The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

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The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby keozen » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:13 pm UTC

Now, I've never been the best example of a user of the English language and it's grammar, to that I admit. It would seem that the language is however "evolving" quite a bit over the last few decades and to fussy people who like their language (like myself) it's cringe-worthy, if sometimes amusing, to hear.

I'll give you some examples of the phrases I have heard uttered from the mouths of babes:

"I readed that book too!." instead of read

"Yeah, I buyed that the other day" instead of bought

In fact a lot of things are corrupted in the same way nowadays "bringed" instead of brought "Catched" instead of caught. Gahhh!

Am I the only one who listens to things like this like someone is scraping their nails down a chalkboard?
Tell me it's a pet peeve for some of you guys too, or am I being anal retentive again?

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby BlochWave » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:19 pm UTC

I dunno where you live but that's weird.

Me and a friend of mine used to (jokingly) ask "Where you is?"

That would annoy people!
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby keozen » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:24 pm UTC

Ohh I love speaking out of order, asking people "how be you today?" is a regular thing for me.

And as for the examples above they are the most severe ones I've heard from the chavvy kids in West Yorkshire in the UK ("God's Own Country" [apparently I've got to say that]).
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Cosmologicon » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:40 pm UTC

Readed, bringed, and catched? Never heared of them. I've often thinked that English haved way, way too many irregular participles that gived nothing special to the language, and only maked things difficult for non-native speakers: by the time you've sayed two words, you've hitted one. I'm sure people always seed regularities as strange when they comed into the language, but I wouldn't have losed too much sleep over these ubiquitous irregular participles if they goed away. But you probably knowed that.



(I know, I know I'm like the millionth person to do this here, and it's not that clever. Maybe the linguistics forums could also be called the self-reference forum? )

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby keozen » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:54 pm UTC

Aaaaarghhhhhh!!

He he he, hit the nail on the head though :)
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby redwards » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:04 pm UTC

There's almost invariably one 5 second period of my day where I feel homicidal due to utter language butchering.

If I could get my girlfriend to stop pronouncing 'across' with a 't' on the end, that would be nice.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby kbltd » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:11 pm UTC

It's common for young children erroneously to form a regular past participle of an irregular verb, but they usually grow out of it. However, when the verb is a bit uncommon, they may never grow out of it; as a result it's now common to hear broadcasters say that something has "wreaked havoc" or that a object whch is split has been "cleaved". I don't mind those usages much, I think the regularisation of verbs is a natural process in languages (as is regularisation of plurals - chicken is no longer the plural of chick.) Jean Aitchison's book "Language Change: Progress or Decay?" is a very entertaining book on the subject and I recommend it.

Some things do irritate me, though, such as hearing someone using the plural form of a verb with a singular subject, to make it agree with a plural object. It's just asinine. Gordon Brown does it - I think the UK is doomed.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:14 pm UTC

Student: "We just had lightning, I seen it!"
Teacher: "You didn't 'seen' it..."
Student: *defensively* "But I did seen it!"

The punchline? This was my first year of EDDT, University.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby wannabe » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:17 pm UTC

Personal pet peeves:

Roof pronounced Ruf
Creek pronounced Crik
Wolf pronounced Woof

My 4 year old still does the bringed, seed, buyed thing, but my 6 year old is almost over it.

The other thing that dives me nuts the the substitution of "like" for "said."
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby evilbeanfiend » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:48 pm UTC

sheeps
in ur beanz makin u eveel

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby TomBot » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:53 pm UTC

Webster.com lists "wrought" as a past tense of "work". It also doesn't show any special past tenses for "wreak", and gives "wreak havoc"* as an example. So why should it be "wrought havoc"?

In fact, Websters also gives "cleaved" before "cleft" or "cloven". It seems there are a lot of archaic irregular verbs, and I really see nothing wrong with phasing them out. Granted they sound a little cooler to say, but the regular forms are just as understandable. Plus, if most people stop using the irregulars, you get to sound better when you do. But you have to be very careful when you criticize language mistakes, because outside of the most basic syntax, there are lots of gray areas.

