Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

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Mega85
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:00 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:Yeah, my "want" vowel varies from "wand" to "font" depending on context.


I use the same vowel in "wand" and "font", /ɑ/. my "want" rhymes with "punt" and "hunt" rather than "font" or "taunt". the rare word "wont" I would pronounce to rhyme with "font" and "taunt", /wɑnt/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Lazar » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:09 pm UTC

For "wont" I use /woʊnt/, which I picked up from the British side of my family.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:06 pm UTC

Mega85 wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:Yeah, my "want" vowel varies from "wand" to "font" depending on context.


I use the same vowel in "wand" and "font", /ɑ/. my "want" rhymes with "punt" and "hunt" rather than "font" or "taunt". the rare word "wont" I would pronounce to rhyme with "font" and "taunt", /wɑnt/.

All the same for me.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby pogrmman » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:24 pm UTC

My "want" vowel is the same as "punt" and "hunt", so /ʌ/. "Won't" is the same as the vowel in "own" and "phone", so /oʊ/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:56 pm UTC

How do you pronounce "quart" and "quarter"? with a consonant cluster /kw/ or a single consonant /k/? I pronounce them with /k/. /kɔɹt/ and /kɔɹtɚ/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:59 pm UTC

Lazar wrote:For "wont" I use /woʊnt/, which I picked up from the British side of my family.

In do too, rhyming with "won't". But I hardly ever say it anyway, and on the rare occasion I do, people tend to get confused. I feel like rhyming it with "want" would be even more confusing though, since that is an actual noun and is hard to distinguish from "wont" from context alone.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:04 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:My "want" vowel is the same as "punt" and "hunt", so /ʌ/. "Won't" is the same as the vowel in "own" and "phone", so /oʊ/.


I pronounce "won't" the same way, with /oʊ/. "wont" is a different word from the contraction "won't". it is a word that is rarely used. "want", "wont" and "won't" are all distinct for me.

"want" = /wʌnt/
"wont" = /wɑnt/
"won't" = /woʊnt/

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:13 am UTC

Mega85 wrote:How do you pronounce "quart" and "quarter"? with a consonant cluster /kw/ or a single consonant /k/? I pronounce them with /k/. /kɔɹt/ and /kɔɹtɚ/.

/kɔɹt/ for both. My manager pronounces it /kwɑ:tɚ/, and it kind of annoys me. I'm not sure I've heard that pronunciation anywhere else.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:16 pm UTC

Derek wrote:
Mega85 wrote:How do you pronounce "quart" and "quarter"? with a consonant cluster /kw/ or a single consonant /k/? I pronounce them with /k/. /kɔɹt/ and /kɔɹtɚ/.

/kɔɹt/ for both. My manager pronounces it /kwɑ:tɚ/, and it kind of annoys me. I'm not sure I've heard that pronunciation anywhere else.


Merriam-Webster actually list a pronunciation similar to your manager's as optional for "quarter".

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quarter

Apparently some people have dissimilation in the word "quarter". I have it in "surprise", "caterpillar", "governor", "comforter" and "particular" (I don't pronounce the first "r" in those words), but not "quarter".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Aiwendil » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:28 pm UTC

Mega85 wrote:
Eebster the Great wrote:Yeah, my "want" vowel varies from "wand" to "font" depending on context.


I use the same vowel in "wand" and "font", /ɑ/. my "want" rhymes with "punt" and "hunt" rather than "font" or "taunt". the rare word "wont" I would pronounce to rhyme with "font" and "taunt", /wɑnt/.


All those have the same vowel for me, /ɑ/, except for "taunt", which has /ɔ/. (And "wand" has a longer vowel, but the same quality).

Derek wrote:/kɔɹt/ for both


Do you mean that "quarter" is one syllable for you (i.e. you don't pronounce the "er"), or are you just talking about the first syllable?

I usually pronounce them with /kw/, but in quick speech it sometimes gets reduced to /k/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:47 pm UTC

Aiwendil wrote:
Derek wrote:/kɔɹt/ for both


Do you mean that "quarter" is one syllable for you (i.e. you don't pronounce the "er"), or are you just talking about the first syllable?

I usually pronounce them with /kw/, but in quick speech it sometimes gets reduced to /k/.

