Rap

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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Cornelius
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Rap

Postby Cornelius » Mon May 26, 2008 5:09 am UTC

I have a proposition

The division of Rap into two generes-
High Rap and Low Rap.

High Rap being the following:
Anything not involving gangs, "hoes", "bitches", racial slurs, racist bullshit, or whining.

Preferably with non-Electronica accompaniment.

Examples of High Rap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpmgqC0G2yY
Anthrax- "I'm The Man"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoLkaGcpJFA
Anthrax and Public Enemy- "Bring The Noize"

Low Rap being anything not considered High Rap.

Examples of Low Rap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDAaevTq51I
Flo Rida ft. T-Pain "Low"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoNQ70kK-5c&hl=en
Ice Cube "Gangster Nation"
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Re: Rap

Postby SomeoneElse » Mon May 26, 2008 9:47 pm UTC

I guess that division is already kinda present; just not to the eyes of the mainstream. I guess most people see "Rap" and "Hip-hop" as synonymous, though that's not quite true: Gangster rap etc is the bitches n' hoe stuff, whereas the good stuff can be classed as just hip-hop and all its subgenres. Although, often the same artists can have the odd tracks full of gangstery as well as tracks without.

See this theread, anyhoo.

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Re: Rap

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue May 27, 2008 12:56 am UTC

Not all rap that includes those things is anywhere near as bad as the samples you've provided. It just happens that most shitty rap happens to include those things. Wu-Tang Clan and NWA, for example, would probably fit in the "low rap" category, but represent some of the best of the genre. Likewise, most nerdcore is an absolute abomination to rap and to music in general, but would fit in "high rap."

If the categories didn't have an intrinsic value judgement, I might agree with you.

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Re: Rap

Postby Cornelius » Tue May 27, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:Not all rap that includes those things is anywhere near as bad as the samples you've provided. It just happens that most shitty rap happens to include those things. Wu-Tang Clan and NWA, for example, would probably fit in the "low rap" category, but represent some of the best of the genre. Likewise, most nerdcore is an absolute abomination to rap and to music in general, but would fit in "high rap."

If the categories didn't have an intrinsic value judgement, I might agree with you.


Well, what would you suggest for the categories?

It's not like it's set in stone.
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Re: Rap

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed May 28, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Can anyone suggest nerdcore that doesn't suck?
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Re: Rap

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed May 28, 2008 2:30 am UTC

I don't think you can easily distinguish between rap artists based on lyrical content alone, at least not on any meaningful level. If there's a distinction, I would say it's between rap primarily meant to be danced to vs. rap primarily meant to be listened to. If the rap is successful primarily because it has a good beat, it goes in the first, whereas if it's because the lyrics are well written (not just in meaning, but in flow as well) it goes in the second. Ideally, good rap has both, but I think most of the trash falls into the first category because the quality of the rapping itself isn't really important. Not all of the first variety is bad, nor is all of the second variety good, but I don't think it's possible to make a division between good and bad rap that everyone will agree on, because different people have different tastes.

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Re: Rap

Postby socynicalsohip » Fri May 30, 2008 11:21 am UTC

Cornelius wrote:I have a proposition
The division of Rap into two generes-
High Rap and Low Rap.

As others have already stated you're chosen terminology appears very loaded. I'd like to question your motivation for the division. From the description given it would seem to be soley to indulge your pretensions.

I must confess that it annoys me when people try to disassociate sub-genres of hip hop [or other genres] from other branches of the genre based upon personal preference. Leave my music alone!
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Re: Rap

Postby MoD » Fri May 30, 2008 3:34 pm UTC

I propose we switch the names and see what people make of it.
Last edited by MoD on Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:12 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rap

Postby SecondTalon » Fri May 30, 2008 4:04 pm UTC

..what's wrong with the names that already exist? Gangsta Rap pretty much covers Rap that focuses on the Gangsta Lifestyle. I'm not sure why that's not an acceptable name.
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Re: Rap

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri May 30, 2008 4:17 pm UTC

Can we spell it with an -er, though? "Gangsta" damages my retinas when I read it.
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Re: Rap

Postby SecondTalon » Fri May 30, 2008 4:21 pm UTC

Well.. except, sadly or not, in my mind Gangster refers to white dudes in pinstripe suits wielding tommy guns with barrel drums, while Gansta brings to mind ... well, Tupac.
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Re: Rap

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri May 30, 2008 4:38 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Well.. except, sadly or not, in my mind Gangster refers to white dudes in pinstripe suits wielding tommy guns with barrel drums, while Gansta brings to mind ... well, Tupac.


What are you trying to say, that Tupac couldn't wear a pinstripe suit and run a speakeasy in Prohibition-Era America? Why not?
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Re: Rap

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri May 30, 2008 4:51 pm UTC

I agree with this definition and support this product!