Edit: There's nothing wrong with "was like" either. It doesn't quite mean "said", because it often specifies thoughts or expressions that were felt but could not have been said. Granted it's imprecise, but I'm not arguing it should be used in formal writing, just defending its use in speech. It's also a verbal pause, and in that capacity, as abhorrent as all verbal pauses.

* Work in the game industry has caused me to consistently misspell "havoc" as "havok".

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Alpha Omicron » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:06 pm UTC

Messing up irregular verbs isn't nearly as bad as the sudden, widespread, total anihilation of people's abilities to handle the word "seen".
I hear "I just seen ... " from everyone these days, regardless of age, intelligence, etc.

Is this happening everywhere?
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby cuchlann » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:25 pm UTC

Yeah, the regularization of irregular verbs is common -- not just in children, but in common usage and, over time, the language itself. All languages once had more irregulars than they do now.

However, sometimes weird things happen -- "dived" is the older past ppl of "dive," but a lot of people now use "dove," which is some sort of irregular-addition or something.

I am almost certain that's the right example. I left my history of the English language text at home, as there was just so much room in my car.

Oh, also -- have you ever seen someone use "novel" to mean any book-length work? I had read about it before, but now several of my students have done it. It leads to the terrible phrase "fiction novel," which makes me crazy.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:33 pm UTC

Alpha Omicron wrote:Messing up irregular verbs isn't nearly as bad as the sudden, widespread, total anihilation of people's abilities to handle the word "seen".
I hear "I just seen ... " from everyone these days, regardless of age, intelligence, etc.

Is this happening everywhere?

If you read my post, you'd know the answer is "yes". I seen it everywhere.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Citizen K » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:14 pm UTC

keozen wrote:...I've never been the best example of a user of the English language and it's grammar...

Ah, sweet, delicious irony. :mrgreen:
(I do try not to be annoying-grammar-police-guy, but I just couldn't let that pass for the humor value. Really, it's all in good fun.)
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Dingbats » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:25 pm UTC

One thing that annoys the hell out of me is when people use "you" for the second person singular. It's "thou" for Christ's sake! Oh, and another thing, and I hear this all the time, there's lots of ignorant idiots who mess up the perfect participles. Like "I've said that already". Sorry, come again? Oh, "I've gesægd that already", you mean, right.

Not to mention those who pronounce "scip" as "ship". Crazy!

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Randvek » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:55 pm UTC

Yeah, wreaked havoc is right... no idea where wrought came from in relation to wreak.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:06 pm UTC

If something wroughts, it wreaks. (Phonics are phun!)

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby miles01110 » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:23 pm UTC

Not to thread hijack or anything, but in my opinion the destruction of the English spoken language pales in comparison to what the internet, Instant Messengers, and SMS are doing to the written language. I guess that would be like.... nuclear holocaust?

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby bcdm » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:23 am UTC

keozen wrote:Am I the only one who listens to things like this like someone is scraping their nails down a chalkboard?
Tell me it's a pet peeve for some of you guys too, or am I being anal retentive again?


In a way, it's being anal-retentive, because the language will change, and there's nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, I want to know when the phrase, "And I said..." was replaced with, "And I'm like..."

It's a rare day when I hear someone under 30 (talking to someone else under 30) actually say the words, "I said". "I'm like" has almost completely replaced it.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby bonder » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:40 am UTC

Here's one that gets me: when someone says "a whole nother" instead of "another whole". I mean seriously, what the hell is a "nother"?
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:56 am UTC

bonder wrote:Here's one that gets me: when someone says "a whole nother" instead of "another whole". I mean seriously, what the hell is a "nother"?

It would also be correct to say "a whole other".

False splitting/combining of things with a or an is a fairly common pattern in the history of English, though. So I wouldn't be especially surprised to see something like "nother" become more common in the future, at least in that context.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Cosmologicon » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:05 am UTC

bonder wrote:Here's one that gets me: when someone says "a whole nother" instead of "another whole". I mean seriously, what the hell is a "nother"?

That was a favorite of mine some years ago. I saw it in a pretty prominent movie, Empire Strikes Back, I think. The high point of my investigation was when I heard someone say "an entire nother".

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Geekthras » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:13 am UTC

Minus, Plus, and Times are not VERBS!

