Twilight?

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casiguapa
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Re: Twilight?

Postby casiguapa » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:23 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:An interesting defence of the books I heard from a friend's sister: "They're realistic because I remember feeling like that with regards to a boy in the past".

I believe you should quarantine your friend's sister, it's the only way
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Re: Twilight?

Postby cathrl » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:31 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:An interesting defence of the books I heard from a friend's sister: "They're realistic because I remember feeling like that with regards to a boy in the past".


I've felt like that too - for maybe a couple of weeks. Then I started having a life as well as being in love.

I've been married to him for 15 years, btw. And graduated university, and had kids, and still have friends and hobbies which he doesn't. "True Love" does not involve being in the continuous state of slightly physically nauseating "wow, this is amazing, I really love him" which hits you when you first fall in love, and which Bella appears to be permanently stuck in.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

I don't think she thought she was in "True Love" either...
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Re: Twilight?

Postby rat4000 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:36 pm UTC

I don't really agree with at least four of the points in the last review, though I'll take the time to refute them later. I'll say that you are making two typical hater's mistakes: assuming that the author is less able than they actually are simply because they aren't particularly able and believing that every book should be high literature.

The main mistake Meyer made is, on reflection, her attempt to make a 17-year old behave like a 13-year old. Her "love" is the love 13-year olds feel and her jumping between moods and generally being illogical is also more easily associated with pre-puberty than with the late stages of puberty. It's the reason why people in the ages between 13 and 15 (or people who have not read much and have no sense of what a realistic character is) are the book's main audience; also, it is the reason why people who have read a lot dislike it.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:26 pm UTC

cathrl wrote:
Amarantha wrote:
Kendo_Bunny wrote:Typo, page 71: only to remember after I began three that the hero of the story happened to be named Edward.

“I snapped the book shut, annoyed, and rolled over onto my back.” I have a hard time believing she gets anything out of reading, if she forgets the names of the lead characters of her “favorite” novels. That definitely points to a major lack of reading comprehension. Then again, the fact that she thinks her and Edward’s relationship mirrors Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy’s also speaks to a major lack of reading comprehension…
Wait, what book is she reading? Because Mr. Darcy's name is Fitzwilliam...


I imagine it's Jane Eyre - Rochester's called Edward.


which would be an even more hilariously poor comparison for her to make.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby Kendo_Bunny » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:34 pm UTC

She's reading Sense and Sensibility, her "favorite book". Then she switches to Mansfield Park before realizing that that hero's name is Edmund. And the chapter is called 'Nightmare'.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby rat4000 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:45 pm UTC

As promised:

“In his place was a large red-brown wolf with black eyes.” Because Native Americans are just like wolves. More clumsy foreshadowing.
No, because she was told that his people were werewolves. Why not have a dream of him turning into a wolf?

“Fishing again.” I don’t know why she assumes this… he is the Chief of Police. Then again, she doesn’t seem in the least bit interested in his comings and goings.
Because he likes fishing and because there is no crime in Forks, ever or almost ever.

And she’s back to making things up. While the myth of the “Charitable Witch Doctor” (the actual translation of Stregoni benefici [why is only the first word italicized?]) isn’t too bad, it makes no sense that it would be applied to a vampire. It seems more like something that fought against vampires would be classified as something else- see Abraham van Helsing.
"It seems more like" isn't valid criticism.

“My sense of direction was hopeless; I could get lost in much less helpful surroundings.” I’m kind of torn on this. On one hand, it makes Bella into a totally helpless female yet again. On the other, I also have a terrible sense of direction. I guess I’ll take this as another token attempt at making her flawed.
From what I've read, no one saves her from anything caused by her clumsiness. I mean, come on, how is that a flaw? The worst that can happen is that you suck at sports and maybe sprain an ankle. I think Meyer knows this, and the clumsiness was an attempt to make Bella more interesting, not flawed. It actually succeeds sometimes, like this time you quoted. At other times, it fails abysmally. Sure, she's not a very good writer, but give her knowing what a character flaw is, eh? I think Bella's actual intended flaw is not caring much for friends. She's nice to them sometimes (going to buy clothes with them, for instance, as we see later), but mostly ignores them. And she's easily angered. These two last traits were, admittedly, overdone and made her unrealistic (as said in my last post), but, hey, at least she tried.

