Borg vs. Zerg

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Roanan
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Roanan » Tue May 20, 2008 12:19 am UTC

well, i suppose the outcome would depend on wether the zerg were led by kerrigan or the overmind. if they were lead by kerrigan, she would be assimilated, and the zerg would lose. if the zerg wer lead by the overmind, then the zerg would win, seeing as how the overmind & cerrabrates (hope i'm spelling it rite :P) are immune to everything except dark templars which the borg do not have access too. i think the batle would play out like this: defilers would be dropped off in overlords, and proceed to plage everything, then cast a dark swarm to cover the hydralisks and zerglings that would drop down next. as soon as the dark swarm fades and all the borg's anti air defense is destroyd, a swarm of mutalisks would fly in and make quick work of their infantry, while gurdians pummel the buildings. a swarm of scourge would be on standby in case of air attack. after the borg defenses have been subdued, a single zergling would jump in and rip the guts out of the borg queen. then four lurkurs would run in and burrow, and proceed to slowly destroy the remaining, scattered borg.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby ++$_ » Tue May 20, 2008 8:26 am UTC

The Borg can't assimilate 400 cracklings all at once. It's just. That. Simple.

Plus, Spawn Broodling on the Borg Queen solves.

Roanan wrote:i think the batle would play out like this: defilers would be dropped off in overlords, and proceed to plage everything, then cast a dark swarm to cover the hydralisks and zerglings that would drop down next. as soon as the dark swarm fades and all the borg's anti air defense is destroyd, a swarm of mutalisks would fly in and make quick work of their infantry, while gurdians pummel the buildings. a swarm of scourge would be on standby in case of air attack. after the borg defenses have been subdued, a single zergling would jump in and rip the guts out of the borg queen. then four lurkurs would run in and burrow, and proceed to slowly destroy the remaining, scattered borg.
Hydras + swarm is fail.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Tue May 20, 2008 2:32 pm UTC

Roanan wrote:well, i suppose the outcome would depend on wether the zerg were led by kerrigan or the overmind. if they were lead by kerrigan, she would be assimilated, and the zerg would lose. if the zerg wer lead by the overmind, then the zerg would win, seeing as how the overmind & cerrabrates (hope i'm spelling it rite :P) are immune to everything except dark templars which the borg do not have access too. i think the batle would play out like this: defilers would be dropped off in overlords, and proceed to plage everything, then cast a dark swarm to cover the hydralisks and zerglings that would drop down next. as soon as the dark swarm fades and all the borg's anti air defense is destroyd, a swarm of mutalisks would fly in and make quick work of their infantry, while gurdians pummel the buildings. a swarm of scourge would be on standby in case of air attack. after the borg defenses have been subdued, a single zergling would jump in and rip the guts out of the borg queen. then four lurkurs would run in and burrow, and proceed to slowly destroy the remaining, scattered borg.


Blowing up a Borg Queen like that is about as effective as blowing up the Overmind with that. As in, not at all.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Tue May 20, 2008 4:32 pm UTC

Roanan wrote:well, i suppose the outcome would depend on wether the zerg were led by kerrigan or the overmind. if they were lead by kerrigan, she would be assimilated, and the zerg would lose. if the zerg wer lead by the overmind, then the zerg would win, seeing as how the overmind & cerrabrates (hope i'm spelling it rite :P) are immune to everything except dark templars which the borg do not have access too. i think the batle would play out like this: defilers would be dropped off in overlords, and proceed to plage everything, then cast a dark swarm to cover the hydralisks and zerglings that would drop down next. as soon as the dark swarm fades and all the borg's anti air defense is destroyd, a swarm of mutalisks would fly in and make quick work of their infantry, while gurdians pummel the buildings. a swarm of scourge would be on standby in case of air attack. after the borg defenses have been subdued, a single zergling would jump in and rip the guts out of the borg queen. then four lurkurs would run in and burrow, and proceed to slowly destroy the remaining, scattered borg.

The borg can assimilate non-human sentient beings too, ya know. like, say, the overmind.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Berengal » Tue May 20, 2008 6:13 pm UTC

Not without dark templar powers they can't. I guess they could assimilate a dark templar first though.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Tue May 20, 2008 6:55 pm UTC

Berengal wrote:Not without dark templar powers they can't. I guess they could assimilate a dark templar first though.

