The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

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The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:30 am UTC

So Dune is pretty much my favorite book series EVAR. I was wondering what everyone else who read it thought of it.

Personally I thought that Dune itself was damned brilliant, but that Dune Messiah and Children of Dune took too much of there time on scheming and not enough on showing me what actually happened. God Emperor of Dune returned to form with its erudite-if-rambling philosophical bits by Leto II, particularly his ideas about his own impact on the human universe, but then the two last books just seemed to go off and do something else. They weren't actually bad, they just seemed to have moved away from what the other four Dune books were about and rather failed to draw the scenery of their worlds thoroughly enough for my imagination to render. I also hated the open misandry of the Bene Gesserit and Honored Matres alike. Apparently in the post-GEoD Duniverse men are just useless in any fashion except as servants of women, eh?

Now, if you wanted to actually decide what the Dune books were about... there's a challenge. The themes of ecology, religion, economics, politics, and human nature appear to have gotten all tangled up. For one thing, how in hell did the Duniverse move from the world we have today - consisting politically of fascisms, dictatorships, and democracies - to a feudal Imperium based on noble houses? After the Butlerian Jihad? By dependence on the spice? Or did the Bene Gesserit engineer a feudal culture for their breeding schemes? Interestingly, does anyone think that if an actual Butlerian Jihad occurred a useful fraction of human beings could adapt to perform the tasks currently done by machines? After all, Frank Herbert's greatest error in creating the computer-free culture of Dune seems to have been vastly ignoring or underestimating Moore's Law, and therefore the impact of cheap, ubiquitous "thinking machines" on society.

And lastly, the original Dune made me wonder why ecological engineering, that is the engineering of ecosystems, has not yet blossomed into a full and quantitative science. It seems stuck in a "conservation and preservation" stage that prevents large-scale research towards changing ecosystems to meet human needs, despite the fact that building greenhouses, draining swamps, and planting deserts are all primitive forms of ecological engineering that humanity has practiced for centuries.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby eightysevendegrees » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:30 am UTC

I love Dune. It's one of my favourite books. It has so much depth, so many varied characters and such well-woven plots. I especially loved the way it was never really clear whether Paul really was someone fulfilling the local prophecies, or whether the prophecies had been written intentionally vague so that he was able to fulfil them.

It's one of those books that can be read on many levels. You can just read the surface story and enjoy a good adventure, or you can look deeper. There are so many questions raised about religion, ecology, society and everything else. So many themes all sparking off deep thoughts.

I started to read the next one of the series but really couldn't get into it. I may try again now that I'm a good few years older.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:28 am UTC

Another one in the "love dune" camp. Incidentally, you didn't mention the Brian Herbert books. Are we pretending there was no such thing?

And lastly, the original Dune made me wonder why ecological engineering, that is the engineering of ecosystems, has not yet blossomed into a full and quantitative science. It seems stuck in a "conservation and preservation" stage that prevents large-scale research towards changing ecosystems to meet human needs, despite the fact that building greenhouses, draining swamps, and planting deserts are all primitive forms of ecological engineering that humanity has practiced for centuries.


There's some talking about using such techniques to fight global warming. But lots of people (including me) are a bit wary of messing with such complex systems on planetwide scales.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby poxic » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:40 am UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:But lots of people (including me) are a bit wary of messing with such complex systems on planetwide scales.

Bingo. We have no idea how to put together a whole ecosystem. Our one shot at it was Biosphere 2, and it failed. The complexity of interwoven life cycles is way beyond us.

I read the first book only. I was a huge fan of it at the time, though it's waned in my memory somewhat. I found that the story worked really well, though the author's writing skill was mediocre. There were many places in the book where I got impatient with how clever Hebert was trying to be (and at least partly failing). The extended, painstaking, practically millisecond-by-millisecond conversation between Lady Jessica and Dr. Yueh; some sort of dramatic realisation by Paul that "my mother is my worst enemy", which went absolutely nowhere; another painfully over-explained conversation, this one between Jessica and Chani... It got a bit much.

I did like the book, though. Its strengths outweighed its weaknesses. It was amusing, in retrospect, how I was so passionate about the book's "message" for a while after finishing it -- until I realised that I couldn't actually articulate what the "message" was. People raised in harsh deserts will take over the world? People who think really hard learn to out-think people who don't? I gave up trying. :)
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:13 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:Another one in the "love dune" camp. Incidentally, you didn't mention the Brian Herbert books. Are we pretending there was no such thing?

