Coffee

[Midnight]

I drink it black w sugar.

"Black as night, sweet as sin"?

I drink espresso shots like this. When it's coffee I'll usually put some half-and-half in there. I don't really like the Americano dealio. I believe it's purely psychological. When my sister gave me one she explained that it's espresso + water, and I thought "Diluting coffee with water! Gross!" I realize that's absolutely ridiculous, seeing as coffee is mostly water, but that's just... how I think.

[KallistiEngel]

I drink it black w sugar.

"Black as night, sweet as sin"?

I drink espresso shots like this. When it's coffee I'll usually put some half-and-half in there. I don't really like the Americano dealio. I believe it's purely psychological. When my sister gave me one she explained that it's espresso + water, and I thought "Diluting coffee with water! Gross!" I realize that's absolutely ridiculous, seeing as coffee is mostly water, but that's just... how I think.

I feel the same regarding whiskey & water. But Americanos have a bit more body to them than drip coffee and taste a bit richer than most of the non-gourmet coffees I've had (and I make no claims of being an expert in that area). What's psychological about it? Have you actually tried one? If not, do a side-by-side comparison if possible. There's a difference. I have drip coffee every day at home and get Americanos when I'm out. I definitely prefer Americanos, and yes, I drink everything black.

But Greek coffee is by far my favorite. It's just not practical to make it all the time.

[furyguitar]

I don't really like the Americano dealio. I believe it's purely psychological. When my sister gave me one she explained that it's espresso + water, and I thought "Diluting coffee with water! Gross!" I realize that's absolutely ridiculous, seeing as coffee is mostly water, but that's just... how I think.

That is not entirely accurate, at least according to the brainwashing I underwent as a barista for 3 years First, one of the features that gives a particularly coffee it's signature is it's oils. Of course, there are many other factors that contribute to what defines one type of bean from Colombia to, say, South Africa. However, I'm choosing to focus on oils. The manner in which you brew coffee determines how much of those oils you will get.
At one end of the spectrum, with the most oils, you have the French Press. It is the "truest" version of what the coffee tastes like. The grounds are are the most course and they just sit in water for an allotted amount of time.
Somewhere in the middle, you have your drip machines, where the grounds are finer than the press, but still somewhat coarse. If you use a metal filter, you will a little more oils than a paper filter, because the paper absorbs some of the oils. Whereas in the French Press, the grounds sat in the water soaking, in a drip machine the water just slowly filters through the grounds and drips down into a pot/carafe/whatever.
At the other end of the spectrum, with the least amount of oils, is the espresso machine. In this process, water is forced through very fine grounds rather quickly. In this method of brewing, you lose the most character of the bean.

All that to say, it really is not psychological. You can take the same beans and brew some in a drip machine and some in an espresso machine to make an americano, and they will taste very different. As part of our training, we did this - took their "Espresso" beans, if I recall, and brewed them in a French Press, the drip, and the espresso machine. Very noticeable differences. And for the scientifically minded, if you have the money to buy the proper equipment, you can try this yourself!

[Nath]

To get a given extraction level, extraction time is proportional to grind size (larger grind requires more time), and inversely proportional to pressure. All these methods can overextract or underextract the coffee, depending on how you adjust these variables (time, grind, pressure). The goal is to hit the sweet spot (extract the acids, then the sugars, but not too much of the bitter substances at the end), no matter what extraction method you use.

Of course, the end product is not identical. As you said, paper filters do absorb some of the oils. And high pressure brewing (espresso) emulsifies the oils, changing the flavor and texture of the coffee. (Perhaps the flavor change is because fewer volatile aromatics are lost, due to the increased pressure).

[TheNorm05]

I'm pretty down with coffee and I've tried many of its forms at one point or another. One variety that I really can't get used to though is Turkish coffee. I'm not sure if that is really what it's called or anything, but essentially it's a tiny tiny cup with coffee grounds half filling the cup, with hot water filling the rest.... and about a tablespoon of sugar. After drinking it I asked my boss if I could have some liquid with my coffee grounds. My current favorite, though odd, is the Coffee they served at the Chinese restaurant I worked at. It was an oddity resulting from a normal coffee variety mixed with condensed milk and Ice. Maybe I'm a chump but it has a unique flavor that I like.

