xkcd

Last.fm · by **korora** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:53 pm UTC

I was out last weekend and had a Hobgoblin Dark English Ale... holy shit that stuff is good. Anybody know if it shows up in stores anywhere (I'm in St. Louis) or if there's something similar I can drink regularly? I enjoy beers on the dark/bitter end, will drink lighter beers if that's what's there. I have a couple friends who homebrew, so I can't quote a ton of brews, but I like things along the lines of Irish Reds and ESB.

The same bar also had a Delirium on the list that I didn't try, and a lot of other beers that looked good, so I may have to head back out there soon. Any recommendations? Their beer list is here.

by **22/7** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:17 pm UTC

Yeah, Hobgoblin is quite good. I've lived in 3 places in the US all of which I've been able to find Hobgoblin fairly easily (and St. Louis is well within that triangle). Also, get to know a bartender/liquor store owner. Oftentimes if you make a request and they're convinced that you'll be back, they'll put in an order.

From that list, there are a few that I'd specifically recommend, if you haven't had it yet.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Not because it's particularly amazing, but because it's generally acknowledged as a very good example of the genre.
Bell's Two-Hearted Ale is a favorite IPA of mine.
Celebrator Dopplebock.
Smithwicks. I actually prefer it to Harp and Guiness. Some may wish to string me up for this opinion.
Delirium Tremens is very good. Many on this forum would agree, if I remember correctly.
Lindeman's Frambois is a decent lambic and very common here in the US. It's also a fun one to drink when you're not really in the mood for beer (if one can not be in the mood for beer).
Pilsner Urquell. Some have claimed that draft Pilsner Urquell has a chicken enchilada after taste.

That said, you should really try all beers. Just not on the same night.

Last.fm · by **korora** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:06 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:That said, you should really try all beers. Just not on the same night.

Does that extend to American-style Lagers? :wink:

Thanks for the list, I'll have to give those a taste as I've managed to try none of those yet. Being in college, there's usually plenty of Keystone/Bud Light/whatever around and not much else, unfortunately.

Oh, probably the strangest beer I've had is Weach, which is a delicious peach/wheat beer from a local brewery in O'Fallon.

by **MotorToad** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:17 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:(if one can not be in the mood for beer).

If I ever see that mood, I shall kill it with fire.

Good selection, though. There are easily three or four fine folks in this thread with whom I would like to tip a glass.

I didn't care for Smithwick's the first time I had it, but I'd been drinking some severe stouts and it was maybe a bit too different. The dozen or so I've had since have been great!

by **mosc** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:07 am UTC

Had a Surly beer called Bender recently. It was extremely well hyped to me on beeradvocate.com... it has impressed some very hard to impress people. Thought I might share a review with y'all. It's a little microbrewery out here in Minnesota that swears by no preservatives and cans instead of bottles. Beer has to be refrigerated from birth to pour.

Look: Semi-dark color, hint of red. Head is amber and fizzles quickly. Bubbly. Has a "young" look to it
Smell: Smell is more subtle than I expected and smokey but more like a light stout than a strong ale.
Mouthfeel: Mouthfeel is weak and smokey. Sweetens quickly.
Flavors: Strong taste of mash. Somewhat sweet. Smokey and more complex elements linger from initial hit but are buried.
Aftertaste: Aftertaste is typical for a "young" or "homebrew". Sweet and chewey with a lingering tang.
Experience: A fairly easy drinking dark beer but the aftertaste was mostly unpleasant. Would be best with palate clearing food like strong cheese.
Preference: I would recommend a traditional nut ale over this brew. They have similar compositions. This beer tastes underdone and raw. The complexity is buried under too much sweetness and the aftertaste is downright unpleasant. Smell and initial hit are complex making this a beer that will do well for a taste but not in pint drinking

Beginning: 4.5/5
Middle: 2/5
End: 1/5
Drinkability: 3/5
Complexity: 4/5
14.5/25... 58%

by **Dream** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:10 am UTC

22/7 wrote:Smithwicks. I actually prefer it to Harp and Guiness. Some may wish to string me up for this opinion.

I'm tying an elaborate knot right now, just for mentioning Harp in he same sentence as Guinness. Harp is ugly chemical soup. Smithwick's is very good, but there are far better red ales, for my money. Someone mentioned a Wychwood ale somewhere above, their red Hobgoblin kicks Smithwick's ass.

by **Azrael** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:15 am UTC

Smithwick's is a red ale? It's ... um ... not red at all. Do you mean Killians?

