beats did not care about whether it was conforming, just as long as you enjoyed it.
The Beats were anarchists (but mostly just antiestablishment)
The Beats were liberal.
The Beats is just as much as it is about the poetry/writing/music as it is about the message it conveys.

I would go as far as to say that punk is just made up of angry beatniks. That would cause the sense of "oneness" that groups of punks have against the "greater evil"....almost similar to communism, but still hating that stance. (anti-facism and communism)

I don't really know what I'm saying anyway.
:|

PS. For being a genre obsessed with non-conformity, I find it ironic that being defined as punk is so damn specific.
Even if Rancid or Anti flag is not punk, their still good bands with (some)good messages.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Dantez » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:29 am UTC

Is anybody here Straight Edge? I don't mean a*sholes, which only play on it "'cause it's cool," but I mean true people. Like me. Anybody?
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby thatguy » Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:29 am UTC

I wouldn't define myself as straight-edge, but I kinda follow that form (i.e. I don't drink, smoke, etc...)
The only real straight-egde music I listen to is Minor Threat, and even then usually their later, milder stuff.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby veridical » Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:40 pm UTC

As far as concerts go, I recently saw the Dead Milkmen, Leftover Crack, and Bad Brains at a festival. It was pretty much the best weekend of my life. Leftover Crack in particular put on an amazing show. I was surprised at how small the turnout for LoC was, though. I always assumed they were pretty popular in the punk scene. Anybody here got any love for LoC?
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby yolesaber » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:54 pm UTC

Is anyone going to the Have Heart and Ceremony show tomorrow in Allston, at the ICC? It looks to be probably the best show of the year and it'd be pretty cool to see some fellow xkcders there

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby flygirafda3 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:13 am UTC

Ok, so every Against Me! album (yes including New Wave, listen to it more, they did not sell out like everyone thinks)
Bomb the Music Industry! for the d.i.y. types. also has about the most meaningful lyrics i have heard recently (and not like "oh the government! and girls!" meaningful as in: "Every Fugazi record has a catalouge number and price tag, and every independent label is just trying to sell me another goddamn product")
Fugazi of course
Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains/Wingnut Dishwashers Union
NOFX is definitely included (see separation of church and skate :
"I want conflict I want dissent, I want the scene to represent
Our hatred of authority, our fight against complacency
Stop singing songs about girls and love, you killed the owl you freed the dove
Confrontation and politics replaced with harmonies and shticks
When did punk rock become so tame, these fucking bands all sound the same
We want our fights we want our thugs, we want our burns we want our drungs
Where is the violent apathy, these fucking records are rated g")
Thrice
At the Drive-In
A.F.I. (the reason you think they are not is probably because you have only heard decemberunderground and sing the sorrow, bands sell out, it happens, it doesn't change the past)
Capdown
Dinosaur Jr.
Gogol Bordello
Jimmy Eat World (i dont care what you say, bleed american helped redefine hardcore[yes hardcore] and real emo and modern punk)
alot more but i have to do stuff, ill come back later


cyberthor wrote:I noticed no one mentioned the New York Dolls :shock: , One of my favorite bands of all time. To me, they are the punk roots in drag.

didnt the singer for that band also sing that Hot Hot Hot, latin dance style song? Poindexter something or other i believe was the name it was done under

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Stabable Offense » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:00 am UTC

flygirafda3 wrote:Jimmy Eat World (i dont care what you say, bleed american helped redefine hardcore[yes hardcore] and real emo and modern punk)


this is the most absurd statement i've ever read... sounds like it came right off a poster at hot topic.
jimmy eat world had nothing to do with any of those genres

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:46 am UTC

Bleed American wasn't a hardcore album, it was Jimmy Eat World effectively changing genres from emocore to alt rock, and it's one of the main reasons that the term "emo" is so often misused. It wasn't even a revolutionary change, they just took the direction that bands like Sunny Day Real Estate had already taken (mixing emo with alternative rock) and dropped the emo elements.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Gaz » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:25 am UTC

Dinosaur Jr.


Really? Punk? ....really? They never struck me as punk, personally.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby a_heavy_object » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:32 pm UTC

i agree with anti-flag not being (they sold out) i still listen to them but try bad religion or the offspring

lol buzzcocks i thought i was the only one ORGASM ADDICT
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby flygirafda3 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:02 am UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:Bleed American wasn't a hardcore album, it was Jimmy Eat World effectively changing genres from emocore to alt rock, and it's one of the main reasons that the term "emo" is so often misused. It wasn't even a revolutionary change, they just took the direction that bands like Sunny Day Real Estate had already taken (mixing emo with alternative rock) and dropped the emo elements.

thats why i put the "[yes hardcore]" section in my post.
also, jimmy eat world brought it to a larger audience, and i would blame other bands such as taking back sunday or the all american rejects for the misuse of the term emo

i dont understand why people are so obsessed about saying so and so sold out so they aren't punk. yeah it blows when bands do it, but it doesnt change any of the things their past albums stood for. so you know what, anti-flag and and greenday are punk. theres no way you can have a song titled "fuck the flag and fuck you too" and not be punk

and to be honest i would even classify pink floyd as punk. just listen to the lyrics, they've got the punk spirit.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Revek » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:52 pm UTC

I'm not going to get into the genre debate. Defining musical genres is tricky. Classifying bands as a whole is even trickier. Do you base it off of their entire discography? Just one album? One song? The music? The lyrics? The instrumentation? Their personalities? Their philosophy? I disagree with trying to shoehorn bands into genres as practice. Music and what to call it are far too subjective to do this to. Plus one band might fit into several. Then what? As far as I'm concerned there are only two types of music: the stuff I like and the stuff I don't like. Anything else is a semantics argument.