They can't kill the overmind. However, assimilation is not death.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Ankheg » Fri May 23, 2008 12:45 pm UTC

I think it's a matter of possibilityes, and I don't think we truly know all of that about Zergs. For Kerrigan to be one of zerg's it took a long time in a cocoon. And we don't know for sure how exactly zergs assimilating technologies and organic from Starcraft I, we have seen just results. And this depend on strategies, that races will use against each other. I think if Borgs wil get close to Celebrates, and would assimilate them somehow, then it's over for zergs, in another case - Borgs will be overruned ))

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Fri May 23, 2008 1:20 pm UTC

I wonder.

Would Dark Templars be able to kill the Borg Queen, thus sending the collective into disarray?

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Master Gunner » Sun May 25, 2008 2:26 pm UTC

The Borg Queen has been killed at least once (In First Contact) without any apparent harm to the collective in Voyager.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Sun May 25, 2008 6:58 pm UTC

Master Gunner wrote:The Borg Queen has been killed at least once (In First Contact) without any apparent harm to the collective in Voyager.


Yes, but that's "killed". You can do the same thing to the overmind, without actually killing the overmind. However, in star craft the dark templars actually were able to really kill the overmind, at least until a new one formed (and the hive was in huge dissarray in the meantime). I wonder if the same could be done to the borg queen.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Master Gunner » Sun May 25, 2008 10:21 pm UTC

The reason the Dark Templar had that effect on the Zerg overmind was due to their telekinetic powers and dependence, which were biologically based. This gave the Dark Templar the advantage. As the Borg telepathy and hive mind is technologically based, the Dark Templar would have no more advantage than anyone else. It would be like using antibiotics on a computer virus.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby z4lis » Mon May 26, 2008 1:06 am UTC

McCaber wrote:It's obviously the Tyranids.


Indeed, with enough genestealers and 6's, anything can be accomplished.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby zenten » Mon May 26, 2008 1:13 pm UTC

Master Gunner wrote:The reason the Dark Templar had that effect on the Zerg overmind was due to their telekinetic powers and dependence, which were biologically based. This gave the Dark Templar the advantage. As the Borg telepathy and hive mind is technologically based, the Dark Templar would have no more advantage than anyone else. It would be like using antibiotics on a computer virus.


No, it's a combination of technology and biology for the borg.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby mdornfe1 » Tue May 27, 2008 1:15 am UTC

The Internet would assimilate them both.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Ironmon1 » Wed May 28, 2008 1:39 am UTC

I think everyone has missed the point...
All that is being argued over is the name of the resulting hybrid formed when each species assimilated/infests the other, and acquires the best of both worlds.
read: Zerg with 1337 spaceships and tech (faster regen?), Borg with the melee abilities of Zerglings on crack... Ultralisks with shields...defilers with transporters (and you thought they were annoying with range 10...) And Picard thought he had it bad... =P
What shall we call them? Berg? Zorg? I vote Bzerg...(sounds vaguely like berserkers)
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Stay_Puft_marshmallows » Thu May 29, 2008 4:31 am UTC

Ironmon1 wrote:I vote Bzerg...(sounds vaguely like berserkers)


Clearly it'd be "Bzorg," or "Bjork"

Also, I'm game for the theory that a Borg win is really a Borg loss because the Overmind personality, upon assimilation, would become the driving force of the Borg.


As for the only force in any fictional continuity that could defeat the dread Bjork Collective Swarm?

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby odnanref10 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:04 am UTC

Berengal wrote:
Kizyr wrote:
The Reaper wrote:I wonder what would happen with a zerg-tribble crossbreed....? It could eat anything organic... and each zerg egg would make 50 fuzzy zerglings that wirr you into a sense of safety right before they kill you :D

...you've just given them the key to conquering the entire universe. You realize this? KF

Now imagine the borg adapting their nanites to the zerg, assimilating the zergibbles.


