Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

A forum for good logic/math puzzles.

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Alex Shultz
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:24 am UTC

Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Alex Shultz » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:29 am UTC

Any ideas how to work out this puzzle? It's for a scavenger hunt so the solution should bring up coordinates...
Full description is:

"It often occurs to me that I must have somewhat of an obsessive personality.
With frequency, I find myself thinking about puzzles even when I am at work.
I subtracted an hour or two from my timesheet just yesterday as I found myself thinking up this puzzle when I should have been working.

Hopefully you will enjoy it. All the information you need is on this page.

HOOEEMAIOMOEOOSDHNAIEOCOSIOIEMILONSIILRE
LADHIESINNIEESNNOHFNNAIERHLARSCOIIRIAAON
IOONOHDSOHDIANMNNAHAESSSSENPAAHNOEEOOHSH
HHIDEOSOREFEORIHEILISAEROIANAMPEENSASAPE
REMAOONILSRHASIEMHENIRISSOEEGNNNENEIH"

Cauchy
Posts: 597
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:43 pm UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Cauchy » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:50 pm UTC

I think the obvious first step is to calculate the frequency distribution; that is, figure out how many times each letter occurs. Once you have those numbers (in order from greatest to fewest), something about subtraction? I'm too lazy to actually tabulate.
(∫|p|2)(∫|q|2) ≥ (∫|pq|)2
Thanks, skeptical scientist, for knowing symbols and giving them to me.

User avatar
Mauthe Dhoo
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:53 am UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Mauthe Dhoo » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:45 pm UTC

Google helps us take the first step by supplying to us this tool.

Which gives us:

A 19
B 0
C 2
D 5
E 29
F 2
G 1
H 17
I 26
J 0
K 0
L 6
M 7
N 23
O 27
P 3
Q 0
R 10
S 20
T 0
U 0
V 0
W 0
X 0
Y 0
Z 0

Sandor
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:25 am UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Sandor » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:24 pm UTC

The letters that are present appear to be fairly close to the normal frequencies for English. But there aren't enough different letters. The notable omissions, in decreasing order of their usual frequencies, are the letters "T", "U", "W", "Y", "B", "V", "K". Also absent are "J", "X", "Q" & "Z", but those are infrequent enough in English for that to not be surprising.

I've tried adding the missing letters back in, but I can't make it work. I think the digraph frequencies are also about right, but the top three trigraphs that don't have a "T" ("AND", "ING", and "ION") are all not present. I would have expected at least one of them.

So maybe a transposition cipher, with some letters omitted?

EDIT: The top 4 missing letters are all at the end of the alphabet. It's possible that all of "T" through to "Z" have been removed, and the missing "B" and "K" is just happenstance - an artifact of the chosen plain-text.

Alex Shultz
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:24 am UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Alex Shultz » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:47 am UTC

Hadn't tried a transposition cypher - but no luck there...

I also noted the frequency distribution and thought it odd - Still no progress here so any additional ideas would be appreciated!

Markus__1
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:42 pm UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Markus__1 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:52 pm UTC

I just want to say that you haven't yet subtracted anything.

Alex Shultz
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:24 am UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Alex Shultz » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:53 am UTC

Markus - I've been reading your post over and over and subtracting all sorts of things but getting no where... Could you give me a bigger push in the right direction?

Alex Shultz
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:24 am UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Alex Shultz » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:45 am UTC

There has been an extra hint given for the puzzle:

"Everything you need is in the description. But, equally, you need everything in the description"

Hopefully this helps one of you, because it's no help to me!! :cry: :?:

SteelCamel
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:54 pm UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby SteelCamel » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:09 pm UTC

Well, that hint restates what Markus said. You have looked the frequency with which each letter occurs - two of the clues used. But the hint makes it clear that you need all three - you need to subtract. What you need to subtract, however, I have no idea.

Markus__1
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:42 pm UTC

Re: Logic Puzzle - Scavenger Hunt

Postby Markus__1 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:44 pm UTC

Sorry, but I don't have any more insight - I just noticed that you had stopped at using only two of the clues.

Some more questions that may help your guessing:

* What do you expect as a result?
e.g. 5 places/coordinates, one per line, all in the same vicinity
** and how many digits per coordinate?

* Just to be sure: Have you stated the riddle correctly?
You have 4 lines of 40 chars, but only 38 chars in the last line (and the odd " at the end)

My first guess would have been pairwise subtraction (H-O, O-E, E-M...) to get digits, but that produces negative "digits".


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