Rap Music will destroy the world.

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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Fail
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Rap Music will destroy the world.

Postby Fail » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:21 am UTC

Rap Music: It's been called a lot of things, but I'm going to share my personal opinion. I think it's bad, vulgar poetry set to music.

When you listen to music, you get a sense of the writer's motives and emotions when writing the piece. When you listen to rap music, you're listening to these "musicians" talking about drugs, sex, gangs, violence, and crime in couplet form.

Now, when you think about the people who listen to rap, it's mostly twentysomethings and teens, sometimes even kids. Are these the morals we want to instill in the up-and-coming generations? Drugs are cool! You'll make money as a criminal! Objectify women, they like it!

I don't think it's going to completely morally bankrupt people, don't get me wrong, but I think this is an isssue that might grow more and more important over the next few years.

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Postby saxmaniac1987 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:28 am UTC

I think this is an interesting topic to be discussed. If I was less tired, I would form a summary of what I think about rap and its implications. However, that will not happen right now. All I can truly say about rap is that I'm ready for rap and the rest of pop music to take its next turn. I had high hopes that Back to Basics, released by Christina Aguilera, might have some influence in pop, like bringing back horn sections. Nevertheless, it seems more like a novelty album than anything right now...
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Postby Roun » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:32 am UTC

I think it's just a fad, albeit an annoying, loud one.

It'll go away in 15 year's time.

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Postby BlochWave » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:41 am UTC

I've seen these topics on other message boards and they tend to get angry and e-violent

Just remember a whole crap-ton of rock music, both classic and modern, is no higher on the morality scale, unless you count the (normally)lessened profanity. Rock bands often objectify women and glorify drugs(she's my cherry pie? Yah she is!). Maybe not so much the violence, as I can't think of an example offhand.

I have no particular beef with either genre, though I don't normally listen to rap

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Re: Rap Music will destroy the world.

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:52 am UTC

Wow... seriously?

Fail wrote:Rap Music: It's been called a lot of things, but I'm going to share my personal opinion. I think it's bad, vulgar poetry set to music.


I think that if you're thinking that about all rap... I'm going to need you to give me some examples. Cause, I'm not going to defend gangsta rap, since I don't listen to it, but there is quite a bit of rap out there that's actually pretty cool. A lot of music is vulgar poetry set to music. Linkin Park isn't?

Now, when you think about the people who listen to rap, it's mostly twentysomethings and teens, sometimes even kids. Are these the morals we want to instill in the up-and-coming generations? Drugs are cool! You'll make money as a criminal! Objectify women, they like it!


I'm listening to Danger Mouse's Grey Album right now. It's Jay-Z's Black album set to music from the Beatles' White Album. It's unbelievable.

I think that as an artform, which it really is(not a fad. Not after thirty years), rap in general isn't something detrimental to our society. It is poetry, and often it's really complicated in terms of rhyme schemes and meter. Rap is pretty cool, to me.
It's no more morally detrimental than Country music.
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Postby Solt » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:02 am UTC

Yea, because rap music is what drives young kids into gangs and a life of crime. It's not the parents that are never there, the lack of role models or a stable community environment, or hanging out with the wrong crowd. Socio-economic factors and lack of opportunity have nothing to do with it. Hell no. It's the fucking rap music that's causing all our problems. Rap music is clearly responsible for spawning a culture of violence, drugs, and crime.

Well, good thing there are people like you to warn us about the real dangers in society.
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Postby Fail » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:02 am UTC

I think I was a little over-zealous when posting this topic. I understand a lot of rap is better, and a lot of other music is worse.

Rap, (sweeping statement incoming) is generally an offender in the area's i've singled out.

I think the topic can take a civil form, and hopefully it will. I didn't mean any of this in an offensive way.

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Postby 3.14159265... » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:03 am UTC

I hate rap music, it sucks.

Its awsome to grind to.

Its music.

There is worse things people learn from the president of the US than they learn from Tupac.

