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Pointlessly adding 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:00 pm UTC
by skellious
I have noticed that a lot of my friends have started to add 's' to the end of words for no apparent reason "I knows" "Fair do's" (although fair do's is possibly a corruption of "fair dues"?) "okies" and so on.

What does the language forum think of this practice? Is it 'cute' or is it just annoying? (gmalivuk is just annoying :P)

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:06 pm UTC
by Bobber
They are saying "fair deuce", not fair do's.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:17 pm UTC
by skellious
nope, my frieds are saying fair does, they even write that; deuce would not be pronounced the same way in this area. But you could be right in that they have corrupted deuce. thanks for the suggestion :)

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:26 pm UTC
by Bobber
Aha, okay. My friends and I use fair deuce a lot, so that's why it seemed to me as if they were probably saying that.

What does "fair does" mean? It seems like nonsense to me.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:34 pm UTC
by skellious
as I say I expect a corruption of "fair dues", as in "I acknowledge the respect [you/your statement] deserves" - My friends certainly seem to use it that way, as an example:

A: "I love to watch football on TV"
B: "While I enjoy playing the game, I don't like to watch it, the commercialisation has ruined it for me."
A: "Ah, fair does."

(note: does is pronounced with a long oo sound, like too, and not like dough.)

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:44 pm UTC
by Pez Dispens3r
Unnecessarily pluralizing words, as in 'I knows', 'oh noes', or 'the internets', is just a colloquial technique of making your speech seem more immature. It's not unlike saying, "Pizza: om nom nom." It's not pointless, because the point of it is to sound more informal. Outside of academic publications, this sort of practice is completely fine.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:51 pm UTC
by bigglesworth
Yeah, it's either making your speech sound like that of an infant or like that of someone with a poor grasp of English.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:56 pm UTC
by Bobber
bigglesworth wrote:Yeah, it's either making your speech sound like that of an infant or like that of someone with a poor grasp of English.
This sounds pejorative, but because of the internet and all, I can't tell if this was your intention. Don't you just mean that it makes your speech sound (MUCH) less formal? Maybe a person who heard this fifteen years ago would have thought of it as you describe, but I have a feeling that the amount of use this has seen has helped some different connotations to form.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:57 pm UTC
by skellious
it seems to spread like a craze though... why here and why now?? :(

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:30 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
skellious wrote:(note: does is pronounced with a long oo sound, like too, and not like dough.)

And yet they spell it the same as one word with the same vowel as dough and another with the same vowel as duh? That's a stupid spelling.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:21 pm UTC
by Monika
bigglesworth wrote:Yeah, it's either making your speech sound like that of an infant or like that of someone with a poor grasp of English.

Nah, it just makes your speech sound like a) you're a teenager or b) you spend too much time on the internets, possibly around teenagers :D .

Similarly, I caught a serious case of "^^" after playing a browser game for some months whose players were often under-age. There is no way to get rid of this afterwards, there is no known cure.


gmalivuk wrote:
skellious wrote:(note: does is pronounced with a long oo sound, like too, and not like dough.)

And yet they spell it the same as one word with the same vowel as dough and another with the same vowel as duh? That's a stupid spelling.

I'd say spelling the normal "does" (as in "he/she/it does") like "does" is a stupid spelling in the first place. Is there even any other word where "oe" is pronounced [ĘŚ]? And, thinking about it, I get the impression that "do" is not such a great spelling, either, as "(long) o" is usually pronounced as in "go". So, watcha think, "(he/she/it) dus" and "(they) doo" it is then?


Man did "does" ever throw me off in "Mares eat oats, and does eat oats, and little lambs eat ivy, A kid'll eat ivy too, wouldn't you?" in the Java Tutorial on Threads. I think I shall need to write "Why Not To Use Nursery Rhymes As Sample Text In Tutorials Directed At An International Audience" some time.
This reminds me: My sister watched a lot of "Who wants to be a millionaire" while she was in the US (b/c ABC was the only channel they got on the farm). She could often answer higher level questions, but hardly ever any of the initial five ones that are considered a give-away ... because they typically involved nursery rimes. Not the kind of material normally printed in English as a foreign language books.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:48 pm UTC
by Makri
I'd say spelling the normal "does" (as in "he/she/it does") like "does" is a stupid spelling in the first place.


Well, if you argue like this, then every Enlish spelling whatsoever will turn out to be stupid. :p However, given the stupidity of English orthography, it does seem stupid to write a word A that is pronounced differently from a well-known and highly frequent word B the same as B.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:12 pm UTC
by skellious
so we are agreed? It was a crap idea to use English in the first place?

