日本語 (Japanese Practice)

[Joeldi]

あーー、そうか。

[tastelikecoke]

It kind of helps that わ is rarely used in sentences. The little つ really bewildered me at first.

かんじはむずかしですね。

[Shivahn]

初めまして。　私はジョンです。　高校の最初の年から、最後の年まで日本語を勉強します。　でも、大学に行って、日本語をあまり使わなかったので、ぶんぽとことばを忘れました。　教養課程のために、ふたつ四半期に日本語のクラスを取りました。　今、クラスを取りませんですけど、日本語を忘れたくありません。　そのために、漢字を勉強したり、漫画を読んだり、ゲームをしたりしています。　今、スパーマリオRPGをしています。　たくさん漢字がありませんから、一番いいゲームじゃありません。　でも、大好きだから、とても楽しいです。

どうぞよるしくおねがいします！

(I had to look up 教養課程 as well as 四半期 to write the post, though I did know the latter, I just... didn't know I knew it.)

[Jamotron]

初めまして。　私はジョンです。　高校の最初の年から、最後の年まで日本語を勉強します。　でも、大学に行って、日本語をあまり使わなかったので、ぶんぽとことばを忘れました。　教養課程のために、ふたつ四半期に日本語のクラスを取りました。　今、クラスを取りませんですけど、日本語を忘れたくありません。　そのために、漢字を勉強したり、漫画を読んだり、ゲームをしたりしています。　今、スパーマリオRPGをしています。　たくさん漢字がありませんから、一番いいゲームじゃありません。　でも、大好きだから、とても楽しいです。

どうぞよるしくおねがいします！

(I had to look up 教養課程 as well as 四半期 to write the post, though I did know the latter, I just... didn't know I knew it.)

Hey man, just thought I'd point out a couple of little mistakes you made. Most of them are pretty easy to make so don't worry too much. Also sorry if I seem like a dick for correcting you, but any help is good right?
Also if I've made any mistakes here then I hope someone points them out. I'm not quite a native level speaker but I've got quite a few years of XP under my belt now.

高校の最初の年から、最後の年まで日本語を勉強します

Need to check your tense there.

でも、大学に行って

If I'm getting your meaning correctly I think "iku" (行って as it appears) is the wrong verb here. While in English we might say "But I went to university and didn't use Japanese very much, so I forgot the grammar/vocabulary." we don't mean I went to university in the sense that "iku" portrays. We mean the verb　入る usually.

ふたつ四半期に日本語のクラスを取りました

If you meant to say "In the second quarter I took a Japanese class" then you need to use the ordinal number two here ie ふたつめの四半期

今、クラスを取りませんですけど

In this case using 取っていません might be more appropriate.

たくさん漢字がありませんから

This is an easy mistake to make... If you mean to say there aren't many Kanji, then you shouldn't use たくさん with a negative verb like that. あまり～ない　or　少ない　should be used in it's place. Even though it confuses our English speaking brains by seeming like a double negative (which happens every now and again with Japanese).

[Shivahn]

Thanks for all that. Yeah, looking back on that, I totally massacred tenses. I was pretty unsure about the たくさん。。。ありません, so it's good to know that. It'll take a while to get used to, since it is so different from English.

[Joeldi]

初めまして。　私はジョンです。　高校の最初の年から、最後の年まで日本語を勉強します。　でも、大学に行って、日本語をあまり使わなかったので、ぶんぽとことばを忘れました。　教養課程のために、ふたつ四半期に日本語のクラスを取りました。　今、クラスを取りませんですけど、日本語を忘れたくありません。　そのために、漢字を勉強したり、漫画を読んだり、ゲームをしたりしています。　今、スパーマリオRPGをしています。　たくさん漢字がありませんから、一番いいゲームじゃありません。　でも、大好きだから、とても楽しいです。

どうぞよるしくおねがいします！

I was able to read that, but I've never once been able to get a gist out of any manga or game I've looked at. Could be that I just haven't been trying that hard perhaps.