Just talking about the first syllable, I'm lazy and didn't want to repeat myself. But now you've made me write this and lose more effort than I had saved. :(

Apparently some people have dissimilation in the word "quarter". I have it in "surprise", "caterpillar", "governor", "comforter" and "particular" (I don't pronounce the first "r" in those words), but not "quarter".

I think I tend to drop the R in all of these except "comforter", or when I'm trying to enunciate clearly.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:11 pm UTC

I only have a w in quart, not in quarter, but I hear all variants pretty often.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:28 pm UTC

It's weird that I've never heard the w-less version of "quarter", despite the coin being mentioned in plenty of American shows. The closest I can remember hearing was a scene in the old Transformers cartoon where Megatron noticeably pronounces "headquarters" without the w sound.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Aiwendil » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:53 am UTC

flicky1991 wrote:It's weird that I've never heard the w-less version of "quarter", despite the coin being mentioned in plenty of American shows. The closest I can remember hearing was a scene in the old Transformers cartoon where Megatron noticeably pronounces "headquarters" without the w sound.


The two pronunciations are really quite similar sounding (at least to me), so much so that unless someone is speaking slowly, I'd have to be paying really close attention to discern which they used. It's possible you've heard the w-less version and not noticed it.

On the other hand, this partial confusion between the sounds might just be me. I remember that, growing up, I for a long time mis-analyzed "scorpion" as beginning with /skwɔɹ/ rather than /skɔɹ/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Lazar » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:38 am UTC

I say "quart" and "quarter" with /w/ and /ɹ…ɹ/; I drop the medial /ɹ/ in "surprise", "caterpillar", "governor" and "particular", but not "comforter". Despite my location, I'm consistently rhotic outside of those.

I've heard the occasional person use a /w/ in "sword", which I think is a spelling pronunciation rather than a retention – though I could be wrong.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby chridd » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:06 am UTC

I think I'd use /kwoɹt(ɚ)/ in careful speech, but I might drop the /w/ when talking less carefully (I'm not sure which).
surprise: /səpraɪz/ (but maybe sometimes with /ɚ/)
caterpillar: /kætɚpɪlɚ/, definitely with both r's
governor: either (I think with both r's in careful speech)
particular: /pɹə.ˈtɪk.jə.lɚ/ ("praticular")
comforter: /kʌmfɚtɚ/, definitely with both r's
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:03 am UTC

Lazar wrote:I've heard the occasional person use a /w/ in "sword", which I think is a spelling pronunciation rather than a retention – though I could be wrong.

Is there any explanation as to why the "w" in "sword" was historically dropped? It's pronounced in "sworn", so it seems it wasn't a general sound change.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:31 pm UTC

Derek wrote:
Lazar wrote:I've heard the occasional person use a /w/ in "sword", which I think is a spelling pronunciation rather than a retention – though I could be wrong.

Is there any explanation as to why the "w" in "sword" was historically dropped? It's pronounced in "sworn", so it seems it wasn't a general sound change.


Dissimilation due to the rounded vowel in "sword" which is also why the /w/ was dropped in "two" and "who/whom/whose". "sworn" kept the /w/ due to its relation to the word "swear".

How do you pronounce "we'll"? For me, it's a homonym of "will", not "wheel". Likewise "he'll" is a homonym of "hill", not "heel".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:20 am UTC

Mega85 wrote:How do you pronounce "we'll"? For me, it's a homonym of "will", not "wheel". Likewise "he'll" is a homonym of "hill", not "heel".

In casual speech I'm pretty sure I say them like /wɛl/ and /hɛl/. In more careful speech I might say /wi:l/ and /hi:l/. I've definitely heard all forms though.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:37 pm UTC

I think I have wɪə̯l instead of wi:l making it homophonous with neither.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Lazar » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:27 pm UTC

When stressed, they're something like [hiɪɫ]/[wiɪɫ], rhyming with "feel"; when unstressed, they're either [hiɫ]/[wiɫ] or [hɪɫ]/[wɪɫ].
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby chridd » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:47 am UTC

For me, when stressed, he'll = hill, we'll = will (but heel and wheel are also both possible; I'm not sure when exactly I'd use either); unstressed, I think he'll is still hill, but we'll is /wl̩/. Also while = wall, I'll = all, they'll = /ðɛl/, you'll = /jl̩/, but unreduced forms of these are also possible.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:20 pm UTC

chridd wrote:For me, when stressed, he'll = hill, we'll = will (but heel and wheel are also both possible; I'm not sure when exactly I'd use either); unstressed, I think he'll is still hill, but we'll is /wl̩/. Also while = wall, I'll = all, they'll = /ðɛl/, you'll = /jl̩/, but unreduced forms of these are also possible.