That said, so what, all music can be cut like that.
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Re: Rap

Postby SecondTalon » Fri May 30, 2008 5:29 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:Well.. except, sadly or not, in my mind Gangster refers to white dudes in pinstripe suits wielding tommy guns with barrel drums, while Gansta brings to mind ... well, Tupac.
What are you trying to say, that Tupac couldn't wear a pinstripe suit and run a speakeasy in Prohibition-Era America? Why not?
... don't give him any ideas, or we'll be hit with another Unreleased Tracks of his concept album about Speakeasy Culture...album.
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Re: Rap

Postby Clumpy » Fri May 30, 2008 6:41 pm UTC

I agree with you on the two classifications, but not necessarily on your qualifiers. Madvillain is some of the finest R&B out there, and it's got hoes out the wazoo.

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Re: Rap

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat May 31, 2008 3:42 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Sir_Elderberry wrote:
SecondTalon wrote:Well.. except, sadly or not, in my mind Gangster refers to white dudes in pinstripe suits wielding tommy guns with barrel drums, while Gansta brings to mind ... well, Tupac.
What are you trying to say, that Tupac couldn't wear a pinstripe suit and run a speakeasy in Prohibition-Era America? Why not?
... don't give him any ideas, or we'll be hit with another Unreleased Tracks of his concept album about Speakeasy Culture...album.

I'm waiting for "(Tupac's) Still Alive".
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Re: Rap

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat May 31, 2008 4:54 am UTC

By the way this song is great
It's so upbeat and..moist
Look at me still talking when there's rapping to do
When I look up there it makes me glad I"m not you
I've rhymes yet to begun
There is singing to be done
Hey I'm Tupac and I'm Still Alive
I'm making money and I'm Still Alive
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Re: Rap

Postby Teh Russians » Sat May 31, 2008 5:20 am UTC

The only Rap I listen to is this one Russian semi-philosophical Rap group - Каста(Pronounced Casta). They have a very talented lyricist who really makes the imagery in the songs come to life.
If anyone can point out an English-speaking rap group that uses sophisticated vocabulary instead of curses and slang terms I would be much obliged.
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Re: Rap

Postby TheAmazingRando » Sat May 31, 2008 6:06 am UTC

You might like Nas. 50 Cent actually denounced him for his big vocabulary, and if 50 Cent doesn't like something, that's a good indication that it's pretty good.

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Re: Rap

Postby SomeoneElse » Sat May 31, 2008 9:27 am UTC

Teh Russians wrote:The only Rap I listen to is this one Russian semi-philosophical Rap group - Каста(Pronounced Casta). They have a very talented lyricist who really makes the imagery in the songs come to life.
If anyone can point out an English-speaking rap group that uses sophisticated vocabulary instead of curses and slang terms I would be much obliged.

Buck 65 is an example which sounds similar to yours - he's quite good at painting a character / scene with his lyrics. He doesn't necessarily use sophisticated vocabularly for the hell of it, but he doesn't use slang and curses where they're not needed.

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Re: Rap

Postby Felstaff » Sat May 31, 2008 8:34 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:in my mind Gangster refers to white dudes in pinstripe suits wielding tommy guns with barrel drums

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Re: Rap

Postby Surgery » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:37 am UTC

Scroobius Pip is does some very good hip-hop/rap (I know they are different, but in some circles they are nearly synonymous). He also does spoken-word stuff. He sometimes works with sonic genius Dan le Sac and they've just released an album called "Angles" that is very, very, very good. If you like loud and dirty beats I'd also recommend Producers with Computers. Yea, I have a thing for UK hip-hop.

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Re: Rap

Postby Aleril » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:49 am UTC

I am seeing Lupe Fiasco and Kanye West at Lollapalooza this year and I have to say I am pretty excited.

Hell, I am right in the middle of the whole "Hyphy" movement in the Yay Bay Area, and it's pretty interesting/fun.
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Re: Rap

Postby SomeoneElse » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:16 am UTC

Surgery wrote:If you like loud and dirty beats I'd also recommend Producers with Computers. Yea, I have a thing for UK hip-hop.


Man, they suck. They supported Scroobius vs dan; all their lyrics were essentially bigging themselves up and insulting the audience. Ironic or not, it wasn't good. Except for a few tracks which are kinda like Plan B.

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Re: Rap

Postby Hitman_Hart » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:58 pm UTC

Well, yeah. There is a present difference between your definition of high and low rap but I wouldn't necessarily want to distinguish them by congregating one as high rap and another as low rap. This indicates that one has supremacy over another, which isn't true for everyone since people such as myself might actually enjoy gangster rap more than other types of rap because they actually do most of the things they talk about and have slightly more enjoyable lyrics and background music. So, if the difference between these two types of rap were dubbed normal rap and gangster rap, or anything else that doesn't denote one being the better one than the other, I'd agree with the segregation.

