Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

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Zohar
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Zohar » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:49 pm UTC

I hear that all the time! One of the Brooklyn-raised managers at work basically says "idear" (as well as "datar", like Star Trek-data + r). It was so strange to me at first.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby chridd » Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:58 am UTC

/pi.ˈkɑn/
/aɪ.ˈdi.ə/ (three syllables)
~ chri d. d. /tʃɹɪ.di.di/ (Phonotactics? What phonotactics?) · ze or they · Forum game scores · avatar from flicky1991
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:09 am UTC

How do you pronounce "envelope"? I usually pronounce it /ɪnvəloʊp/, but occasionally will pronounce it /ɑnvəloʊp/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby measure » Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:44 am UTC

Mega85 wrote:How do you pronounce "envelope"? I usually pronounce it /ɪnvəloʊp/, but occasionally will pronounce it /ɑnvəloʊp/.

/'ɛn.vɛ.loʊp/

I think. I've never entirely understood the schwa /ə/. I see it used in places where I would use all of /ɛ/, /ʌ/, and /ʊ/, so it seems very muddled and/or redundant.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:13 am UTC

That's because (in most English varieties) when unstressed those vowels can reduce to a central vowel and the original vowel is no longer phonetically clear . Some varieties (such as RP) actually have a couple of other reduced vowels as well as the schwa.

It's possible your variety of English is like, for example, Spanish and doesn't reduce unstressed vowels anywhere near this drastically but I suspect it's more likely that you are having difficulty analysing your own speech (which is always hard) and your knowledge of the underlying phoneme is getting in the way.

I pronounce envelope as you do but with the second vowel reduced down to a schwa
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measure
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby measure » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:16 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:That's because (in most English varieties) when unstressed those vowels can reduce to a central vowel and the original vowel is no longer phonetically clear . Some varieties (such as RP) actually have a couple of other reduced vowels as well as the schwa.

It's possible your variety of English is like, for example, Spanish and doesn't reduce unstressed vowels anywhere near this drastically but I suspect it's more likely that you are having difficulty analysing your own speech (which is always hard) and your knowledge of the underlying phoneme is getting in the way.

I pronounce envelope as you do but with the second vowel reduced down to a schwa

Is it possible to have a stressed schwa? Do any English words have it?

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:19 pm UTC

The schwa for me is nearly identical phonetically to the STRUT vowel and I don't really perceive a difference between the two sounds. The schwa is an unstressed STRUT vowel to me.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:37 pm UTC

Some languages have stressed schwas but I don't think any native English words have it in any common variety (Pho is a loanword sometimes pronounced with a stressed schwa as in the original vietnamese).

Again, the lack of a perceived distinction there is almost certainly just perceived (unless you have either an unusual STRUT vowel or lack a true schwa). A true schwa is higher and/or more fronted than the common STRUT vowels.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:36 am UTC

The only time you can really have a stressed schwa in English is if you stress a monosyllabic word with a schwa (a normally unstressed word, like "the" or "a"). Most of these words have a non-schwa form that you can use when stressed, but you can stress them while using the schwa form as well.

Mega85 wrote:The schwa for me is nearly identical phonetically to the STRUT vowel and I don't really perceive a difference between the two sounds. The schwa is an unstressed STRUT vowel to me.

Same.

Mega85 wrote:How do you pronounce "envelope"? I usually pronounce it /ɪnvəloʊp/,

Same (pin-pen merger).

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:54 am UTC

Does anyone pronounce the word "dude" as /djuːd/? I've heard older Southerners pronounce a /j/ in words like "due" and "dune", however the ones I've heard who do such don't use a /j/ in the word "dude".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:56 pm UTC

I speak fairly conservative RP (without much yodh-dropping, so I have a /j/ in due and dune) and don't have a yodh in dude. I suspect it's because the word was borrowed from New York english (which has extensive yodh-dropping).
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Monika » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:44 pm UTC

I say [dju:d] but I'm not a native speaker.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:34 am UTC

I heard someone today talking about "wear and tear" and he kept saying it like /hwɛɚ n tɛɚ/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:55 am UTC

A hypercorrection derived from "where," I assume?


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