Also a quick question: what's the exact meaning carried by sentence final ぞ?

[Jamotron]

初めまして。　私はジョンです。　高校の最初の年から、最後の年まで日本語を勉強します。　でも、大学に行って、日本語をあまり使わなかったので、ぶんぽとことばを忘れました。　教養課程のために、ふたつ四半期に日本語のクラスを取りました。　今、クラスを取りませんですけど、日本語を忘れたくありません。　そのために、漢字を勉強したり、漫画を読んだり、ゲームをしたりしています。　今、スパーマリオRPGをしています。　たくさん漢字がありませんから、一番いいゲームじゃありません。　でも、大好きだから、とても楽しいです。

どうぞよるしくおねがいします！

I was able to read that, but I've never once been able to get a gist out of any manga or game I've looked at. Could be that I just haven't been trying that hard perhaps.

Also a quick question: what's the exact meaning carried by sentence final ぞ?

Pretty hard to give it an exact meaning, but it's similar to "yo". Sometimes I just think of it as an exclamation mark.

[kobachi]

Pretty hard to give it an exact meaning, but it's similar to "yo". Sometimes I just think of it as an exclamation mark.

Zo is very abrasive, very assertive, and very, very male. This explanation is a good one:

Zo is harsh. Very harsh. There is no other particle more strongly male and abrasive. It is used exactly the same as yo, except only when you want to say something in the strongest possible terms, like right before you kick someone in the face, or smash them to tiny pieces with a giant robot.

Women, stay far, far away from this particle unless you want to sound like a major tomboy.

Guys who use zo constantly are trying to sound extremely tough. So much, that you will rarely hear it used all that much outside of manga or anime.

[Jamotron]

I've never known it to be that abrasive, though you do get it used a lot by tough guys. What about "ze"? Isn't that more forceful than "zo"?

[Joeldi]

Wow, that's really interesting - I was motivated to ask after my very softly spoken female friend encouraged me to がんばるぞ！I had heard it rather a lot beforehand in anime.

[Shivahn]

When I'm having trouble with specific grammar or particle structures or whatnot, I tend to google something like "Japanese Zo" or "Japanese Zo Grammar" and find that one of the top few websites is usually pretty helpful in that regard. Better than you'd expect.

I kind of figured ぞ was some kind of powerful ending, though, given that the only exposure I've had to it is Bowser in SMRPG.

[kobachi]

Wow, that's really interesting - I was motivated to ask after my very softly spoken female friend encouraged me to がんばるぞ！I had heard it rather a lot beforehand in anime.

がんばるぞ is sort of grammatically ambiguous, but if she was actually saying ぞ as a motivation, it was probably in an ironically-cute way, i.e. "I'm not supposed to say ぞ but I am, that's how much I want you to がんばる!"

[Дерсу Узала]

ヤー。こんにちは、皆。初めまして。日本語を練習したい！
ある年前、ハーバード大学の日本語の二年生だったけど、今、あまり練習しないで、速く忘れていてしまう。
…本当に、まだ覚えるかどうかちょっと分からない。ですが、そのために、練習が良いね？
じゃ、どうぞよろしく。またね。（誰かの和語の上手な人が間違っている文法などを直しくれたら、どうも有難うございますね！）

What I mean to say is:
Hey, g'day everyone. How do you do? I want to practice my Japanese!
A few years ago, I was a second-year student of Japanese at Harvard. But, unfortunately, since I do not practice it often now, I am quickly forgetting it. ...really, I'm not sure whether or not I still remember it at all. But hey, that's why it's good to practice, eh?
Well, nice to meet you. Later. (If someone who is handy at Japanese could correct my grammar mistakes and such, I'd appreciate it!)