[KallistiEngel]

I'm pretty down with coffee and I've tried many of its forms at one point or another. One variety that I really can't get used to though is Turkish coffee. I'm not sure if that is really what it's called or anything, but essentially it's a tiny tiny cup with coffee grounds half filling the cup, with hot water filling the rest.... and about a tablespoon of sugar. After drinking it I asked my boss if I could have some liquid with my coffee grounds. My current favorite, though odd, is the Coffee they served at the Chinese restaurant I worked at. It was an oddity resulting from a normal coffee variety mixed with condensed milk and Ice. Maybe I'm a chump but it has a unique flavor that I like.

The Turks call it Turkish coffee, the Greeks call it Greek coffee. But yeah, I actually like that more than American coffee and only just had it recently for the first time (on a 1-month trip to Greece). I don't drink it with sugar though, ruins the flavor for me. You have to have it made correctly though, I've had good cups and I've had bad cups, the worst of which came from a Starbucks in Athens (the only place I could find wifi). Really, you're supposed to wait for the grounds to settle and you should leave a drop or two in the cup so you don't get grounds in your mouth. If you don't like that it's a tiny amount, maybe you should stick to regular coffee, and I could say the same for espresso. Those tiny cups are what are known as demitasse cups by the way. Everyone likes their coffee different. My favorite is Greek, a close friend's is lattes, my mom's is brewed coffee, and yet another friend's is espresso. I do recommend trying it to everyone though because it's very different from any other kind of coffee, and if you don't like it, hey, at least you know.

That coffee you describe at the end sounds similar to Thai iced coffee, except they use coconut milk. I do like the Thai iced coffee I've tried, but it's not something I'd be able to drink all the time.

[TheNorm05]

I'm pretty down with coffee and I've tried many of its forms at one point or another. One variety that I really can't get used to though is Turkish coffee. I'm not sure if that is really what it's called or anything, but essentially it's a tiny tiny cup with coffee grounds half filling the cup, with hot water filling the rest.... and about a tablespoon of sugar. After drinking it I asked my boss if I could have some liquid with my coffee grounds. My current favorite, though odd, is the Coffee they served at the Chinese restaurant I worked at. It was an oddity resulting from a normal coffee variety mixed with condensed milk and Ice. Maybe I'm a chump but it has a unique flavor that I like.

The Turks call it Turkish coffee, the Greeks call it Greek coffee. But yeah, I actually like that more than American coffee and only just had it recently for the first time (on a 1-month trip to Greece). I don't drink it with sugar though, ruins the flavor for me. You have to have it made correctly though, I've had good cups and I've had bad cups, the worst of which came from a Starbucks in Athens (the only place I could find wifi). Really, you're supposed to wait for the grounds to settle and you should leave a drop or two in the cup so you don't get grounds in your mouth. If you don't like that it's a tiny amount, maybe you should stick to regular coffee, and I could say the same for espresso. Those tiny cups are what are known as demitasse cups by the way. Everyone likes their coffee different. My favorite is Greek, a close friend's is lattes, my mom's is brewed coffee, and yet another friend's is espresso. I do recommend trying it to everyone though because it's very different from any other kind of coffee, and if you don't like it, hey, at least you know.

That coffee you describe at the end sounds similar to Thai iced coffee, except they use coconut milk. I do like the Thai iced coffee I've tried, but it's not something I'd be able to drink all the time.

Well that makes sense. The place I was working at that served the coffee wasn't really much of a coffee place, so I guess it'd be unfair to pass a thorough judgement on it just yet. I guess it'd be something I'll get to try when I start touring. I hear Turkey has the best tomatoes(my favorite food), so I'm just waiting for an excuse to go(and money =P). I'll keep world coffee in mind during my travels.

[Nath]

That coffee you describe at the end sounds similar to Thai iced coffee, except they use coconut milk. I do like the Thai iced coffee I've tried, but it's not something I'd be able to drink all the time.

What? All the Thai iced coffee I've had was made with condensed milk. Basically the same as Vietnamese coffee. There's also a coffee-and-other-stuff blend called Oliang, but I don't believe that usually contains coconut milk either.

[KallistiEngel]

That coffee you describe at the end sounds similar to Thai iced coffee, except they use coconut milk. I do like the Thai iced coffee I've tried, but it's not something I'd be able to drink all the time.

What? All the Thai iced coffee I've had was made with condensed milk. Basically the same as Vietnamese coffee. There's also a coffee-and-other-stuff blend called Oliang, but I don't believe that usually contains coconut milk either.

At least I'd assumed it was coconut milk. I could very well be wrong.

