Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

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You can choose only one!

Zero-Point Energy Field Manipulator
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16%
Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device
201
84%
 
Total votes: 238

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Mr. Beck » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:34 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Here's a thought experiment: suppose portals could be attached to weighted storage cubes and that they didn't disappear when the surface moved. What would happen if you put a portalled cube through a portal on the wall?

I'll bet the physics engine would crap itself. Listening to the developer commentaries, they had to put in special code just to have you portal and land on a moving platform (test chamber 15 (yes I am a nerd)). Also, I heard that some pretty strange things can happen if you put a portal underwater with GMod, especially graphics-wise.
Once I was playing with my brother looking over my shoulder, and I fell in that toxic sludge. Without thinking, I looked down at the floor and tried to fire a portal, with the goal of getting out. After I died, I figured out exactly what the implications of making a portal underwater were...ever since then we would say "Don't drain the pool!" whenever we saw sludge and/or thought about portals doing strange things.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby parallax » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:20 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Here's a thought experiment: suppose portals could be attached to weighted storage cubes and that they didn't disappear when the surface moved. What would happen if you put a portalled cube through a portal on the wall?
Well, the storage cube would have to be large enough to accommodate a portal, which would make it too big to fit through a portal. Even if you had a rectangular shape, it would just get stuck partway through the portal.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Xanthir » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:23 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Here's a thought experiment: suppose portals could be attached to weighted storage cubes and that they didn't disappear when the surface moved. What would happen if you put a portalled cube through a portal on the wall?

The universe would explode. Duh.

The real answer: anything at all. Anything beyond the basic, simple cases that Portal already mostly handles are completely up to you. You're making up new physics.

I prefer to just say that portals can't pass through each other. That's consistent with the fact that you can't shoot the portal gun through a portal (unless you *just barely* step through it so that the gun is actually on the other side while your legs are still on solid ground).

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enk wrote:Exactly. If you jump into B, you'll come up thru O. Then you'll fall into O and come up thru B. This repeats forever (at least in the game). Imagine you could dampen this sine wave until you lie still with the two halves of your body (mass wise) pusing against each other.
I've done that several times with cameras and turrets, they always eventually fall over to one side or the other.

It's possible to do to yourself, and you *can* get it so that you equilibriate and stay still. I've done it before by accident.

parallax wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:Here's a thought experiment: suppose portals could be attached to weighted storage cubes and that they didn't disappear when the surface moved. What would happen if you put a portalled cube through a portal on the wall?
Well, the storage cube would have to be large enough to accommodate a portal, which would make it too big to fit through a portal. Even if you had a rectangular shape, it would just get stuck partway through the portal.

You're not imaginative enough. Pop one on a piece of plywood and the other on the floor. Put the smaller end of the plywood through the longer axis of the floor portal. It'll fit just fine. You can always pass an oval through an identically shaped oval without touching the edges together (not counting that degenerate oval, the circle).
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby coppro » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:15 am UTC

rrwoods wrote:Someone from Valve should code that up and make a video. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard; lift the restriction on portals on moving surfaces and do it.
May not be that easy. It's quite possible that the restriction on moving surfaces is due to the particular method they chose for processing portals - perhaps they simply have the portal occupy it's own space, and then monitor the wall so that if it moves, it destroys the portal to prevent portals without surfaces from existing.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby rrwoods » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:30 pm UTC

coppro wrote:
rrwoods wrote:Someone from Valve should code that up and make a video. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard; lift the restriction on portals on moving surfaces and do it.
May not be that easy. It's quite possible that the restriction on moving surfaces is due to the particular method they chose for processing portals - perhaps they simply have the portal occupy it's own space, and then monitor the wall so that if it moves, it destroys the portal to prevent portals without surfaces from existing.

That's true, hadn't thought of that.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Shabooty » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:14 pm UTC

So are we talking normal orange gravity gun, or super blue gravity gun?
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby MotorToad » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:35 pm UTC

Shabooty wrote:So are we talking normal orange gravity gun, or super blue gravity gun?

Looking at the votes, I think it'd have to be the Super Gravity Gun, just to give it a chance! :D
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby phlip » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:20 am UTC

Re: Pushing a portal through another portal.

OK, so say we do it in the way Xanthir mentioned. We put the orange portal on the wall, with the usual orientation, and the blue portal on an oval-shaped piece of wood, which we hold such that the major axis points toward the orange portal ("bottom" first), the minor axis is vertical, and the opening faces left.