[kobachi]

ヤー。こんにちは、皆。初めまして。日本語を練習したい！
ある数年前、ハーバード大学ので日本語の二年生だったけど、今、あまり練習しないので、速く忘れていてしまうしまっている。
…本当に、まだ覚えているかどうかちょっと分からない。ですが、そのために、練習がすれば良いね？
じゃ、どうぞよろしく。またね。

Pretty damn good for a second-year Japanese student of yore. Wish I'd spoken that well after two years

[Дерсу Узала]

どうも！激しい二年間だったのが。kobachiさんがぺらぺらであるの？
質問が一つだけあれ：「数年前」とはどうやって発音するのか（「すう」か「かず」…）？
その表現が聞くことがないから。

[kobachi]

どうも！激しい二年間だったのが。kobachiさんがぺらぺらであるの？
質問が一つだけあれ：「数年前」とはどうやって発音するのか（「すう」か「かず」…）？
その表現が聞くことがないから。

数年前って"some years ago"という意味で、「すうねんまえ」と読むのです。（自分だと）「ある年」というと、具体的な年間について話している感じがします。「ある年前」の方は「before a certain year」という意味になります。

どういう意味で「ぺらぺら」を使っているのかな。日本語を勉強している学生によく「fluent」として使われる言葉なんだけど、「ぺらぺら」は発音、リズムなどだけ説明する言葉なんですよ。いわゆるどのぐらい上手かではなくて、どのぐらい話せる（それか発音できる）ということ。

また、「質問がひとつだけあれり・る・って」と言う方がいいです。「あれ」って「これ、それ」のあれ、それか「有る（ある）」の命令形。

[Дерсу Узала]

数年前って"some years ago"という意味で、「すうねんまえ」と読むのです。（自分だと）「ある年」というと、具体的な年間について話している感じがします。「ある年前」の方は「before a certain year」という意味になります。

あ、分かる。説明してありがとう。もちろん、言いたかったことは、数年前大学で日本語の学生だったこと。

どういう意味で「ぺらぺら」を使っているのかな。日本語を勉強している学生によく「fluent」として使われる言葉なんだけど、「ぺらぺら」は発音、リズムなどだけ説明する言葉なんですよ。いわゆるどのぐらい上手かではなくて、どのぐらい話せる（それか発音できる）ということ。

笑。コムプリメントにとって言いたかったことは、kobachiさんが母語話者みたいということ。（数年前、kobachiさんも日本語の学生だったね？あるいは、日本語が事実に母国語、それじゃ、母語話者らしい。……この見分けが正しくした？（えっ。ちょっと紛らわしい。気にするな。））日本語で、「fluent」の意味をどうやってのべる、正しく言ったら？

また、「質問がひとつだけあれり・る・って」と言う方がいいです。「あれ」って「これ、それ」のあれ、それか「有る（ある）」の命令形。

あ、ぜったい「あり」を書きたかった。だが、タイポしちゃったね。

助けて下さって有難う！

[kobachi]

あ、分かるった。説明してもらってありがとう。もちろん、言いたかったことは、数年前大学で日本語の学生だったこと

笑。コムプリメントにとって言いたかったことは、kobachiさんが母語話者みたいということ。（数年前、kobachiさんも日本語の学生だったね？あるいは、日本語が事実に母国語、それじゃ、母語話者らしい。……この見分けが正しくした？（えっ。ちょっと紛らわしい。気にするな。））日本語で、「fluent」の意味をどうやってのべる、正しく言ったら？

まだ大学生でコンピューターサイエンス、日本語言語学、音楽論を勉強しております。（さすがのｘｋｃｄファンでしょう、笑）と言えば、卒業は今月１２日ですごくわくわくしています。

「みたい」「らしい」（その上「よう」「そう」）のチョイスが推量している情報の源泉や確実度によって決まって、複雑なトピックです。とりあえず今回は「みたい」が一番当ているのです。

「fluent」を直接訳せば「流暢に話せる」といえますが、自分はそれを聞いたことがありません。風通にただ「お上手ですね」とかいわれるんだけど、それがただのお褒めだと思います。実際にfluentになれば、何も言われないでしょう