“Everyone was in t-shirts, some even in shorts though the temperature couldn't be over sixty.” And yet, two weeks ago, there was a foot of snow on the ground.
Which is quite possible, if unlikely, in Forks' latitude.

“He was so delighted to see me, I couldn't help but feel gratified.” Yeah, I totally believe he’s a huge jerk who’s just trying to get into Bella’s pants. Why is it that SMeyer has to ret-con everyone into worse than Edward?
She doesn't. All she has to do is say Bella doesn't love them. Which she doesn't. Because the central idea of the story is that love knows neither bound nor reason.

Enough of being devil's advocate for today.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby Kendo_Bunny » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

In Midnight Sun she has Edward reading Mike and Jessica's minds to tell us that Mike is a rapscallion and Jessica is a jealous, overbearing bitch. That's what I mean by ret-conning: she's too poor a writer to give hints to their actual characters, so she must tell us outright that these are horrible people.

Also, I don't think Bella should be worrying about who she loves or doesn't: she hasn't known anyone for longer than three weeks, and given how she ignores everyone, I'd say she has no idea of anyone's personality, except Lauren's.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby Snicklefrits » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:57 am UTC

My mother in law knows I "like to read" and got me all of the Twilight books for my birthday. I'm a little scared, but it was (technically) a really thoughtful gift, so I'm going to bite the bullet and read them. Hopefully I'll have something witty to contribute.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby echoingsilence » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:18 am UTC

Snicklefrits wrote:My mother in law knows I "like to read" and got me all of the Twilight books for my birthday. I'm a little scared, but it was (technically) a really thoughtful gift, so I'm going to bite the bullet and read them. Hopefully I'll have something witty to contribute.


Yeah, my family/extended family/parents friends all know I like to read, and happen to be female, so I now am a (not so?) proud owner of all of SMeyers books. And I read them all because I didn't want any of them to feel bad. Thank god my friends know me better...

In Midnight Sun she has Edward reading Mike and Jessica's minds to tell us that Mike is a rapscallion and Jessica is a jealous, overbearing bitch. That's what I mean by ret-conning: she's too poor a writer to give hints to their actual characters, so she must tell us outright that these are horrible people.

hmmm, yeah, that was pretty poorly done. That said, I felt so terrible for SMeyer after her book got leaked. That's awful for any author/artist, regardless of how good the book is.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby cathrl » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:58 am UTC

rat4000 wrote:I don't really agree with at least four of the points in the last review, though I'll take the time to refute them later. I'll say that you are making two typical hater's mistakes: assuming that the author is less able than they actually are simply because they aren't particularly able and believing that every book should be high literature.


I'll give you the first. Meyer is not a very able author, but she is certainly more able than most of her target audience. If a 13 year old wrote that, I'd be fairly impressed - but I do regularly read comments about how she writes worse than kids that age. That said, writing better than most 13 year olds is hardly resounding praise. I stop giving people points for trying the moment their work is published. That includes posting on fanfic sites, never mind a professional book!

The second- no. I'm afraid you're making a typical lover's mistake: believing that people who don't like Twilight don't like it for some other reason than the book itself. They don't like romance, or they don't like YA fiction, or they don't like anything except high literature, or they haven't actually read it - it can't possibly be Twilight itself they don't like. That simply isn't true in my case. Very little of what I enjoy reading is high literature, and much of it is YA fiction. I don't enjoy the Uglies series, or Noughts and Crosses, because they are high literature - they aren't. I enjoy them because they are well-written and I can believe in how the characters act and interact. "High literature" and "well written" are not one and the same thing.

rat4000 wrote:The main mistake Meyer made is, on reflection, her attempt to make a 17-year old behave like a 13-year old. Her "love" is the love 13-year olds feel and her jumping between moods and generally being illogical is also more easily associated with pre-puberty than with the late stages of puberty. It's the reason why people in the ages between 13 and 15 (or people who have not read much and have no sense of what a realistic character is) are the book's main audience; also, it is the reason why people who have read a lot dislike it.