I will mention a few bands that may (or may not) fall under the 'punk' heading which I don't think have been talked about yet.

Agnostic Front
Flogging Molly
Knucklehead
Lard (really any band that Jello Biafra was involved with)
Lars Frederickson & The Bastards
Millencollin
Pennywise
Raised Fist
Sick On The Bus
Social Distortion (surprised I didn't see them in this thread)
The Bouncing Souls
The Distillers
The Dropkick Murphys
The Hollow Points
The Real McKenzies
The Sainte Catherines
Wisdom In Chains

These are all above average bands in my eyes (ears?). You may not agree that they are all punk but they are all worth listening too at least once.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby scrt_rbt_agnt » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:48 pm UTC

everyone in this thread should read THIS BOOK and then come back.

edit: sorry i forgot my manners.

the book is called "Our Band Could Be Your Life" and it highlights the american indie/punk underground in the 80s. it explains through and through what the punk ethos is all about and what makes things punk. it was written in 1994, so don't expect anything too modern to be in it. i read it on loan from a friend because it covers a few of my favorite bands including fugazi, the replacements, sonic youth and dinosaur jr.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby TheAmazingRando » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:34 pm UTC

That book is excellent, though I felt like it could have devoted much more time to Rites of Spring than it did. Actually, I don't remember if they were really even mentioned.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Thomometophobia » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:24 am UTC

Punk rock?

Is it not determined by the lyrical content?

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby a_heavy_object » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:26 pm UTC

Can I venture to say punk is dead, and the reason why is: Metal and people's obsession to get more hardcore music. Sure, we'd like to say punk has evolved but it hasn't - it's just a sub culture


-emo ruined punk rock forever
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true punk rockers knew the clash and the sex pistols were the god fathers of punk rock

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby Felstaff » Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:49 pm UTC

Punk, in the form I believe you want it to be, is quite dead. That is because it was a reactionary movement to music that had its peak in the 1980s. It was indeed a sub-culture back then, because it was the voice of a disaffected generation. The Clash, the Sex Pistols and the Buzzcocks, amongst many others, encapsulated the spirit of angst that many young people felt.

'Emo' (that bastard catch-all term for negative music) was established long after punk's heyday, and I daresay anybody gets the two confused. Possibly because of the mass of substrata music that spawned off punk, and the fact the word punk was attributed to many splinter genres (like ska punk, or blitzpunk, for instance) means "punk" has become some huge umbrella term that many types of music--deservedly or not--gets lumped in together. Even the Ramones were a derivative of punk, being punk-rock and all.

(Okay, I totally made up 'blitzpunk*' - but what a fucking awesome term! It should be used more)

Complaining that the punk you love is no longer alive is like moaning that New Wave and New Romanticism is dead, and was killed off by pop. It's dead because popular music tastes change. The very definition of 'dead' when applied to music is essentially saying 'no longer mainstream'.

And nobody wanted punk to be mainstream anyway. It was supposed to be an underground thing, but it got too popular. Like indie - the popularity of the music became its own downfall and evolved it into something that betrays its initial message.

So enjoy the music the lost generation created, but don't lament on its passing. It lessens the music's message.

*Edit: I just researched blitzpunk, and its a literary subgenre focusing on fiction that is based on the premise that the Nazi party continued to exist after WWII (like Fatherland, which is an excellent book by an excellent writer)
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby thatguy » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:43 am UTC

It seems the best way to define punk at it genesis was:
Music that is a rebellion against the popular music of the time.
Example:The Ramones bare-bonesing it with the three-chord speed attack while most pop music was growing more and more complex.

Which then became:
Expressing the "punk" ideal (liberal-ish, DIY, etc...)
Example: Dead Kennedys

Nowadays, pop music pretty much fits these two rules, so punk as we knew it is pretty much dead.

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Re: Punk Rock

Postby mosc » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:15 pm UTC

Punk is defined as any band you can have an argument about when/if they sold out. Seriously, it's defined as a very similar type of music that violently opposes it's own classification yet is often formulaic and incredibly similar. I love punk music and I think for many fans, punk is more about defining what it is not than what it is.

Revek mentioned Millencollin (Mr. Clean is awesome), Pennywise, and The Dropkick Murphys. Great stuff. You a fan of Gutterball too?

Also, what's with Guitar Hero's selection of punk? I mean GH1 they hit bad religion but even though they've had Rise Against and NOFX in there now they seem to have chosen particularly bad guitar chart songs.
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Re: Punk Rock

Postby thatguy » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:35 am UTC

mosc wrote:Punk is defined as any band you can have an argument about when/if they sold out.

I like that much better then my definitions.

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