Now, as we start shoving the blue portal through the orange portal, the bottom of the blue portal will stick out of the middle of the blue portal. It will be horizontal, opening down (if you stick the blue portal into the orange one "top" first, then it would be facing up. Interestingly, whether you hold the blue portal so it faces left or right would have no effect here). For convenience, I'll call the part of the blue portal that hasn't gone through the orange portal yet (the part we're holding) just "the blue portal", and the part of the blue portal that has gone through the orange portal "the second blue portal".

As we get the blue portal close to halfway through the orange portal, the second blue portal will have stuck out far enough to not fit through the orange portal, and will hit the wall. As you keep pushing forward, you'll feel something lifting the far end of the blue portal (the image of the wall as viewed through the orange portal is moving up, and the far end of the blue portal is resting on it). As the blue portal angles up, the second blue portal will angle towards you. Since the plane of the blue portal is still vertical, the second blue portal will also rotate to match the first blue portal, around the left-right axis (that is, your left and right, not any of the portals').

I'm not sure what will happen after this... the second blue portal is no longer perpendicular to the wall, so I think the forces will try to rotate it around its major axis... which'll do the same to the first blue portal, which'll twist it to be no longer vertical, and then the second blue portal will be sticking out at a strange angle... the 3D visualisation section of my brain is shutting down.

When I get home, I'll mock something up in Blender, so I can try to see what would happen...

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby parallax » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:32 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:
parallax wrote:Well, the storage cube would have to be large enough to accommodate a portal, which would make it too big to fit through a portal. Even if you had a rectangular shape, it would just get stuck partway through the portal.

You're not imaginative enough. Pop one on a piece of plywood and the other on the floor. Put the smaller end of the plywood through the longer axis of the floor portal. It'll fit just fine. You can always pass an oval through an identically shaped oval without touching the edges together (not counting that degenerate oval, the circle).

Even if you had a rectangular shape (read: piece of plywood), it would get stuck partway through the portal.

If you stick the orange portal on the floor and drop a piece of plywood with the blue portal on it, the bottom of the blue portal will come out through the blue portal. This will hit the edge of the orange portal, preventing you from lowering the blue portal any further.

This would almost surely break the game's physics engine. The game already has to make a separate "bubble" of physics around each portal.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby MotorToad » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:54 pm UTC

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W-www-w-ww-want.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Luthen » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:03 am UTC

Portal gun, especially if I can hack it to hold more than two portals open at once. Also it's pwetty.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Ledah » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm UTC

I wonder how far can a portal "shot" go. Imagine getting the calculations done and shoot one to the moon! You could suck all the air out of the earth through it if you weren't careful! :D

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby pyroman » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:11 pm UTC

Portal gun ftw. its just so dam awesome! there are so many cool things that you could do with it. The concept presented by ledah is also intriguing and i have wondered about it myself. Does the portal indeed have infinite range? if so what velocity does a forming portal travel at? imagine if it was near infinity? with a steady enough aim you could go anywhere in the universe in an instant. It would be like star-gate except that you get to choose where you want everything.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Brooklynxman » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:35 pm UTC

I had to choose Portal gun, however it was a close call. I think I had a mangasm the second I discovered with full ammo u can actually pick up a gun and shoot it with the gravity gun.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby MotorToad » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:46 pm UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:I had to choose Portal gun, however it was a close call. I think I had a mangasm the second I discovered with full ammo u can actually pick up a gun and shoot it with the gravity gun.

I have not seen such. Please expound!
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby phlip » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:53 pm UTC

Brooklynxman wrote:I think I had a mangasm the second I discovered with full ammo u can actually pick up a gun and shoot it with the gravity gun.

Huh, I hadn't tried that... I'd done it with ammo crates, and health pickups (how degrading would it be to be killed by being hit in the head with a first-aid kit?), but not entire guns...

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Ledah » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:03 pm UTC

The day I can make a combine blow himself up through clever use of a portal gun when they throw a grenade is when gaming get's as good as it can get in my opinion. I wonder how hard it is to get a job at Valve...

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Firnagzen » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:55 am UTC

phlip wrote:Re: Pushing a portal through another portal.

OK, so say we do it in the way Xanthir mentioned. We put the orange portal on the wall, with the usual orientation, and the blue portal on an oval-shaped piece of wood, which we hold such that the major axis points toward the orange portal ("bottom" first), the minor axis is vertical, and the opening faces left.

Now, as we start shoving the blue portal through the orange portal, the bottom of the blue portal will stick out of the middle of the blue portal. It will be horizontal, opening down (if you stick the blue portal into the orange one "top" first, then it would be facing up. Interestingly, whether you hold the blue portal so it faces left or right would have no effect here). For convenience, I'll call the part of the blue portal that hasn't gone through the orange portal yet (the part we're holding) just "the blue portal", and the part of the blue portal that has gone through the orange portal "the second blue portal".