Yes its tru but that depends if the zergs heven't assimilated the Species 8472

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby odnanref10 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:20 am UTC

I think the zergs are the ones more obtimal to assimilate the borgs cause of their hightly adaptability to change their DNA in only a few generation to adapt against anything oposing the hive
any way the borgs have the same ability only that they depend on tecnology.
The zergs have an the ability to assimilate anything that is organic so that includes the borgs and the more strange thing is that they can asimilate it when any zerg species eats other organic species, thats why they can't assimilate tecnology
The borgs heve the tecnology and the number on their side and can count on strategy to assimilate the zergs but the problems is that till now they have only assimilated humanoid beings
The zerg in the ohter hand heve been assimilating every single being and as far I know the overming can also see and have the memories of the assimilated race counting they tecnology knowledge
the overmind also created the cerebrates to organise the hive and meke it more efficient the same to the overlords
The Borgs can find a weapon effient to the zergs but the zergs can adapt themselves in some generations wich for the zergs is fast.
The zergs would have problems with the tecnology and if the overmind wasn't destoyed by traition of Kerrigan I'm sure it could have assimilated the terrans
and later the protos
as we know the only weakness of the zergs is not having psi abilities
So each race depends on their avility to assimilate the race that can counter the other as the Zergs Species 8472 and the borgd the Protos

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:36 pm UTC

odnanref10 wrote:I think the zergs are the ones more obtimal to assimilate the borgs cause of their hightly adaptability to change their DNA in only a few generation to adapt against anything oposing the hive
any way the borgs have the same ability only that they depend on tecnology.
The zergs have an the ability to assimilate anything that is organic so that includes the borgs and the more strange thing is that they can asimilate it when any zerg species eats other organic species, thats why they can't assimilate tecnology
The borgs heve the tecnology and the number on their side and can count on strategy to assimilate the zergs but the problems is that till now they have only assimilated humanoid beings
The zerg in the ohter hand heve been assimilating every single being and as far I know the overming can also see and have the memories of the assimilated race counting they tecnology knowledge
the overmind also created the cerebrates to organise the hive and meke it more efficient the same to the overlords
The Borgs can find a weapon effient to the zergs but the zergs can adapt themselves in some generations wich for the zergs is fast.
The zergs would have problems with the tecnology and if the overmind wasn't destoyed by traition of Kerrigan I'm sure it could have assimilated the terrans
and later the protos
as we know the only weakness of the zergs is not having psi abilities
So each race depends on their avility to assimilate the race that can counter the other as the Zergs Species 8472 and the borgd the Protos

The borg can assimilate other species that are non-humanoids, but I'm not sure if they do or not, seeing as how the borg don't deem them useful. The second the borg deem assimilation rather than decimation of the zerg to be a priority, then we get to see who adapts faster, nanites or zerg. I'll give you a hint. One of them is constructed, and doesn't take nearly as much time to figure out how to adapt, and the other depends on genetic manipulation and growing new beings every time....

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Rhapsody in Green » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

Have you guys ever seen Koreans play zerg? No contest!

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby janusx » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:01 pm UTC

The Borg could win simply by sending a probe back in time to assimilate the xelnaga and early zerg. Fight is over before it began and Borg still gets the technology and biology.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby hideki101 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:40 pm UTC

janusx wrote:The Borg could win simply by sending a probe back in time to assimilate the xelnaga and early zerg. Fight is over before it began and Borg still gets the technology and biology.

I really think time travel should be ignored in this decision making process. For one thing, it royally messes up the universes continuity. Also your interpretation of time travel matters too. The Zerg need to be here to have this discussion, so either the Borg didn't go back in time, they did go back in time but failed at changing the timeline, or the Borg did go back in time, did change the timeline, but that event caused the universe to split (via Many Worlds Interpretation) so that in the relevant universe, it would be like nothing did happen in the past to change it. Either way you choose, the Zerg are here to stay.

Back on topic, I am really not sure whether assimilation would work on the Zerg. I read the wiki on it, and it seems that the Borg control minds through a neural transceiver. How would this work on the Overmind, a organism without any spine? Also, Strong immune systems (8472) seem to be able to defeat nanites. I really think that on a species whose evolutionary period is within a matter of years instead of millennia, can survive in space, and flourish on hostile planets, their immune systems would be up to the challenge of defeating assimilation. Zerg can't assimilate Borg due to the technology that permeates drone bodies. So that leaves conventional weaponry.

I wonder how well Star Trek shields can stand projectile and melee attacks. Ranged attacks for Zerg consist of acid spores, broodling parasites, spines, glaive wurms, and ...others I can't think of ATM. (DISCLAIMER: may be outdated when SC II comes out) A lot of these attacks (actually all)are physical and some feature corrosive damage.