[dubsola]

I hear Turkey has the best tomatoes(my favorite food), so I'm just waiting for an excuse to go(and money =P). I'll keep world coffee in mind during my travels.

I'd say the Italians have better tomatoes, and "better" coffee. By better coffee, I mean that I like Turkish coffee but prefer Italian.

Obviously when it comes to any fresh ingredient like tomatoes, it depends where you shop / eat, but I'd stand by that statement.

[Dason]

I usually grind my own coffee beans in the morning to make a cup. Today I didn't have time to go through that routine. I got to campus and somebody offered me some instant coffee... I've never tried instant before so I gave it a try.

How can people live like that?

[masakatsu]

It is by caffeine alone I put my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I put my mind in motion.

I use a custom blend from Abbis called General Lee. I use a medium-find ground with filtered water into a steel caraff. One tablespoon per two cups of water in a gold covered perminate coffee filter. If you like strong coffee, order some of Abbis' Scorned Woman... it is bitter.

[KallistiEngel]

I usually grind my own coffee beans in the morning to make a cup. Today I didn't have time to go through that routine. I got to campus and somebody offered me some instant coffee... I've never tried instant before so I gave it a try.

How can people live like that?

Instant coffee is the devil's brew. Worse even in my mind than decaf.

But it's popular in a lot of countries around the world. My brother went to Peru and I went to Greece this summer. They even served NesCafe at actual cafes and tavernas in Greece. Funny thing is that it was like 2.50 Euros for a cup of NesCafe and usually 1.50-2.00 Euros for a cup of Greek coffee which is 1000 times better. And my brother said that a cheaper brand of instant coffee was ever-present in Peru.

[Nath]

Instant coffee isn't equally bad everywhere in the world; US instant is worse than most. Even the best (ha) instant coffees I've tried were pretty uninteresting, but they were at least recognizable as coffee. That's more than I can say for some drip coffee I've had. (Though I'll take pre-ground supermarket-brand drip over 'good' instant.)

A couple of days ago, I tried Vietnamese coffee without condensed milk or sugar. I now know why they add so much condensed milk and sugar.

[PhoenixEnigma]

I'm wondering if some people here can shed a little light on the blade vs burr grinder issue.

My understanding is that burr grinding is generally better, and can produce better coffee, because it grinds to a more consistent size. Makes sense to me. On the other hand, fresh round coffee is also better than the alternative. Since I can either have the place I buy my coffee from grind it for me in a nice burr grinder, or just buy the beans and do it at home in my cheap blade one for the same price, is there any general consensus on which is better?

For what it's worth, it'd be stored in moderately ok conditions - sealed and in the dark, at least - and I typically use an AeroPress to brew my coffee.

[Nath]

Depends on how quickly you'll use up the coffee, and what brewing method you use. If you're going to buy small quantities and use them up quickly, then having them grind the beans might make sense, depending on your brewing method. I brew with a manual drip cone, so an uneven grind isn't a disaster; I go the cheap blade grinder route. An uneven grind may make French press coffee gritty, and won't really work with espresso.

[poxic]

Has anyone tried the Starbucks instant? I'm afraid to, whether it's the $1/cup or the, y'know, instantness.

[iChef]

I too fell in love with Viet-coffee. I could never figure out why. One day I asked the nice lady at the pho shop to get me some of her coffee and one of those little metal strainers. She sent me to a local Asian food shop with a note (thank God, the shop keeper didn't speak English and let's just say as a mid-western white boy my Vietnamese isn't up to snuff). The gentleman came to the counter with my cool new coffee strainer and low and behold the amazing "Vietnamese" coffee I love was Cafe Du Monde chicory coffee from New Orleans. The same stuff i grew up drinking at my grandma's house in North Carolina. When I asked the lady at the pho shop she showed me her stash of it, it's the same stuff she serves at the shop and I guess they import it to Vietnam as well.

[semicharmed]

I too fell in love with Viet-coffee. I could never figure out why. One day I asked the nice lady at the pho shop to get me some of her coffee and one of those little metal strainers. She sent me to a local Asian food shop with a note (thank God, the shop keeper didn't speak English and let's just say as a mid-western white boy my Vietnamese isn't up to snuff). The gentleman came to the counter with my cool new coffee strainer and low and behold the amazing "Vietnamese" coffee I love was Cafe Du Monde chicory coffee from New Orleans. The same stuff i grew up drinking at my grandma's house in North Carolina. When I asked the lady at the pho shop she showed me her stash of it, it's the same stuff she serves at the shop and I guess they import it to Vietnam as well.

