The CGNU Dumples Thread

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The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:18 am UTC

Who likes dumplings? All kinds of dumplings! When I was younger I loved peking ravioli, which Wikipedia tells me is a specifically Bostonian name for Jiaozi/potstikkers. So that's interesting. And I do love matzo balls to death.

BUT! My absolute favorite has got to be Momos. One of my friends from highschool (and currently roommate) is from Nepal and he and his family introduced me to the wonder that is a night full of Momos. Steamed in stacking metal steamer pans, eaten as they come out, making them pretty much all night—there were 300 last time but I wasn't in top form so I only had about 30. I can't compete with my friend, though. He claims his record is around 75.

I need to get this girl's recipe for the sauce she makes to go with them, or pay very close attention next time she makes it. If I get something useful I will post it.

The actual recipe they follow is fairly approximate. Ground meat, either chicken, turkey or pork, is mixed with garlic, ginger, yellow onion, green onion, tomato and spices. Everything's pretty much minced or finely chopped. I keep trying to figure out the spices but they only know the nepali names of them; I recognize cumin and turmeric and I'm working on the rest. Oh and also a stick or two of melted butter, which sounds and looks sort of gross, but I have long since stopped caring.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Zak » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:20 am UTC

Yeah dumplings are pretty win...



Hey! im starting to salivate!
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Moo » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:51 am UTC

Must investigate these dumplings of which you speak... (had a bad experience the first time I tried Chinese dumplings, never gone there again, but I will and I will report back!)
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Zohar » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:19 am UTC

I love dumplings! But I'm vegetarian... What kind of dough do you use for them? I've had a dumpling recipe hung on my fridge for a few months and I need to get on with it (that and sushi night).
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:12 pm UTC

Dumplings (jaozi) have been my favorite food since I developed the ability to chew. AH LOVES 'EM. My family makes them several times a year in huge batches - have one night of gorging on fresh-made dumplings, then freeze the rest for later gorging.

Also, jaozi and potstickers (guotie) are different. Jaozi are boiled or sometimes steamed, guotie are larger and fried.
Tang bao is a strange sort of awesome. It's like a tiny steamed cross between bao and jaozi...with soup inside. You have to nibble a bit, suck the soup out so it doesn't spill scalding hot broth all over your lap, then eat the rest.
Shrimp dumplings are divine.

Moo - dunno the specifics of your experience, but a lot of restaurant jaozi are crap. I have yet to meet a Chinese buffet with halfway decent jaozi. The one time I had a good experience was when my cousin was deriding the food a little too loudly...and the boss himself handmade a little tray of shrimp dumplings and gave it to us, free. It was the difference between the restaurant owner who knows how to make dumplings right but doesn't actually do the cooking anymore vs. the Mexicans that he hired overcooking or undercooking mass-produced frozen dumplings from a bag and leaving them out under the buffet lights for too long.

Zohar - dumplings don't have to have meat. You can put whatever you want...the point is, it's dough wrapped around whatever the cook feels like.
For dough I use a 3:1 proportion of flour to water, kneaded plenty and then left in the refrigerator with a wet cloth over it for a few hours. You can use premade wrappers, but those can be tough, dry, and just bad to eat.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Moo » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:50 pm UTC

Ooh, ooh, Podbaydoor, don't be like that, give me half a recipe after telling me how good they are!

So, 3:1 proportion of flour to water, kneaded plenty and then left in the refrigerator, then what? Fold around minced up filling of choice like for ravioli? Then what, boil? I am laying my total ignorance on the table for all to see. Here it is!
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Will » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:46 pm UTC

YES! Gyoza (Japanese name for Jiaozi) was one of my favorite foods in Japan, I could devour them by the dozen. The Japanese ones are usually the fried variety, though sometimes they're steamed. I've been meaning to make some since I got back (A year and a half ago x.x) but I've been lazy. Some asian restaurants make excellent gyoza here too, but these are not the cheap restaurants I can eat at very often.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Fat Tony » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:57 am UTC

I wonder what the Dumple is.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:21 am UTC

Zohar wrote:What kind of dough do you use for them?

For Momos, round flour dumpling wrappers that we get in packs of 50 at the local asian market. They are thinner than wonton wrappers and gyoza wrappers and aren't great for frying, but they steam well. A bit of water dabbed around the edge with your fingertips works to seal them.
podbaydoor wrote:Also, jaozi and potstickers (guotie) are different. Jaozi are boiled or sometimes steamed, guotie are larger and fried.