Its music.
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Postby Solt » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:12 am UTC

Fail wrote:Rap, (sweeping statement incoming) is generally an offender in the area's i've singled out.




Literature reflects life.

You seem to think it's the other way around.
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Postby Miles Invictus » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:19 am UTC

Rap is bad, because it's offensive and many of its songs send a questionable moral message, which has never happened before in the history of music. :roll:

I find it odd that a lot of people not only dislike rap, but feel compelled to justify their dislike with appeals to good taste or artistic merit. Mind you, most of these people never turn that critical eye to other genres. Except maybe Country, music's other bastard child.

It's okay. People are allowed to have different tastes, even in music. You don't need to justify your feelings.

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Postby groundride » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:22 am UTC

As a huge fan of rap(though I call it(or, what I listen to) hip-hop(I'm not sure why)), I tend to blame society for popularizing music/other things of low quality more than I do said low-quality items for corrupting society.

We choose what we listen to.

Hip-hop(I'm calling it that) is one of the most diverse genres at the moment; Sweeping statements just don't work in any way. It's like criticizing all automobiles based on the H2.

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Postby xooll » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:25 am UTC

Rap doesn't do much for me, so I don't listen to it. It will only destroy the world if people play it WAY too loud and happen to also hit a resonant frequency for the earth's crust, causing it to shatter and release the magma beneath. Which is probably beyond the capabilities of any speaker system I know about (although there's always innovation...).
So, I got tired of the fact that the appearance of my band name in my signature made my posts on this forum the dominant result when googling for my music. Anyway, if you think I might happen to be a good musician, you can test this theory here.

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Postby Bakemaster » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:36 am UTC

The music is sometimes so good, the lyrics sometimes so bad. The result of an industry wherein popular artists often have little or nothing to do with the writing/composition of the tracks they rap over. There's a lot of rap/hip-hop that's bad music over bad rhymes. There's a lot of rap/hip-hop that's one or the other. There's precious little that hits solidly on both counts; the ONLY hip-hop album I enjoy entirely is Mos Def and Talib Kweli: Black Star. And that's largely a result of actually listening to it enough to get over my instinctive dismissal of it as "something I don't really listen to". I like some Outkast, I intensely disike some Outkast. And I'm never sure if people consider Gil Scott-Heron to be rap or not.

It took someone giving a presentation on "Thieves in the Night" (from that album) for a Western Civ. 2 class in college for me to realize what I was missing. I actually just now found it on youtube set to Cowboy Bebop clips; while I am a big fan of CB, the video is very poorly done and just distracts—don't watch it, just hit play and listen.
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Postby BlueNowhere » Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:49 am UTC

I didn't read any of the other posts in this thread.

Foreign rap music which you cannot understand is the best. The raping (rapping?) itself becomes part of the overall melody and rhythm of the song. If you haven't ever listened to rap in a foreign language you really should try it. It's fantastic.
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Postby Jesse » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:11 am UTC

You have confused rap with 'cheap, popular gangsta rap' which even then has its moments. I hear rap songs all the time, hell even Johnny Cash has been known to rap, albeit slowly. Regina Spektor recorded a rap song, called The Consequence of Sounds. Besides this I also love a lot of Eminem songs (When he's being profound and emotional or angry, rather than trying to be silly and jokey).

In the end, you can't complain about moral values, some of my favourite music is encouraging me to take drugs and have promiscuous sex and be violent (I love punk music). Doesn't make it bad.

Essentially what you've done here is decide you don't like a particular style of music (Fair enough, not everyone likes everything) but then you have decided to try and justify your dislike through morality, which is an awful lot of bullshit. I suggest you try some Christian Rock/Pop if you're that concerned.

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Postby thefiddler » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:23 am UTC

I don't particularly like rap, and I really dislike gangsta rap, but that doesn't disqualify it from being an actual form of art and music. Good rap does exist; you're just not looking hard enough or in the right places. Just like all genres of music, there are bands that make it look bad, but there are also bands that make it look amazing. Pick and choose carefully.