This is true - and the thing is, it's the love 13 year olds feel for people they don't even know. It's the type of love that Jonas Brothers fans have. That young teens feel for Alex Pettifer or Zac Efron. And what do they do about their love? They write fanfic about it, in which instead of squealing and hiding and doing all the things that they'd really do if they actually got to speak to their hero, they get to know and become important to them. That's why Twilight has such a strong young teen fanfic feel. Her 17 year old doesn't behave like a 13 year old (trust me, my daughter will be one in a few weeks, I know plenty of 13 year old girls). She behaves how a 13 year old thinks 17 year olds behave.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby rat4000 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:03 pm UTC

That second point I made because of Kendo's point about the modem. My defintion of "High Literature" is "a book where every word either advances the action or the character, or poses some deep question that we should think on muchly". The point about the modem only holds if one thinks Twilight should be one of those books. It's not particularly boring, not more than that scene with the boggart in HP 3, and I didn't hate it. Perhaps I should have just attacked the point rather than made a generalization, though: apologies, Kendo.

I'll give you knowing 13 year olds better than me :)

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Re: Twilight?

Postby Kendo_Bunny » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:18 pm UTC

It's all right, but the boggart did slightly advance the point by showing 'Hey, that Lupin sounds like a fun teacher!' and 'I wonder why he wouldn't let Harry tackle it?'. Bella describes in detail going down the stairs, getting a bowl of cereal, chewing each mouthful carefully, washing the dish and putting it away, going up the stairs, and sitting down in front of the computer. She could have described that in two sentences: 'The dial-up here was so insanely slow. I had time to have breakfast and even wash the cereal bowl before it loaded enough to be useful.'. SMeyer's biggest technical problem is she doesn't know when to stop with the irrelevant details, and it just adds mountains of superfluous text to her books.

We don't need to know what Bella is wearing every moment, what the clouds look like, what she had for dinner, and what order she did her homework in, just like we don't need her reminding us every other page that she hates the rain and she hate hates HATES Forks. We also don't need her reminding us every time she sees Edward that he's really, really, ridiculously good-looking. And yet, every time there is rain, we get treated to another paragraph on how she hates rain and Forks sucks and is stupid, and every time she sees Edward, we're treated to about 200 words on how insanely gorgeous he is and how she just wants to ogle him.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby thatguy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

To jump back to my previous post, I've decided to write a "Growing Up Cullen"-type sketch, basically playing all the characters in a way which the fangirls will think is blasphemous.

As for the Dial-up type scenes, I think SMeyer was trying to go for how mundane Bella thinks life is without Wardo. The problem is she does it inconsistantly and we're already being beaten about the head with "EDWARD IS TEH GREATIST!!!!!1"

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Re: Twilight?

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:14 am UTC

Kendo_Bunny wrote:We don't need to know what Bella is wearing every moment,


I think the target audience does. But as I've noted before, that's like Clancy books don't need details of what calibre ammunition a certain gun takes and where it was manufactured. People like reading about that sort of thing.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby podbaydoor » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:31 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
Kendo_Bunny wrote:We don't need to know what Bella is wearing every moment,


I think the target audience does. But as I've noted before, that's like Clancy books don't need details of what calibre ammunition a certain gun takes and where it was manufactured. People like reading about that sort of thing.

Any (former) "Babysitter's Club" fan knows and remembers this. I bet someone in this thread still has fond memories of Claudia's crazy earrings and lime green shirts and every detail of Stacy's belts.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby echoingsilence » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:59 am UTC

podbaydoor wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:
Kendo_Bunny wrote:We don't need to know what Bella is wearing every moment,


I think the target audience does. But as I've noted before, that's like Clancy books don't need details of what calibre ammunition a certain gun takes and where it was manufactured. People like reading about that sort of thing.

Any (former) "Babysitter's Club" fan knows and remembers this. I bet someone in this thread still has fond memories of Claudia's crazy earrings and lime green shirts and every detail of Stacy's belts.


I always hated those books. But the point holds... look at other books aimed at the same target audience, like Gossip Girl, The Clique, et al
Every paragraph has some sort of high end product placement, and people seem to like it.