I don't know these things; I was following the wikipedia article.

One ingredient I forgot in my summary, but which is very important for Momos, is cilantro. Both the filling and the sauce have chopped or minced cilantro as one of the main spices.

Next time we have a night of Momos I'll make sure it's at my house and I document it extensively.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby podbaydoor » Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:31 pm UTC

Moo wrote:Ooh, ooh, Podbaydoor, don't be like that, give me half a recipe after telling me how good they are!

So, 3:1 proportion of flour to water, kneaded plenty and then left in the refrigerator, then what? Fold around minced up filling of choice like for ravioli? Then what, boil? I am laying my total ignorance on the table for all to see. Here it is!

You pretty much summed it up. :D The only specialized trick is folding the wrappers correctly into a dumpling shape - took me years to perfect. I guess the whole process has been perfected through practice but dumplings taste pretty good even if you don't get everything right.
If you like, here's the step-by-step process my family uses when we have a big dumpling-making session. You pretty much have to set a day, or at least half a day, aside for it.

Sometime before noon, I make the dough. 3:1 proportion - usually we do 15 cups water to 5 cups flour, but this makes hundreds of dumplings. When I was in college, I used 9:3, but this was still too many. Next time I'm trying 6:2.
Measure out the flour and dump it all into a big bowl. Measure out the water and dump it into the same bowl. Stir with spoon until it's sort of congealed into something kneadable. Knead. What I do is mush it around into a large ball, wiping up stray flour and dough bits along the way. Once it's in a ball, I start a fold in half, punch down, fold in half, punch down process. Add some flour if the dough is too sticky (it feels slimy), add more water if it's too dry (the flour in the bowl is not congealing). Knead until most of the flour is all in the dough ball.
Cover with a wet cloth. Leave in refrigerator.

A bit before we start wrapping, I make the filling. We use ground meat + shredded cabbage, carrots, cucumber, whatever. Sometimes tiny shrimp. Four pounds ground meat was too much in college - next time I'm trying two pounds.
Put the ground meat in a large bowl. Mix with salt, whatever spices you wish, corn starch to take out some of the water. With a food processor, grind up vegetables into fine particles and mix into the meat until you feel you have a good proportion.

Take the dough out of the refrigerator. It will be significantly wetter and stickier, so make sure you spread plenty of flour on your work surface. Pull off a good sized chunk and lengthen into a long rope - helps if your hands are well floured. Chop the rope into little chunks. Flatten the chunks into about quarter-sized pieces (on a floured surface so they don't stick and accidentally lose their circular shape). Roll out into flat circular wrapper shape - I can't emphasize the importance of flour enough. Start by rolling out a small section of the edge dough piece, then rotate it a bit, roll out the next small section, rotate, roll, so you maintain the circular shape.

Wrapping the dumplings is really hard to describe, so I'm going to copy from the Internets. It's best to find someone who knows how to do it and imitate them.

* Set a small bowl or dish of water aside.
* put a wrapper in one hand. with the other, use chopsticks or a spoon to place a blob of dumpling mix in the centre of the wrap. Said blob should be about the size of a US quarter in diameter, maybe a little bigger. Until you get the hang of this, though, start small.
* dip your finger(s) into the water dish, and dampen the outside edges of the wrap that surround the mixture.
* Gently fold one side of the wrap overtop, forming a half moon-shape... it will, perhaps, resemble a taco to you, as well. Gently squeeze the top of the "arch" together. This leaves you with two open "loops" on either side.
* Poke the edge in, of one of the loops, thus making two smaller ones in the process. Squeeze the bottom loop tight. Repeat the "tuck and fold" step on the top loop; Seal all folds against the body of the dumpling, in the direction of the bottom loop.
* Repeat this process on the other side. When you have completed this, squeeze all the sealed edges, to assure that there are no holes anywhere along the seal.
* Place dumpling on a large tray (pizza pan, etc.) that is covered in plastic wrap or lightly floured.
* Repeat the above process until you have run out of dumpling mix and/or wrappers. Each time you complete a dumpling, assure that any two dumplings do not touch, as they may stick together, which in turn means they will likely break when cooking.

