Underscores vs CamelCase

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EvanED
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby EvanED » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:04 am UTC

Silver2Falcon wrote:If you're using CamelCase it would be XMLParser, wouldn't it? Not capitalizing all the letters in an acronym is idiotic.

It's not idiotic if it makes it easier to read, which I think it does.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Geekthras » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:52 am UTC

Since I generally just program in Java, I use UpperCamelCase for classes, lowerCamelCase for methods + fields, and LOL_UPPERCASE_WITH_UNDERSCORES for final fields, so

Code: Select all

public class AnAwesomeClass {
     private int someInt=4, anotherInt=5, anImportantInt=42;
     private final int RANDOM_NUMBER=4; //Chosen by dice roll, guaranteed to be random
     public void doSomeStuff(int input) {
          anotherInt+=randomNumber(input);
     }
     public int randomNumber(int input) {
          return RANDOM_NUMBER;
     }
}

On another note, what do you use for curly brackets and spaces?
public class SomeClass {
or
public class SomeClass
{

also,
int specialInt=Math.sin(4+2*x);
or
int specialInt = Math.sin( 4 + 2 * x );
or something in between
I personally go for the first one in both. I barely ever do coding projects with other people, and if they're too damn lazy to figure out how to read condensed code, then fuck them. I need to use more comments though >_> Even though my longest single class to date is *checks* 607 lines long, and the longest project about 1000 lines or so (it's in like 5 different classes, so I don't feel like checking yet), even I occasionally get lost in my program. That 607 line class? Yeah, it has 4 lines of comments. However, I started that when I was just beginning, so I'm better now.
Wait. With a SPOON?!

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby shash » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:02 am UTC

EvanED wrote:Here's an interesting question: what do you do with acronyms?

For instance, would you create a class called XMLParser, or take the .Net standards and do it as XmlParser? What about when doing underscores? XML_parser, Xml_parser, or xml_parser?

(Personally, I like XmlParser and either XML_parser or xml_parser. XMLParser I think makes it harder to find the divisions between the "words".)


Two letters: capitalize both
Three or more: Treat them like a word.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby b.i.o » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:34 am UTC

EvanED wrote:
Silver2Falcon wrote:If you're using CamelCase it would be XMLParser, wouldn't it? Not capitalizing all the letters in an acronym is idiotic.

It's not idiotic if it makes it easier to read, which I think it does.


I don't think XMLParser is at all hard to read. And XmlParser looks just plain wrong to me.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Main » Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:29 am UTC

I like Common Lisp's convention of separating-words-with-hyphens much more than PHP's usually_using_underscores or .NET and it's AnnoyingCamelCaseEverywhere. Of course, in most languages the hyphen is also the minus sign - but not in Lisp, because of prefix notation, and separating *everything* with either a space or a paren.
Last edited by Main on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:37 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Code: Select all

(format t "~&~9,'0,V,3:B" #\Newline 143)

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby enk » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:36 pm UTC

I thought the separating-words-with-hyphens (or, as I'd put it connecting-words-with-hyphens) of CSS was fine until I wanted to dynamically set it:

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myrules[0].style.background-color = bgColor;

Javascript insisted that it should count as a minus, so I looked around and changed it to this!

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myrules[0].style.setProperty('background-color',bgColor,null);

But that doesn't work on IE... :|
At last I read somewhere that what is connected-with-hyphens in CSS should be camelCased in JS.

Code: Select all

myrules[0].style.backgroundColor = bgColor;

Voila, now it works!
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Triss Hawkeye » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:31 am UTC

Mostly due to convention, but I prefer UpperCamelCase for classes, lowerCamelCase for variables and functions and underscores for filenames. It's just because I'm used to it really, no other reason. I do find underscaores slightly easier to read though. Slightly.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Amnesiasoft » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:47 am UTC

I prefer the .Net style. It looks cleaner and just seems, well, more logical. Since when did anyone use an underscore when they were writing by hand? If people did it before emails, then I've never seen it.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby d3adf001 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:50 am UTC

i dont like uppercase at all. so underscores all the way. too bad you have to hit shift to get them

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Xanthir » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:22 pm UTC

Big fan of the lispy convention of using dashes. Easy to hit, no need for shift, it's wonderful all around. For that matter, also a fan of the ** and ++ conventions for globals and constants, because it offers *immediate* recognition. But that latter isn't such a big deal.