I have those too. "I'll" is homophone with "all" for me, "while" is a homophone for "wall", "they'll" is pronounced as "thell", "you'll" is pronounced as "yul".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:48 pm UTC

How do you pronounce "February"? I pronounce it like "Febuary". I don't pronounce the first "r". In this correct pronunciation guide http://fanetik.tripod.com/corrpron.html not pronouncing the first "r" is listed as "illiterate".
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:51 pm UTC

I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce the first "r".
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:57 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce the first "r".


Yeah, me neither. It seems quite unnatural to me to pronounce the first "r".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby HES » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:43 pm UTC

That site is so nineteen-ninety-nine, and it's clear from the about page that the author was just being an entitled ass.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Lazar » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:51 pm UTC

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Angua » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:03 pm UTC

Mega85 wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce the first "r".


Yeah, me neither. It seems quite unnatural to me to pronounce the first "r".

Really?

I'm pretty sure I pronounce it. It's not particularly stressed, but it's definitely there.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:56 pm UTC

I definitely don't pronounce the first r any more than I pronounce the d in "Wednesday" before the n. But it doesn't seem that unusual to me to pronounce the r, just less common (whereas /'wɛdnᵻsdeɪ/ is practically unheard of).

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby ahammel » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:13 pm UTC

I have always pronounced the first r in February since I was instructed to do so by my second grade teacher.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:22 pm UTC

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/February

Dissimilation may occur when a word contains two identical or closely related sounds, resulting in the change or loss of one of them. This happens regularly in February, which is more often pronounced \ˈfe-b(y)ə-ˌwer-ē\ than \ˈfe-brə-ˌwer-ē\, though all of these variants are in frequent use and widely accepted. The \y\ heard from many speakers is not an intrusion but rather a common pronunciation of the vowel u after a consonant, as in January and annual.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Aiwendil » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:13 am UTC

I pronounce the first r in February, but I'm not sure whether I do this "natively", so to speak, or whether I learned it as the "correct" pronunciation at some point in childhood.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:32 am UTC

It's possible I've heard it without noticing it, then. But it sounds about as natural to me as pronouncing any other silent letter.

Then again, I'm aware that I'm unusual in sometimes pronouncing the "t" in "often", when stressing the word.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:52 pm UTC

How do you say "infrared"? I pronounce it as "infared".

How do you pronounce "crayon"? I pronounce it as "cray on", but I've heard people pronounce it like "cran".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:09 pm UTC

I pronounce both "r"s in "infrared".

I pronounce "crayon" the same way I pronounce "crown", but I recognise "cray-on" as a regular pronunciation (it sounds American to my ears).
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:19 pm UTC

/ɪnfrʌrɛd and /kræn/. Actually, the vowel in "crayon" is a bit more complicated than that. It's a diphthong or triphthong that sounds a bit like ay-in.

I pronounce "crayon" the same way I pronounce "crown"

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:24 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
I pronounce "crayon" the same way I pronounce "crown"

wat

I'm not sure where I picked it up from. Wiktionary gives it as a Philadelphia or New Jersey pronunciation. Given that I'm a Cockney, I'm not sure how that could have happened.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Lazar » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:12 pm UTC

It was included on Bert Vaux's American English survey. Skimming the state-level results, the disyllabic pronunciations ("cray-on" and "cray-awn") seem to be favored all over the country, with "cran" in third place, and "crown" in fourth.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

Pronouncing the first R in "February" sounds British to me. I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Mega85 wrote:How do you say "infrared"? I pronounce it as "infared".

Hell I usually spell it "infared".

How do you pronounce "crayon"? I pronounce it as "cray on", but I've heard people pronounce it like "cran".

Distinctly two syllables.


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