Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Nyarlathotep » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:48 pm UTC

... you guys do realize that he was married to a Jew? And his publicist was Jewish?

He was still racist against certain other groups, but it was hardly a unique attitude at the time, yo. And man could write. ... and was crazy.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Torvaun » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:40 pm UTC

Nyarlathotep wrote:... you guys do realize that he was married to a Jew? And his publicist was Jewish?

He was still racist against certain other groups, but it was hardly a unique attitude at the time, yo. And man could write. ... and was crazy.

You do realize that even after he married her, it took a while for her influence to start making him less anti-Semitic, and that a bunch of his stories were written before that? And he went above and beyond the background racism. Even the KKK admits that blacks are -human-, and at least one of Lovecraft's stories asserted that they were closer to the apes than to people.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Klapaucius » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:57 pm UTC

I love the entire Cthulhu Mythos. It's one of the most tightly knit continuities I've seen from a short story writer; every mention of the Necronomicon, and all the other threads that run through the mythos, and of the general feeling of crawling chaos just outside our dimension.
His worlds of horror just feel more... plausible. Even if they do tend to be teetering on the brink of insanity.

Kesho wrote:Definitely. Lovecraft had one entire story (The Temple) about a German U-boat captain in WWI, who had to deal with his crew going insane after they picked up a small ivory carving of a human head. The whole thing reeks of a racial power complex, as this is one of the few stories where the protagonist does not get scared to the point of madness and the captain constantly blames the insanity and weakness of his crew on their ethnicities.


I assumed it was tongue-in-cheek. Even for Lovecraft, he was being over-the-top. Not to mention that Lovecraft himself didn't have any German blood.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Nomic » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:13 pm UTC

I'm a big fan of the Mythos, and I do like Lovecraft's writing, even tho he does indeed have a tendancy to throw confusing and archaic (even at the time of writing) words around. My worldview has always been quite pessimistic so the atmosphere of inevitable doom doesn't bother me (infact, I find the idea of an inevidable doom better than a possibly-avoidable doom cause we don't have to worry about finding a way to avoid it). Lovecraft's universe isn't actually malignant, it's just utterly uncaring of our little planet. His writing also tends to seem somehow more believable than most horror stories. I don't think vampres or ghosts or werewolves exist, but I feel like there is a chanse that there's something moving just outside the three dimensions we can perceive, and that something just might some day slide into our little buble of reality...

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Roland Lockheart » Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:41 pm UTC

Lovecraft's work has been a guilty pleasure for me. Despite the fact that he, as already been stated, essentialy uses the same concept over and over again I find that his "fill in the blank" style horror tends to appeal to certain audiences.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby fersrs » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:50 am UTC

I haven't actually read any Lovecraft but I Thought you all might like this http://www.cthuugle.com/en/

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Griffmo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:24 am UTC

Sorry to necro, but I've recently become somewhat addicted to Lovecraft. The Rats in the Walls has left me somewhat jittery, and I just finished "Call of Cthulhu" today. Any recommendations on what to read next?

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby El Spark » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:17 pm UTC

Minchandre wrote:Personally, I find that Lovecraft has some incredibly interesting ideas, but his writing is a little...well, it's a little like he was trying to pastiche early Victorian English authors (what do you mean, that's pretty much what he was?...oh.)

What are other people's opinions? Good writer, bad writer; cool ideas, freaky stuff? Favorite stories (mine is "Pickman's Model")?


I feel about Lovecraft the same way I feel about Poe: I honor the man for popularizing (or in Poe's case, more or less inventing) a particular genre that I've loved since I started reading...but I don't like either of them as writers. Yay for horror and detective fiction and short stories, though!

I feel the same way about Tolkien and fantasy.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Mega D » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:45 pm UTC

Griffmo wrote:Sorry to necro, but I've recently become somewhat addicted to Lovecraft. The Rats in the Walls has left me somewhat jittery, and I just finished "Call of Cthulhu" today. Any recommendations on what to read next?

Also I formally forward "Nigger-man" as the greatest cat name. Ever.

A couple of my favorites are The Colour Out of Space and The Outsider. I've read most of his stuff, but I read it all at once so it kind of blends together. Those, though, I remember as standing out.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Kewangji » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:45 pm UTC

I liked the Colour Out of Space, but it was too short. For once, he wrote something that wasn't a pain to read and I wanted more of that.
The Outsider was too painfully obvious to be any joy reading.
The Rats in the Walls was cool … in general I like his stories but not his writing, it's not worth it all the time to go through the pain of reading them to get to hear the interesting things, so I stopped reading him.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby cephalopod9 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:01 am UTC

I borrowed a collection of his from the library, and there was some good stuff.

I lot of it does seem pretty anti-climactic by today's standards, we expect a lot more punch from our dramatic reveals, and there's a lot of the mythos that's been sort of been pre-revealed by pop culture osmosis, or just isn't as shocking as it probably was back then.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Okapi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:37 pm UTC

Rats in the walls was actually pretty effed up. It is rare that a story makes me feel unclean and disgusted, but that did it. Fantastic.

I can't seem to remember what it's called, but there is one where the main character goes to a secluded mansion as a journalist about a supposed haunting, and finds that the family that used to own the mansion were incestuous then disappeared, after which the vagrants and gypsies around the property began to mysteriously die. That one's good.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby novax6 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:31 pm UTC

I agree that his writing is overshadowed the mythology he helped create, which I think is more important then his stories anyways. It's hard not to appreciate the great old ones and all the fantastic gods and creatures that are now a part of the mythos.

The one story I always was partial to was The Colour out of Space. That one just has a really unsettling vibe throughout the entire thing. There are parts where I get genuinely creeped out while reading it, because I can envision what he's trying to say so well, and even if maybe it's not what he was actually trying to express, it still freaks me out a bit.

Also the Call of Cthulhu pen and paper RPGs are a ton of fun too. Easily my favorite horror themed RPG.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Kewangji » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:49 pm UTC

Okapi wrote:Rats in the walls was actually pretty effed up. It is rare that a story makes me feel unclean and disgusted, but that did it. Fantastic.

I can't seem to remember what it's called, but there is one where the main character goes to a secluded mansion as a journalist about a supposed haunting, and finds that the family that used to own the mansion were incestuous then disappeared, after which the vagrants and gypsies around the property began to mysteriously die. That one's good.

That's "the Lurking Fear." It should have ended differently, but otherwise it was awesome.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Maple_fish » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:43 am UTC

novax6 wrote:The one story I always was partial to was The Colour out of Space. That one just has a really unsettling vibe throughout the entire thing. There are parts where I get genuinely creeped out while reading it, because I can envision what he's trying to say so well, and even if maybe it's not what he was actually trying to express, it still freaks me out a bit.


I know, that story really freaked me out too! There are still a lot of other Lovecraft stories I haven't read, but I think it'll take something special to shift this one as my favourite.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Dave_Wise » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:27 pm UTC

I recently read 'the case of Charles Dexter Ward' just to see if I'd like lovecraft, having heard so much about him. To be honest, I was a bit disappointed. I'd like to have been more scared by the story and less bludgeoned repeatedly with the message 'this stuff is really scary'. I might just have picked a dud, though. All authors sometimes write a turkey. It wasn't as bad as that though. It was quite readable, and I was kept amused enough to finish it without wandering off to read discworld. I'd like to read more, just out of curiosity.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Kewangji » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:33 pm UTC

Dave_Wise wrote:I recently read 'the case of Charles Dexter Ward' just to see if I'd like lovecraft, having heard so much about him. To be honest, I was a bit disappointed. I'd like to have been more scared by the story and less bludgeoned repeatedly with the message 'this stuff is really scary'. I might just have picked a dud, though. All authors sometimes write a turkey. It wasn't as bad as that though. It was quite readable, and I was kept amused enough to finish it without wandering off to read discworld. I'd like to read more, just out of curiosity.

Try Herbert West - Reanimator. He always smacks the reader on the head with the message that his story is scary, but Herbert West - Reanimator is really well done despite that. Full of racism, though.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Dave_Wise » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:38 pm UTC

I'll take a look. Thanks.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby morjax » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:50 pm UTC

I'm most of the way through at the mountains of madness (I just finished the shunned house), and it's the first HPL I've read. I've been meaning to check out the Cthulhu mythos for a while and finally am starting to get around to it. any suggestions on what books are worth reading (even if only worth reading once)? I arbitrarily chose to start with At the Mountains of Madness, because it's what the library had in stock at the time.

edit: I suppose I want to know if I should read them in any certain order or if there are some I shouldn't miss, rather than specifically what to read (since I think 17 stories are mentioned above).