Edit: Well what do you know, it's a red ale. Huh.

by **clintonius** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:36 am UTC

Deschutes makes a red, Cinder Cone, that I was addicted to while living in the northwest. Can't find it out here. If I recall it's got a lot of hops, but is very, very smooth. It lacks the hoppy crack of pain most IPAs give me, and that's a good thing.

by **dubsola** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:06 pm UTC

Everything that Wychwood make is pure gold (22/7 I am not specifying the beer type here, merely waxing lyrical). Their distribution seems to be quite good, which means the rest of the world is able to taste what proper English ale is like. Me, on the other hand, I merely have to stroll to one of the many fine drinking establishments and order a pint from a cask of proper ale, which might be from Timothy Taylor, Badgers, Fullers, Crouch End, or a small brewery. And then there's the Real Ale festivals.

If you want to learn more about ales like that of Wychwood, there is an advocacy group here called CAMRA which is worth checking out.

by **Samsoneffect** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:43 am UTC

So I got to try a couple new beers recently. Kronenbourg is a french lager, and for me personally, very much enjoyed. The other was called Le Maudite, which is brewed in Montreal and is also quite delicious, though considerably heavier alcoholically than Kronenbourg, at around 8.3%. I think Le Maudite is brewed by the same company that does Fin Du Monde, but I could be mistaken. Both are recommended my this humble chap.

by **the_stabbage** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:38 am UTC

korora wrote:I was out last weekend and had a Hobgoblin Dark English Ale... holy shit that stuff is good. Anybody know if it shows up in stores anywhere (I'm in St. Louis) or if there's something similar I can drink regularly? I enjoy beers on the dark/bitter end, will drink lighter beers if that's what's there. I have a couple friends who homebrew, so I can't quote a ton of brews, but I like things along the lines of Irish Reds and ESB.

The same bar also had a Delirium on the list that I didn't try, and a lot of other beers that looked good, so I may have to head back out there soon. Any recommendations? Their beer list is here.

I hear from USians that Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is good if you want something ESB-like. Also instead of the Delirium you can try Duvel, or Westmalle Dubbel. Duvel is a belgian strong ale, and Westmalle Dubbel is a trappist ale, which are like the supreme kings of beer to many (including me).

Samsoneffect wrote:So I got to try a couple new beers recently. Kronenbourg is a french lager, and for me personally, very much enjoyed. The other was called Le Maudite, which is brewed in Montreal and is also quite delicious, though considerably heavier alcoholically than Kronenbourg, at around 8.3%. I think Le Maudite is brewed by the same company that does Fin Du Monde, but I could be mistaken. Both are recommended my this humble chap.

Yup, Maudite and Fin du Monde are both brewed by the same company. The other one by them you might find commonly is Trois Pistoles. They're made by Unibroue, which is ultimately owned by Sapporo (Japanese beer company). If you like their stuff go for strong Belgian ales, that's the style they try to emulate.

by **22/7** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:28 pm UTC

Dream wrote:I'm tying an elaborate knot right now, just for mentioning Harp in he same sentence as Guinness. Harp is ugly chemical soup. Smithwick's is very good, but there are far better red ales, for my money. Someone mentioned a Wychwood ale somewhere above, their red Hobgoblin kicks Smithwick's ass.

I actually rather enjoy Harp, but rarely end up drinking it because, generally, wherever Harp is found, so is Smithwick's. But yes, Hobgoblin is a delicious, delicious beer. It's high in the running for my favorite.

by **arial** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:32 pm UTC

Beer is proof that someone just wants us to make fools of ourselves on a regular basis.
Whether or not it's god.

by **Bakemaster** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:16 pm UTC

clintonius wrote:Deschutes makes a red, Cinder Cone, that I was addicted to while living in the northwest. Can't find it out here. If I recall it's got a lot of hops, but is very, very smooth. It lacks the hoppy crack of pain most IPAs give me, and that's a good thing.

Deschutes' Black Butte Porter is one of the best-tasting beers I have ever had. Maybe the best tasting. On the other hand, I had a really bad experience with their Inversion IPA at a bar in California, which I'm hoping was the fault of the bar, because it was... real bad. But I will definitely try anything Deschutes any time I can from now on.

korora wrote:Any recommendations? Their beer list is here.

Red Stripe and Newcastle are dependably decent, though with that selection I'd probably take a draught beer over either. I actually don't like Woodchuck's Granny Smith cider, though it may have something to do with associating it with being seasick. Duvel is really excellent.

by **clintonius** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:30 pm UTC

In my admittedly limited exposure, Deschutes is my all-around favorite brewery. Black Butte porter is incredible, as is the Obsidian stout when you're in the mood for something, well, stout. Other favorites of theirs include Jubelale, twilight, buzzsaw (the first beer I attempted to purchase after turning 21 -- to be turned away by the cashier because she wanted to see my previous [hole-punched and therefore INVALID] driver's license in addition to my temp one). . . there are a few others that I can't quite recall, and they seem not to be on the site. Perhaps they're no longer brewed.