If a language doesn't allow dashes, I go with underscores. I like it better than the camelCase, especially when you run into capitalization issues as noted above with XML and such.

I am, however, inconsistent in this regard, and will sometimes switch to camelCase if the surrounding code is camelCased.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Rysto » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:52 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:I prefer the .Net style. It looks cleaner and just seems, well, more logical. Since when did anyone use an underscore when they were writing by hand? If people did it before emails, then I've never seen it.

Since when do people not use spaces?

I prefer CamelCase myself, but your argument strikes me as being rather silly.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:54 pm UTC

Rysto wrote:Since when do people not use spaces?

I prefer CamelCase myself, but your argument strikes me as being rather silly.

You obviously just haven't seen some people's writing :P, besides, you can't use spaces in variable names. I actually never really use lowercase letters, they're just smaller capital letters when I write because I find capital letters can be written down faster most of the time while being more readable.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby qbg » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:46 am UTC

i-thought-we-had-this-settled

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby enk » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:38 pm UTC

yeah_me_too
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Vanguard » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:47 pm UTC

CameCase in my opinion.

ARREST THE SPACES.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby zenten » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:38 pm UTC

Vanguard wrote:CameCaseInMyOpinion.

ArrestTheSpaces.


Fixed.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Vanguard » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:39 pm UTC

zenten wrote:
Vanguard wrote:CameCaseInMyOpinion.

ArrestTheSpaces.


Fixed.


Haha,Clever.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:39 pm UTC

qbg wrote:i-thought-we-had-this-settled

Rysto <-- HeRestartedIt!

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Rysto » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:53 pm UTC

Don't look at me. Xanthir bumped this thread, not me.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:09 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
qbg wrote:i-thought-we-had-this-settled

Xanthir <-- HeRestartedIt!

Fine then, fixed.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Xanthir » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:14 pm UTC

Hey, when a thread isn't even halfway down the page, it's not my fault for bumping. I shouldn't be expected to check the last post date until I'm starting to hit the bottom. ^_^
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby evilbeanfiend » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:30 pm UTC

Main wrote:I like Common Lisp's convention of separating-words-with-hyphens much more than PHP's usually_using_underscores or .NET and it's AnnoyingCamelCaseEverywhere. Of course, in most languages the hyphen is also the minus sign - but not in Lisp, because of prefix notation, and separating *everything* with either a space or a parathesis.

And yes, I will go to the intro thread some time soon.


yes i like it too, its a pain to make it work in other languages e.g. its fine for most commands in tcl but if you send it to expr you are in trouble!

qbg wrote:i-thought-we-had-this-settled


religious wars are never settled.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby zenten » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:07 pm UTC

evilbeanfiend wrote:yes i like it too, its a pain to make it work in other languages e.g. its fine for most commands in tcl but if you send it to expr you are in trouble!

qbg wrote:i-thought-we-had-this-settled


religious wars are never settled.


Sure they are. Just ask the Cathars.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Arancaytar » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:41 pm UTC

I would argue that "settled" implies that the war ends in agreement rather than the extermination of one side. In that sense, religious wars are indeed settled astonishingly rarely.

---

All of my code is written in Java and PHP.

Java is completely case sensitive. Both this and convention make me pick CamelCase for Java code.

PHP is inconsistently case sensitive, and case sensitivity has (allegedly, not tested) been changed between PHP4 and PHP5. This confuses and annoys me. I therefore completely avoid capital letters in PHP code, outside CONSTANTs. So I use underscores in PHP.

In the latter part, I am also influenced by the code style conventions of Drupal, which also uses underscores. PHP has no single definitive convention, though.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby coppro » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

I find lower_case_with_underscores easier to read (hyphens don't count because I don't program in languages where they are valid identifier characters), but harder to type. And I prefer the distinction that they give, so I always use lower_case_with_underscores for variables and namespaces, but lowerCamelCase for functions and UpperCamelCase for classes.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby zahlman » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:09 am UTC

I've been known to use both in the same class. Just can't make up my mind. ;_;
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Xanthir » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:10 am UTC

Just so you know, that *does* make you a bad person.

I'm totally serious. I hate the designers of php for not settling on a single convention for function naming. They go back and forth between underscores and nothing at all.
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Skateside » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:27 pm UTC

I use underscores for no better reason than the teacher who taught me Lingo used underscores (and started every label off with "my_")

Sometimes, if the mood takes me, I'll use CamelCase, but I've gotten intot he habbit of underscores now
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby 0xDEADBEEF » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:07 pm UTC

url=http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/Names.html#Names

Richard Stallman wrote:Please use underscores to separate words in a name, so that the Emacs word commands can be useful within them. Stick to lower case; reserve upper case for macros and enum constants, and for name-prefixes that follow a uniform convention.

For example, you should use names like ignore_space_change_flag; don't use names like iCantReadThis.


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I believe it.
That settles it.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby EvanED » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:13 pm UTC

0xDEADBEEF wrote:
Richard Stallman wrote:Please use underscores to separate words in a name, so that the Emacs word commands can be useful within them.

I think this statement is broken. If the tool is "broken", why not fix the tool instead of changing your coding standards? When using ctrl-arrow, Eclipse moves within words. It wouldn't be that hard to do.

Want to argue that underscores_are_easier_to_read because the words are more distinguished? Fine. But the above argument just seems stupid, especially 'cause it's likely that you could provide a .emacs that changes that behavior.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby thethirdmoose » Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:44 am UTC

pshhhhh
all i need is x,y,z,a,b,c,d,e,f,g... and sometimes x1,y1,etc.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Ptolom » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:29 pm UTC

I_hate_camel_case
It looks revolting to me. Especially when with My
"MyInt" *shudder*

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby chriswyatt » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:46 pm UTC

Many people in my office use This_Naming_Convention, which combines the worst of using camel-case and underscores. It's really nasty, but for some odd reason, it's very popular in my place of work.

I personally prefer underscores and don't think the extra key-press is a big deal. For me underscores are more readable. But I don't have a particular preference either way, the main thing that irks me is inconsistency, that and mixing 2 conventions together (horrible).

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Nyktos » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:34 am UTC

I have a mild preference for underscores, but I'm not even going to pretend to have an objective basis for this one. A lot of people claim underscores are more readable, but when your identifiers are of reasonable length I've never really felt there to be much difference. One thing that does bother me is the inconsistency that seems to come up with either of them. For instance, in most situations where camel case is preferred, underscores are still used when naming constants in ALL_CAPS. On the other hand, the convention in Python and Rust (and probably others) is underscores for functions and variables, but UpperCamelCase for types because nobody likes Underscores_With_Caps.

Hyphens are a nice idea, if you can resolve the syntactic ambiguity with infix subtraction. (I'm not convinced that the Lisp approach of removing infix operators entirely is the correct one, but making whitespace around operators significant seems even worse.) Hyphens have the nice property that all-lowercase, ALL-UPERCASE, and Initial-Caps all actually look okay. Thugh for whatever reason, the dot notation for object attributes (some-object.foo-bar) looks weird to me with hyphens. I guess it's probably because the dot is down at the bottom whereas the hyphens are in the middle. CLRS uses that style, for instance, and it always takes me a moment to parse.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby chridd » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:29 pm UTC

Nyktos wrote:but UpperCamelCase for types because nobody likes Underscores_With_Caps.
What about Underscores_with_one_cap (used in The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition by Bjarne Stroustrup)?
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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby mousewiz » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:05 pm UTC

I use the Javaish conventions, but I don't really have strong feelings either way so long as the code base is consistent. It's annoying when it isn't. I'm used to camel, so reading it isn't a strain compared to underscores, plus it's less keystrokes. I also find it slightly easier to remember identifiers because my brain doesn't need to think about where the underscores go (because people just sometimes don't use anything... sometimes it's C's fault (eg strcmp) and other times it's not everyone agreeing on if there's one word or two; the problem is less bad with camel case unless you're in a case sensitive language).

The only time I *really* want underscores is when acronyms are involved. I hate both URLEncoder and UrlEncorder. URL_Encoder and url_encoder both seem fine, though. Just for an example.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Derek » Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:39 pm UTC

I prefer the Java conventions, but I also try to use the standards of whatever language I'm working in (particularly because libraries that I have to call will use those standards). This means underscores for C and god knows what for Python and C++ because those communities can't even agree with themselves.

mousewiz wrote:The only time I *really* want underscores is when acronyms are involved. I hate both URLEncoder and UrlEncorder. URL_Encoder and url_encoder both seem fine, though. Just for an example.

I think UrlEncoder looks good here.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Nyktos » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:23 am UTC

chridd wrote:
Nyktos wrote:but UpperCamelCase for types because nobody likes Underscores_With_Caps.
What about Underscores_with_one_cap (used in The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition by Bjarne Stroustrup)?
That's even worse.

Derek wrote:I prefer the Java conventions, but I also try to use the standards of whatever language I'm working in (particularly because libraries that I have to call will use those standards). This means underscores for C and god knows what for Python and C++ because those communities can't even agree with themselves.
Python standardized on underscores (with UpperCamelCase for classes) over a decade ago. There are a few prominent projects (Twisted and various Zope things) that use camel case, but those are all ancient.

C++ uses underscores in the standard library (including for classes) so I'd consider that to be the "correct" style for C++ code, even though a lot of style guides prescribe camel case.

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby EvanED » Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:48 am UTC

Nyktos wrote:
Derek wrote:I prefer the Java conventions, but I also try to use the standards of whatever language I'm working in (particularly because libraries that I have to call will use those standards). This means underscores for C and god knows what for Python and C++ because those communities can't even agree with themselves.
Python standardized on underscores (with UpperCamelCase for classes) over a decade ago. There are a few prominent projects (Twisted and various Zope things) that use camel case, but those are all ancient.

C++ uses underscores in the standard library (including for classes) so I'd consider that to be the "correct" style for C++ code, even though a lot of style guides prescribe camel case.
I think I agree with Derek on C++, but not on Python. There are occasional stragglers, but it seems to me like the Python community has about as much agreement on underscores as you could hope for without a Haskell-style enforcement by the language.

C++, on the other hand, I can buy the underscores for the "correct" style... but from what I can tell, it's almost the opposite situation from Python: instead of there being a few stragglers that don't use the suggested style (as in Python), there seem to be only a few C++ projects that do. If I think through the largeish C++ libraries I can think of off the top of my head, boost is the only one that comes to mind that matches. It seems like in C++ land you have to go with what much of the community prefers -- camelcase, at least for types -- or what the rarely-used-but-official style says.

But that's an easy choice for C++ because using lowercase_underscores for everything (even types) is almost as dumb and annoying as the .Net style of UpperCamel for everything (even methods). :-)

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Re: Underscores vs CamelCase

Postby Derek » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:06 am UTC

Nyktos wrote:Python standardized on underscores (with UpperCamelCase for classes) over a decade ago. There are a few prominent projects (Twisted and various Zope things) that use camel case, but those are all ancient.

Python's collections have the following types:

namedtuple
deque
Counter
OrderedDict
defaultdict

Thus showing two styles of type name in one module (neither of which is using underscores). Maybe the functions and variables are standardized on underscores, but if type names aren't consistent that still means the naming scheme is inconsistent.


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