And neither is "verse" as in "I versed him" meaning "I opposed him"
How are you supposed to spell it anyway? (In boston, where I'm from, anyway=anyways)
Versus is where the 'verb' came from, so the past tense is versud? I'm versung him?
Stop verbing words, dammit! Verbing weirds language!
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:10 am UTC

Geekthras wrote:Minus, Plus, and Times are not VERBS!

And neither is "verse" as in "I versed him" meaning "I opposed him"
How are you supposed to spell it anyway? (In boston, where I'm from, anyway=anyways)
Versus is where the 'verb' came from, so the past tense is versud? I'm versung him?
Stop verbing words, dammit! Verbing weirds language!

Haha, in the "asshole" thread, someone mentioned "adjectivization", which is the nouning of a verbed noun.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby cuchlann » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:27 am UTC

Dingbats: fun, good examples -- except, "scip" in the Old English is pronounced the say way as "ship" in modern English. "sc" is always an "sh" sound in Old English. The Old Norse pronunciation of the same word is where we get "skip," a small boat.

Personally, I hate how people keep ignoring the important gutturals in the middle of words like "knight" and "right." Madness.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Dingbats » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:10 am UTC

cuchlann wrote:Dingbats: fun, good examples -- except, "scip" in the Old English is pronounced the say way as "ship" in modern English. "sc" is always an "sh" sound in Old English. The Old Norse pronunciation of the same word is where we get "skip," a small boat.

Ok, thanks, it was a bad example.

Personally, I hate how people keep ignoring the important gutturals in the middle of words like "knight" and "right." Madness.

Yeah, isn't it! :x

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby kbltd » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:07 am UTC

Regarding [b]wrought[/b], I stand corrected, good people.

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/wreak?view=uk
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Number3Pencils » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:12 pm UTC

Yeah, I've sometimes wanted to say wrought instead of wreaked, but I know that wrought is the past of wright, as in make.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby bavardage » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:12 pm UTC

Gah. Do it quick! Do it quick!
Man, I did good in that test.
That went real bad. If I was to do it again I would to better.

No.

Do it quickly.
You did well in that test.
It went really badly. And if you were to do it again, you would do better.

Last year, my business studies teacher frequently wrote the possesive of it as it's.

The thing I hate most of all, people saying "Should of" instead of should have. It's not as if I am mishearing. They place emphasis upon the of. So irritating. I have to stop myself from correcting them (I also mentally add -ly to most inncorect adverbs).
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby 4=5 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:24 pm UTC

it is not not do it "quickly" it is do it quick LIKE, I do not know know were you get your infernal changes from

and of is just a shorten did form of have, it is ave which since "uh" is the default sound in my english quickly changes to "of"

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby zomgmouse » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:34 am UTC

I found a good poem concerning irregular verb past participles:

A boy who swims may say he swum,
But milk is skimmed and seldom skum,
And nails you trim, they are not trum.
When words you speak, those words are spoken,
But a nose is twerked and can't be twoken,
And what you seek is seldom soken.
If we forget then we've forgotten,
But things we wet are never wotten,
And houses let cannot be lotten.
The goods one sells are always sold,
But fears dispelled are not dispold.
And what you smell is never smold.
When young, a top you oft saw spun,
But did you see a grin e'er grun,
Or a potato nearly skun?

A similar one regarding irregular plurals:

We'll begin with box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox should be oxen, not oxes.
The one fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
You may find a lone mouse, or a whole nest of mice,
But the plural of house is houses, not hice.
If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
The cow in the plural may be cows or kine,
But a bow, if repeated, is never called bine;
And the plural of vow is vows, not vine.
If I speak of a foot, and you show me your feet,
And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?
If the singular is this and the plural is these,
Should the plural of kiss ever be nicknamed keese?
The one may be that and three would be those,
Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.
We speak of a brother and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his, him,
But imagine the feminine she, shis and shim!
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Angelene » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:37 am UTC

The should of/should have confusion irks me, and I far too often witness this in the written form. Not to mention the obvious their/they're/there, you're/your, and all misdemeanours involving apostrophe placement. Also, as much of an ignorant madame as it may make me, I tend to correct those who use 'I seen' and 'I done'...at least those with whom I'm in any way familiar.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Eschatokyrios » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:53 am UTC

I wish I wrote Anglo-Saxon, so I could post a sarcastic message of complete agreement with the way the youth are completely mangling Ænglisc, dropping morphological case, saying "king" instead of "cyniga" and so forth.