As we get the blue portal close to halfway through the orange portal, the second blue portal will have stuck out far enough to not fit through the orange portal, and will hit the wall. As you keep pushing forward, you'll feel something lifting the far end of the blue portal (the image of the wall as viewed through the orange portal is moving up, and the far end of the blue portal is resting on it). As the blue portal angles up, the second blue portal will angle towards you. Since the plane of the blue portal is still vertical, the second blue portal will also rotate to match the first blue portal, around the left-right axis (that is, your left and right, not any of the portals').

I'm not sure what will happen after this... the second blue portal is no longer perpendicular to the wall, so I think the forces will try to rotate it around its major axis... which'll do the same to the first blue portal, which'll twist it to be no longer vertical, and then the second blue portal will be sticking out at a strange angle... the 3D visualisation section of my brain is shutting down.

When I get home, I'll mock something up in Blender, so I can try to see what would happen...


Interesting, I worked through this train of thought. I think what would happen is that you end up with the blue portal overlaid on the orange one, and the blue portal is 'hinged' in the middle with an angle asymptotically apporaching 180 degrees.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:28 am UTC

phlip wrote:
Brooklynxman wrote:I think I had a mangasm the second I discovered with full ammo u can actually pick up a gun and shoot it with the gravity gun.

Huh, I hadn't tried that... I'd done it with ammo crates, and health pickups (how degrading would it be to be killed by being hit in the head with a first-aid kit?), but not entire guns...


Yeah it can be done. You just summon the gun towards you with the gravity gun, and if you have full ammo, you won't pick it up, it'll just hold it. Then you can shoot it wherever you like.

That's right, people. It's a gun that shoots guns. :mrgreen:
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Ledah » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:48 am UTC

And that's why guns are dangerous, you never know when you get hit by a high speed rifle.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby MotorToad » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:39 pm UTC

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought that he meant you could fire a gun while holding it with the gravity gun. I was curious how that would work with the "one free bullet" achievement. :)
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:16 pm UTC

MotorToad, you can pull ammo too you with the gravity gun, I discovered if you have full ammo for a gun and try to pull an enemy's dropped gun to you, you pick it up. And then you can launch it. Done on The Orange Box XBOX360.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby TZer0 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:26 pm UTC

Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device is my choice. Why? It includes a weak gravity gun and a more awesome function.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:51 pm UTC

TZer0 wrote:Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device is my choice. Why? It includes a weak gravity gun and a more awesome function.


The thing is, there is almost no way to use the portal gun offensively. With the gravity gun, you can slice enemies in two with a circular saw blade. With a portal gun, your only hope is to drop a heavy object on top of an enemy - a tricky proposition a the best of times.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby MotorToad » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:06 pm UTC

You can drop them from great heights (civil protection doesn't have springy boots), and you can drop grenades on them from great distances (assuming they don't notice the hole in the wall that just popped up behind them). I'd still take the Gravity Gun; I don't have springy boots, either. :(
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Exotria » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:31 pm UTC

Portal gun lets you escape more easily so you don't HAVE to fight. Plus, offensive fighting is what normal guns are for.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Delass » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:33 am UTC

With the portal gun, you could kill people with their own bullets. You could also create two portals above eachother, and drop a rock in, and whenever you need to kill someone just make a portal next to them, and out comes the rock.

Also, you dont need springy boots to survive falls. Jump out of an airplane. As you near the ground, open a portal directly under you, and another one next to it. You fall through the first portal, then fly out the second, but not as high. Repeat the process until you only fly up a short distance, then land on solid ground.

Also, get rich quick. Get a large social security box at a bank, say its for storing a lifesize portrait. Open a portal inside the box. Wait until they close, then open one at your house.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby pancake bunny » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:07 pm UTC

the portal gun because you can make portals and can't you pick stuff up with the portal gun to?
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby Askaris » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:12 pm UTC

To the contrary of most of the posters in this thread, I'd go for the gravity gun. While the portal gun does have some nice shiny features, the gravity gun is more practical for the following reasons:

1) Reliable technology: This is a device that can be held together by duct tape and made out of spare parts, and then still work after repeated submersions, exposure to radiation, Combine energy balls, and God only knows what else. The portal gun had a long list of safety instructions (partly in Spanish), and was mostly confined to a sterile environment. It was also still undergoing testing. Frankly, while whooshing around with portals would be cool, I'd rather not take my chances.

2) Spatial disorientation: The kind of stunts that we can easily pull off in portal would be considerably harder in real life. Trying to deal with the flips and sudden gravity shifts would play hob with your sense of balance, not to mention the lack of an auto righting system, as found in the game. However, being able to pick stuff up and hurl it at other stuff is something we can all accomplish.