Also, there is a scale difference. In the cutscenes from Starcraft, for example, a battlecrusier/carrier is HUGE. There is no possible way ANY marine could take one down from the outside if it was scaled the same in game. Even ingame, there are the same issues. The Amerigo (science vessel) is the center of an installation mission. Outside of the mission, science vessels are shown as roughly 5 times the size of that same marine. So Starcraft is riddled with size differences for gameplay balance reasons, and as such, gives a hard time identifying how much damage each unit would do. For obvious reasons though, Zerg would absolutely dominate any ground-side battles.

In space, though is a different story. A borg cube dwarfs anything that the Zerg have, and can raze a planet by itself. Also they are decentralized, so there are really no weak points on it. here's what the zerg units may be able to do against one:

Overlord: Only use for these would seem to be drop transports. The Zerg don't care how many units they throw away, so If enough ground units make it inside the cube it could hurt the Borg badly
Mutalisk: Glaive wurm. hits multiple targets, but weak. it all depends really on how well the shields will block them. will die en masse, but that's what the zerg are best at; swarming. great annoyers though.
Guardian: Acid spores. Guardians are ATG units, but on a spacecraft that's 3 km across, the surface of it starts to look like ground. I don't really know how big it is, but if the Shakuras cutscene from Brood War is any indication, there is one blazing lot of them. Once through the shields, acid spores should continually dissolve the surface that they landed on. these are the units that would be able to take down the cube if able. completely vulnerable to fire though.(note: Currently, SCII Swarm guardians unleash broodlings whenever they hit something. Though they only live a short while, that would be one blazing infestation the Borg would have to fight)
Devourer:Acid spores. ATA unit, but really, anything can be ATG; aim down. See the description for guardian.
Scourge:Suicidal little buggers. Bang. Ow. If they can get through shields, hundreds of these things will probably take a cube down, and I'll bet there are more than just hundreds. Fast and maneuverable, these guys can get in close, due to the ST penchant for larger ships with heavier weapons.
Queen:Really, the only use for these would be to spawn broodlings. Maybe if they get in close enough to target individual Borg drones they can be of use, but that likely won't happen.
SCIIUnit:Corruptor:this likely falls under the assimilation heading above, But it has been shown to corrupt mechanical units. If enough of them were to target a cube, it may or may not be corrupted. If it is, then that will be one hell of a plus to the Zerg; they get a 3 km wide stationary turret. I think that corruption may work because the commands for the corruption are a lot more simple than operating a cube; shoot at anything that comes near.

As i see it, the Borg may need more than two cubes to take out a Zerg-infested planet, and if the shields don't work like they will probably need more. Especially if the Corruptor works like it does in the game.

Stang, this is the most I think I've ever written for a non-school assignment.
EDIT: Disclaimer: I am nowhere near the expert in Star Trek or Starcraft, Actually, I've only seen a few episodes of Trek. Most of this information I got on Star Trek comes from the posts above, in other threads (mostly this one) and the Star Trek Wiki. All info on Starcraft is from playing the game, and the internet (mostly the Starcraft Wiki and the Starcraft II Armory and official sites.

Changed the color of two short bits from red to blue. Red is reserved for mods.
EDIT II: Sorry, I just felt I needed some emphasis on the those units and I totally forgot that red is reserved. I'll keep it in mind next time.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Alomax » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:03 am UTC

I think it all boils down to this : Zerg adapt at the speed of genetics. Borg adapt at the speed of electrons. GG zerg.
I agree Borg would most likely lose any initial confrontation in any kind of close quarters. Once they get some basic information though, the ranged energy weapons will be brought out. And to assimilate Zerg, do you really have to be close up? We've never seen it, but I suspect Borg could seed an entire atmosphere with nanites from orbit and wait till every organic organism is classified and cataloged.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby hideki101 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:41 pm UTC

I have a question. Is it the Borg vs. the Zerg or the borg vs. the Starcraft universe? Because if it is only the zerg vs the borg, then the borg can't have assimilated protoss. Actually, reading the lore, I don't think that protoss can be assimilated anyway.

Alomax wrote:I think it all boils down to this : Zerg adapt at the speed of genetics. Borg adapt at the speed of electrons. GG zerg.
I agree Borg would most likely lose any initial confrontation in any kind of close quarters. Once they get some basic information though, the ranged energy weapons will be brought out. And to assimilate Zerg, do you really have to be close up? We've never seen it, but I suspect Borg could seed an entire atmosphere with nanites from orbit and wait till every organic organism is classified and cataloged.