Unfortunately I suspect this is a case of "English is the worst language for international commmunication, except for all the others that have been tried" (if you dont get the reference, look here)

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:52 am UTC
by Pez Dispens3r
skellious wrote:it seems to spread like a craze though... why here and why now?? :(

Why the sad face? It's here now because it's infectious, as was rhyming slang at one time. Brick is a cool illustration of language that was popular towards the beginning of the twentieth century. It's just one of those fashions that has briefly taken the language. You may as well have a sad about people abandoning homburgs for trilbys.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:16 am UTC
by skellious
I don't get annoied by hats on other people's heads though...

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:46 am UTC
by Pez Dispens3r
skellious wrote:I don't get annoied by hats on other people's heads though...

What, never? In any event, consider what it means about yourself if you're annoyed by something your friends find fashionable. Either you have some capacity for taste none of them possess (in which case you ought to find new friends), or you're a grumpy pedant.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:42 am UTC
by skellious
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
skellious wrote:I don't get annoied by hats on other people's heads though...

What, never?


It's not the hat that worries me, it's the sunglasses :S

Pez Dispens3r wrote:grumpy pedant.


This.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:26 pm UTC
by Zamfir
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
skellious wrote:I don't get annoied by hats on other people's heads though...

What, never? In any event, consider what it means about yourself if you're annoyed by something your friends find fashionable. Either you have some capacity for taste none of them possess (in which case you ought to find new friends), or you're a grumpy pedant.


I don;t think that's fair. These slightly jokey changes to your language are almost always a form of incrowd markers. If for some random reason you don't like one of them, you have the choice between joining anyway, and putting yourself slightly apart form the group. Both hurt a bit.

It's as when a group of your friends takes someone new in who you don't particularly like. You can't really blame them for liking the new guy, but you now have to choose whether to hang out less with the group, or to hang out with someone you don't like.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:38 pm UTC
by Monika
Makri wrote:
I'd say spelling the normal "does" (as in "he/she/it does") like "does" is a stupid spelling in the first place.


Well, if you argue like this, then every Enlish spelling whatsoever will turn out to be stupid. :p

I think "goes" is a pretty reasonable spelling for "goes" :D

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:41 pm UTC
by skellious
Zamfir wrote:It's as when a group of your friends takes someone new in who you don't particularly like. You can't really blame them for liking the new guy, but you now have to choose whether to hang out less with the group, or to hang out with someone you don't like.


Funny you should say that... :P

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:57 pm UTC
by Pez Dispens3r
Zamfir wrote:
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
skellious wrote:I don't get annoied by hats on other people's heads though...

What, never? In any event, consider what it means about yourself if you're annoyed by something your friends find fashionable. Either you have some capacity for taste none of them possess (in which case you ought to find new friends), or you're a grumpy pedant.


I don;t think that's fair. These slightly jokey changes to your language are almost always a form of incrowd markers. If for some random reason you don't like one of them, you have the choice between joining anyway, and putting yourself slightly apart form the group. Both hurt a bit.

It's as when a group of your friends takes someone new in who you don't particularly like. You can't really blame them for liking the new guy, but you now have to choose whether to hang out less with the group, or to hang out with someone you don't like.

Yes but what the pedant does is say, "My standard English is the correct one, and if you deviate from it you're being wrong." Which is a little bit like, upon being introduced to the new member of your friendship group, telling them they're annoying and should dick off. Such an attitude is not only impolite, but it also works to limit creativity and expression in human communication.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:10 pm UTC
by skellious
to be honest I support the freedom of the English language to change, the origional question was about other people's opinion of this change, rather than me making a personal complaint.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:17 pm UTC
by Zamfir
Pez Dispens3r wrote:Yes but what the pedant does is say, "My standard English is the correct one, and if you deviate from it you're being wrong." Which is a little bit like, upon being introduced to the new member of your friendship group, telling them they're annoying and should dick off. Such an attitude is not only impolite, but it also works to limit creativity and expression in human communication.

But in cases like this, people are very aware that they are using non-standard language, and the purpose is to some extent to exclude people who can't exactly match their new usage. That's not completely polite in itself. When you continue around someone who hasn't joined, you're making a subtle point that the group is more important than that individual.

Of course, groups of friends do loads of such things, and sometimes one person gets left out, sometimes another, and it can balance out in the end. The trouble with these language things is that they can be a symptom of a larger divide: some of the group meet each other more often , or they understand each other better, so they develop a funny bit of their own langauge to a level not everyone can share.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:31 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Zamfir wrote:the purpose is to some extent to exclude people who can't exactly match their new usage.

How do you figure that? This might be one of the effects of it, but I imagine the purpose is generally to have fun with friends, same as most things you do for fun with your friends.

Incidentally, this is why my roommates and I decided it would be a bad idea to host an international student from one of the nearby language schools. Though I'm an English teacher and speak carefully and correctly at work, at home I use all kinds of nonstandard words and phrases, just to have a bit of fun. We figured this would be too confusing for any poor sod who wanted to do a homestay in order to continue improving their standard English, instead of learning Internet-isms...