To jump back to my previous post, I've decided to write a "Growing Up Cullen"-type sketch, basically playing all the characters in a way which the fangirls will think is blasphemous


Oh, I'd love to see that, sounds hilarious. Have you guys seen the Twilight parody on youTube? It's pretty funny.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby _antimony_ » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:39 am UTC

wow. people have lots to say about this book. i don't. i just love it. ^.^
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Re: Twilight?

Postby TaintedDeity » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:37 am UTC

You don't have lots to say about something you love? That's a little strange.
Why do you love it?
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Re: Twilight?

Postby _antimony_ » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:49 pm UTC

well, i mean. there are many things that bother me movie-wise, but the book. i love the plot. I'm a sucker for the fantasy stuff. Vampires that don't like killing humans and don't die in the sun. it is interesting to me since it isn't the "normal"
vampire way?. Also, the human-vampire realtionship. It's very interesting with the werewolves thrown in too. the only thing that bothers me is how all the books are very much the same, like how theres always a battle or something. i mean, yeah, the book wouldn't be good otherwise, but.. i dont really know how to phrase it. i love the book, but i don't have alot to say. i'm sorry?
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Re: Twilight?

Postby thatguy » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:00 am UTC

Well, ok.

I can see and tolerate someone liking it. I mean, I know I've read books that others would call stupid and pointless and poorly written that I've enjoyed.

I cannot, however, stand someone calling it great literature and declaring it the best series of all time.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby Shro » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:52 am UTC

Hey guys, we can't stand the fact the twilight is horrible fluff fiction geared towards females! Never mind that almost all the fantasy books out there are geared towards males! Oh what you say? The Wheel of TIme is epic fantasy? The books where the main protagonist gets three wives? That actually has a plot though, right? 10,000 meandering pages of plot?

Guys, seriously, get over yourselves. Twilight is shitty fiction, yes. But it's for girls. And girls like it. After a million and one books and movies about the guy getting the girl, can we not have one series about the girl getting the guy?
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Re: Twilight?

Postby Kendo_Bunny » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:00 am UTC

I'm a girl, and I think 'Twilight' is insulting to females.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby natraj » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:21 am UTC

Kendo_Bunny wrote:I'm a girl, and I think 'Twilight' is insulting to females.


That's because it is. Horribly insulting to females. I'd be happy with "one story about the girl getting the guy" if it were not a completely obnoxious misogynistic story about a creepy abusive relationship where he treats her more like his property than his partner.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby Marbas » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:41 am UTC

Wheel of Time doesn't inspire a cultish and frightening devotion in its' fanbase.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby michaelandjimi » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:26 am UTC

Marbas wrote:Wheel of Time doesn't inspire a cultish and frightening devotion in its' fanbase.
Clearly you haven't been on the internet.
Shro wrote:Hey guys, we can't stand the fact the twilight is horrible fluff fiction geared towards females! Never mind that almost all the fantasy books out there are geared towards males! Oh what you say? The Wheel of TIme is epic fantasy? The books where the main protagonist gets three wives? That actually has a plot though, right? 10,000 meandering pages of plot?

Guys, seriously, get over yourselves. Twilight is shitty fiction, yes. But it's for girls. And girls like it. After a million and one books and movies about the guy getting the girl, can we not have one series about the girl getting the guy?
I don't recall anyone in this thread complaining that it was too girly, or that Meyer didn't spend enough time with swords or empathising with men or what-have-you. I'm actually quite a fan of romance - regardless of which gender the text in question is geared to. I'm not a fan of Meyer's because it's not well-written, it places multiple abusive and misogynistic relationship on a pedestal and a variety of other reasons that I've actually thought about for a while.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby casiguapa » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:54 am UTC

I'm one of the girliest girls I'll ever know, and I love a good sappy weepy book or movie as much as the next gal, but even I see that Twilight is not only offensive to women, but promoting an awful ideal about relationships and the dynamic within relationships to tweens
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Re: Twilight?

Postby _antimony_ » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:22 am UTC

thatguy wrote:Well, ok.

I can see and tolerate someone liking it. I mean, I know I've read books that others would call stupid and pointless and poorly written that I've enjoyed.