In any case, educated people complaining about language change is as old as language change and the existence of educated people themselves, so whatev. Language change is going to happen regardless (unless we all become immortal cyborgs or something), and maybe some future linguist will find this thread and use it as a primary resource in tracking the changes from Archaic Old American to 30th century contemporary 'nglish, like how scholars of Spanish use the Appendix Probi for tracing the changes from Latin to Spanish.

If that does in fact happen, hi future linguist! I hope you are well, by the standards of your time period and culture, and finding useful information on our language! Have a smile: :D
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby TradaPIB » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:50 am UTC

My mate and I use 'brang' to irritate our other friend. I feel so dirty when I say it. but it's just so damn fun.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby __Kit » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:54 am UTC

"Uhm, miss could I aksks you for a spencil!"
I said that and got a few laughs.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby Master Gunner » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:54 pm UTC

"I seen a deer yesterday."
I hate that.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby GentlemanLoser » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:11 am UTC

Too often, I hear people talking about how they conversated with their friend earlier.

I'm from Long Island, New York where the vast majority of people believe "aks" means to inquire or request of. I like to inform them that it is actualy a device made for cutting wood. They usually don't get it.

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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:45 am UTC

GentlemanLoser wrote:I'm from Long Island, New York where the vast majority of people believe "aks" means to inquire or request of. I like to inform them that it is actualy a device made for cutting wood. They usually don't get it.

As well they shouldn't. The fact that you're using a newfangled pronunciation of an old word doesn't mean they're doing it wrong. (Note that I'm being a bit sarcastic here.)

Apparently, this etymology has to be brought up in every thread of this forum...

gmalivuk, here, wrote:Chaucer, in the Wife's Prologue, wrote "I axe, why the fyfte man Was nought housbond to the Samaritan?" And, in keeping with the former -n ending for plural, Robert Manning of Brunne's translation, Meditations on the supper of our Lord, includes the passage, "Some axen questyons to do hym wrong." (l. 430).

So I for one am not going to get my panties boxers in a bundle if common usage causes a switch back the other way.
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Re: The English Spoken Language: RIP (Examples)

Postby genewitch » Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:52 am UTC

CaraInFrames wrote:The should of/should have confusion irks me, and I far too often witness this in the written form. Not to mention the obvious their/they're/there, you're/your, and all misdemeanours involving apostrophe placement. Also, as much of an ignorant madame as it may make me, I tend to correct those who use 'I seen' and 'I done'...at least those with whom I'm in any way familiar.



i'd imagine "should of" comes from phonetically spelling out "should've" which is fairly common in spoken language but rare (because it looks silly having l, d and v right next to one another like that) in written text.

edit: completed the thought.

bcdm wrote:
keozen wrote:Am I the only one who listens to things like this like someone is scraping their nails down a chalkboard?
Tell me it's a pet peeve for some of you guys too, or am I being anal retentive again?


In a way, it's being anal-retentive, because the language will change, and there's nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, I want to know when the phrase, "And I said..." was replaced with, "And I'm like..."

It's a rare day when I hear someone under 30 (talking to someone else under 30) actually say the words, "I said". "I'm like" has almost completely replaced it.


If you really must know (and i'm surprised that this is so easily forgotten):
Valley girl. San Fernando Valley, California. Rich girls, mostly. "and i'm like Omigawd!" People started out making fun of the 'accent' or 'dialect' which was obnoxious. I dated someone from nearby (Simi Valley to be exact) and i'm proud to say that i almost completely removed 'like' as a pause from her vernacular.

But in all seriousness... that's where it came from, and people making fun of it suddenly started subconsciously using it to fill in more appropriate words. I blame the general decline of book reading, personally. It's there you will find all sorts of nifty words for "said" which most people don't use in everyday conversation.

Valley Girl dialect was putting "like" more times per sentence than the word "the" or "a".

Silly?

Edit: removed bigot-like comment.
...C is for people who would rather sit at home and match up pairs of socks by the count of their elastic bands, than to just get dressed with mismatched shoes and take the lady out to dinner and nail her in the car on the way home -xkcd_n00bz
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