Re: Pointlesslies addings 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:47 pm UTC
by Monika
Did the title of the thread just change? :suspect: (At least I am pretty sure it used to say "Pointlessly".)

Re: Pointlesslies addings 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:01 pm UTC
by Meteorswarm
Monika wrote:Did the title of the thread just change? :suspect: (At least I am pretty sure it used to say "Pointlessly".)


Wes have always beens at wars with Easts Asias.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:13 pm UTC
by Zamfir
gmalivuk wrote:
Zamfir wrote:the purpose is to some extent to exclude people who can't exactly match their new usage.

How do you figure that? This might be one of the effects of it, but I imagine the purpose is generally to have fun with friends, same as most things you do for fun with your friends.

I don't mean that the exclusion is a conscious effort. More that at least part of the fun is related to the feeling of forming a group and reaffirming the bonds in it, which of course has an exclusionary component to it. A lot of incrowd jokes for example are not really that funny in themselves, and you cant 'really explain them to outsiders. The same for re-telling shared experiences, "And then you did X", "Haha, yes, and then I did Y and then you...". The experiences themselves are not the main point, it's mostly the feeling of having being there together that makes it fun.

In particular, I didn''t mean that his friends were trying to exclude the OP, more that they were forming bonds that accidentally excluded the OP, and that this might be the reason why a small thing like adding an "s" to words feels so annoying to others.
gmalivuk wrote:
Incidentally, this is why my roommates and I decided it would be a bad idea to host an international student from one of the nearby language schools. Though I'm an English teacher and speak carefully and correctly at work, at home I use all kinds of nonstandard words and phrases, just to have a bit of fun. We figured this would be too confusing for any poor sod who wanted to do a homestay in order to continue improving their standard English, instead of learning Internet-isms...

Well, ont he other hand, those students are also there to learn real English, not just standard English.

Re: Pointlesslies addings 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:14 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Look at the bottom of the first post. Yes, I changed the title, and I publicly admitted to doing so right there in the post.

(Also, when a thread title changes you can check by comparing the subject of new replies to that of old replies.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:01 pm UTC
by skellious
<Rage> *rage censored because I like this forum a lot and something tells me raging at the mods for playing silly buggers with your subject is not a good long-term survival strategy* </Rage>

Re: Pointlesslies addings 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:03 pm UTC
by gmalivuk
Yeah, you'll enjoy your time here more if you understand and accept that "because it's funny" is the reason we do a lot of otherwise pointless (and also harmless) modding around here.

Re: Pointlesslies addings 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:20 pm UTC
by Monika
Meteorswarm wrote:
Monika wrote:Did the title of the thread just change? :suspect: (At least I am pretty sure it used to say "Pointlessly".)

Wes have always beens at wars with Easts Asias.

:lol:

gmalivuk wrote:Look at the bottom of the first post. Yes, I changed the title, and I publicly admitted to doing so right there in the post.

(Also, when a thread title changes you can check by comparing the subject of new replies to that of old replies.

Ah, I see it now.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:23 pm UTC
by skellious
I wrote a long post rant then deleted it because I realised no one would care about me or my feelings on the matter.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:04 pm UTC
by Monika
skellious wrote:I wrote a long post rant then deleted it because I realised no one would care about me or my feelings on the matter.

{{{ skellious }}}

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:16 pm UTC
by skellious
what do the brackets mean? Also, headache now gone so feeling much better, seems i had a critical sense of humour failure, sorry all!

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:23 pm UTC
by bigglesworth
It's a way of denoting *hugs* to the person mentioned in the brackets.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:36 pm UTC
by skellious
Oh if that is the case then thank you Monika :)

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:20 pm UTC
by Monika
Yep, exactly, they're arms, for hugs. Sometimes also written like this: ((( skellious )))

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm UTC
by AndrewT
I suppose it's (unintentionally I'm sure) a parallel to styles like The Beatles' Come Together, where plurals and other grammatical -s endings are dropped.

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the ends of words

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:35 am UTC
by Sizik
Spoiler:
Image

Re: Pointlessly adding 's' to the end of words

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:11 am UTC
by Pez Dispens3r
skellious wrote:to be honest I support the freedom of the English language to change, the origional question was about other people's opinion of this change, rather than me making a personal complaint.

Yes, but this is the wrong forum to ask if a particular usage is annoying, especially when you're trying to solicit support for your annoyance (for the record, anything cute is also annoying. There are no exceptions). This is the Linguistics forum, and linguists only ever find word usages interesting. You want the Grammarian forum, where people attach their emotions to arbitrary or inconsistent rules, which can be found here.