I cannot, however, stand someone calling it great literature and declaring it the best series of all time.


oh yea. it is definately not the greates literature or best series of all time. it's written in an easy level to read and just straight out there. in my opinion, writers like mary higgans clark write better. but i still like/love the book. like i said before, i'm just a sucker for fantasy stories.

casiguapa wrote:I'm one of the girliest girls I'll ever know, and I love a good sappy weepy book or movie as much as the next gal, but even I see that Twilight is not only offensive to women, but promoting an awful ideal about relationships and the dynamic within relationships to tweens



i don't see how it is offensive to women or girls, but i completely agree on the realtionship thing. i've seen or heard many girls comparing their relationships to that of edward and bella. i really want to scream at them that they are probably not gonna find a relationship like that, fantasy or not. this book does put too many relationship ideas in girls heads, but it doesn't affect me, thank goodness.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby michaelandjimi » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:24 am UTC

_antimony_ wrote:i don't see how it is offensive to women or girls
See: Basically the entire rest of this thread.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby suffer-cait » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:35 am UTC

_antimony wrote:i've seen or heard many girls comparing their relationships to that of edward and bella. i really want to scream at them that they are probably not gonna find a relationship like that, fantasy or not. this book does put too many relationship ideas in girls heads, but it doesn't affect me, thank goodness.
that's not exactly why this is bad, yes the ideas being put into girls heads is bad, but i don't think you're seeing the same ideas being put into their heads as the rest of us. to understand that better...
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Re: Twilight?

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:38 pm UTC

_antimony_ wrote:i don't see how it is offensive to women or girls, but i completely agree on the realtionship thing. i've seen or heard many girls comparing their relationships to that of edward and bella. i really want to scream at them that they are probably not gonna find a relationship like that, fantasy or not. this book does put too many relationship ideas in girls heads, but it doesn't affect me, thank goodness.
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Guy who watches you sleep, swallows your waking thoughts and generally puts himself in a position of where he is the center of your universe and you would be completely lost and alone without him is not a good thing. It's a very bad thing. I don't care how loving and kind he may seem - a guy that would do that is anything but.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby natraj » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:26 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Guy who watches you sleep, swallows your waking thoughts and generally puts himself in a position of where he is the center of your universe and you would be completely lost and alone without him is not a good thing. It's a very bad thing. I don't care how loving and kind he may seem - a guy that would do that is anything but.


Don't forget things like: threatens you with physical restraint (because he is infinitely stronger than you and you have NO way of overcoming him physically) if you do not listen to his orders of where you're allowed to go/who you're allowed to hang out with, dismantles your mode of transportation to take away your independence and force you to only spend time with the people he allows you to, when he disapproves of your friends -- you know, I could keep going a lot through the books but I'll skip to the fourth cuz it's the most horrifyingly egregious:
When you are pregnant, completely disregards your bodily autonomy and threatens to open you up and terminate your pregnancy without your consent (indeed, with you very emphatic and repeated protests), to the point where you need to be under constant guard for the sole purpose of ensuring that he does not come in and perform an abortion on you against your will.
And then, because you're being guarded and he can't manage to force you to have an abortion, goes and tries to barter you off to your best friend while you're bedridden, in a scene that pretty much goes: "Hey, I tried to force her to have an abortion and she won't, but maybe if I give her to you, you can convince her to, and then you can have her and impregnate her instead" -- cuz, you know, her body is entirely yours to decide what to do with.

...so, yeah. Screw Meyer and that whole series. It is the most appalling piece of fiction I have read in a while, from the point of view of "terrible misogynist things it is teaching to girls"
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Kendo_Bunny
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Re: Twilight?

Postby Kendo_Bunny » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:00 pm UTC

The sad thing is that many girls will find a relationship like that... not with the totally rich, totally hot guy, but a guy who likes to control them all the same. Edward is always telling Bella what she can and can't do, who she can or can't see, and how she can and can't behave. He doesn't ask her about her interests- he just assumes them. He doesn't care about her sexual needs or desires. He offers to whore her out "for her own good", without ever asking if she wants to be whored out.

There are plenty of guys in the world who are ridiculously controlling, obscenely jealous, and mind-blowingly selfish. I'm sure these girls will all find one since that's what they want.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby cathrl » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

Shro wrote: After a million and one books and movies about the guy getting the girl, can we not have one series about the girl getting the guy?