Also, don't give me this bullshit moral excuse for why you don't like ALL rap. That'd be like me trying to justify not liking any skirts and saying it's because they're all slutty and revealing. It's not true; please come up with real reason instead of recycling old excuses.

EDIT: Apparently I think about music too much. I misspelled "bad" as "band". :)
Last edited by thefiddler on Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:38 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Wired » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:26 am UTC

Rap itself isn't actually the enemy which you speak, it's the 'gangsta' attitude and actions that follow. You can't really say rap is radical because many songs contain vulgar lyrics and such. You get all sorts of music out there that is considered radical. You can't really call any music radical without calling all music radical.

Rock- Has been around longer then rap, yet you still get songs telling how he banged three chicks last night. Rap has that too, COUNTRY has that too!

Country- Traditional country is more like a story being told, modern country goes along those lines but puts more emphasis into the actual music, not the story.

(Emo) Screamo- The newest genre yet, you can hardly understand a word in the songs, and most of the music is beating up your guitar, basically letting out your emotions. It can hardly be called music, but it still holds power over an audience.

Techno- Has no lyrics yet still has power.

Orchestra- See Techno, story without lyrics, the instruments arranged to be artful and beautiful.
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Postby Swordfish » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:32 am UTC

Rock and Roll was supposed to destroy the world, once upon a time. The issues presented in rap: drugs, sex, objectification of women (Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll, right?), is nothing new to the music scene. Even the Beatles wrote songs of these natures (I can even think of one in particular that has a quick, off-hand reference to spousal abuse). Off the top of my head, I can only think of one song by the Rolling Stones that is not about sex or drugs: "Sympathy for the Devil"... and I'm not even entirely sure about that.

I don't like rap music, but if it's of a worse subject nature than what I just talked about, then it isn't much worse.

I'm going to bold and italicize this next statement because it is very true and you can use it for more then just this argument:

The media is not to blame for any behavioral problems in today's society!

The media is a real easy scapegoat because it presents these glorified images of violence, sex, drugs, and whatnot, but it is the responsibility of the parents to discuss these issues with their children and explain to them what's right and wrong about these things.

I grew up listening to rock and roll, playing violent video games and watching action movies. I'm not out on the streets shooting people, doing drugs, and having sex left and right. Why? Because my parents did a good job with raising me.
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Postby BlochWave » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:49 am UTC

The media is not to blame for any behavioral problems in today's society!


What about its coverage of cracked out partywhores like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan, elevating them to role model status and highlighting all their more awful habits? I think plenty of cases of eating disorders could be blamed on the media as well

I agree with you that things like violence and sex should be handled by responsible parents(and that raises the issue about what if the parents AREN'T responsible? Then the kid's knowledge of sex and violence are gonna come from some crazy sources, and I pray to God I never run into a man whose ideas of conflict resolution were derived from Taxi Driver) I still think that's far too broad a statement, given that kids ARE impressionable little tykes, some more than others, and in today's society TV is practically church

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Postby Wired » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:54 am UTC

I HIGHLY disagree, the media has a lot to be blamed for, they shamelessly crush our society by creating the golden image, take a look in your highschool yearbook pal. Count how many girls you can see with straight blond (bleached.) hair, lots of mascara, and a pale yet acne-free, almost flat, faces.

In my yearbook I counted 352 girls like that, I'm not even kidding, they're trying to sit into this molde that the media has created, the molde that celebrities fit into. And even then the media still nit-pick at celebrities, about a week ago they were tearing apart Hilary Duff for a little bit of belly fat.

If there is one thing in the US constitution that I think could have been a bit more elaborate, and by that I mean secure, it would be "Freedom of the press" I honestly believe they should have limited the power there.
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Postby Fail » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:07 am UTC

Despite this post's general awfulnes on my part, I think it's shaping up into a half-decent discussion.

The media plays a role on everyone, admit it or not. I'll concede that parents have the largest part to play in a child's development, but what about once parents are out of the picture? 18 and 19 year old kids are just as impressionable as anyone else, perhaps even moreso. When you look at the expectations for life in the newest generation (10-25, I'd say) you see alot of people who are completely out of place in society, and will continue to be so. If this is the media's fault, who am I to say, but the qualites valued by celebrities and athletes are valued by those who look up to them as roll models.



Side note: My original reason for posting this is the fact that I saw a long time friend who I haven't seen in 2 years tonight, and he's become completely "urbanized". Such an incredible change in a person, and it was attributed (by him, not me) to rap music. Shook me to my core, it did.

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Postby arbivark » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:10 am UTC

Not all rap is gangster rap. Just 90%. Sturgeon's law applies.
I like salt n peppa, Pete Seeger's talking blues, Professor Griff's spoken word stuff, and I'm well aware there's a lot out there that i don't know, and what you hear on the radio ain't there is, whether the genre is rock or country or lawrence welk, a top 40 format can ruin any kind of art.

But rap is a tool of aggression in part of the cold war of black anti-colonialism. It's doing to our cities what's happening in zimbabwe, zaire and haiti. I had a warehouse job i liked in february, but I was forced out of the job - couldn't stand the rap station they played; it created a hostile environment where I couldn't get my work done. Right now I'm in a rented apartment because the home I own has been taken over by the ghetto element and I'm not able to live there, too much noise, too much violence.
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Postby Gelsamel » Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:48 pm UTC

Rap is shit.

But that post about how rap is evil because it has bad lyrics and is effecting people and making them evil is bullshit.

That doesn't change the fact that rap sucks balls.
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Postby chrispy1 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:01 pm UTC

I listen to rap. A lot of it. Guys like Nate Mezmer, Reg E. Gaines, and others do political/social stuff, fighting the stereotype of the genre. Bands like Rage Against the Machine that combine rap with other forms of music - do they constitute crap in your books? Cuz Rage kicks ass, IMO.
So to say *all* rap sucks is a little too broad, and a little stereotypical. Yeah, a lot of it does suck. But there's also a lot of good stuff as well.

What about singers like Britney Spears and the other "teenie" singers? These are a much larger concern to me, as these are the CDs that parents are letting their daughters buy; my 8 year old cousin knows all the lyrics to quite a few of the songs by Spears - yet doesn't understand what she's saying. She's going around these days singing at the top of her lungs about "getting it on" with her boyfriend. But this isn't a thread about parenting, I realise that - just saying there's bad music in every genre.
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Postby TRM » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:05 pm UTC

The odd thing is that behind some of the songs by Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears or Hilary Duff are actually musical masterminds.

I mean, clearly they know how to attract the masses, albeit their musical preferences and chosen lyrics are absolutely terrible.
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Postby chrispy1 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:08 pm UTC

TRM wrote:The odd thing is that behind some of the songs by Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears or Hilary Duff are actually musical masterminds.

I mean, clearly they know how to attract the masses, albeit their musical preferences and chosen lyrics are absolutely terrible.


Good point - they know what attracts people to buy the albums, and write the songs accordingly...

ETA: V Castaway - Malmsteen's absolutely, completely win. 'nuff said.
Last edited by chrispy1 on Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:20 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Castaway » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:18 pm UTC

I don't like rap/hip-hop, but not for the usual medley of reasons, but (excepting freestyle) takes little to no creative input on the part of the artist. They write the lyrics, go into the studio, record it, and have it set to beats. There is no music, in the sense that they wrote it themselves. However, I realize this applies to far more genres and even more bands than just "rap", but we're talking about rap right now. I'm also not denying that some of those guys (I'm sure Jay Z) are brilliant, but they're brilliant business men, not musicians. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, you've got guys like Yngwie Malmsteen, whom almost nobody has heard of, but is an unbelievable musician.

However, some of the lyrics you really can't argue with. I mean, "This is why I'm hot/I'm hot 'cause I'm fly"
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.

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Postby Dr.Robert » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:46 pm UTC

The problem with rap music is the fact that I cannot see how it is actually music 90% of the time. I'm no master of the rap, but I consider it more to be like beat poetry about sexy women in clubs and wonderful drugs.