I've spent the last six months studying classical Japanese and it has brought me a lot of clarity regarding modern Japanese grammar and etymology. I did a quick google search as a refresher re: みたい, らしい, etc. and found this (free?) PDF eBook by Michiel Kamermans. I've only looked at a few pages, but it looks to be a fairly good resource covering most of Japanese grammar using the correct Japanese terms but explaining in plain English with examples. His explanations are a little oversimplified in places, and I've found a few I disagree with, but I think it might still be a useful reference for you and others. Also, the grammar dictionaries he references on page 333 were written by a professor I know and are indeed quite excellent. For the discussion on speculation grammars, see pg. 280-288.

[Jamotron]

I did a quick google search as a refresher re: みたい, らしい, etc. and found this (free?) PDF eBook by Michiel Kamermans.

本当に役に立つ本だね。張り出してありがとう！

[Kizyr]

I've spent the last six months studying classical Japanese and it has brought me a lot of clarity regarding modern Japanese grammar and etymology.

I keep trying to tell people this as one of the many benefits of studying classical Japanese! It gives such a great perspective on the structure of the language and its history.

I still can't understand samurai movies, though. KF

[Lioness]

こんいちは！
私は４年で勉強している。日本語の先生はちょっとへんだけど、先生はかっこい。

私につぃて～

１７才です。ダンスと強度を興味がある。かれしは日本語を２年ならって、私は時々教える。楽しいね。
今年はたいへんスピーチがある。私のスピーチは芸者について話す。

まったね！

And, ah, feel free to correct me if I screw anything up badly.

[Дерсу Узала]

まだ大学生でコンピューターサイエンス、日本語言語学、音楽論を勉強しております。（さすがのｘｋｃｄファンでしょう、笑）と言えば、卒業は今月１２日ですごくわくわくしています。

Congratulations on your graduation. Sounds fascinating. What do you plan to do with your skills? I was going to major in linguistics, but switched off it for maths.

I've spent the last six months studying classical Japanese and it has brought me a lot of clarity regarding modern Japanese grammar and etymology. I did a quick google search as a refresher re: みたい, らしい, etc. and found this (free?) PDF eBook by Michiel Kamermans.

スゴイ！

[Дерсу Узала]

こんいにちは！
…
私は４年で勉強している。

「４年間で勉強した」（"I studied for 4 years"）と言いたかった？

１７才です。ダンスと強度をに興味がある。かれしは日本語を２年ならって、私は時々教える。

また、「２年間で学んで、」の方がいいですね。

（僕が母語話者じゃないだけど、手伝ってみるとする。）

[Lioness]

こんいにちは！
…
私は４年で勉強している。

「４年間で勉強した」（"I studied for 4 years"）と言いたかった？

The　こんにちは　was a typo...whoops.

I meant to say, "I have been studying for 4 years". I'm not sure whether I said that or not...I'm not too good with tenses.

ありがとう。

[Jamotron]

I don't think you need to use the で　particle when talking about how long you've done something. E.g. 「私は日本語を三年間勉強しました。I studied Japanese for 3 years.」

「４年間で勉強した」（"I studied for 4 years"）と言いたかった？

Are you using 言いたかった　here to mean "wanted to say"?　Usually you only use stem+たい　for what you want to do. When talking about someone else use たがる。If you want to express something　that is more like an intention than a wish then Vplain+つもり　is always useful.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... C%A4%EB_1_
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... 2%A4%EA_1_

[kobachi]

I don't think you need to use the で　particle when talking about how long you've done something. E.g. 「私は日本語を三年間勉強しました。I studied Japanese for 3 years.」

「４年間で勉強した」（"I studied for 4 years"）と言いたかった？

Are you using 言いたかった　here to mean "wanted to say"?　Usually you only use stem+たい　for what you want to do. When talking about someone else use たがる。If you want to express something　that is more like an intention than a wish then Vplain+つもり　is always useful.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... C%A4%EB_1_
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... 2%A4%EA_1_

True in the classroom but not in practice. In eight years, I'm not sure I recall /ever/ hearing a native speaker use たがる form. Your advice in つもり is spot on, though.