Here is an excellent, excellent video demonstrating rolling and wrapping.

After that, start a pot of water boiling. Dump some dumplings in and cook until they've floated up to the surface and you can see that the wrapper has separated from the filling. Stir frequently to keep them from sticking. Scoop out and eat with soy sauce, vinegar, and sesame oil. There's several recipes online for other dipping sauces involving ginger and such.

If you're any good with frying, you can try to fry some of your dumplings...I've never tried, myself, so I don't have a procedure for it.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Moo » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:59 pm UTC

That's bril, thanks! I happen to have two and a half heads of cabbage that I am out of ideas how to use, so dumplings here we come!
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby zingmaster » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:08 am UTC

Yay, CGNU dumples! Almost better than my awesome Asian dumples!
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:38 am UTC

I had momos at a Tibetan place today with some forum people and was disappointed. The wrappers were more doughy and the filling less flavorful than the homemade ones I am in love with. They were much more similar to the standard peking ravioli that I used to get all the time with Chinese take-out. And the sauce was lame, barely more than a tomato salsa. There's nothing for it, I have to get that recipe!
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Kawa » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:45 pm UTC

I can live off of pork jiaozi or xiaolongbao. I seriously LOVE dumplings. I like my jiaozi steamed or fried, depending on my mood.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:54 am UTC

Okay! We combined momos with cake night on Sunday and I paid very close attention to the filling preparation the night before. Here's an approximate recipe. We used 12 pounds of meat for 500 wrappers and had some filling left over, so I'm reducing this in my head; plus I was in a hurry and Navin eyeballs all the measurements so it was hard to keep track.

Combine:
1 lb ground pork
1 lb ground chicken
3 cups minced plum tomato (yes, I do mean minced)
2 cups finely chopped yellow onion
1 cup finely chopped green onion
1 cup chopped cilantro
1/4 cup melted butter
1/4 cup minced ginger
1/4 cup minced garlic

Season and let sit, preferably overnight, with:
cumin, timur pepper, cayenne pepper, salt, turmeric
I'm afraid I can't give you measurements for the spice, but they run in approximately that order. According to Navin, Timur pepper is not the same as Szechuan pepper and you can't get it in a decent quality outside of Nepal. I am skeptical. In any case, if you don't grind the spices yourself and let the mixture sit overnight you won't get the amazing results that we got, even if my approximate numbers turn out to be perfect.

This should make enough filling for around 100 wrappers, depending on how much you stuff them and what kind of wrappers you use. Love 'em up!
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby une see » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:17 am UTC

Mmmm...I do love dumplings.

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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:38 pm UTC

Just finished making tsubishi-an in preparation for dousha bao, sweet red bean buns!

Unfortunately I think I didn't bring along my bamboo steamer baskets when I moved to the West Coast so I'll probably be using one of those round collapsible metal baskets. It'll be slower but with parchment it should still work fine... I promise pictures.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby justaman » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:38 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:Just finished making tsubishi-an in preparation for dousha bao, sweet red bean buns!

Unfortunately I think I didn't bring along my bamboo steamer baskets when I moved to the West Coast so I'll probably be using one of those round collapsible metal baskets. It'll be slower but with parchment it should still work fine... I promise pictures.

I make Dousha bao too. Steaming works fine on a plate in a big pot or in a blanching colander inside a stock pot.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby podbaydoor » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:13 am UTC

Ahhh, dousha bao! Love them so much, I could eat those for breakfast all day. :P

Last weekend my sister and I made some kind of freak bastardized version of dousha bao. We used American pastry dough and wrapped them around the red bean paste, pierogie style. Basically dousha empanadas. Then we brushed them with egg yolk and baked them. Delish.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby pooteeweet » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:57 pm UTC


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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby PAstrychef » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:42 pm UTC

spicy pork-leek-mushroom gyoza. Why is it impossible to make just enough filling? I always end up with enough for an extra batch that I freeze, only to find it years later hidden in the back of the bin.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby podbaydoor » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:22 am UTC

I've been making dumplings since I was a wee thing, and I still usually don't match the filling and the wrapping up perfectly. Which is okay, because extra filling just goes into the stir fry for the next day, and extra dough can be made into noodles for the next day.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby meatyochre » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:24 am UTC