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Postby Jauss » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:02 pm UTC

I sincerely doubt that 90% of rap is of the gangsta variety.

I did grow up on gangsta rap as a kid in the 90's though (Dr. Dre, Snoop, NWA, Bone Thugs N' Harmony, Coolio, etc,) in addition to other kinds of rap and many other genres of music, and I have a soft spot for some of those semi-old skool jams. I like some of the newer stuff too at times; to me it has it's place and I think the trouble starts when people stop taking it as a description of the way things are for some people and start thinking of it as the way things should be. (I guess it's become more and more like that now; current gangsta rap is a lot different than it used to be. It's a lot more materialistic and stuff.)

It's uh, fun to dance to as well as a good way to get out aggression (like certain kinds of rock music) and sometimes you just wanna feel like an OG when you're cruising in your mama's hoopty. Also, not all songs by a given artist have the same tone or views or whatever. People are complex.

There's not just a strict dichotomy of gangsta rap vs. non-gangsta rap, but more of a continuum between rappers/songs who glorify violence, crime, heavy drug use, extreme materialism, and misogyny and those who simply tell stories of the things they see/experience (with the people in the middle just doing it for shits and giggles.) An artist might be all hard and shit on some tracks, but not on others. Even Eminem has his thoughtful stuff. There's also the theatrical element and the straight up venting.

But anyway, most of the music I listen to is not rap (although I do love it) and the great majority of the rap that I do listen to is not gangsta rap. There's just so much out there. I spent the last several hours looking up/remembering rap/hip-hop that I like and now I'm gonna be obnoxious and post a shitload of links:

Blackalicious - Chemical Calisthenics A too short clip of the beginning of a great geeky song.
Blackalicious - Alphabet Aerobics Mad skillz.
Talib Kweli - Get By
The Roots f. Erykah Badu - You Got Me One of my all time faves.
Sage Francis - Sea Lion Random kid's bmx video to the song.
Lupe Fiasco - Kick Push Fer da skaters.
Dilated Peoples - Worst Comes To Worst
Atmosphere - Trying To Find A Balance <3
Nas f. Olu Dara - Bridging The Gap
Gym Class Heroes - Taxi Driver Gotta love a hip-hop song that name drops 26 rock bands to create a story.
Gym Class Heroes - Shoot Down The Stars
Gym Class Heroes - It's Okay, But Just This Once! Stripped down live version.
Eve - Love Is Blind
Tupac - Changes
Tupac - Dear Mama
Jill Scott - A Long Walk
Lupe Fiasco f. Jill Scott - Daydreamin'
Eminem - Like Toy Soldiers
Eminem - Mosh
Jurassic 5 - The Influence
Jurassic 5 - What's Golden
Mystic - The Life
The Streets - Let's Push Things Forward Britsish hip-hop/garage
The Steets -Irony Of It All :)
The Streets - Weak Become Heroes
DMX - Who We Be
Black Eyed Peas - Where Is The Love?
Lyrics Born - Bad Dreams
De La Soul - Me, Myself and I Back in the day...
Run DMC - Rock Box Another blast from the past.
Beastie Boys - Intergalactic They're known to let the beat mmm...drop.
Outkast - B.O.B Memories...8)
Outkast - Ms. Jackson Foreva, eva?
Common - The Light
Common - Go
Common - I Have A Dream
Dead Prez - Hip Hop These guys are pretty militant, but good. It's bigger than hip-hop...
Dead Prez - Mind Sex
Dead Prez - They School
Matisyahu - King Without A Crown live Hasidic hip-hop/reggae
Linkin Park f. X-ecutioners, et al - It's Going Down Rock + hip-hop 8)
Timbuktu f. Peps Persson - Dynamit Swedish hip-hop
Timbuktu - Karmakontot
Timbuktu - Ett Brev
Bone Thugs N' Harmony - The Crossroads
Kanye West f. Jamie Foxx - Gold Digger
Coolio - Gangsta's Paradise
Fili Stylz - Rize Song and clips from the sweet documentary Rize
Michael Franti - Stay Human

Edit:

@Castaway: Some MCs play instruments or are a part of live bands like The Roots, Gym Class Heroes, etc. Some also produce their own beats. Also, it can be argued that turntables can be an instrument unto themselves.