There is no such thing.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

Ohhhh right. That was a dream. I hate these situations. I'm so glad I woke up.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aion7 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:42 am UTC

I only read the first one also. I loved it, but, as poxic said, there are some problems with it. I liked how most of the characters and factions had realistic motivations.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby JayDee » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:33 am UTC

I loved them all. Dune was a book that made me think about things I hadn't thought about before - it certainly changed my definition of 'long term planning' - but Dune Messiah is probably my favourite. I understand I'm in the minority here, but I love the containedness of it. And the way it unfolds.

At the moment I'd rather like to re-read God Emperor. I read the Foundation trilogy recently, and couldn't help but compare.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Klapaucius » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:11 am UTC

I loved Dune and Dune Messiah (OP: the politics are the whole point, not the action; you're supposed to care about the scheming more than the plot's execution) but right at the end of Messiah things went completely off the rails, which is saying a lot. I mean, the first is pretty straightforward SF, the second just explores the themes of the first more deeply, but then (the details are fuzzy, it's been over a year since I read them):

Spoiler:
A crazed midget lures Paul into being blinded by an atomic blast, so he uses his infant children as proxy-eyes to kill assassins, then the psychic eye-twins (who are everyone ever) create a scheme involving amnesia and their ancestors of 10000 years ago to take out their aunt, who is crazy, and her semi-amnesiac clone boyfriend, at which point the male everyone-twin goes out into the desert, ODs on hallucinogenic spice, covers himself in worms, and becomes Superman, then meets his dad to let him know that he's God, and... yeah, I could barely make it through God Emperor of Dune, for the same reason there's never been a Star Wars novel about Jabba the Hutt.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:16 am UTC

Klapaucius wrote:I loved Dune and Dune Messiah (OP: the politics are the whole point, not the action; you're supposed to care about the scheming more than the plot's execution) but right at the end of Messiah things went completely off the rails, which is saying a lot. I mean, the first is pretty straightforward SF, the second just explores the themes of the first more deeply, but then (the details are fuzzy, it's been over a year since I read them):

Spoiler:
A crazed midget lures Paul into being blinded by an atomic blast, so he uses his infant children as proxy-eyes to kill assassins, then the psychic eye-twins (who are everyone ever) create a scheme involving amnesia and their ancestors of 10000 years ago to take out their aunt, who is crazy, and her semi-amnesiac clone boyfriend, at which point the male everyone-twin goes out into the desert, ODs on hallucinogenic spice, covers himself in worms, and becomes Superman, then meets his dad to let him know that he's God, and... yeah, I could barely make it through God Emperor of Dune, for the same reason there's never been a Star Wars novel about Jabba the Hutt.

That wasn't Dune Messiah. That was Dune Messiah + Children of Dune. Those were two separate books unless you watched the Sci-Fi miniseries first. Dune is one of those things that really requires you to read the books.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Klapaucius » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:38 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
Klapaucius wrote:I loved Dune and Dune Messiah (OP: the politics are the whole point, not the action; you're supposed to care about the scheming more than the plot's execution) but right at the end of Messiah things went completely off the rails, which is saying a lot. I mean, the first is pretty straightforward SF, the second just explores the themes of the first more deeply, but then (the details are fuzzy, it's been over a year since I read them):

Spoiler:
A crazed midget lures Paul into being blinded by an atomic blast, so he uses his infant children as proxy-eyes to kill assassins, then the psychic eye-twins (who are everyone ever) create a scheme involving amnesia and their ancestors of 10000 years ago to take out their aunt, who is crazy, and her semi-amnesiac clone boyfriend, at which point the male everyone-twin goes out into the desert, ODs on hallucinogenic spice, covers himself in worms, and becomes Superman, then meets his dad to let him know that he's God, and... yeah, I could barely make it through God Emperor of Dune, for the same reason there's never been a Star Wars novel about Jabba the Hutt.

That wasn't Dune Messiah. That was Dune Messiah + Children of Dune. Those were two separate books unless you watched the Sci-Fi miniseries first. Dune is one of those things that really requires you to read the books.


I meant that things went off the rails at the end of Messiah and stayed that way. And by "off the rails" I mean that the series stayed with its central themes (surprisingly well, actually) but spiraled into complete insanity. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course... but I was left with a bit of lucidity whiplash.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Quenouille » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:38 pm UTC

Going on a slight tangeant, have any of you picked up the sequel to Chapterhouse, Hunters of Dune, by Brian Herbert?

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Klapaucius » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:37 pm UTC

Quenouille wrote:Going on a slight tangeant, have any of you picked up the sequel to Chapterhouse, Hunters of Dune, by Brian Herbert?


Brian Herbert never wrote any books in the Dune series. It ended when Frank died.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:17 am UTC

Quenouille wrote:Going on a slight tangeant, have any of you picked up the sequel to Chapterhouse, Hunters of Dune, by Brian Herbert?

