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IPA joke

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:33 pm UTC
by Monika
Image

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:45 pm UTC
by eSOANEM
On fb I, and a few others, were trying to work out where the bartender's from seeing as he apparently speaks a non-rhotic variety with canadian raising.

Wikipedia tells me that there are small isolated areas in southwestern New Brunswick, parts of Newfoundland, and the Lunenburg English variety spoken in Lunenburg and Shelburne Counties, Nova Scotia, with non-rhotic varieties in Canada. Apparently most North American varieties raise /ai/ though even those outside Canada and there are places in New-England which are both non-rhotic and have Canadian raising.

So I guess probably from New England?

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:06 pm UTC
by Monika
eSOANEM wrote:On fb I, and a few others, were trying to work out where the bartender's from seeing as he apparently speaks a non-rhotic variety with canadian raising.

Wikipedia tells me that there are small isolated areas in southwestern New Brunswick, parts of Newfoundland, and the Lunenburg English variety spoken in Lunenburg and Shelburne Counties, Nova Scotia, with non-rhotic varieties in Canada. Apparently most North American varieties raise /ai/ though even those outside Canada and there are places in New-England which are both non-rhotic and have Canadian raising.

So I guess probably from New England?

:lol:

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:32 pm UTC
by mathmannix
beer.png

ftfy.

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:15 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Who pronounces "beer" like that?

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:19 am UTC
by Eebster the Great
Yeah, "beer" is a diphthong for me for sure. Probably for everyone?

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:06 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
I was more commenting on the /ɪ/, which I don't think I've heard from anyone who pronounces the /ɹ/ (or other transcription of that rhotic sound).

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:50 pm UTC
by mathmannix
OK, I don't really understand IPA very well. I admit that.

I looked up "beer" on wiktionary and found this:
Pronunciation
• IPA(key): /bɪə(ɹ)/
• (UK) IPA(key): /bɪə/
• (US) IPA(key): /bɪɹ/
• (near–square merger) IPA(key): /bɛə/
• Rhymes: -ɪə(r)
• Homophone: bier

So that's where I got bɪɹ. It says on
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:English_pronunciation
that ɪɹ is like "mirror" and "Sirius", and that seems to me like how I pronounce beer. (I don't pronounce mirror as two syllables (I guess it could be pronounced with two syllables like dearer?); to me it is a homohone of mere, or Mir.)

However, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English
shows that the sound in "mirror" and "Sirius" is ɪr. So I don't know whether the r-like symbol should be upside-down or not...

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:31 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Strange.

The 'r' does have a big effect on preceding vowel sounds (even for those of us who still pronounce the 'r' itself), but I'd definitely say that if I stop before getting to the rhotic sound, it sounds like "bee" (with /i/), and if I tap or trill the 'r' as though I had a Spanish accent, it sounds a lot closer to "bead" than to "bid".

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:38 am UTC
by Pfhorrest
I agree that beer = bee + r, but also I use that same vowel in "Sirius" and the first syllable of "mirror".

I'm not sure I can even manage to articular that short i as in "bid" followed by an r sound, it just makes the i "ee" again. Or else it disappears and only the r sound is left, like in "sir" (which is not a homophone for "seer" / "sear"). If there were a Sir Ius of Dogstarshire, I would not pronounce that like Sirius the Dog Star.

Re: IPA joke

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:17 am UTC
by Eebster the Great
mathmannix wrote:OK, I don't really understand IPA very well. I admit that.

I looked up "beer" on wiktionary and found this:
Pronunciation
• IPA(key): /bɪə(ɹ)/
• (UK) IPA(key): /bɪə/
• (US) IPA(key): /bɪɹ/
• (near–square merger) IPA(key): /bɛə/
• Rhymes: -ɪə(r)
• Homophone: bier


That seems wrong to me. It even gives the rhyme as "-ɪə(r)", which looks right, but then leaves the schwa out of the US pronunciation guide.

However, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English
shows that the sound in "mirror" and "Sirius" is ɪr. So I don't know whether the r-like symbol should be upside-down or not...


Strictly speaking, it should be upside-down, because [r] represents a trill. Actually, in the American guide, it should probably be represented as r-coloration on the preceding vowel, so [biɚ] or [bɪɚ], rhyming with "mere" and "fear." I think the ɹ in the US pronunciation guide is representing something like ɚ. In practice, the letter "r" is commonly used in IPA for English pronunciations even though it is not strictly correct.

As for why it gives ɪ in "beer" and not i, I'm not sure. I have a hard time judging components of more complicated vowel sounds like the diphthong at the end of "beer." To me, it sounds like [biɚ], while "be-er" (one who is) would be [bi:.ɚ], but I'm pretty shaky in that whole thing. I would use the same vowel in "mirrior" or "Sirius" as I would in "beer," but I have also heard "mirror" pronounced distinctly differently, with a true ɪɹ sound. The difference in tensing is quite audible.