Yes, let's have that. Let's have a series where a girl gets a guy with whom she has lots in common, who treats her with respect and as an equal, who talks to her, who she actively enjoys spending time with. In short, someone who she actually loves.

Twilight is not this series. Twilight is the equivalent of a book or movie where the girl who the guy gets prevents him from ever watching sports again because she doesn't approve, or from going out and having a beer with his mates because it's unhealthy. She manipulates him to keep him at home and humiliates him repeatedly, every time he suggests he might do something that doesn't involve her. But he has to stay with her even though his life as an individual has been systematically destroyed, because she's a DD cup and he loves her because big breasts are so gorgeously irresistible. It says so on every page.

Shro wrote:And girls like it.


I'm a girl. No, I don't.

Kendo_Bunny wrote:There are plenty of guys in the world who are ridiculously controlling, obscenely jealous, and mind-blowingly selfish. I'm sure these girls will all find one since that's what they want.


Yup. And five years later they will be single mums of two kids desperately trying to make ends meet, since Super Dads like this rarely have any interest in actually paying for their children's upkeep. I know lots and lots of disillusioned women who have realised far too late that their infatuation for their oh so caring and romantic Edward wasn't True Love after all.

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Re: Twilight?

Postby _antimony_ » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:24 pm UTC

but you see, any girl who isn't immersed in the story realizes it is just a story. fantasy. nothing like that is real [except for the controlling boyfriends, that can happen]. the sad part is, a lot of girls are immersed in it and find themselves desiring for that fantasy world. heck, i believe certain things about the story would be great to have in a relationship, but i don't look for those because i got those ideas from a story. i just pity the girls who find themselves needing their [edward/bella] kind of situation.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby Delalyra » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:57 am UTC

I'm frightened for them, antimony. For the people who can realize that these books are about an abusive relationship and can distance themselves from it while still enjoying the fluff, fine (I'm not capable of that much cognitive dissonance, but fine).

For the how many thousands or millions of girls who don't, this book is bad. It's bad because it holds up an abusive relationship and says "this is true love! this story is so romantic and these people are people you want to be like!" ...and the many, many girls who don't realize that no, it's not are fucked.

(NB I have not read the books, I'm basing my "abusive relationship" claims on what people here, who are generally trustworthy, have said.)
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Re: Twilight?

Postby _antimony_ » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:49 am UTC

Delalyra wrote:I'm frightened for them, antimony. For the people who can realize that these books are about an abusive relationship and can distance themselves from it while still enjoying the fluff, fine (I'm not capable of that much cognitive dissonance, but fine).

For the how many thousands or millions of girls who don't, this book is bad. It's bad because it holds up an abusive relationship and says "this is true love! this story is so romantic and these people are people you want to be like!" ...and the many, many girls who don't realize that no, it's not are fucked.

(NB I have not read the books, I'm basing my "abusive relationship" claims on what people here, who are generally trustworthy, have said.)


oh yea, i know. i know girls who look for that, even though they know they aren't going to find it, and it makes me sad for them. i love the realtionship in the book because of the fantasy and how i know nothing like that is truly gonna happen for most everyone.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby Delalyra » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:11 am UTC

You're underestimating the statistics. How's 1 in 3 sound? It does truly happen to most everyone, including-- fancy that-- a lot of teens the same age as our protagonists.
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Re: Twilight?

Postby VannA » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:13 am UTC

I revel in the hate. It feeds me.

I have held my stance, and refused to read them. I seem to be continually proven wise :P
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Re: Twilight?

Postby TaintedDeity » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:33 am UTC

_antimony_ wrote:
Delalyra wrote:I'm frightened for them, antimony.
oh yea, i know. i know girls who look for that, even though they know they aren't going to find it, and it makes me sad for them. i love the realtionship in the book because of the fantasy and how i know nothing like that is truly gonna happen for most everyone.
I'm not entirely sure you get this part.
People aren't frightened/worried because readers will be disillusioned and never get the wonderful relationship B&E have because the relationship isn't wonderful.
People are worried the readers will think this terrible relationship is wonderful and normal when it's not, it's horribly sexist and abusive.

So yes, it's a bad thing, but not because the readers won;t ever get a relationship like that, that would be a good thing.
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