I have a friend from Bend, OR who apparently knows the family who owns the brewery. Never did get a chance to exploit that.

by **Absolute** » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:31 am UTC

GMontag wrote:Am I the only person who doesn't think the DFH 90 or 120 minute IPAs are good examples of the style? Now don't get me wrong, I love my IPAs, but DFH's IPAs have too much malt that gets in the way. They are far closer to barley wines than to other American IPAs. To me, the IPA should be a natural extension of the Pale Ale style exemplified by the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, or the Deschutes's Mirror Pond Pale Ale. To me, the definitive IPA is the Bridgeport IPA, and the definitive double or imperial IPA is the Stone Ruination IPA.

I mostly agree there, the only one of those I haven't tried is Mirror Pond(haven't found anythring from Deschutes). Also, I think alot of IPAs go for hoppiness for it's own sake(I think Ruination is somewhat guilty of this), I like hops, so I don't mind this much but it turns alot of people away from the whole category. On the other hand, some IPAs are very bitter because they use a broad spectrum of hops in puruit of complex flavors. The best example is Stone's Arrogant Bastard Ale which is very bitter, but has more complexity to it than any beer I have ever tried. If you find it in 22oz botlles, one should be enough for about three people, because the bitterness makes it hard to want more than a glass of it. There's also an Oaked Arrogant Bastard, which is slightly more drinkable, but less complex and harder to find.

The only other one of my favorites not already mentioned is Petrus' Gouden Tripel. This is nicely complex but still light enough to drink alot of, which is a shame because it's really spendy, about $10/22oz.

On the other end of the price spectrum, I just put my stigma aside and tried Budweiser's American Ale. It's alright, not that good, but drinkable and significantly cheaper than anything as good.

by **22/7** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:35 pm UTC

Absolute wrote:On the other end of the price spectrum, I just put my stigma aside and tried Budweiser's American Ale. It's alright, not that good, but drinkable and significantly cheaper than anything as good.

I would strongly disagree with that, but I also quite like PBR. I'm a big fan of Lone Star as a cheap, very drinkable beer, but, again, lots of people would disagree with me here.

by **GMontag** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:45 pm UTC

Absolute wrote:On the other hand, some IPAs are very bitter because they use a broad spectrum of hops in puruit of complex flavors. The best example is Stone's Arrogant Bastard Ale which is very bitter, but has more complexity to it than any beer I have ever tried. If you find it in 22oz botlles, one should be enough for about three people, because the bitterness makes it hard to want more than a glass of it. There's also an Oaked Arrogant Bastard, which is slightly more drinkable, but less complex and harder to find.

Obviously, you're not worthy

Arrogant Bastard isn't really an IPA either. Arrogant Bastard has the same malt to hop balance as a regular ale, its just a lot stronger. BeerAdvocate classifies it as an "American Strong Ale", which is sort of a catch-all for strong beers that don't fit well in the IPA, DIPA, or barley wine categories. Anyway, it amuses me that you said one 22oz should be enough for three people, because I just saw that the yearly release of Double Bastard is in stores now, and you can get it in 3L bottles for a measly $75.

by **mosc** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:45 pm UTC

Anybody partake in the Sam Adams Octoberfest this year? It seems to be hit an miss, some years it's wonderful, some years it's terrible. I think this is a wonderful year for Sam Adams Octoberfest. Really shows itself as one of the best "pure ales" in the world.

by **22/7** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:52 pm UTC

mosc wrote:Anybody partake in the Sam Adams Octoberfest this year? It seems to be hit an miss, some years it's wonderful, some years it's terrible. I think this is a wonderful year for Sam Adams Octoberfest. Really shows itself as one of the best "pure ales" in the world.

Yes. I don't know that I've been drinking it long enough to say that it's hit and miss, but this year it was quite good, both on tap and in the bottle.

I went to a beer vs. wine dinner last week that feature Arrogant Bastard. It was very well paired.

by **clintonius** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

I've been rather enjoying the Sam Octoberfest on tap. Quite good stuff, that.

by **BomanTheBear** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:08 pm UTC

Oh mah gawd Lienenkugel.

Summer Shanty.

Lemonade Beer.

Oh mah gawd (reiteration).

by **Mr. Mack** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:05 am UTC

I just found some great news that needed to be shared. Yuengling is finally on sale in Georgia!

