日本語 (Japanese Practice)

[Benfrenchman]

Stuff like that is always tricky to translate. Maybe I just wouldn't put anything in the subs. I definitely wouldn't write 'itadakimasu' in the subs, but I'd be loathe to put something like 'let's eat!' or something equally hacky.

[Gelsamel]

Stuff like that is always tricky to translate. Maybe I just wouldn't put anything in the subs. I definitely wouldn't write 'itadakimasu' in the subs, but I'd be loathe to put something like 'let's eat!' or something equally hacky.

I think putting "itadakimasu" in the subs is fine, maybe with a note up top the first time it appears in the series/movie/whatever noting why it isn't translated.

Edit: Similarly like in SZS how they don't translated "zashiki-warashi" and "Hikkikomori". I don't agree that they should purposely translate late even normal lines to sound like they were written in English, at least not in anime. I don't mind that in games like Phoenix Wright.

[Benfrenchman]

How is anime different to Phoenix Wright?

Basically it comes down to whether you want a translation or a localisation. A localisation will sound and read better but be fairly loose, a translation will be tighter but look awkward.

Example: The photocopier in the university library in Kanazawa, where I spent my year abroad. It had a sign next to it saying コイン式 (koinshiki).
Translation: Coin System, Coin Style, Coin Type
Localisation: Coin Operated

[Gelsamel]

How is anime different to Phoenix Wright?

Basically it comes down to whether you want a translation or a localisation. A localisation will sound and read better but be fairly loose, a translation will be tighter but look awkward.

Example: The photocopier in the university library in Kanazawa, where I spent my year abroad. It had a sign next to it saying コイン式 (koinshiki).
Translation: Coin System, Coin Style, Coin Type
Localisation: Coin Operated

Maybe it's because most of the anime I watch often has a lot of comedic pop culture references in it and a lot of those references are of other anime or observational stuff.

Also, I don't think these translations that do "Don't say things which cause misunderstandings"-type stuff would say "Coin System" or "Coin style" rather than "Coin Operated". At least I haven't seen that problem, but then I don't know Japanese... so...


Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jtfDP8CdqI How would you translate the line at 4:15/4:16

[Benfrenchman]

Hmm. Well I don't really know the context so it's difficult to say, but he's pretty forceful in the Japanese. He sounds a bit irritated. Maybe something like "Come off it." That's my UK localisation for now

This show is pretty cute. I ended up watching this whole clip.

[Interactive Civilian]

Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jtfDP8CdqI How would you translate the line at 4:15/4:16

「誤解を招くような事を言うな」
The subtitle is a correct translation of the meaning, but obviously very unnatural phrasing, although I'd prefer it to say "invite misunderstanding" rather than "cause misunderstanding" (subtle difference in nuance from "cause", but it must have been intended or he'd have just said させる). Anyway, I'd say it as something like...

"Don't give people the wrong idea."

Sure, it's a completely different phrase, but it gets the intent across well enough in a single line and maintains the feeling of the scene. YMMV.

[edit]
Wow... Watching that makes me realize (again) how much I dislike subtitles. I mean they are not bad, and they convey the basic meaning across well enough, but it feels wrong, like something is being lost in the translation; some bits of nuance and feeling. Oh well, I guess it's better than dubbing (in most cases) if you don't understand Japanese.

[edit#2]Heh... That was a cute clip. Reminds me of some of my students when I taught High School in Japan. *sigh* I hope I can get back there soon.

[Gelsamel]

Anyway, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jtfDP8CdqI How would you translate the line at 4:15/4:16

「誤解を招くような事を言うな」
The subtitle is a correct translation of the meaning, but obviously very unnatural phrasing, although I'd prefer it to say "invite misunderstanding" rather than "cause misunderstanding" (subtle difference in nuance from "cause", but it must have been intended or he'd have just said させる). Anyway, I'd say it as something like...

"Don't give people the wrong idea."

Sure, it's a completely different phrase, but it gets the intent across well enough in a single line and maintains the feeling of the scene. YMMV.

I guess that is a much more natural way to say it... but for some reason I like it better the other way...