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Re: Rap

Postby Clumpy » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:35 pm UTC

Hitman_Hart wrote:Well, yeah. There is a present difference between your definition of high and low rap but I wouldn't necessarily want to distinguish them by congregating one as high rap and another as low rap. This indicates that one has supremacy over another, which isn't true for everyone since people such as myself might actually enjoy gangster rap more than other types of rap because they actually do most of the things they talk about and have slightly more enjoyable lyrics and background music. So, if the difference between these two types of rap were dubbed normal rap and gangster rap, or anything else that doesn't denote one being the better one than the other, I'd agree with the segregation.


I'm with you - it really has to be a case-by-case basis. Some gangsta rappers are among the most acclaimed and inventive rappers around, and pasty white guys with computers have been known to do a decent job as well.

EDIT: Thanks for recommending Nas, Rando. I borrowed Illmatic from my friend - think I'll be getting it this weekend.

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Re: Rap

Postby Emu* » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:20 pm UTC

Le Sac vs Pip wrote:Guns Bitches and Bling were never part of the Four Elements


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Re: Rap

Postby Vanguard » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:25 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Can anyone suggest nerdcore that doesn't suck?


MC chris.
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Re: Rap

Postby Midnight » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:07 am UTC

Aleril wrote:I am seeing Lupe Fiasco and Kanye West at Lollapalooza this year and I have to say I am pretty excited.

Hell, I am right in the middle of the whole "Hyphy" movement in the Yay Bay Area, and it's pretty interesting/fun.




Fixed, good sir. Those of us representing the well-known Area of Yay must always represent it with utmost correctness, yadananeen?
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Re: Rap

Postby wst » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:17 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Can anyone suggest nerdcore that doesn't suck?

MC Hawking anyday. Though he does branch into a bit of trance (Lets play some Tetris motherfuckers) and kind of rock (UFT for the MC). But it's pretty good listening to how some MIT punk bitches got wasted in a driveby. (Isn't/wasn't Randall MIT? I fear for my life now)
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Re: Rap

Postby socynicalsohip » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:28 pm UTC

wst wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Can anyone suggest nerdcore that doesn't suck?

MC Hawking anyday. Though he does branch into a bit of trance (Lets play some Tetris motherfuckers) and kind of rock (UFT for the MC). But it's pretty good listening to how some MIT punk bitches got wasted in a driveby. (Isn't/wasn't Randall MIT? I fear for my life now)


I stand by aleflameyud's initial comment.
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Re: Rap

Postby Iconoclast » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:49 pm UTC

socynicalsohip wrote:
wst wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Can anyone suggest nerdcore that doesn't suck?

MC Hawking anyday. Though he does branch into a bit of trance (Lets play some Tetris motherfuckers) and kind of rock (UFT for the MC). But it's pretty good listening to how some MIT punk bitches got wasted in a driveby. (Isn't/wasn't Randall MIT? I fear for my life now)


I stand by aleflameyud's initial comment.

Agreed. MC Hawking and the like are just gimmicks that you can listen to and laugh at. Not much else.
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Re: Rap

Postby Felstaff » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:17 pm UTC

Hooray I have tickets to see Jay-Z tomorrow (Thursday) at the O2 Wireless Festival. Him Plus Mark Ronson, Hot Chip, Lethal Bizzle and Wiley. Although I'll probably miss the last two as they're on bear early, and I can't get off work on account of late notice.

The ticket was free and my name is "Tina Dimitrieyovich", so I'm going to put on my best Ruskisms at the gate. It's okay, I've been watching a lot of James Bond and I've got the accent down pat.
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Re: Rap

Postby tin » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:12 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Hooray I have tickets to see Jay-Z tomorrow (Thursday) at the O2 Wireless Festival. Him Plus Mark Ronson, Hot Chip, Lethal Bizzle and Wiley. Although I'll probably miss the last two as they're on bear early, and I can't get off work on account of late notice.


Why, hello there amazing lineup. That sounds like a fantastic gig (ignoring the fact that it's in a giant, soulless arena)!
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Re: Rap

Postby Felstaff » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:30 pm UTC

Jokes on you! It's in sunny, sunny Hyde Park. Soulless Corporate Rock Whores be damned, when there's sunshine and fresh air available for a set price.

I really hope Jay-Z plays Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini.
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Re: Rap

Postby tin » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:44 pm UTC

I...uh...have a disease where I read 'festival' as 'arena'. Ahem.

I heard that Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini is his encore. Timmy Mallet provides backup MCing.
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