Cafe du Monde probably doesn't import to Vietnam, but there's a really, really large Vietnamese community in Southern Louisiana, dating back to the first wave of refuges from Vietnam in the late 60s/early 70s. Southern Louisiana is hot, swampy, Catholic and heavily French-influenced, and many of the Vietnamese immigrants became fishermen and shrimpers.

So I'd imagine that using Cafe du Monde to make Vietnamese coffee probably originated then, and then spread to other areas of the country. It would be interesting to ask either the shop keeper or the woman who works at the pho place to see if they/their families are from Louisiana.

[Nath]

Chicory is a popular coffee substitute/additive in many places, presumably including Vietnam. I assumed Vietnamese places in the US use Cafe du Monde because it's the most easily accessible chicory coffee.

[voidPtr]

That coffee you describe at the end sounds similar to Thai iced coffee, except they use coconut milk. I do like the Thai iced coffee I've tried, but it's not something I'd be able to drink all the time.

What? All the Thai iced coffee I've had was made with condensed milk. Basically the same as Vietnamese coffee. There's also a coffee-and-other-stuff blend called Oliang, but I don't believe that usually contains coconut milk either.

I think the confusion is thai iced tea..which at least in modern convenience stores like 7-11 and such in Thailand, is usually normal green or red tea sweetened with coconut milk and sugar.

For my money, I know in Vietnam they mostly use low-grade (Robusto) coffee beans and sweetened condensed milk, but I think it is soo good and I have always meant to try to replicate it at home but haven't yet. It's also really, really cheap (in Vietnam), and abundant.

[Jorpho]

[I thought about making a separate thread for this, but might as well keep the clutter down.]

I've had a French Press for ages now, but I've been a little too intimidated to figure out how to use it properly, especially as I hear they are difficult to clean. Is it really much of an inconvenience?

Also I am indeed very fond of Thai iced coffee. Naturally it failed to live up to my expectations when I finally found it again, having sampled it long ago. There are recipes to approximate it using cinnamon and cardamom.

[J the Ninja]

I've had a French Press for ages now, but I've been a little too intimidated to figure out how to use it properly, especially as I hear they are difficult to clean. Is it really much of an inconvenience?

French press? Difficult to clean? You're talking about these things, right? They're very simple both to use and to clean. Hell, I've recommended them to people over drip coffeemakers for being less work to clean. Many can even be put in the dishwasher! If you want to do it by hand, fill the pot with some warm soapy water, but the plunger on, pump it vigorously a few times like you are frothing milk, then wipe the plunger and pot down with a sponge. Rinse and air dry.

To use it:

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1. Start with coarse ground coffee!!!! If you must use a blade grinder, just tap it a few times, don't actually hold the switch down.

2. Heat water. Take it off and pour it in the second it begins to make a noise. And I do mean the very second it starts making any boiling noise.

3. Set a timer for 4mins.

4. At 1 minute, stir gently and then put the lid on.

5. At 4 minutes, press gently then pour into your mug/carafe. Any coffee left in the press will be ruined after another 60-90 seconds or so, so have a carafe ready for the leftovers if you are making extra.

[dubsola]

Yes, they are very easy to use and clean.

[Dason]

And they make some dang good coffee.

[Jorpho]

Huh. I am Suitably Impressed.

I think the "difficult to clean" attribute is derived from cleaning the grounds out of the bottom of the press. I'd be a bit concerned about all those grounds mucking up the plumbing somehow, but I guess that's not something people worry about. (I'd also feel bad about not composting them if there was a composting program in place in my apartment building.)

[dubsola]

Compost doesn't like too much coffee, so don't worry. When I used a French press I'd throw most of the grinds out and then rinse the rest down the drain.

[Jorpho]

Compost doesn't like too much coffee, so don't worry.

Really? How so?

[Nath]

If the concern is acidity, from what I've read, most of the acid goes into the brewed coffee, leaving the grounds quite neutral.

French presses are pretty great. If it weren't for the LDL issue, that's probably how I'd brew coffee. The only easier-to-clean coffee apparatus is the Melitta-style manual drip.

[Midnight]

If the concern is acidity, from what I've read, most of the acid goes into the brewed coffee, leaving the grounds quite neutral.

French presses are pretty great. If it weren't for the LDL issue, that's probably how I'd brew coffee. The only easier-to-clean coffee apparatus is the Melitta-style manual drip.