Do they use polite modifiers "too much" in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NelE6Q_xc4Q ? (Might possibly be NSFW)(My favourite comedy anime, 2nd part of the first episode so it's a bit out of context...)
Or is that typical phrasing in Japan/Japanese?

[Kizyr]

IC totally beat me on a good translation for the "misunderstandings" line. But yeah, I'm in agreement with IC and Ben on their descriptions of localizations vs straight translations. I greatly prefer localizations, since they get across the meaning in the most efficient way possible without sounding like things have been passed through a filter.

So if you guys were subbing anime you'd translate "itadakimasu"? (If I spelled that right).

Because that's actually a pet peeve of mine...

It depends on the context, but things like "Bon appetit", "thanks!", or just a blank could all be appropriate. KF

[Benfrenchman]

What do you do, Kizyr? Are you in translation?

[Kizyr]

No, at least not professionally. I've translated a few things (nearly all related to the Lunar series), including two graphic novels and a short 10-minute anime. KF

[Benfrenchman]

That's cool. If you're interested in pursuing it, you should apply to Nintendo of America. They're up in Washington State. They're always looking for good translators.

[Kizyr]

That's cool. If you're interested in pursuing it, you should apply to Nintendo of America. They're up in Washington State. They're always looking for good translators.

Eh, I'll pass... Truth be told, I actually hate translation. I can only bring myself to do it when I have a great incentive to pass on the translated information--which is why thus far, all the significant translation work I've done has been regarding the Lunar series. That and I really like my current line of work as it is.

Maybe I should clarify, though... I don't like having to do the work involved in translation, since I prefer just understanding things within their original context without having to reinterpret it. But, I'll bring myself to do so if it's a subject I really enjoy. KF

[ascIIaster]

Sorry for interrupting you, but does anyone know what one should pay attention to when buying a futon? Or does maybe someone know a good online futon shop (preferably German or European, I don't wanna know what shipping from Japan to Germany costs...). I already searched the interweb but almost all of the sites I found where about those combined bed-couches and the other ones' prices seem to be a little exaggerated to me...
Would be really nice if somebody could help me

Regards,
Andreas

[kaitou]

Using the Mangajin-style 4 line mode (original, rōmaji, literal word-by-word translation, standard translation). Unfortunately, spacing gets killed by the browser. I've added spaces in the native lines to help corresponding the original to the rōmaji and literal translation.

はじめまして。カイトウ と 申します。よろしく お願い します。
hajimemashite. KAITOU to mōshimasu. yoroshiku o-negai shimasu.
pleased-to-meet-you. (name) (quote) is-said. well/favorably request do.
Please to meet you. I am called "kaitou." I ask that you think well of me.

私 の 働いた 所 で 日本 の 客さん が いっぱい いました ので 日本語 を 勉強 しました。
watashi no hataraita tokoro de nihon no kyakusan ga ippai imashita node nihongo o benkyou shimashita.
I 's worked place at Japan 's customer (subj) many were since Japanese (subj) study did.
Because the place where I worked had many Japanese customers, I studied Japanese.

Corrections welcome. First rule of translation: it's easier to translate into your native language than away from it.

[Benfrenchman]

はじめまして。カイトウ と 申します。よろしく お願い します。
hajimemashite. KAITOU to mōshimasu. yoroshiku o-negai shimasu.
pleased-to-meet-you. (name) (quote) is-said. well/favorably request do.
Please to meet you. I am called "kaitou." I ask that you think well of me.

私 の 働いた 所 で 日本 の 客さん が いっぱい いました ので 日本語 を 勉強 しました。
watashi no hataraita tokoro de nihon no kyakusan ga ippai imashita node nihongo o benkyou shimashita.
I 's worked place at Japan 's customer (subj) many were since Japanese (subj) study did.
Because the place where I worked had many Japanese customers, I studied Japanese.

Corrections welcome. First rule of translation: it's easier to translate into your native language than away from it.