3) Possible supercharging: Enough said.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby paledragon64 » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:49 am UTC

Portal gun! Way more fun, but the gravity gun rocks too.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby imontheroof » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:31 am UTC

Handheld portal device, asside from crushing yourself and horribly maiming yourself with miscalculated moves. It could have a financial benefit too.

Imagine, pool of heavy goo, portal at the bottom comes out at the top into a huge wheel. Goo turns wheel that turns generator. Free, non polluting power. If you wanted you could also get people to pay for your free power. Or maybe an engine using the slingshot system in portal to fling yourself into space?

It is really fun thinking like this. It looks kinda heavy though. :(

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby darkspork » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:15 am UTC

imontheroof wrote:Imagine, pool of heavy goo, portal at the bottom comes out at the top into a huge wheel. Goo turns wheel that turns generator. Free, non polluting power. If you wanted you could also get people to pay for your free power. Or maybe an engine using the slingshot system in portal to fling yourself into space?

The portal gun defies conservation of energy. It would be more efficient to drop a large magnet infinitely through a solenoid. The gravity gun defies Newton's third law. Both violate physics easily (although I was nerdy enough to do calculations on the ASHPD that include additional gravitational force fields that would make portals comply. The result contradicts in-game behavior but would be, arguably, much more awesome.) I would probably go with the portal gun because I'm lazy and don't like walking. (Although there is one major inherent safety risk with the portals that does not appear in game: The edge of the portal has the strength of the wall it is attached to and a width of 0, making it the perfect cutting tool. Think about it.)

If I could have ANY physics-defying gun though, it would be the toolgun from gmod. Hoverballs never killed anyone. Poorly made wiremod vehicles would be awesome.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby You, sir, name? » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:23 pm UTC

In terms of awesomeness: The portal gun.
In terms of not getting myself inadvertently killed through some silly mistake: The gravity gun.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby quartrmster007 » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:35 pm UTC

I LOVE the gravity gun, but the portal gun is just so much more fun. And you can use it for more awesome stuff (although that's already been established.)

imontheroof wrote:Or maybe an engine using the slingshot system in portal to fling yourself into space?


Which would, truly, be a lot of fun. Until you hit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_Limit
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby darkspork » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:46 pm UTC

I think it's pretty obvious that the ASHPD, although awesome, would kill anyone who used it. Remember: If at first you don't succeed, you fail.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby quartrmster007 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:38 pm UTC

darkspork wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the ASHPD, although awesome, would kill anyone who used it.


Basically, yeah. But it'd still be awesome. Be able to scratch your own back. That could come in handy.

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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby MotorToad » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:04 am UTC

quartrmster007 wrote:Basically, yeah. But it'd still be awesome. Be able to scratch your own back. That could come in handy.

Yes. I'm certain that's what people would use it for... AND NOTHING ELSE EVER! :mrgreen:
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:31 am UTC

darkspork wrote:
imontheroof wrote:Imagine, pool of heavy goo, portal at the bottom comes out at the top into a huge wheel. Goo turns wheel that turns generator. Free, non polluting power. If you wanted you could also get people to pay for your free power. Or maybe an engine using the slingshot system in portal to fling yourself into space?

The portal gun defies conservation of energy. It would be more efficient to drop a large magnet infinitely through a solenoid. The gravity gun defies Newton's third law. Both violate physics easily (although I was nerdy enough to do calculations on the ASHPD that include additional gravitational force fields that would make portals comply. The result contradicts in-game behavior but would be, arguably, much more awesome.) I would probably go with the portal gun because I'm lazy and don't like walking. (Although there is one major inherent safety risk with the portals that does not appear in game: The edge of the portal has the strength of the wall it is attached to and a width of 0, making it the perfect cutting tool. Think about it.)

If I could have ANY physics-defying gun though, it would be the toolgun from gmod. Hoverballs never killed anyone. Poorly made wiremod vehicles would be awesome.


I think they get around the sharp portal edge thing by having a strong anti-gravitational field around the edges. So as an object approaches the edge of a portal, the repulsive force approaches infinity (whereas it would be a weak force just a few cm away).

Either that, or the wormhole has non-zero length, just small enough to be visually disregarded.
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby BlackMesa » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:37 pm UTC

The gravity gun works on everything. The portal shooter only works on some types of material. who knows how often it would work on real surfaces outside of an apeture science facility?
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Re: Which of Valve's creative guns doyou want?

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:02 pm UTC

BlackMesa wrote:The gravity gun works on everything. The portal shooter only works on some types of material. who knows how often it would work on real surfaces outside of an apeture science facility?


My understanding was that the portal gun worked on anything that wasn't too reflective. So it won't work on metal or glass, but works on pretty much everything else.
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