LDL issue? Like LDL cholesterol? I doubt that coffee does much for that (googling says it raised HDH/the good kind) and I doubt preparation matters.
I been using a french press every day this past week. Works great. Coarse grind, 4 or 5 minutes... maybe that's too long, I dunno. Tastes good. Better'n drip, to me.

[Nath]

Yep, unfiltered coffee (French press etc.) is rich in cafestol and kahweol, which are known to raise LDL quite significantly. Paper filters do not let these substances through. There's been a lot of work backing this up -- you can probably find more studies if you're not convinced.

Unfortunately, filters also block some of the flavorful oils, which is why unfiltered coffee tends to be oilier and slightly more flavorful than filtered coffee.

Of course, you could always brew with a French press and then filter it with a manual drip cone, but that's more washing up to do for basically no gain in flavor.

[Midnight]

WORTH IT.

[Nath]

Probably, at least for the occasional espresso. But for day-to-day brewed coffee, I find the difference small enough that I stick with the manual drip.

[Jorpho]

Part of my reason for wanting to try the French Press (aside from the fact that I've been hanging on to it for about four years now without ever using it) is that I've now busted two four-cup glass carafes. Last time I looked into getting a replacement from Wal-Mart, it was still fifteen bucks or so.

Don't they make steel carafes? Can you suggest a good source for them? (I was hoping DealExtreme.com would have them, but alas, not so.)

[Ended]

I'd be a bit concerned about all those grounds mucking up the plumbing somehow, but I guess that's not something people worry about.

I've always heard that pouring them down the sink is a bad idea. I tend to scoop the bulk of the grounds into the bin using a spoon, and rinse the rest.

[Bakemaster]

Yep, unfiltered coffee (French press etc.) is rich in cafestol and kahweol, which are known to raise LDL quite significantly. Paper filters do not let these substances through. There's been a lot of work backing this up -- you can probably find more studies if you're not convinced.

Unfortunately, filters also block some of the flavorful oils, which is why unfiltered coffee tends to be oilier and slightly more flavorful than filtered coffee.

Of course, you could always brew with a French press and then filter it with a manual drip cone, but that's more washing up to do for basically no gain in flavor.

I remember telling someone who used a French press about that issue with unfiltered coffee, and they claimed their French press had a filter built in. I don't remember who it was, but it wasn't someone I distrusted by default, and I never bothered to look into their claim (as I don't drink coffee).

[J the Ninja]

I'd be a bit concerned about all those grounds mucking up the plumbing somehow, but I guess that's not something people worry about.

I've always heard that pouring them down the sink is a bad idea. I tend to scoop the bulk of the grounds into the bin using a spoon, and rinse the rest.

That's my usual cleanup routine too. You should stir the grounds once as they are steeping, plus I use a spoon to measure out of the bag. So I just use the same spoon for all that. Scoop the grinds into the trash, tap the plunger on the side of a the can a few times, then rinse it all off and wash it.

[Nath]

I remember telling someone who used a French press about that issue with unfiltered coffee, and they claimed their French press had a filter built in. I don't remember who it was, but it wasn't someone I distrusted by default, and I never bothered to look into their claim (as I don't drink coffee).

The material of the filter also matters. From what I've read, paper filters get most of the nasty diterpenes out, but metal filters don't. So unless their French press has a place to attach a paper filter, it probably doesn't make much difference, except perhaps to make the coffee a little less gritty.

[PhoenixEnigma]

I'd be a bit concerned about all those grounds mucking up the plumbing somehow, but I guess that's not something people worry about.

I've always heard that pouring them down the sink is a bad idea. I tend to scoop the bulk of the grounds into the bin using a spoon, and rinse the rest.

Eventually, grounds down the sink can be a bad thing. A couple sinks where I work have been borked because of that - they accumulate in the trap, and eventually clog it.

[Arariel]

Caffeine is my shepherd; I shall not doze.
It maketh me to wake in green pastures:
It leadeth me beyond the sleeping masses.
It restoreth my buzz:
It leadeth me in the paths of consciousness for its name's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of addiction,
I will fear no Equal™:
For thou art with me; thy cream and thy sugar they comfort me.
Thou preparest a carafe before me in the presence of The Starbucks:
Thou anointest my day with pep; my mug runneth over.
Surely richness and taste shall follow me all the days of my life:
And I will dwell in the House of Mochas forever.

I drank a cappuccino Blizzard they serve at DQ the other day. It was a very sugary bout of agony I could only finish half of.