I've not heard of Mangajin (until I Wikipedia'd it just now) but I think the literal translation is fairly worthless. I like the Jim Breen method, where every word in the sentence is glossed individually. Example:

はじめまして。カイトウ と 申します。よろしく お願い します。

はじめまして。

* まして (adv,exp) (1) still more; to say nothing of; not to mention; (2) still less (with neg. verb); KD

カイトウと申します。

* カイト (n) kite; (P); EP
* Possible inflected verb or adjective: (polite, non-past)
申す 【もうす】 (v5s,vt) (hum) to be called; to say; (P); EP

よろしくお願いします。

* よろしく (adv,exp) (1) well; properly; suitably; (2) best regards; please remember me; please treat me favorably (favourably); KD
* お願いします 【おねがいします】 (exp) (hum) please; (P); EP

Secondly, I think that 働いた所 is a bit clunky. I'd go with 職場 (しょくば) I think.

I don't think you need to say 客さん. 客 should be fine!

いる never takes で！ It should be 所に～います.

I would use something like 勉強し始めた, started studying.

[mochafairy]

今日は、みなさん！モーカと名付ける事もいいです。
私のかぞくや彼氏についてはなします。
父は電子工学者としてつとめています。コンピューターをおもしろはんぶんでするのが好きで、五十さいです。
母はしゅふです。読書というしゅみでじかんをすごして、四八さいです。
おとうとは九さいです。小学にかよっています。テレビゲームやコンピューターやたべものが好きです。数学が上手です。
兄は二十二さいです。兄かおにかわからないときにあるので、かれをいじわることが好きです。でも、NYUの大学院で核物理学を学んでいます。かれは優しくて、あたまがいいです。契っています。 ：）
私はうたうことやバイオリンをひくことやコンピューターやおんがくが好きです。ほこしてすがくが上手です！二年生で、電気工学を学んでいます。
私の彼氏は二十二さいで、四年生の宇宙飛行士の工学です。愛しています。ちょうあたまがよくて、セクシーで、かれが私の隣にある時に私は喜ばしいで、笑います。
読んでくれて、ありがとうございました！

Spoiler:

Hello, everyone! It would be good if you called me Mocha.
I'm going to talk about my family and boyfriend.
My dad works as an electrical engineer. He enjoys dabbling in computers and he's 50.
My mom is a housewife. She spends her time, her hobby, reading, and she's 48.
My little brother is 9. He goes to elementary school. He enjoys video games, computers, and food. He's also good at math.
My older brother is 22. I'm not sure if he's my older brother or a monster because he enjoys being mean and icky. However, he is studying nuclear physics at NYU's grad school. He's gentle and smart. I promise! : )
I enjoy singing and playing the violin and computers and music. I'm also proud of being good at math! I'm in my second year studying electrical engineering.
My boyfriend is 22 and a senior in astronautical engineering. I love him. He's really smart, and he's sexy, and when I'm with him, he makes me laugh and smile.
Thank you for reading!

On a side note, make any corrections you see fit.

[kaitou]

I've not heard of Mangajin (until I Wikipedia'd it just now) but I think the literal translation is fairly worthless. I like the Jim Breen method, where every word in the sentence is glossed individually. Example:

はじめまして。カイトウ と 申します。よろしく お願い します。

はじめまして。

* まして (adv,exp) (1) still more; to say nothing of; not to mention; (2) still less (with neg. verb); KD

カイトウと申します。

* カイト (n) kite; (P); EP
* Possible inflected verb or adjective: (polite, non-past)
申す 【もうす】 (v5s,vt) (hum) to be called; to say; (P); EP

よろしくお願いします。

* よろしく (adv,exp) (1) well; properly; suitably; (2) best regards; please remember me; please treat me favorably (favourably); KD
* お願いします 【おねがいします】 (exp) (hum) please; (P); EP

The only problem with the Breen method is that it takes a lot more space, but, otherwise, I agree. Mangajin also provided notes on verb inflections which I omitted. Something like: moushimasu from mousu a humble form of iu (to say).

Secondly, I think that 働いた所 is a bit clunky. I'd go with 職場 (しょくば) I think.