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby tuseroni » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:11 am UTC

i for one LOVE pretty much everything by HP lovecraft, least what ive read. i downloaded as far as i know everything he has written from aldiko on my droid (which makes a great book reader btw...) so far i have read:
at the mountains of madness
the shadow out of time
the shadow over insmouth
nyarlathotep
the outsider
the case of charles dexter ward
the testimony of randolph carter (which i was happy to see carter mentioned in the case of charles dexter ward)
ex oblivione
the dunwich horror
at the mountains of madness (or as i call it "everything you ever wanted to know about elder things but were to paralyzed with fear to ask")
dreams in the witch house
call of cthulhu
beyond the wall of sleep
dagon
the beast in the cave (who didnt see that ending coming...honestly...)
started the crawling chaos, stopped when i found out it wasnt about nyarlathotep...may come back...
the evil clergyman
the festival
the haunter of the dark (the three lobed burning eye!!!!)
the alchemist

and i have loved them all (some more than others)

i do love the narrative style of many of them, like the case of charles dexter ward it never follow ward himself but it puts together evidence and testimonial of people around him (all of this written some time after the supposed events) as was the case with at the mountains of madness, the whole narrative was written after the fact after much reflection only scant bits actually being written at the time "letters usually" same with the statement of randolph carter
ex oblivione is however more of an odd ball...since i believe the narrative follows him all the way into death....
the fantasy elements in the dream cycle are quite interesting...im am a fan of both fantasy and sci-fi...i also tend to play magic users in rpgs (both video game and pen & paper) so the dream cycle stories always have a way of fascinating me, but as a fan of sci-fi his later works also interest me quite a bit.
though i tend to disagree on his primary idea, that being that there are things mankind shouldn't learn, and i blame him for this being echoed in ever sci-fi movie ever made since. i understand where he was coming from, as a rejection of the ideals of the enlightenment, and in that scope, in that view i can almost forgive him. personally i believe the way you fix a problem caused by knowledge is with more knowledge("If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. "~isaac asimov.), the people's ignorance of the old ones wont stop them from returning, but it seems yog-sothoth can be convinced to help.

and sometimes lovecrafts verbosity is quite offset by the repetitious use of certain words (non-euclidean i can accept...non-euclidean geometry was a big new thing at the time...when this was written...einstein was a contemporary. he finally put it to rest when he proved the universe is hyperbolic (non-euclidean) i think at the time of writing nyarlathotep nikola tesla was a contemporary...the person nyarlathotep's avatar in the story is believed to be based on. ) such as non-euclidean, eldrich,cyclopean, etc...and most of this i let go for the things he describes are such that not many words can well do them justice and those were very powerful words in the day, now adays we hear cyclopean not too many think "gigantic" i think most just think "its got one eye?" but cyclopean of the time kinda meant "was huge beyond all reason" actually you can draw some parallels between the cyclops at the end of homers odyssey and cthulhu rising up from r'lyeh at the end of call of cthulhu.
in many ways his style of story telling can be seen today, such as cloverfield shown from the perspective of someone who doesnt know when to put down the camera or signs the bits and pieces of news pieces surrounding the event but never fully just showing it happening...same with the happening...though that was more or less the only thing i liked about either of those movies...
i like how they give you the story in bits and pieces, like you would get it if it happened in real life and you are left to fill in the rest...
and lovecraft is perhaps best not for what he DOES describe...but what he doesnt (even if it pissed me off like what the hell did he bring up from the salts in the case of charles dexter ward, or what the hell do the deep ones look like...)
i loved the shadow out of time, because i am a big fan of libraries and especially of learning things...and the idea...the mere idea of a library full of all of human knowledge of the past, present, and future, and of knowledge far removed from humanity just makes me wet...thinking about what i would do in the face of such a treasure trove...i would have gotten eaten by flying polyps no doubt about it. because if i saw that i would stumbling over myself running towards it...and then i would never leave if i got there...i could spend my entire life in a place like that...i wonder if yog-sothoth could help...you know...summon like lightning or something to take care of the polyps...i know yog-sothoth isnt a nice...thing...but you know...be convincing...might have to kill some people in exchange...but...hey...i could go to lengths on how many people i would kill for that opportunity.
and when he gets there all he takes is the thing he wrote centuries ago....i mean...i guess thats fine...it would convince people it happened, and that there is a library full of the sum of human knowledge...which would get more people combing the desert...not that they could fight the flying polyps...