[Jamotron]

I don't think you need to use the で　particle when talking about how long you've done something. E.g. 「私は日本語を三年間勉強しました。I studied Japanese for 3 years.」

「４年間で勉強した」（"I studied for 4 years"）と言いたかった？

Are you using 言いたかった　here to mean "wanted to say"?　Usually you only use stem+たい　for what you want to do. When talking about someone else use たがる。If you want to express something　that is more like an intention than a wish then Vplain+つもり　is always useful.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... C%A4%EB_1_
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... 2%A4%EA_1_

True in the classroom but not in practice. In eight years, I'm not sure I recall /ever/ hearing a native speaker use たがる form. Your advice in つもり is spot on, though.

Cool, thanks for that

[Lioness]

I've never heard of たがる. I've (just) learned つもり though.

[Kizyr]

Are you using 言いたかった　here to mean "wanted to say"?　Usually you only use stem+たい　for what you want to do. When talking about someone else use たがる。

True in the classroom but not in practice. In eight years, I'm not sure I recall /ever/ hearing a native speaker use たがる form. Your advice in つもり is spot on, though.

I disagree. I've heard -たがる used often in the proper context, while speaking and in speech. You'll usually hear it in present progressive form (-たがって/-たがっている), and normally in situations where you're relaying what someone else says (but not as a translation). So it may not stick out as much.

However, in that particular situation, 言ったつもり would've still been the more accurate thing to say. English uses the word "want" in a broader context, so you want to avoid a direct translation there.

I don't think you need to use the で　particle when talking about how long you've done something. E.g. 「私は日本語を三年間勉強しました。I studied Japanese for 3 years.」

What helps is to consider that lengths/periods/points of time function rather like adverbs. They describe the length of time that a particular action has been going on, and as such modify said action. That's one of the reasons that placement of it is rather flexible and they don't need particles to place them.
例：８年間日本語を勉強していた。　／　日本語を８年間勉強していた。
例：今朝、朝ごはんを食べなかった。

An exception is if you're modifying it with something like ~の間に or such. KF

[kobachi]

Are you using 言いたかった　here to mean "wanted to say"?　Usually you only use stem+たい　for what you want to do. When talking about someone else use たがる。

True in the classroom but not in practice. In eight years, I'm not sure I recall /ever/ hearing a native speaker use たがる form. Your advice in つもり is spot on, though.

I disagree. I've heard -たがる used often in the proper context, while speaking and in speech. You'll usually hear it in present progressive form (-たがって/-たがっている), and normally in situations where you're relaying what someone else says (but not as a translation). So it may not stick out as much.

Yeah, that's the situation that it makes sense in my head, but I just can't recall ever hearing it...

Either way, probably not the best choice for the context.

[enderz]

Did a search, sorry if this is a repost.

I'm tring to get into the swing of things with japanese self study, but I find that I need some direction. Are there any tips or recomended paths I could follow so as to make this process more cohesive?

I've learned hiraganna and katakanna but I've hit a wall.

Notes: My end goal is to immigrate.

[Jamotron]

Did a search, sorry if this is a repost.

I'm tring to get into the swing of things with japanese self study, but I find that I need some direction. Are there any tips or recomended paths I could follow so as to make this process more cohesive?

I've learned hiraganna and katakanna but I've hit a wall.

Notes: My end goal is to immigrate.

What materials are you using to study? The Genki! series of text books are used very widly and are considered pretty good. I used the second one in my first year at university, it was pretty decent. Suggest you also experiment with different methods of learning kanji, but really the best advice is to make sure you do a little bit each day and try to find a native speaker to chat with.