Do you consider regular singers who write their own lyrics and are part of bands or who otherwise collaborate with others, but don't play their own instruments (at least on stage,) to not be musicians? They make music, neh?

Production of beats (and in general) is also an art form and I don't see how an MC and a producer collaborating is any less creative or musical than when two members of a regular band stop, collaborate, and listen. ;)

@Dr.Robert: Poetry + sound = music. :) If people wanna dance to it, it's probably at least technically music.
Last edited by Jauss on Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:29 am UTC, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby bavardage » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:32 pm UTC

BlochWave wrote:
Just remember a whole crap-ton of rock music, both classic and modern, is no higher on the morality scale, unless you count the (normally)lessened profanity. Rock bands often objectify women and glorify drugs(she's my cherry pie? Yah she is!). Maybe not so much the violence, as I can't think of an example offhand.


Listen to hard trance: the general absence of lyrics makes it morally higher :P
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darry
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Postby darry » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:39 pm UTC

there is so much stuff in this thread which i completely disagree with, i'm going to try and stay calm and go through it.

1) if anyone else says "rap is bad" etc i think i might eat my keyboard. that's as bad as saying "americans are stupid" or "germans are evil". rap is one of the most important genres of music since punk, in a social context, and it's one of the most innovative musical leaps of the last 50 years. without it, dance music (arguably the biggest 'new' genre since rock) would not have evolved the way it did. the individual 'hit' sampler? yeah, that was pioneered by early rap artists.

2) gangsta rap floods the charts, that is true. but there are thousands and thousands of fantastic rap artists who don't shout about 'bitches' and the like. some talk about truths, themselves, and everything else in their lyrics. try run dmc, de la soul, jurassic 5, ugly duckling. not only will you find brilliant music, but also very witty lyrics. gangsta is to rap as emo is to rock.

3) saying that jay-z is not a musician is an insult to every singer on the planet. sure, malmsteen (i'm not sure where you got the idea he was unknown, he's frequently on 3g, the biggest guitar tour in the world) can play, but i'm not sure how that makes him on the opposite end of a spectrum... rapping, like singing is not easy. nor is writing lyrics. nor are complex rhythms. jay-z is one of the most prolific writers of his genre, and while he may be a millionaire and own businesses, do not mistake this for him being merely a corporate symbol.

4) rap is a product of society. the irony of saying it causes violence is that it was originally an outlet for people who didn't want to be involved with that culture. the fact that middle class white kids now watch 50 cent and dress like morons is the fault of their disillusion and the media. not the music.

*inhale*

make of it what you will. as someone who frequently hears "music must be an easy job, you don't have to work at all!" i'm slightly protective over the whole thing.
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Benfrenchman
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Postby Benfrenchman » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:43 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ

This song is utterly fantastic. If you don't like rap (as I claimed not to once upon a time), it might just change your mind.

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thefiddler
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Postby thefiddler » Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:52 pm UTC

darry wrote:gangsta is to rap as emo is to rock.

And here, sir, is where you are wrong. Emo is commonly misclassified. Here, let me see if I can find something to help you; I'm not going through the "emo" argument again. This thread will explain my arguments on emo.

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Postby the human perl script » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:13 pm UTC

Damnit. This is one of those things where it would be a lot easier if I could fit snugly into one social pigeonhole. But I don't. And in geeky circles, I *always* end up clashing with somebody over their bigoted, sweeping dismissal of rap.

Usually, it's the old chestnut about how all rap is about guns and rape. It just doesn't make any sense. Perfectly intelligent people - normally sensible enough not to build opinions around what they see on TV - quite happily accept the garbage they see on MTV as the standard for rap.

The other common complaint is that "rap is just shit". Again, and for a similar reason, this confounds me. People who ought to know better than to confuse the subjective with the objective, telling me that an entire genre is inadequate just because they don't enjoy listening to it.

