Language fleeting thoughts

For the discussion of language mechanics, grammar, vocabulary, trends, and other such linguistic topics, in english and other languages.

Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26356
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:35 pm UTC

Yeah I don't get the logic of the list, since it also leaves out combinations like "give up"
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

gd1
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 am UTC

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby gd1 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:38 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Yeah I don't get the logic of the list, since it also leaves out combinations like "give up"


Was just a fleeting thought for fun. One or more of them doesn't make sensu bean.

User avatar
PM 2Ring
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 pm UTC
Location: Mid north coast, NSW, Australia

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:57 am UTC

"pick down" is gibberish to me, but you could add "pick out" and "pick off".

IIRC, English picked up this verb + preposition construction from the Vikings.

Here's some support for that assertion
Old English generally did not possess phrasal verbs as they are found in Present-Day English. They did exist, although they were rare. Much more common in Old English was the inseparable-prefix verb, a form in which the particle was attached to the beginning of the verb. 
[...]
The formation of prefixed verbs in Old English was no longer productive in Middle English, and the loss of productivity was already evident in Old English, in which certain authors added a post-verbal particle to prefixed verbs, possibly because the prefix was losing meaning (Denison, “Origins’, 47). S
[...]
Middle English was also subject to the powerful forces of French and Anglo-Norman, as well to some influence from Old Norse. Several authors on the subject claim that Old Norse, which already had a fairly robust incidence of phrasal verbs, must have incited the production of English phrasal verbs with post-verbal particles, although the degree to which Old Norse is responsible for this is unclear (Smith 140, Fischer 386). The rapid borrowing of French verbs into Middle English likely slowed the development of phrasal verbs (Baugh and Cable 340, Fischer 386) because of competition in semantic fields, as French brought in Romance verbs that could fill the semantic fields of the Old English prefixed verbs. 
Last edited by PM 2Ring on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:30 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 2978
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:58 am UTC

How many can we make with the verb "run"? Let's shoot for 20. Here's 8 to start:
run up
run down
run in
run out
run on
run off
run around
runaway

They are all have meanings that are not immediately obvious from the definitions of the individual words. Some might need hyphens to get that particular sense, but I'm too lazy to check which.

User avatar
PM 2Ring
Posts: 3636
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 pm UTC
Location: Mid north coast, NSW, Australia

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby PM 2Ring » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:38 am UTC

"run through", as in "I'll run through the list", but also that thing with a sword.

Does "run by" fit the pattern?

User avatar
Angua
Don't call her Delphine.
Posts: 5750
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:42 pm UTC
Location: UK/[St. Kitts and] Nevis Occasionally, I migrate to the US for a bit

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby Angua » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:55 am UTC

run over
Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
GNU Terry Pratchett

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby Liri » Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:19 am UTC

Run past
Run along(side)
Run against
Run for
Run beside
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 2978
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:21 am UTC

Are those phrases that have meanings distinct from the individual words? Like, a runoff is definitely different from "run" + "off," but how does "run beside" mean anything different from "run" + "beside"?

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26356
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:49 am UTC

Yeah if we're going to count regular verb+preposition and verb+adverb pairs, then basically any verb can be used in a long list like this.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Sableagle
Ormurinn's Alt
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm UTC
Location: The wrong side of the mirror
Contact:

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby Sableagle » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:15 am UTC

Kehgrehdid wrote:
Felstaff wrote:I've mentioned elephant gun three times on this forum, but I've never--in text form--considered the many possibilities to what the noun 'elephant gun' could be.

Elephant gun (n.)
  1. A gun used specifically to fire ammunition at elephants
  2. A gun that is in the shape of an elephant
  3. A gun that is the size of an elephant
  4. A gun that sounds like an elephant
  5. A gun that is designed to be used by elephants
  6. A gun that uses elephants as ammunition
  7. A gun made out of elephant
  8. A gun made by an elephant
  9. A gun made by a person called Elephant
  10. A gun named after a person called Elephant
  11. A gun named after, or inspired by, elephants

I think six would look like a giant cannon. (is that a cannon used to shoot giants? Or a cannon that shoots giants as ammunition? Or a cannon that...)


I would like to add a few that occurred to me, for the sake of discussion:
[*]A gun made in a place called Elephant
[*]A gun named after a place called Elephant
[*]A gun used to attack a place called Elephant
[*]A gun used to defend a place called Elephant
[*]A method of increasing fuel flow to an engine (gun) similar to the way an elephant would be imagined to, or developed by a person named Elephant, or commonly used in a place called Elephant. (Jackrabbit start, Thach weave, Tokyo drift).
Yes, I know the last is three but they are related at the root and the variation in branches has been captured already


[*]A gun that turns the target into at elephant, related to the frog gun of XEvil
[*]A gun powered by an elephant, as in "air gun" being powered by compressed air.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

User avatar
Eebster the Great
Posts: 2978
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:58 am UTC

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:19 am UTC

  • A biceps of an elephant

gd1
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 am UTC

Re: Language fleeting thoughts

Postby gd1 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:41 am UTC

The waker has asleepened. - Luap, the movie Crevice.

Appropopriate = Appropriate and Apropos


Return to “Language/Linguistics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests