The Liquor Thread

[Mr. Mack]

In my limited experience, brandy is worse than Scotch on the cost-to-attain-quality scale.

Really? Because in my probably more limited experience, brandy is cheaper. Amongst the domestic brands none exceed $22 and amongst the imports only one exceeds $27.
Maybe I just don't know where the cut-off for good Scotch is. Also, brandy. Especially brandy since I've only had two (both E&J).

[MotorToad]

Yeah, there's plenty of cheap brandy. I just meant that of what I've had, getting good brandy costs more than getting good Scotch. Of course, I've spent about 538450 bajillion times as much time, effort, and money researching Scotch than brandy.

[Mr. Mack]

I confess ignorance.
At what point is something good brandy? The nicest I've ever had was E&J XO. Which, while not awful, certainly wasn't good enough to convert me and I wouldn't believe that it's the best brandy ever.

Although the issue may be that I've never been in the same room as good brandy. I thought the locked up stuff at the local store was Scotch, but there may be some brandy in there that I overlooked.

[MotorToad]

I'd had a couple bottles of various VSOP, just to try it. The very best managed "meh" and got drank when I had nothing better. Then while having a cigar at my favorite shop one of the regulars broke out a $100+/bottle something or other and I tried it, not expecting much. It was... good. Complex, thick texture; different than Scotch, but it had all the depth of taste I like so much about a good whisky. Like I said, it's a pretty slim level of experience, but a $100 in brandy is worth $50-60 in Scotch, so I haven't delved down that path any further.

[sophyturtle]

I had some Brandy with my cider that was wonderful, Smith Brothers I think. It was only like $13 but very good in the cider.

[Mr. Mack]

Earlier in the thread I mentioned that at some point I'd give Jim Beam another go. That's what I'm doing right now. Here's the early results.

Spoiler:

*Hey look!*
Jim Beam's website claims that this is "Orange, russet." Wikipedia says that russet is reddish brown. Right off the bat, Jim Beam loses points for lying.
I'd say it's slightly darker than the pure amber color at the top of this Wikipedia page.

*sniff*sniff*
Dude, sweet! Maybe a little tart as well. Corn does make an appearance. Maybe some grain and, uh, I thought I smelled pepper or something else spicy, but I can't recreate the results.

*drip*drip*sniff*sniff*
Some caramel, wood, Some. . . thing unpleasant. I'm not sure what, but I don't much care for it at all. Fortunately it's pretty mild.

*sip*sip*
Sweetness, a little vanilla but mostly corn.

There's a line, on one side is "subtle," on the other side is "watery." W.L. Weller Special Reserve is subtle. Jim Beam is watery.
A real light tart taste and an even lighter grain taste.

The finish is pretty short. It tastes like musty cornmeal. Maybe a little pepper and barley, but I might be fooling myself.

I kind of like the start, but the finish is pretty bad.

*drip*drip*sip*sip*
Grainier (that's not a word).
There's something gross in the finish. I was only vaguely aware of it before, but it's stronger now. Whatever it is, it isn't dominating.

*Poke it with a stick!*
Jim Beam has no right to burn this much.
Now don't get me wrong. The burn isn't bad at all and this can easily be drunk neat. But when trying to savor the flavor it burns more than an 80 proof whiskey should.
But for regular sipping the burn is negligible.

Although after a while my body seems pretty irritated about it. My esophagus is doing it's best to inform me that when I'm drinking isn't an actual beverage.

I'm working on trying it in mixed drinks now.

[Amarantha]

I have a bottle (nearly gone) of Hennessy XO, which I got ridiculously cheap (comparatively speaking) because it was duty-free in Thailand. It's good, but not so good I'd be willing to buy more at local prices. I only really use it in cocktails, because I don't love it enough to bother drinking it straight. I might get some VSOP for mixing once the XO is gone.

Armagnac, on the other hand, can be heavenly. In fact, Calvados also. But I've only had those in restaurants, so I don't know how much they'd cost for a bottle, even if I knew where to find one. I've had iirc Comte de Lamaestre 1979 and Delord 1985, and I forget which others.

[Azrael]

Armagnac, on the other hand, can be heavenly.

And probably the best quality/$ in brandy as well.

Although, if you skip the usual suspects (Couv., Hennessey) there's some mighty fine cognac at reasonable prices -- Pierre Ferrand, for example. Even Martell, despite being a large producer, is really nice.

[Matt]

Earlier in the thread I mentioned that at some point I'd give Jim Beam another go.

Yeah, good bourbon is just so cheap there's really no reason to ever drink Beam White.

I'd had a couple bottles of various VSOP, just to try it. The very best managed "meh" and got drank when I had nothing better. Then while having a cigar at my favorite shop one of the regulars broke out a $100+/bottle something or other and I tried it, not expecting much. It was... good. Complex, thick texture; different than Scotch, but it had all the depth of taste I like so much about a good whisky. Like I said, it's a pretty slim level of experience, but a $100 in brandy is worth $50-60 in Scotch, so I haven't delved down that path any further.

That's about my experience as well besides not knowing anything above 40 dollars in scotch. I'm not interested in a sipper, but I want to know what level my lack of decent spirit is going to take a chunk out of the cocktails I make and how little I can spend to achieve that. I'd been meaning to try E&J XO and I have a couple cheapy offname VS cognacs around, Landy VS is a definite no.

[Mr. Mack]

Yeah, good bourbon is just so cheap there's really no reason to ever drink Beam White.

So far I'd say that Beam isn't bad, it's perfectly drinkable. It isn't good, but it isn't bad. I'm referring to it as the "Least Objectionable Bourbon" (a rip-off of "Least Objectionable Programming," an old TV policy). It meets the minimum standards for the largest number of people.

Don't get me wrong, I'd never buy it again. Since I could get Canadian Club or Evan Williams for less, or Canadian Club Reserve or Evan Williams 1783 for a dollar more. But considering the quality of other popular drinks (like Budweiser or most macro-domestic beers) I was expecting a lot worse.

[Mr. Mack]

Sorry about the double-post, but it looks like I killed the thread and I'm trying to atone.

I'd been meaning to try E&J XO

I tried some during the holidays after I ran out of Knob Creek (my parents are pretty cool sometimes). I've never written up brandy before, so here goes.
It was plenty smooth. Specifically, as compared to Knob Creek.
It passed the fingerprint test and and was accordingly subtle (apparently, I'm not a huge fan of subtle. Does that mean I'll never be distinguished?)
The price is also really good. I can pick up a fifth locally for $13.

If it sounds too good to be true, that's because

A) My only basis for comparison is a 50 mL of E&J VSOP
B) I haven't mentioned anything specific about the taste

So, here it is, it lacks complexity. I didn't take any notes, but I seem to remember thinking it tasted like wine, tart grapes, "warm oaky goodness," and after a while it started to develop a pleasant earthy flavor. I'm pretty sure I'm leaving something out, but one more thing wouldn't make it all that complicated.

Does anyone know what the best affordable brandy is? Or is that like asking for the driest type of orange?

[Azrael]

What is "affordable"? I think that below $40 there isn't much of a consensus because the people honestly interested in quality don't really review those.

[|Erasmus|]

Anyone here have any experience to tell me whether or not Tanqueray 10 is better than the regular stuff?

Was checking out the duty free stuff on my way out this morning, and the prices seem much better than the bottle shops around where I live, so I'd like to get a nice bottle of gin on my way back, but not really sure if the 10 is worth the extra money. Advice?

[clintonius]

It's been a couple years since I've had it, but I do remember it being different from the regular stuff in a G&T. Can't remember if it was better, per se, but notably different. Worth a shot if it can be had cheaply.

[Dream]

Anyone here have any experience to tell me whether or not Tanqueray 10 is better than the regular stuff?

Was checking out the duty free stuff on my way out this morning, and the prices seem much better than the bottle shops around where I live, so I'd like to get a nice bottle of gin on my way back, but not really sure if the 10 is worth the extra money. Advice?

Yes, it is far better than the regular Tanqueray. At least, that's what I remember from a comparative gin tasting last summer. Tanqueray 10 came out on top beside Beefeater, Hendricks, Martin Millers and the regular Tanqueray. However, I can't for the life of me remember the tasting itself. Probably, go to a good bar, and order them neat side by side, and decide for yourself.

[bigglesworth]

Damn, this thread is making me feel bad about my taste for cheap rum...

[Matt]

Anyone here have any experience to tell me whether or not Tanqueray 10 is better than the regular stuff?

Yes, it is far better than the regular Tanqueray. At least, that's what I remember from a comparative gin tasting last summer.

I have also tasted them side by side, and I can honestly say it is obvious they are the same gin. Tanq ten is simply less of all of the same flavors. If you can't stand your gin tasting like anything, by all means try 10, but if you're going to mix it with anything you're going to cover it all right up.

[Amarantha]

...order them neat side by side, and decide for yourself.

I have also tasted them side by side...

This is what miniatures are for

[3fj]

Swedish liquors to try?

(NB: In a bar, im under 20 D:)

(NVB: Though i do have older flatmates...)


EDIT: OH! I have whiskey news to share.
I was in Edinburgh, in some sort of crazy bar with my uncle and a work colleague of his. Long story short, we found the whiskey bar upstairs, and i saw one that was brewed in a tiny village next to a tiny village i used to live in.
Fettercairn whiskey: Smooth as a brick, and heather-y.

[Dream]

I never got to have a Fettercairn in all my time in Scotland. I've missed out there.

Can you remember anything about the bar? I lived in Edinburgh for years, so I might know it.

[3fj]

Its at the very, very top of leith walk, just opposite the shopping centre and has two big poles with fire on top. Hunters lodge, maybe? Something like that.

Its near the Holiday Inn round about there.

NB: looked on google maps, the closest looking thing (at a glance) is the baroque.

[Mr. Mack]

"So, Mr. Mack, what's new with you?" I hear you all loudly not asking. Well, I picked up a bottle of Canadian Club 100 Proof. More interestingly, I found a different brand of corn whiskey called "Mellow Corn." It's bottled in bond, so it's four years old and also 100 proof. It smells really smooth and sweet, and a little tangy. I'm excited to try it.

I also came this close to buying Lucid. There was a little box set complete with glasses and a spoon. But I just couldn't bring myself to blindly spend $60 on something like that. Does anyone have any experience with the stuff?

And on a largely off-topic note, my review of Old Overholt was named "Awesome Blog of the Week" (25 minutes in). Awesome!

[|Erasmus|]

Tanqueray is much better than the Bombay Sapphire as far as the relatively expensive Gins go. I'm much much happier with spending the money on this one.

[Dream]

I also came this close to buying Lucid. There was a little box set complete with glasses and a spoon. But I just couldn't bring myself to blindly spend $60 on something like that. Does anyone have any experience with the stuff?

It's an absinthe, I imagine? If it talks up being "real" and having wormwood and all that, run a mile. If it talks up botanicals and distilling techniques, then there's only a chance you'd be robbed blind, and shortly thereafter turned blind. In my opinion there is very little good absinthe. Most of it is marketing. However, if this were to be a good one, then go for it, because it is a really nice drink when it's good.

[Azrael]

Regarding absinthe: Follow your way thorough the various postings and links here. Guy knows of what he speaks.

[clintonius]

Bumped for Noah's Mill bourbon. It's got a fair amountof vanilla in it, and is incredibly smooth for a 114-proof alcohol. Go get it.

[Bakemaster]

Tonight EsotericWombat and I found a bottle of Absolut New Orleans mango & black pepper vodka in a liquor cabinet. Our eyebrows were raised. I don't even like vodka as a rule, but this was a very intriguing blend of flavors to propose. So we tried a few sips.

Wow. It works something fierce. The pepper is a mellow, spicy warmth, without the sharp bite that I had expected, that I expect when I crack pepper over a meal. The mango, to be honest, could probably be a little stronger—or maybe that's just what I was expecting? Mango is the clear dominant initial flavor, but it's not a particularly sweet one, and the pepper behind it is so intriguing that I found it firmly took my attention in the finish. One review on the internet, I think at About.com, called this "a gin-drinker's vodka", and I think that's somewhat accurate in that its flavor feels more spicy and herbal than loudly fruity, as you might get with other infused vodkas.

I am definitely going to get a bottle of this at some point to do some more exploring, and since this is a limited edition vodka and all of the profits from its sales are going to charities related to rebuilding New Orleans, I will probably buy a second bottle for saving if my experiences with the first bottle are as good as my initial taste. The internet recommends using it in a French 76.

[Mr. Mack]

*clunk* Oops, sorry, I seem to have bumped into this thread.

How was everyone's St. Patrick's Day?
Honestly, I had never really had a bottle of Jameson before. I thought it would be like the Jim Beam of Irish whiskey. Being a pessimist makes being wrong enjoyable.
So I was wondering what everyone had to say about other Irish whiskeys? I was wondering about the well-grade Kilbeggan and Powers as well as the higher end Tullamore Dew and Bushmills Single Malt (10 year, 16 year is too expensive)? Or, of course, any other Irish whiskey you think may be worth mentioning.

I've also recently noticed a low priced single malt Scotch called McClelland's. It doesn't have an age statement, so I'm skeptical. Does anyone know if it's inexpensive, or just cheap? I was also wondering about Tamdhu, Tomatin, and Speyburn.

Oh, and a quick note about Pinnacle Gin. It sucks. It taste like mineral water with a little pine and citrus. It's well-balanced and smooth, but has a really weak flavor. I just made a martini that tasted like vermouth and lemon peel. I understand that it's supposed to be a follow-up product to the company's vodka, but I think they just re-labeled their vodka and hoped no one would notice.

[Amarantha]

McClelland's does independent bottlings of Auchentoshan (Lowland), Glen Garioch (Highland), Bowmore (Islay) and something from Speyside (possibly Macallan). Independent bottlings can be a way to get good whisky cheap, since you're not paying for the name. Or they can suck You never know until you try.

[MotorToad]

I've also recently noticed a low priced single malt Scotch called McClelland's.

I rate the ir "Islay" malt Do Not Touch! Bad. Very bad.

[Azrael]

How was everyone's St. Patrick's Day?
Honestly, I had never really had a bottle of Jameson before. I thought it would be like the Jim Beam of Irish whiskey. Being a pessimist makes being wrong enjoyable.
So I was wondering what everyone had to say about other Irish whiskeys? I was wondering about the well-grade Kilbeggan and Powers as well as the higher end Tullamore Dew and Bushmills Single Malt (10 year, 16 year is too expensive)? Or, of course, any other Irish whiskey you think may be worth mentioning.

I recently brought a bottle of Tyrconnell single malt back from a quick duty-free stop in Dublin and it was good enough to make Belial declare we should all move to Ireland.

Unfortunately, very few independent (i.e. not produced by Jameson or Bushmills) Irish whiskeys are available in the US. So depending on where you are, it might require international travel to get some.

[Dream]

If anyone liked Jameson's, probably just go straight for the 12yo or 1780 versions of the same, they're wonderful. The best reviewed half-affordable Irish whiskey is probably Redbreast. The 15yo is available fairly widely, and the 21 is rarer, and quite pricey. The local specialty in Ireland is Pure Pot Still, which is pot still distilled whiskey, but not all of the mash is malted barley. So in that regard, it is different from Single Malt. Redbreast is one of these. I like the Bushmills Single Malts a lot, although the 16yo is quite expensive. There's quite a bit of sherry influence there. The one I don't rate at all is the Black Bush, the premium blended Bushmills. I find it to be a bit off balance and uneven on the palate.

About a year back I had a great bottle of a Single Grain called Greenore, 8 years old, oily and sweet. It was just about the easiest drinking whiskey I've ever come across. A bit floral, and very little oak influence, but still full bodied and complex enough to keep going back to. Wonderful stuff, but I have no idea how much it cost because it was a gift.

I was also wondering about Tamdhu, Tomatin, and Speyburn.

Hmmn. I haven't had any but an old independent Tamdhu that was unimpressive. So let's ask this guy:

Spoiler:

Tamdhu: Mild, urbane, versatile. Clean, sweet palate, light body, easy drinking. (Hmmn, no wonder I didn't like it...)
Tomatin: Malty, spicy, rich, restorative. Soft bodied, smooth. Sweet, gingery perfumey.
Speyburn: Flowery, heathery, herbal. Medium bodied, gentle and very sweet finish.

I should note that I don't actually rate MJ's reviewing or scoring. I'm only using him because Jim Murray isn't to hand.

[MotorToad]

I just bought a bottle of Jim Beam. I have recommended it as it's been a favorite cheap whiskey for years. Lots of years.

However, something has changed. I don't actually taste any whiskey in it at all. I liked it because it had the corn and charred oak flavors that are the accident we call bourbon, and little else. I don't know if they went cheap on something or if it was a change in the tasting and blending, but it's all gone. Bummer.

I suppose if I cared enough I'd go amend my recommendation, but I'll just leave this confession here. (Assuming I can still use the word "confession" here.) If you want cheap and drinkable, buy Canadian.

[Matt]

I just bought a bottle of Jim Beam. I have recommended it as it's been a favorite cheap whiskey for years. Lots of years.

However, something has changed. I don't actually taste any whiskey in it at all. I liked it because it had the corn and charred oak flavors that are the accident we call bourbon, and little else. I don't know if they went cheap on something or if it was a change in the tasting and blending, but it's all gone. Bummer.

I suppose if I cared enough I'd go amend my recommendation, but I'll just leave this confession here. (Assuming I can still use the word "confession" here.) If you want cheap and drinkable, buy Canadian.

They did it because they knew people would keep blindly buying it and mixing it with cola anyhow.

I wouldn't recommend cheap Canadian ever, especially if you're looking for anything besides plain alcohol content. Cheap awesome bourbon is most definitely obtainable.

[AntonGarou]

I love Tia Maria(best coffee liquor ever!!) and last night I had chilly(as in chilly pepper) liquor- it's an Israeli invention so I'm not sure if it's available abroad but if you like spicy stuff and alcohol you'll probably love it- out of the people who like spicy stuff it was 1 vote for it being too aggressive and 3 for it being delicious. I also love good scotch, but can't afford it as of yet- I was ruined by my father's drink cabinet, since he has really good scotch, he also has Henessy Paradis cognac that he bought years ago and is still more then half full since he rations it with iron hand.

[Mr. Mack]

I recently brought a bottle of Tyrconnell single malt back from a quick duty-free stop in Dublin and it was good enough to make Belial declare we should all move to Ireland.

Unfortunately, very few independent (i.e. not produced by Jameson or Bushmills) Irish whiskeys are available in the US. So depending on where you are, it might require international travel to get some.

ME: "Hmm, international travel would put that whiskey out of my price range. Where might I find it locally?"
TERTIARY CHARACTER: "A liquor store?"
ME: "No shit, Sherlock."

So they had it at Sherlock's. I hadn't been there in a while, so I had forgotten that they do a great job of carrying things that aren't always easy to find. It was $27, but I though it'd be over 30. This makes it the most expensive bottle of whiskey I've ever purchased. It's also my first whiskey to come in a cardboard tube! And it's my first whole bottle of single malt! I'm pretty excited about it. I think I'm going to save it for the end of the semester.

But the real reason I was at Sherlock's was to look at tequila (my usual store left me racked with indecision). I eventually settled on el Jimador Reposado. I had remembered someone on the forum mentioning it somewhere. When I got around to double-checking, it turned out that Azrael had mentioned it as an acceptable mixed tequila, and I had bought the 100% version. oops.
Anywho, it won me over when I found a box set that included two "Premium sipping glasses," that are basically 4 oz shot glasses built on a 1.5 inch bases. They weren't free, but they were awesome. Plus I wanted something that seemed appropriate for tequila. They're surprisingly effectively at concentrating the aroma.
I'd also like to express shock and displeasure at the fact that tequila seems to get really expensive really fast. It seems to jump straight from cheap to super-premium with only a few products filling in the intermediate prices. I wonder if the reason tequila can't shake its poor reputation is because nobody can afford the 100%, añejo brands.

I suppose if I cared enough I'd go amend my recommendation, but I'll just leave this confession here.

If it makes you feel better, I forgive you. We all make mistakes. I once drank Old Thompson on purpose. Nobody's perfect.

Cheap awesome bourbon is most definitely obtainable.

Didn't you mention Evan Williams earlier in the thread? I second that, Evan Williams tastes like bourbon and shouldn't break the bank. I keep meaning to try their 10 year old offering, but I've been trying to branch out from just drinking bourbon.

last night I had chilly(as in chilly pepper) liquor- it's an Israeli invention so I'm not sure if it's available abroad but if you like spicy stuff and alcohol you'll probably love it- out of the people who like spicy stuff it was 1 vote for it being too aggressive and 3 for it being delicious.

This makes me think of two things. 1)In New Orleans Voodoo Baron Samedi's favorite drink is rum with 21 hot peppers steeping in it. 2)Tabasco™ Tequila.

[Azrael]

I eventually settled on el Jimador Reposado. I had remembered someone on the forum mentioning it somewhere. When I got around to double-checking, it turned out that Azrael had mentioned it as an acceptable mixed tequila, and I had bought the 100% version. oops.

I'd also like to express shock and displeasure at the fact that tequila seems to get really expensive really fast. It seems to jump straight from cheap to super-premium with only a few products filling in the intermediate prices.

A friend of mine returned from Mexico recently with 100% el Jimador bottlings, so evidently it's out there. The stuff I'm familiar with is mixed. Regardless, el Jimador is distilled by Herradura, which means you can't go wrong with it.

As for middle-range: Sauza Hornitos is the only thing, really (Cazadores isn't too expensive, but I didn't like it much). Hornitos isn't the best stuff out there, but it's 100%, mid-priced and good. I'm a big fan of all of Sauza's products and typically stock their mixed blanco for the occasional pitcher of frozen margaritas for my friends who aren't snobby drinkers.

Hmm, I'll have to alert Belial that Tyrconnell does have a US distributor. As an interesting aside, it's actually cheaper to go Boston-Dublin right now than Boston-Atlanta.

[Matt]

Hornitos has been the only thing for a long time, and a while back they expanded the line with blanco and anejo hornitos, which is kind of intriguing and i haven't gotten around to tasting either (haven't really been in the tequila mood). I liked hornitos (for cocktails) for how it was mild and not too assertive in flavor, which is really just a characteristic of a reposado. Another new bottle in the price range is Lunazul, offered in blanco and reposado, which is apparently imported by the heaven hill folks and priced more or less exactly the same. I feel like i've already mentioned it in here. Anyone tried it?

[Dream]

I have a bottle of Glen Moray at the moment. It's very recommendable in the grand scheme of whiskies. A bit sweet, clean on the palate and easy drinking. It lacks the complexity of other Single Malts, and finishes far faster than anything I'd rate really highly, but it has the great virtue of being really cheap, for a malt. My bottle was $40 Australian, where the really good stuff kicks off around $100. Very worth the money, but not among the whiskies that make Scotch the greatest.

[Mr. Mack]

So I was at the liquor store today (the third one, for those keeping track). A woman there told me about how much she loves Milagro Silver Tequila. Specifically, she mentioned that it's the only liquor that she's had that didn't give her a huge hangover. I didn't buy it because I can find it for $8 less elsewhere, but I am interested in it. Has anyone tried it?

What I ended up buying was a bottle of Sol Azul Silver Tequila. I hadn't seen it anywhere else and it was pretty cheap for 100% agave ($16 at a store that isn't know for great prices). It doesn't get a lot of references on Google and their website seems to have been designed by freecsstemplates.org. However, what little I could find seemed to be positive. Anyone heard of it?

Lastly, I've read a few things about agave shortages. Has anyone who's been buying tequila for a while noticed prices going up more than other spirits?