YES DUMPLINGS SNARFSNARF

I like every conceivable kind of dumpringdumpling. Fried potstickers are my favorite. But shrimp dumpling soup is also my favorite. And would pierogis be considered a type of dumpling? Because they're my favorite, too.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby semicharmed » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:18 am UTC

Vareneky! Вареники! Next time I make them, I'll try to remember to write out basic proportions (since even the hint that a recipe would exist for them shocks every single person I've asked about it) but it's basic dough, stuffed with all manner of delicious things.
You can make basic potato + onion filling, or slightly sweetened cheese, it can be (homemade) preserved fruits. Just a simple flour + salt + kefir dough, and then steamed/fried/boiled depending on the filling and their preferences. And no matter the filling, served with a big spoonful or three of sour cream.
And my kitchen cabinets have a board build in specifically for the making of such deliciousness. It's just a shame it's an awful lot of work to feed just myself, and I can't make the nearly good enough yet to bring to the neighbours.

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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby pooteeweet » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:14 am UTC

Calzones are kind of like enormous dumplings. Once I tried making something like mini-calzones by stuffing bun-dough with olives and cheese and stuff, but once baked it turns into mostly bread. I often wonder how I could fix this.

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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby PAstrychef » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:54 pm UTC

Simple solution-use less dough. It can be rolled pretty thin if the stuffing isn't wet.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby semicharmed » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:53 am UTC

Made varenky dough last night. As promised, a recipe follows:

Dough:
1 litre soured milk*
2 litres flour**
salt to taste

The important thing here is that there's twice as much flour as liquid, with more flour being added until the dough is smooth. And elastic, and not too sticky. After the dough is made, you can either roll it out to ~1/2cm and cut out 8-10cm circles (I use the top of a mug) or you can let it rest in the fridge overnight. Either way, onto the filling(s)

Potato & onion filling:
Fry some onions in a little bit of oil, let carmalize. Boil and mash potatoes, stirring in a little butter/milk/sour cream until they're nice and smooth, stirring in the onions.

Savory cheese:
Domashny syr, mixed with a little sour cream*** until it's spreadable, and onions if you choose. Domashny syr is translated as literally "home cheese", but farmer's cheese, paneer from an Indian grocery or a dry cottage cheese will also work.

Sweet cheese:
Domashy syr, made spreadable with sour cream, and then with a lot of sugar added.

Sweet cheese & fruit:
The above, but also mixed with fruit preserves. Cherry are especially good, as are apricots/peaces, and apples.

Making the varenky:
Once the circles are cut out of the dough, fill each with a spoonful of desired filling. Fold the dough in half, crimping the edges to seal them. If you press the edges thin enough, you can crimp them with a thumbnail to make them both pretty and extra secure. I can't quite do this yet, but I try. Then the dumplings can be either steamer or boiled, depending on your preference.
Boil until they float, or steam until the outside isn't sticky. If the filling is savory, after they come out of the water/steamer, toss them in a bowl with some oil, chopped fried onions, and some salo****

*So soured milk is fresh (unpasteurized) milk that's between 4-6 days old. It starts to sour, and smell, but not in the same way pasteurized milk goes bad. It basically turned into kefir a day or two before it turns into sour cream. Kefir from a bottle will also work, and possibly sour cream thinned out to a cream/buttermilk consistency. Actually, low-fat buttermilk might also work. I've never made this at home (the States), only in Ukraine, where milk is bought fresh from the cow.
**I know it's weird to measure flour in litres and not grams, but my flour's stored in a 3L jar, which was 2/3s full, and my milk in a repurposed 1.5L water bottle, which was also 2/3s full.
***Noticing a trend? Ukrainians looooove sour cream.
****Or bacon. Salo is basically pork fat, maybe spiced a little, which can be cut into strips and fried. It's good, if you're the kind of person who likes their bacon fatty and the fat all melty.

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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Thesh » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:23 pm UTC

semicharmed wrote:Made varenky dough last night. As promised, a recipe follows:


Sounds a lot like the pierogi I have made in the past. The dough I made was flour, egg, sour cream, some water and salt. I stuffed them with a potato and onion filling that is very close to yours, except without caramelizing the onions. I cooked them by boiling them, but I also browned them in a pan with butter afterward and topped them with caramelized onions and sour cream.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby semicharmed » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:18 am UTC

Thesh wrote:
semicharmed wrote:Made varenky dough last night. As promised, a recipe follows:


Sounds a lot like the pierogi I have made in the past. The dough I made was flour, egg, sour cream, some water and salt. I stuffed them with a potato and onion filling that is very close to yours, except without caramelizing the onions. I cooked them by boiling them, but I also browned them in a pan with butter afterward and topped them with caramelized onions and sour cream.