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby folkhero » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:55 am UTC

Klapaucius wrote:
Quenouille wrote:Going on a slight tangeant, have any of you picked up the sequel to Chapterhouse, Hunters of Dune, by Brian Herbert?


Brian Herbert never wrote any books in the Dune series. It ended when Frank died.


He did write some Dune fanfic, and I think some of it may have been published; this might be the source of a lot of the confusion people seem to have about the series.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Iori_Yagami » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:32 am UTC

While I liked science fiction a lot, Dune always was too perplexed and boring to me. Many times I couldn't understand what's going on... Those Bene Gesserit, lasguns, and odd freemen ritual descriptions left a sense of a dream where noone is real and magic happens. I liked many tech things, though - stillsuits, forcefields, controlling worms... And who's that Gom Jabber dude, anyway???
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Klapaucius » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:36 pm UTC

Iori_Yagami wrote:And who's that Gom Jabber dude, anyway???


*long, deep sigh*
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby LeopoldBloom » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:39 am UTC

Quenouille wrote:Going on a slight tangeant, have any of you picked up the sequel to Chapterhouse, Hunters of Dune, by Brian Herbert?

Iori_Yagami wrote:who's that Gom Jabber dude, anyway???
The RTS game was great! :mrgreen:


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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Shibboleth » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:39 am UTC

I'm a huge fan of all the Dune novels, though it took me about three reads-through before I really understood what Messiah was about. I would really have loved to have got a conclusion to the whole series, to see who the Honored Matres were running from, and who that old couple were.

And no, I don't buy Brian's speculation that everyone was running from the machines. To a pre-Butlerian Jihad civilisation, the machines might have been dangerous, but a post-Dune civilisation would have walked all over the machines. The combination of prescience and space-folding would be nigh-undefeatable by a logical and predictable enemy.

If you're a big fan of the Dune series, I highly recommend that you read Tim O'Reilly's (of the computing books fame) book on Frank Herbert. Lots of interesting analysis. It can be found on the O'Reilly website.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:45 am UTC

Well, very few people in Dune are truly prescient. And is it implied that the machines don't have FTL? It's been a while and I've been repressing. Either way, there were a shit ton of machine ships, and they haven't been stifling their tech. I can see that it might be a threat.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Aethernox » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:17 am UTC

Dune is quite certainly my favorite book; I've read the original sequels, and haven't given Brian Herbert and whoever his co-writer is a chance, actually. But the intrigue and political, religious, economic and ecological philosophies raised throughout the series make up some of the most enjoyable reading I've ever experienced.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Rysto » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:38 am UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:Another one in the "love dune" camp. Incidentally, you didn't mention the Brian Herbert books. Are we pretending there was no such thing?

Christ, I pretend that there were no sequels to Dune period.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Tidia » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:07 pm UTC

Rysto wrote:Christ, I pretend that there were no sequels to Dune period.


I've read alot of the other books and tend to agree with this statement. Dune by itself was a self contained novel, the other books should be treated as an alternative universe 'What If' scenario.

Having said that the books by Brian were pretty good, just hard to beat the cult status Dune has with many readers. Whats interesting is that personally I think Dune isn't that good a book, but lots of people rave on about it. Perhaps it is just that I read it later in my life and so don't feel nostalgic towards to it.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:11 pm UTC

These books changed my life, and after the rangers pulled me out of the desert, I was better for it.

I spent a lot of time wandering around J-tree, thinking like a Fremen would.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Luthen » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:10 am UTC

Have along read Dune so far, am waiting for the write state of mind to read the others. However, I was really great. Though I half knew the story before I read it because you kinda have to have read it to understand my parents, sometimes. I enjoyed more I guess cause I kinda went to Arrakis in my youth when Dad was an ex-pat to Yemen and now I live in Oz where we're proud of our big harsh deserts (not that we're trying to flood them, my Dad has plans on how to though).
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby folkhero » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:39 pm UTC

Rysto wrote:Christ, I pretend that there were no sequels to Dune period.

Hmm, I always thought the sequels, (at least Messiah) were essential to understanding the theme of the series. The first book, by itself is just a monomyth, a well written monomyth in an elaborately constructed universe, but thematically, it's just the hero's journey retold in a desert with big worms. As Herbert explained, "The bottom line of the Dune trilogy is: beware of heroes. Much better rely on your own judgment, and your own mistakes."

