Not much on Korean on here!

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bobsbarricades
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Not much on Korean on here!

Postby bobsbarricades » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:27 am UTC

I'm about to move to SoKo here in a week and did a search and didn't come up with too much on Korean! Anybody here speak it? Learn it as a second language? Visited?

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bobsbarricades
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby bobsbarricades » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:49 pm UTC

man....really not much =)

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ZLVT
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby ZLVT » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:27 pm UTC

well, I can only tell you what wiki tells me. Phonologically close to Mandarin, precursor to Japanese and linguistically isolate. The spelling is strange but very easy to master and compleetly regualr given that it was in fact artificially created not too long ago.
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Kosana
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby Kosana » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:40 pm UTC

Sogang's University has an English section where there's online Korean language training. It's not completely without flaws, but it's certainly better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Plus it's free :D

goofy
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby goofy » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:07 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:well, I can only tell you what wiki tells me. Phonologically close to Mandarin, precursor to Japanese and linguistically isolate.


I can't be both an isolate and a precursor to Japanese. Some people think Korean and Japanese are related, some think both Korean and Japanese are isolates (ie, unrelated to each other and to all other languages).

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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby Kosana » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:28 pm UTC

That's quite interesting, Wiki's stance.

I'm learning Korean, am a linguistics major at UBC, and have a Korean student living at my house while she takes her TESOL Program. I don't profess to be an expert, however, I do have firm personal opinions about what I think Korean is and is like.

If you haven't heard, Koreans feel they speak a language derived from the Chinese. They even used Chinese symbols, albeit with different meanings, (called Hanja) up until King Sejong's reign. I just love this guy. The myth is, that when he decided that Korea would be better off with their own written language since their spoken language had evolved so distinctly, he took his inspiration from the way that the raindrops outside his window squiggled their way down. The deliberate decisions made in creating the written language was, supposedly, for the direct purpose of making possible a high level of literacy in all of Korea. No surprise, Korea has one of the highest literacy rates ever. I myself can read (sound out, comfortably) Hanguk perfectly, and have done so since 2 weeks into my lessons. Understanding the meaning, verbs, and prepositional usage, are taking a lot longer for me, as I have full time work AND school, but it doesn't diminish from the fact that Koreans created a very user-friendly writing system. I also am fairly certain that it was not influenced by the Japanese, though I have no knowledge of whether the Japanese, when they later invaded Korea, were influenced in their evolution of Hiragana & Katakana. The Koreans are often understandably biased against questions pertaining to the Japanese occupation.

Now every Korean I've met has told me, however, that Korean grammar is horribly difficult. I'm not yet sure if that's a cultural bias (it seems to be so far) or if it is merely true for other Asian groups attempting to learn Korean. I myself had a lot of trouble and eventually gave up trying to learn German, as I'd mastered French and found them too similar for my compartmentalization techniques to work. Others may not have this problem.

I love learning Korean, and find it a fascinating language, ripe with character, challenge, and elegance. If anyone wants to practice with me, or just chat about it, feel free to drop me a line! :D

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bobsbarricades
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby bobsbarricades » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:53 pm UTC

I guess I definitely should've clarified that I did a search on these forums and didn't fid much. :P

Thanks for the reply Kosana! That's actually exactly the kind of post I was looking for, personal experience! Thank you for sharing. I'm curious about your 'compartmentalization techniques' that you mentioned. Is that a memory technique you use? Like having a house full of references that are like connections to facts? Hanguk? Is that the traditional way of saying Hangul? Or are they different?

Thanks for the Sogang University tip too! I will look into that as my eyes are getting quite tired ;)

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ZLVT
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby ZLVT » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:52 pm UTC

goofy wrote:
ZLVT wrote:well, I can only tell you what wiki tells me. Phonologically close to Mandarin, precursor to Japanese and linguistically isolate.


I can't be both an isolate and a precursor to Japanese. Some people think Korean and Japanese are related, some think both Korean and Japanese are isolates (ie, unrelated to each other and to all other languages).


From my understanding, a group of Koreans, persecuted for their religion fled to Japan (killing the indigenous Ainu) and settled, where their language evolved and changed, taking many aspects of orher lanaguegs or soemthing to this effect.
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bobsbarricades
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby bobsbarricades » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:40 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:
goofy wrote:From my understanding, a group of Koreans, persecuted for their religion fled to Japan (killing the indigenous Ainu) and settled, where their language evolved and changed, taking many aspects of orher lanaguegs or soemthing to this effect.


Are you talking about these guys in Yanbian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanbian_Ko ... Prefecture

Or something totally different. I would love some more info! The more the better before I get there. [Which will be this Sunday!]