[sejine]

こにちわ!　はじめまして!　　私の名前はレズリーです。　　らいのあき（？Ｈｏｗ　ｄｏ　ｙｏｕ　ｓａｙ　ｎｅｘｔ　ｆａｌｌ？）高校一年生ですから、日本語の３年生です。

私の趣味は読書や、テレビゲームや、テレビのダラマス（sp?）などです。　　音楽をたくさん聞きます。　　じつは、ちかじかに、私のせんこうは、neuropsychology　か、社会学　か、　映画　か、音楽　を弁居したいです。

私の日本語はにがてですが、日本語習いたいです。

さようなら!!

～レズリー

Translation: Hello! Nice to meet you! My name is Leslie. Next fall, I'll be a sophomore and a 3rd year Japanese student.

My hobbies/interests include reading, videogames, TV dramas, etc. I listen to a lot of music. In the near future, as a matter of fact, I want to major in either neuropsychology, sociology, music, or film. My Japanese isn't that good.


Yeah, so my Japanese isn't that good. I need looootsss of help with grammar and kanji (thank you auto conversion).

[Cooking Utensil]

I disagree. I've heard -たがる used often in the proper context, while speaking and in speech. You'll usually hear it in present progressive form (-たがって/-たがっている), and normally in situations where you're relaying what someone else says (but not as a translation). So it may not stick out as much.

I created an account partly to respond to this, and partly to join the discussion.

You pretty much covered it all, I just wanted to add that 〜たがる or 〜たがっている or any other conjugation is explained most simply like so: it is stating what someone who is not present wants to do.

Anywho, quick intro: I'm a graphic designer living and working in Osaka, Japan. I've been here for a couple years, and work hard every day to improve my Japanese. People have asked me over and over how to improve this or that, so I'm more than happy to help field any questions on this board. Oh, also worth pointing out: I learned Japanese in Osaka, so I can only speak Kansai dialect. I know a thing or two about Tokyo dialect and Standard Japanese, of course, but I don't exactly go out of my way to speak it

I'm also pretty decent at helping guys stop talking like girls. Here's a hint, fellas: if you ever end a sentence with ね (unless you're speaking politely) or の, stop it.

よろしく！

[Joeldi]

I'm also pretty decent at helping guys stop talking like girls. Here's a hint, fellas: if you ever end a sentence with ね (unless you're speaking politely) or の, stop it.

The thing is: This is the xkcd fora. I've not been exposed to a community more adamant about gender equality and the blurring of lines between male and female. I'm sure there's a section of people here who would see merit in going out of their way to speak a vernacular they are not culturally expected to. I'm partly like that, but also am interested in such quirks of language, as well as being scared of ostracism and ridicule. Oh well.

[Lioness]

I'm also pretty decent at helping guys stop talking like girls. Here's a hint, fellas: if you ever end a sentence with ね (unless you're speaking politely) or の, stop it.

I know a girl who often refers to herself as "僕". THat's not really a common thing, is it?

[Jamotron]

Really it's not what you say it's the way that you say it. And context is king too, there are basically no hard and fast dos and don'ts.

[Graagh]

Out of curiosity, and because I'd feel way too awkward asking my 先生, but what would be expected for a gay man's speech style, if anything? Right now I just try to avoid using really masculine or feminine things, but I was wondering if there was any sort of precedent to follow here. (On that note, what is the appropriate way to even say gay? My dictionary is being useless, and I'm afraid I can never get nuance right when I look in huge online ones...)

[Jamotron]

Out of curiosity, and because I'd feel way too awkward asking my 先生, but what would be expected for a gay man's speech style, if anything? Right now I just try to avoid using really masculine or feminine things, but I was wondering if there was any sort of precedent to follow here. (On that note, what is the appropriate way to even say gay? My dictionary is being useless, and I'm afraid I can never get nuance right when I look in huge online ones...)

Believe it or not I've hear people say "Homo", but who knows how acceptable that is... You probably need to find a gay Japanese speaker and ask them, but Wiki has small section on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... erminology

[Joeldi]

My pocket Oxford lists どうせいあいしゃ　(同性愛者）The kanji means same-sex-love-person, so yeah.