I don't think you can really get this message without seeing what Paul's rule was like in "Messiah." It's easy to root for the hero (the monomyth is constructed in a way to make you like the hero), it's harder to watch him become a tyrannical warlord and mass murderer. On the first read, I liked the happy ending of the first book more than dark thing that Muad'Dib becomes later in the series. On my second read, years later, I realized that the tendency for people to root for and put their faith in heroes is exactly what the author was trying to warn us against.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby mdyrud » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:49 am UTC

I loved Dune, but was rather confused by the next two. That was probably just because I was 10 at the time, so I should go back and reread them.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby musashi1600 » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:23 am UTC

I've read the original, but haven't bothered to read any of the sequels, partly on the advice of a friend (who never felt the need to read them) and partly because Frank Herbert's death forced the series to end on a cliffhanger.

I take it that's something I should reconsider, at least for the two books immediately following the original?
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby folkhero » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:31 pm UTC

musashi1600 wrote:I've read the original, but haven't bothered to read any of the sequels, partly on the advice of a friend (who never felt the need to read them) and partly because Frank Herbert's death forced the series to end on a cliffhanger.

I take it that's something I should reconsider, at least for the two books immediately following the original?


I think you should at least read the immediate sequel, Messiah. It's only about one third the length of the first and has a standalone ending which makes it a perfectly good place to stop. From there, you can decide if you want to keep reading the series.

It's a lost more philosophical than the first, and has almost none of the adventure elements, so if you're happy with Dune as a fun adventure hero story, and don't care for Herbert's philosophy, then you should probably stick with the original Dune. If you want to further explore the danger of heroes and fanatical religion, then by all means, read on.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Turambar » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:33 pm UTC

musashi1600 wrote:I've read the original, but haven't bothered to read any of the sequels, partly on the advice of a friend (who never felt the need to read them) and partly because Frank Herbert's death forced the series to end on a cliffhanger.

I take it that's something I should reconsider, at least for the two books immediately following the original?


Dude YES. Personally, I think that Messiah is necessary for an understanding of the first book. And Children of Dune is a damn good sequel, as far as I'm concerned. Definitely read those two. Being the Dune fanatic that I am, I also love the other three and only regret that Herbert never wrote the seventh. I would recommend reading the fourth, since I think it's fascinating and, as someone said, highly erudite rambling on matters philosophical and social.

Also, [everything that folkhero said].
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:58 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:These books changed my life, and after the rangers pulled me out of the desert, I was better for it.

I spent a lot of time wandering around J-tree, thinking like a Fremen would.

What is J-tree?

Hmm, I always thought the sequels, (at least Messiah) were essential to understanding the theme of the series. The first book, by itself is just a monomyth, a well written monomyth in an elaborately constructed universe, but thematically, it's just the hero's journey retold in a desert with big worms. As Herbert explained, "The bottom line of the Dune trilogy is: beware of heroes. Much better rely on your own judgment, and your own mistakes."

I don't think you can really get this message without seeing what Paul's rule was like in "Messiah." It's easy to root for the hero (the monomyth is constructed in a way to make you like the hero), it's harder to watch him become a tyrannical warlord and mass murderer. On the first read, I liked the happy ending of the first book more than dark thing that Muad'Dib becomes later in the series. On my second read, years later, I realized that the tendency for people to root for and put their faith in heroes is exactly what the author was trying to warn us against.

And here I always thought it was about the unlimited potential of human capability.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:12 pm UTC

Joshua Tree is a large national park in Southern California, about 3 hrs east of LA. It's populated by these scraggly, spikey, Dr. Seuss like trees called (Go ahead! Givaguess!) Joshua Trees (whoo), which makes it unlike Arrakis in that it is a rather green desert. It is however, also populated by huge boulders (one of the premier bouldering spots in the world), as it was a flood plain, and standing on a 200 ft outcropping, watching the sun play over the landscape and lizards scuttling about the baked surface made me feel small. The place makes me think of when Paul and Jessica first fled the downed thopter and camped the day away in a tent by a rocky outcropping... Sometimes I'd hike hours into the park and strip to my skivvies, running around and letting the desert take it's toll on my body.

Incidentally, I've almost died there a bunch of times, and have had showdowns with rattlesnakes on more then one occasion.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Snoof » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:16 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:And lastly, the original Dune made me wonder why ecological engineering, that is the engineering of ecosystems, has not yet blossomed into a full and quantitative science. It seems stuck in a "conservation and preservation" stage that prevents large-scale research towards changing ecosystems to meet human needs, despite the fact that building greenhouses, draining swamps, and planting deserts are all primitive forms of ecological engineering that humanity has practiced for centuries.

Too small a sample size. One life-bearing world isn't enough data for a full scale planetary eco-engineering science to be rigorous.