Always hard to think of the right word when it's not your native tongue.

I don't think you need to say 客さん. 客 should be fine!

いる never takes で！ It should be 所に～います.

I would use something like 勉強し始めた, started studying.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Benfrenchman]

Thanks for the suggestions.

No problem... sorry if I came across as condescending or lecturing. I'm not all that great at Japanese actually, and I'm sure Kizyr or Interactive Civilian could help you more than I can

[kaitou]

分りました。^_^

I figure I should expound on my choice of clunky vocabulary/grammar (yea, I wasn't thrilled with it, either).

Secondly, I think that 働いた所 is a bit clunky. I'd go with 職場 (しょくば) I think.

Trying to indicate that it was the place I worked and not the current one (of course, I can't find a reference at this time).

I don't think you need to say 客さん. 客 should be fine!

I think it should have been possibly even お客さん. One usually tacks on the さん for out-of-group references.

いる never takes で！ It should be 所に～います.

Hadn't heard (or forgotten) that rule; will check it out.

I would use something like 勉強し始めた, started studying.

I think this would be 勉強を始めました. Other than changing to masu form, I don't believe suru takes the ~hajimeru ending; you just use hajimeru directly. But, I could be wrong.

[Benfrenchman]

Secondly, I think that 働いた所 is a bit clunky. I'd go with 職場 (しょくば) I think.

Trying to indicate that it was the place I worked and not the current one (of course, I can't find a reference at this time).

You could well be right- I would personally express the time with adverbials and suchlike.

I don't think you need to say 客さん. 客 should be fine!

I think it should have been possibly even お客さん. One usually tacks on the さん for out-of-group references.

I feel like it's the other way around- お客, since you're just talking about general customers.

いる never takes で！ It should be 所に～います.

Hadn't heard (or forgotten) that rule; will check it out.

Yeah, ある and いる always take に without exception.

I would use something like 勉強し始めた, started studying.

I think this would be 勉強を始めました. Other than changing to masu form, I don't believe suru takes the ~hajimeru ending; you just use hajimeru directly. But, I could be wrong.

This is probably a brainfart from me. Pretty sure you're right.

God, you wouldn't know I was a translator would you?

[naglly]

Nice to meet you.
はじめまして。

My name is "naglly（なぐりー）".
I am a Japanese studying English.

I knew XKCD this time and felt that I was very splendid.
And I wanted to translate it into Japanese and stood and have begun to write Japanese of XKCD in one's blog.
I think that there is much wrong translation, but please visit it if interested.
"This sentence is wrong.", I am glad if I can have such an indication.

I serve as own study and carry it from now on. And this thing hopes that it is studied all.

Because I am studying English, I may not return the answer immediately.

My blog:naglly.com
XKCD category:XKCD category
This blog is written only in Japanese. sorry.

[Noa]

Good luck with your studying nagally! It must be difficult studying on your own.

Can anyone here recommend a good book for studying Kansai dialect? We're learning standard Japanese at my university but our sister school is near Osaka! I'm applying to study abroad there next year so I would like to start reading up on the differences. Thanks in advance for the help!

[gibberishtwist]

I don't know if this has been asked already (I searched but couldn't find it, so I think I'm safe), but what's the difference between watashi and watashi-wa? The only difference I've been able to see (In movies and anime) is that watashi seems to be used for internal dialogue, while watashi-wa seems to be used around other people...Or something. Is one more formal than the other or what?

[Supergrunch]

I don't know if this has been asked already (I searched but couldn't find it, so I think I'm safe), but what's the difference between watashi and watashi-wa? The only difference I've been able to see (In movies and anime) is that watashi seems to be used for internal dialogue, while watashi-wa seems to be used around other people...Or something. Is one more formal than the other or what?

You can omit various particles, including wa, in informal speech.

[gibberishtwist]

So...does wa make it formal and that's it?

[Supergrunch]

So...does wa make it formal and that's it?

No, wa marks the topic, and should usually be there, but you can drop it and other particles in informal situations. Note that if the topic is obvious, then you don't need the wa-marked phrase at all, and including it makes the sentence more emphatic.