Yeah, they're pretty similar - varenky are Ukrainian and pierogi are Polish, so they exist on the continuum of "delicious Eastern European dumplings".
But pierogi in Ukraine (or pierohi, depending on where you are, the Gs become Hs) are totally different - more like biscuit or bread dough, stuffed, and then baked in an oven.

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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Telchar » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:14 pm UTC

Made some dumplings inspired by Mr Bakerstiens recipe above. Used ancho chilli powder and ground mustard. I also chopped cabbage to give a bit of crunch to the mixture.

I cooked them by heating up a tiny bit of peanut oil and browning them for 1-2 minutes and then pouring about 1/8 inch of water into the pan after the oil had been absorbed and steaming them for another 3-4 minutes. Made a dipping sauce of soy sauce, rice vinegar, and garlic chili sauce.

Overall I thought the mix was too busy. I don't have a lot of experience with more authentic east asian/indian food but it felt almost too rich? Not fatty rich but...It was difficult to describe. It could also be me messing it up. It probably is me messing it up.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:42 am UTC

All the way from the fourth page, DUMPRINGS TIME HAS COME ONCE AGAIN!

I just put a bowl of filling similar to the recipe I described above, but minus the pork and plus some shiitake and bok choy. Also I have no Szechuan pepper, but hey! It was a last minute decision, and my spice rack isn't up to snuff at the moment. (Or even installed in the cabinet.)

Not having planned for ground meats, I found myself cleaning, cutting up, and blending a 2-3 lb package of chicken thighs. UGH. So tedious and messy. Do not recommend - though I've discovered by this means that the 1100-watt Ninja blender is quite good at grinding poultry, despite how mediocre it is as a food processor.

Tomorrow, I buy proper bulk steaming equipment and more wrappers. And then we dance.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Angua » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:22 pm UTC

I was just thinking about dumplings, though reading through the thread I have a much different idea to dumplings - they are just fluffy balls of goodness that you cook on top of a stew for me - not wrapped around anything.

Does that have a different name in the US?
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Mikeski » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:07 pm UTC

Angua wrote:I was just thinking about dumplings, though reading through the thread I have a much different idea to dumplings - they are just fluffy balls of goodness that you cook on top of a stew for me - not wrapped around anything.

Does that have a different name in the US?

Not in my part of it, no. Those are "dumplings", too.

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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Bakemaster » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:11 pm UTC

All are dumplings, all are delicious. The Wikipedia article for dumpling is great. Lots of tasty pictures.

I grew up on matzo ball soup which is more the kind of dumpling you're thinking of.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Tomlidich the second » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:33 pm UTC

never made dumplings.

good beginners recipe? also open to twerking things a bit, so adaptability is a plus.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby PAstrychef » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:20 am UTC

There are two types of dumplings:
The poached dough variety-the matzoh ball is a perfect example
The stuff wrapped in dough variety-the pot sticker and the pierogi fall into this category.
Which would you like to make?
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Tomlidich the second » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:14 pm UTC

stuff wrapped in dough certainly sounds delicious.

what have we got there? potstickers sounds deligthful, if not a bit challenging.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby PAstrychef » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:32 pm UTC

You can buy the wrappers at the grocery store. Here is a link to a recipe for the filling. They are a bit time consuming, but freeze really well. Don't add too much filling or they don't seal well, and explode when cooked.
You can boil, steam or pan fry these dumplings as you desire.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Tomlidich the second » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:24 pm UTC

PAstrychef wrote: and explode when cooked.

the 12 year old boy in me giggled with glee upon reading this, until realizing they don't ACTUALLY explode.


i shall give it my best shot, and post results! (after an obligatory grocery store trip)

its an alton brown recipe! i love that guy.
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Re: The CGNU Dumples Thread

Postby Tomlidich the second » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:10 pm UTC

ingredients bought: food porn incoming, t- 6 or so hours.

this should be amazing
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