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steewi
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby steewi » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:28 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:
goofy wrote:
ZLVT wrote:well, I can only tell you what wiki tells me. Phonologically close to Mandarin, precursor to Japanese and linguistically isolate.


I can't be both an isolate and a precursor to Japanese. Some people think Korean and Japanese are related, some think both Korean and Japanese are isolates (ie, unrelated to each other and to all other languages).


From my understanding, a group of Koreans, persecuted for their religion fled to Japan (killing the indigenous Ainu) and settled, where their language evolved and changed, taking many aspects of orher lanaguegs or soemthing to this effect.


I think that comes under crackpot theories. The general belief* is that Japanese and Korean are at most only distantly related, but their proximity has given them some shared features.

*note: belief - the evidence for things this far back is sketchy, no matter what.

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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby Kosana » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:34 pm UTC

Lol, sorry Bob, the Hanguk was a type (should have been Hangul)
I believe Hanguk means Korea a sa whole, or Korean as in the race. Hangul means Korean, as in the written word/alphabet.

As an aside, I am freaking excited about the fact that Koreans HAVE an alphabet. Not to be too Westernly-biased, but wouldn't a deliberately created language for easy learning and clarity's use of an alphabet over a syllabary give some weight to the argument that Alphabets > awesomer than pictographic or syllabic writing systems?
Of course quite a bit of what makes it so easy is that the individual phonetic sounds (read alphabet letters) are then grouped in syllabic blocks. *ponders* When you get deeper into the "spelling" and such, it must help to have so few silent letters, and the blocks themselves... well.. there are only a certain number of combinations possible.
Also, any alphabet eventually gets translate into pictographic representations, or at least that's how I interpret how I often read. Maybe someone else can put some of their opinion on this.
- When you read, do you sound out letters, or do you have certain words where you view the whole shape and infer meaning?

If you want to start learning Hangul, Bob, I recommend memorizing the alphabet they use first. I found a geeky fun way to do so was to try writing English words, phrases, messages. It was kinda like my own code, and was both fun and helped me learn the characters much more quickly than I would have just flat memorizing things. It's easy to become overwhelmed by the look of a sentence in Hangul if you've not already trained your brain to consider the squiggles as having meaning.
Also take a look at some of the vowels. Instead of English, where we would use 2 symbols for the word we ([ui]?) in Korean, the one alphabet letter used is actually made up of the Hangul characters for [u] and [i] together, what looks like a T with another one rotated right 90 degrees intersecting it slightly. I have to say, this makes pronunciation pretty easy.

**Be warned, however, as Koreans will look at you VERY strangely if they see/hear you using their alphabet to make English code. It doesn't seem to make sense to them why you would try to make up imaginary words. They don't equate their alphabet as being interchangeable to ours, so they see their characters but there is no meaning. I mean like... don't sit next to the crazy-guy on the bus wierd.

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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby Kosana » Fri Sep 26, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Also, on Compartamentalization Techniques.

Eerily similar to the Memory Warehouse? Maaaaaybe. :)

Actually it's more like.. when I discovered pronoun endings that were tagged as masculine become neuter if the verb gets put before the subject in a sentence (in order to emphasize what action is being taken over who is doing said action) I flipped my dingus.
In French, the ending -elle is always a female ending, regardles of what it it attached to.
In German, the ending -ein is evil, and should be shat on by random bullfrogs.*

With Korean, Japanese, and even Bulgarian, I have no trouble avoiding sliding into French by accident, but I did have that problem with German. I figure it's mostly in my head, but yeah.



*This could just be the -I failed due to my inability to manage it- frustration talking.

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4=5
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby 4=5 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:01 am UTC

From genetics it looks like the japanese migrated from korea several thousand years ago. Neither group would appreciate you bringing that up.

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dirtyessene
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby dirtyessene » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:14 am UTC

I actually live here [there?], and am swimming the sea that is the Korean language. Ask away, or PM me if you don't wanna thread jack your own thread.

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bobsbarricades
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Re: Not much on Korean on here!

Postby bobsbarricades » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:54 pm UTC

Thanks again Kosana! I'm finally here, been here for about 2 weeks, and I've learned Hangul and can read it; very very very slowly =P But I'm getting faster. Luckily almost all korean TV has subtitles so I practice reading those as much as possible, which is making me watch more TV than I ever have before!

I'm really enjoying it here and am trying to learn the language as fast as possible but it's taking longer than expected. But I'm being too ambitious I think as it's only been 3 weeks.

Dirtyessene - How long have you been here? What part of SoKo do you live in? I'm in Daejeon and really lovin' it. How long did it take you to become familiar with all the sounds? Internalize it I mean.


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