[Osha]

Gosh, I haven't practiced Japanese for around a year and it's definitely showing. I need to start practicing again.

Here's my Japanese introduction paragraph (go easy on me, I didn't look anything up ):
こんにちは！オシャと申します。私の日本語はとても下手です。練習しなかっただから。でも、日本語の本を読んで大好き、そして練習するつもりです。
よろしくお願いします。

What I meant to say:
Hello! I'm called Osha. My Japanese is quite poor because I haven't been practicing. But I really like Japanese books so I Intend to practice. It's a pleasure to meet you.

I have a story I'm translating (オシャベリ姫) and I should really devote more time to it because it has done wonders for my reading ability and it's a very interesting story.
I've got this neat little dictionary on my DS that can tell me any kanji I don't know (which is most of them ) (provided I can figure out the stroke order well enough to enter it).

[Bobbias]

While this isn't directly related to me posting some Japanese, I'd like to point out a great program (if it hasn't already been mentioned before) that I use for typing Japanese, and as a dictionary.

JWPce is an excellent program for typing japanese. I find that I prefer typing in it and copy/pasting it into something than I do using the IME on the computer. And not only does it make typing japanese easy, it has it's own fonts, doesn't require installing the IME, optionally comes with dictionaries, and has numerous methods for looking up kanji. (stroke order, particle, etc.)

[Osha]

Along those lines I have found 漢字そのままDS楽引辞典 immensely useful for looking up unfamiliar kanji and quite affordable if you already have a DS.

[Joeldi]

練習のためにAvatar Intro Monologueを訳してみると思った。

水。　土。　火。　空気。　
昔に四つ国が平和にあります。　それから何もが変わった火国はこおうけきしたら。　すべての四つ要素のマスター”Avatar”が止めさせ出来ました。　でも世界がほとんど要る時にきえリました。　

百の年に後で兄と私は新しいAvatarを見つけました。　エーベンダーはああんぐくんと言います。　エーベンヂングのきじゅつがいいだけれども多くが習わなければなりませんまえにだれでもをすくできます。　だが、私がああんぐは世界をすくえリマすよ。

I figure there is lots of awkwardness, and I don't have much of a handle on dropping my pronouns, which is where I'd most like some feedback on.

[lorena85]

はじめまして、メキシコのロレナです。よろしくお願いします。

四年間大学の言語センターで日本語を勉強しました。 一年まえ大学から卒業しました、今英語の教師として働いています。まだまだぺらぺら話せませんですがほんとうに練習したいからちょっとやてみます。


これからよろしくね =) じゃまたあとで


　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　ロレナ　

[keikeiaznqueen]

はじめまして、ケイです。
日本語を勉強するのはもうすぐ五年です。
でも習うスピードがゆっくりので
今でもまだまだ上手になりません。
いつか上手になりたくて、ぺらぺら話したくて、
そして日本語を話せる私は、東京へ旅行！

[Wufnu]

I had heard a rumor that if you can read Chinese then you can often understand much of Japanese written text. Apparently, this is not the case I can only read the kanji.

如果我用汉语, 你们可以看懂吗？ <-- an experiment

[Kizyr]

如果我用汉语, 你们可以看懂吗？ <-- an experiment

Spoiler:

"If I use Chinese (written text), could you read it?"

对不对？KF

[Wufnu]

对！ At least, perhaps, if I go to Japan I can write something and be understood!

[keikeiaznqueen]

I had heard a rumor that if you can read Chinese then you can often understand much of Japanese written text. Apparently, this is not the case I can only read the kanji.

如果我用汉语, 你们可以看懂吗？ <-- an experiment

Actually, it depends on what a person reads. It's probably more difficult for people who know Japanese to read Chinese. But in some cases, it will be easy for a person who can read Chinese to understand something in Japanese (road signs, EXIT signs, place names, etc). It really depends on where you are and what you are reading, because some words in Japanese kanji are exactly the same in Chinese as it is in Japanese.