Plus there's the whole "what do you do when you mess up?" problem. It's not like we've got anywhere else to go when an experiment goes horribly wrong.

There's always working with smaller ecologies, but these appear to have the irritating habit of interacting with neighbouring ecologies (and indeed, ecologies on another continent), to the point where the smallest discrete ecosystem appears to be "a planet".
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:16 pm UTC

Just got my hands on a copy of "The Dune Encyclopedia". Anyone else think that the given history of the Bene Gesserit seems a little contrived?
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby GoodRudeFun » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:39 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Joshua Tree is a large national park in Southern California, about 3 hrs east of LA. It's populated by these scraggly, spikey, Dr. Seuss like trees called (Go ahead! Givaguess!) Joshua Trees (whoo), which makes it unlike Arrakis in that it is a rather green desert. It is however, also populated by huge boulders (one of the premier bouldering spots in the world), as it was a flood plain, and standing on a 200 ft outcropping, watching the sun play over the landscape and lizards scuttling about the baked surface made me feel small. The place makes me think of when Paul and Jessica first fled the downed thopter and camped the day away in a tent by a rocky outcropping... Sometimes I'd hike hours into the park and strip to my skivvies, running around and letting the desert take it's toll on my body.

Incidentally, I've almost died there a bunch of times, and have had showdowns with rattlesnakes on more then one occasion.
Its also roughly 40 miles to the west of where I live...

Heh, when I moved out here I had a hard time not being reminded of dune. If not for all the brush it'd be pretty similar.


I enjoyed dune, but it wasn't really my favorite book of all time...
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby Cynical Idealist » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:09 pm UTC

LeopoldBloom wrote:
Quenouille wrote:Going on a slight tangeant, have any of you picked up the sequel to Chapterhouse, Hunters of Dune, by Brian Herbert?

Iori_Yagami wrote:who's that Gom Jabber dude, anyway???
The RTS game was great! :mrgreen:


You two. Out. Now.

Hey, the RTS games were fun. Just forget that they're attached to Dune.

I'm not going to try to excuse the promotion of that fanfic or the "Gom Jabber dude", though.
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby amx126 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:10 pm UTC

hmm.. i loved dune. it took forever to get started, and im positive i missed some crucial themes in the book. i was 13(?) when i read it, so i think ill have to re-read it. as much as i HATE re-reading books. yay college reading level in 7th grade!
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby seladore » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:56 am UTC

OK, Dune.

I have tried to read it twice now, and both times literally couldn't get past the first maybe 20 pages. I just found it dreadful. I was expecting something great, but I just found it to be more like a parody of bad sci-fi than anything else. The constant introducing of obscure alien terms got on my nerves after about page three.

I can't find the copy, but there is a line, just after the whole 'hand in a hot box' bit that just makes me literally cringe from the overwritten melodrama. "It was a dark and stormy night" type writing. Ugh.

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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby aleflamedyud » Sat May 02, 2009 3:17 am UTC

seladore wrote:OK, Dune.

I have tried to read it twice now, and both times literally couldn't get past the first maybe 20 pages. I just found it dreadful. I was expecting something great, but I just found it to be more like a parody of bad sci-fi than anything else. The constant introducing of obscure alien terms got on my nerves after about page three.

I can't find the copy, but there is a line, just after the whole 'hand in a hot box' bit that just makes me literally cringe from the overwritten melodrama. "It was a dark and stormy night" type writing. Ugh.

What... is.... wrong... with... you? Obscure alien terms? You mean the Arabic?
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Re: The "Dune" Thread -- Remember to wear your crysknife!

Postby annals » Sat May 02, 2009 8:37 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:
seladore wrote:OK, Dune.

I have tried to read it twice now, and both times literally couldn't get past the first maybe 20 pages. I just found it dreadful. I was expecting something great, but I just found it to be more like a parody of bad sci-fi than anything else. The constant introducing of obscure alien terms got on my nerves after about page three.

I can't find the copy, but there is a line, just after the whole 'hand in a hot box' bit that just makes me literally cringe from the overwritten melodrama. "It was a dark and stormy night" type writing. Ugh.

What... is.... wrong... with... you? Obscure alien terms? You mean the Arabic?

I think it's a pretty fair complaint. While most of the terms used are derived from Arabic (and explained in the index at the back), they'll have no meaning to the average reader. When you hear phrases like "Bene Gesserit", "Padishah", "Muad'dib", "Kwisatz Haderach", "Gom Jabbar", and "CHOAM" for the first time ever within a period of 100 words or so, it can be a bit overwhelming. Now, whether this fascinates you and draws you in (as it did me) or leaves you cold depends on what kind of literature you like.


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