suffice to say...im a big fan.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Glmclain » Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:30 am UTC

Holy fuck, wall of text + no spellcheck AHHHRGH.

Also: Am I the only one that genuinely enjoys the racism in his stories? They definitely add flavor and humor.

Although racism is obviously bad, the guy was clearly delusional about racial stuff, and it's hilarious to see it jotted down on paper.

Any man who would name a cat "Nigger-Man" is a funny guy in my book, awful intentions or not.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby tuseroni » Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:00 am UTC

um...i have a spell checker...and it didnt catch any misspelled words....
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Kewangji » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:21 am UTC

It mostly annoys me or makes me bang my head against the wall. Albeit, that cat was hilarious.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Glmclain » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:21 am UTC

The part in "Herbert West" with the bongo drums made me laugh my ass off. I'm chortling as I write this just thinking about it.
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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Manticorehunter » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:46 am UTC

All I read was Call of Cthulhu, and it honestly was just a pretty big disappointment. The concept, obviously, was amazing, but as it approached the climax I kept feeling like I had to convince myself to be scared. He was telling me how scary it was, but I was simply not feeling it at all. That seems to me like a pretty big dealbreaker when it comes to horror stories.

That being said, I probably need to read a couple more of his stories to get a better idea of his work.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby rat4000 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:56 am UTC

Yeah, CoC isn't very good, what with just being a rehash of "Dagon" and having a disappointing anticlimax and all. Try "The Rats in the Walls" and "The Colour from Outer Space", those are really frightening and, in both, the ending is the best part.

Also, if you're not only looking for horror, try "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath". It's basically a guy walking through the land of dreams, going to the moon at one point, meeting ghouls, being rescued by cats... it's really cool because it has this wonderful feeling of being an actual dream, so nothing is too weird or improbable and also because, while the guy is wandering, Lovecraft describes all the places he's passing through in his patently awesome purple prose. It's... beautiful.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Manticorehunter » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:58 am UTC

Thanks a lot. I read the two horror stories, and I'm planning on reading the other one as well.

Someone earlier on this thread mentioned something about Lovecraft being a big fan of Edgar Allan Poe, and I could definitely see that in The Rats in the Walls. What I liked about it was that he added a large heap of something Poe never would have touched on. I think this story has aged better than Poe's work because it's about a subject that people today would still find unsettling.

The Colour out of Space was also a good horror read. I couldn't exactly put my finger on what exactly made it so unsettling, which works to the author's advantage.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby rat4000 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:55 pm UTC

Hm, while you're reading horror: "The Peabody Heritage" is another story of his that really worked for me, and "The Haunter of the Dark", while not as scary, is also good.

About The Colour: I think it's just the sheer otherness of the thing. It's so incomprehensible and yet so clearly deadly that it manages to invoke that feeling of the unknown which brings horror to the lizard-brain. This is what Lovecraft wished to achieve in his works which aimed to scare, so it's no surprise that this story was his personal favourite (or so I heard, at least).

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby Czhorat » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:01 pm UTC

There's much to like about Lovecraft's writing and his influence on the genre, but it's hard to get away from not only his blatant racism in how he consistently describes various ethnic groups as degenerate and almost beast-like but his larger message that the "other" is to be hated and feared and offers nothing for us to understand. There's something deeply xenophobic about HPL's overall vision and philosophy which, for me, leaves a very sour taste.

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Re: Cthulhu! (Well, Lovecraft in general)

Postby PatrickRsGhost » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:42 am UTC

I ordered the Commemorative Edition of the Necronomicon about a week ago from Amazon. It arrived today at work. Luckily no one was around when I opened the package. Let the mindfucking begin.
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