Although by now I've gotten to the point that I much prefer whiskey to beer. And knowing that it's readily available makes it seem a lot less exciting. Plus it's getting cold now and the microbrews are releasing those great dark beers for a limited time, whereas the Yuengling will still be there in spring. . .

But the important thing is that now I can buy Yuengling if I want to! even if i don't really want to, at the moment. . .

by **Absolute** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:08 pm UTC

Hmm... I was at the package store a few days ago and didn't see it, have you found it on shelves anywhere? If you know where to get it anywhere in the ATL area, please let me know where. I've heard alot about Yeungling, so I wouldn't mind driving a bit to try it.

by **Mr. Mack** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:55 pm UTC

I saw it at the Total Wine in Kennesaw, but there's another one on Perimeter Center West, and they also list as being part of their stock.
Although Yeungling isn't the greatest beer in the world*, it's easily the best value (currently listed at $5.49 a sixpack). I wouldn't say it's worth a huge schlep, unless you buy a lot of other stuff as well.
*Edit: I've only had their flagship lager, I still haven't had their darker beers.

by **MotorToad** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:49 pm UTC

I agree with the value, it's beer-tasting stuff for under a buck each. I prefer the Black & Tan, though I still haven't had the stout with which they make it.

by **22/7** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:18 pm UTC

I've been pleasantly surprised by Yeungling. I just moved and it's essentially unheard of back home but here it's really common, probably the most common out at non-classy bars. Probably. But it's very good for what it is.

by **mosc** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:53 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:I've been pleasantly surprised by Yeungling. I just moved and it's essentially unheard of back home but here it's really common, probably the most common out at non-classy bars. Probably. But it's very good for what it is.

Welcome to Pennsylvania? If you want to put it to the test, get one on tap along with a Sam Adams Boston Lager. The Sam Adams brew is clearly inspired by the Yeungling and to me, clearly out-does it with more hops and a rounder flavor. Still, many bars in PA you'll get bud, bud light, and Yeungling. I suggested ordering "Lager".

For those who have never been to PA bars, Lager is somehow only associated with one beer: Yeungling. It is most frequently ordered by just asking for lager.

by **22/7** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:17 pm UTC

mosc wrote:Welcome to Pennsylvania?

Nope. Right coast, wrong end.

mosc wrote:If you want to put it to the test, get one on tap along with a Sam Adams Boston Lager. The Sam Adams brew is clearly inspired by the Yeungling and to me, clearly out-does it with more hops and a rounder flavor.

Hmm... I'll keep that in mind next time I'm at a pub (tonight) and let you know how it turns out. I've had both, but I've never directly compared them.

by **mosc** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:51 pm UTC

Well, the beer until 2002 or so never left the state thus it is still closely associated with Pennsylvania. There is also the only place I've heard it referred to as simply "lager".

Last.fm · by **korora** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:31 pm UTC

I had the Sam Adams Winter Lager on Friday and I thought it was rather nice.

I also tried Young's Double Chocolate Stout and Delirium Tremens based on the recommendations here recently and thought they were both fantastic, although I don't usually like beers as light as the Tremens.

by **mosc** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:42 pm UTC

Usually when somebody is raving about how good Delirium is, they're raving about Nocturnum, NOT Tremens.

by **22/7** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:44 pm UTC

Eh, I like both quite a bit, but you're right, I do prefer Nocturnum.

Last.fm · by **korora** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:39 pm UTC

I'll have to give the Nocturnum a try, then. My standards may also be low as I'm normally surrounded by piss beers, being a college student.

by **Azrael** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:27 am UTC

Nocturnum. NAO.

by **clintonius** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:01 am UTC

Huh. I'd only ever had the Tremens, and it's not among my favorites. A bit sweet for my tastes. Maredsous -- now that's a tasty beverage.

by **22/7** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:06 pm UTC

Maredsous's not really a "beer" so much as it is a "sweet, sweet nectar of all that good in the world".

by **mosc** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:24 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:Maredsous's not really a "beer" so much as it is a "sweet, sweet nectar of all that good in the world".

The Maredsous 10 is amazing, I agree. Made by the same brewery as Duvel which is also amazing (the only good blonde ever). You have tried St Bernardus Abt 12? Rochefort 8/10? If not, try those as well. They're similar but... more.

by **22/7** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:15 pm UTC

Mmm... Duvel. I got to have that the other night at a beer vs. wine dinner, along with Stone's Arrogant Bastard. It was nice because I so rarely pick up anything Stone due to a general lack of places around here having Stone and the fantastic selection of the handful of places I've been frequenting recently.

by **mosc** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:53 pm UTC

I've had stone's arrogant bastard. I'm not a fan. I'm dieing to try their imperial stout though and I'll be damned if I've seen it anywhere.

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