But because in a more informal Japanese environment, more kana is used, it becomes almost impossible for a Chinese to understand Japanese text. Also, some kanji in Chinese differs from those of the same meaning in Japanese, so things get confusing too. It's sometimes really fun to learn Japanese kanji that means a certain thing only to have it mean something entirely different in Chinese.

[Kizyr]

对！ At least, perhaps, if I go to Japan I can write something and be understood!

Sorry, I gotta confess that I misled you a bit... I studied Chinese for about a year, so I got everything except 看懂.

But, there is a bit of crossover. When I was there last time, I knew some of the Chinese international students at the same university would sometimes, if they had difficulty expressing something, write it down in hopes that the characters would imply what they were trying to say (similar to how English speakers would say a word as it would be written in kana).

Let me break it down:
如果 - wouldn't be recognized, and "果" is used differently in general
我 - would be recognized; it's not the standard pronoun, but you see it in words like 我々 (us/we)
用 - would definitely be recognized
汉语 - would only be recognized if someone knew these were the simplified characters for "漢語"
你们 - wouldn't be recognized
可以 - probably wouldn't be recognized
看懂 - might be partially recognized; "看" in combination implies looking/seeing something
吗 - wouldn't be recognized

So, you might be able to glean from that that you're asking "[something] I use Chinese characters, [something] see [something]?" Given the context, I think you could make an educated guess as to what you're getting at. KF

[Wufnu]

Thanks for the insight, I've always been curious. It doesn't help that I only know how to use simplified (for now) Perhaps later I can study both, except...

"It's sometimes really fun to learn Japanese kanji that means a certain thing only to have it mean something entirely different in Chinese."

No. This doesn't sound fun at all.

Thanks again! I will leave you to your three different types of writing... /hijack

[iamamy]

I had heard a rumor that if you can read Chinese then you can often understand much of Japanese written text. Apparently, this is not the case I can only read the kanji.

如果我用汉语, 你们可以看懂吗？ <-- an experiment

Actually, it depends on what a person reads. It's probably more difficult for people who know Japanese to read Chinese. But in some cases, it will be easy for a person who can read Chinese to understand something in Japanese (road signs, EXIT signs, place names, etc). It really depends on where you are and what you are reading, because some words in Japanese kanji are exactly the same in Chinese as it is in Japanese.

But because in a more informal Japanese environment, more kana is used, it becomes almost impossible for a Chinese to understand Japanese text. Also, some kanji in Chinese differs from those of the same meaning in Japanese, so things get confusing too. It's sometimes really fun to learn Japanese kanji that means a certain thing only to have it mean something entirely different in Chinese.

Agreed.
If you know Chinese, you can usually get the gist of what a Japanese sentence says in a newspaper or something.
The same KIND of goes the other way around, as I can generally guess what Chinese news subtitles say.
But only simpler things.
I'm always amazed at how well a lot of Chinese speakers speak Japanese.
I think they understand language composition better? I really can't say since I don't know the first thing about Chinese :3

ケイさん、
日本語がとても上手ですね！
普通の日本人が書いた文章みたいです。
それだけしっかり読み書きが出来るなら、きっと日本でも大丈夫でしょう。
頑張って東京へ行ってください。
東京もいいですけど、京都も素敵ですよ。
日本の歴史や文化が学べる、落ち着いた街です。食べ物も美味しいものばかりですよ。


ロレナさん、
メキシコで英語の教師をしているのですか？
それとも日本で教えてるのでしょうか？
違う国の言葉を勉強するには、その国で生活するのが一番だと思います。
まだ日本語があまり上手くないと思っていても、東京や大阪みたいな大都会ではほとんどの物にローマ字や英語が書かれています。
教科書だけでは、会話の流れとか風習がイマイチわかりづらいですからね。


Sorry, I would reply to everyone but I don't think that would be possible..
Good luck to you all!
You might not be feeling confident, but from what I've read, everyone's Japanese is excellent.
If you have any burning questions, feel free to PM me.

頑張ってね〜♪

[Joeldi]

Let me break it down: <snip />

If that was written in traditional characters, instead of simplified, would a lot more be garnable?