Fail, your friend is a fucking tool. This happens all the time. A tool comes across some lifestyle or subculture, falls madly in love with it, and takes a figurative bandsaw to their personality to try to fit in.

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Postby ccromwell » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:53 pm UTC

To claim that any singular music genre "sucks" in its entirety, or worse, that it is "not music" is to be ignorant, period.

I have seen the arguments made in the original post a thousand times over, and ten times out of ten they will have listened to between two and a dozen rap songs which happen to be popular on the radio and come to the conclusion that hip-hop as a whole IS WRONG and is NOT MUSIC and that IS DESTROYING OUR SOCIETY and that it is RUINING OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

The overwhelming majority of rap music that gets mainstream airplay is just... not very good, period. Lots of it is made by artists who are out more to make a quick buck than to do any kind of expressing themselves. There are exceptions to every rule, but it remains a rule nonetheless, and most hip-hop connoisseurs would agree, methinks.

Furthermore, in regards to the argument that rap music sends poor moral messages to children and young people... Where were you during the 1980's?:

Swingin' on the front porch
Swingin' on the lawn
Swingin' where we want
'Cause there ain't nobody home
Swingin' to the left
And swingin' to the right
If I think about baseball
I'll swing all night yea
Swingin' in the living room
Swingin' in the kitchen
Most folks don't 'cause
They're too busy bitchin'


The recent overtaking of rock music by rap music in mainstream circles has happened for one reason and one reason only: Because it's objectionable, and objectionable sells extremely well. But really, it's not any more objectionable than any other popular music movement. As a matter of fact, lots of popular rock music is at least as objectionable as popular rap music; observe:

Hey! You’re a crazy bitch,
but you fuck so good I'm on top of it.
When I dream I'm doing you all night,
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on.


See what I mean? But just because Buckcherry thought it would be a good idea to put out a song called Crazy Bitch, doesn't mean that rock music is WRONG AND BAD AND TEARING APART THE MORAL FABRIC OF SOCIETY, and it doesn't really even detract from the "quality" of rock music as a whole. This case, again, remains true for rap music, as there are tons upon tons of legitimately talented poets and spoken-word artists to be found underneath the big umbrella labeled "RAP/HIP-HOP."

I think it's just a fad, albeit an annoying, loud one.

It'll go away in 15 year's time.


Heh. Didn't they say that about the horrible, obscene, perverse monstrosity called "rock 'n' roll" back in the fifties too?

Rap has been around since (circa) the seventies; it may fade out of the public eye and it may cease to sell as well as it once did, but it's not going away.
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dan
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Postby dan » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:23 pm UTC

Counterexample: Soweto Kinch

The song makes more sense as part of the album, but still a great artist.

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Postby djn » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:59 am UTC

BlueNowhere wrote:I didn't read any of the other posts in this thread.

Foreign rap music which you cannot understand is the best. The raping (rapping?) itself becomes part of the overall melody and rhythm of the song. If you haven't ever listened to rap in a foreign language you really should try it. It's fantastic.


I can recommend French rap as a starting point. Not speaking french is, as he says, not at all a hindrance.
Or Swedish: Timbuktu is indeed good. Very good, even.

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Rodan
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Postby Rodan » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:14 am UTC

worst song (in my opinion) I've ever heard: Ridin' Dirty.
I watched the music video out of curiosity. I hated it. I laughed at it it was so bad. White and Nerdy rocks though.
Rap just isn't my thing...

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Postby ccromwell » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:01 am UTC

I am a big fan of artists, specifically rock artists, who have singers, but no lyrics (or, alternatively, singers, but lyrics that make very little sense); I'll look into some foreign rap.

@Rodan: The crap that you hear on the radio leaves a bad taste in most people's mouths. If you dug hard enough, though, I guarantee that there would be at least one hip-hop artist who caught your fancy.

I refuse to move in my assertion that some of the most talented spoken-word artists in the world are rappers.
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