The problem is that we don't really know how many weapons a cube has. It could be as few as...well few, or the whole thing could be one giant laser array. In any case, my thought would be that the zerg would just swarm en masse with no regard for their own. They may take heavy casualties, but they will take down anything that doesn't have a defense against melee and projectile attacks. I really think you are overestimating the borg adaptive process.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Alomax » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:53 am UTC

hideki101 wrote: I really think you are overestimating the borg adaptive process.


Sadly I probably am. At least in terms of how their race was presented in later series (voyag-zomgisthatjeriryan?). At first blush the Borg where a devastatingly efficient, intelligent malevolence. And every episode after that proceeded to bind more and more chains onto the concept until it was a whimpering husk of what it was originally. The collective intelligence and experience of 1 million million creatures from thousands of species across millenia, being outwitted by a group of humans? Who can barely crawl their way out of their own gravity well? Makes for GREAT drama, but I really wished they had played it out so so differently.
</rant>

Anyways, I don't think Borg would really have to adapt much. I don't think the Zerg have any kind of real large-scale weaponry (spaceship vs spaceship), and no atomic-level equivalent. We might speculate that the Zerg could rapidly multiply and match the borg in numbers, but splash damage rules small disposable units. :)
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Mobius » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

Anyways, I don't think Borg would really have to adapt much. I don't think the Zerg have any kind of real large-scale weaponry (spaceship vs spaceship), and no atomic-level equivalent.


Zerg space combat tactics probably rely on the same principles as their ground ones, i.e. massive and overwhelming numbers of individually weak (relatively) creatures.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Berengal » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:06 pm UTC

Mobius wrote:massive and overwhelming numbers of individually weak (relatively) creatures.

I was just about to write something like "zergs aren't weak. It's just that the terran and protos strategies are basically 'have stronger units than the zergs'." But then I noticed the 'relatively'.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Account20151023 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:27 pm UTC

Zergs rush. And I like the Russians.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:10 am UTC

You're all wrong. The ultimate winners of any such battle would inevitably be the Daleks.

Spoiler:
Exterminate.jpg
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Ivan227 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:13 am UTC

assuming that assimilation in either direction is impossible, it would all hinge on the length of time that the conflict lasted. if it was a short and the borg managed to find and attack all the zerg planets in a brief amount of time then my money is on the borg. they are at a far, far higher energy use:individual ratio then the zerg and are also far more numerous. but if it is a longer war and the borg don't hit all the zerg worlds quickly, then my money is on the zerg. The Zerg simply spread far faster then the borg can hope to match. they become an overwhelming threat within hours of landing one or two drones on a planet and within a week or so can have dominated the entire biosphere. even the biggest zerg can go from larva to combat-ready maturity in less time then it takes for a battle cruiser to come down from orbit. If the zerg switch priorities from fighting the terran/protoss/borg and focus on hiding and infesting as many planets as possible, then they can quickly outnumber the borg by really really a lot. there should be enough genetic material in the worlds the zerg flee to that they can close a lot of the energy use gap between themselves and the borg. they probably won't reach parity, but then, they dont need to. kekekeke

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby EvanED » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:11 pm UTC

In other words, the Borg is really good at micro but will be easily out-macroed by the Zerg? ;-)

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby LittleKey » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:52 pm UTC

Definitely the Borg, without a doubt. Simple reason?: they're totally awesome.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Arnwulf » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:26 am UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:You're all wrong. The ultimate winners of any such battle would inevitably be the Daleks.

Spoiler:
Exterminate.jpg



agree

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Zalzidrax » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:48 am UTC

I think the both merge into one ungodly unstoppable killing force is probably the correct answer--it won't be clear who wins, but everybody else loses.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Firnagzen » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:04 am UTC

Alomax wrote:I think it all boils down to this : Zerg adapt at the speed of genetics. Borg adapt at the speed of electrons. GG zerg.


Actually no. The Zerg can adapt within a single generation- And if the Zerg infest an entire planet, it's just as long as Kerrigan needs to think about what to add. So that's more or less even.

And the thing is, I beg to disagree that the zerg would lose to the borg cubes- Sure, the cubes are powerful. But the Zerg can spawn enough scourges, easily, to swamp the cubes. I'm talking about the cubes disappearing under an uber swarm. Sure, you can incinerate a few million, but unless every single square millimeter of surface on the cube is covered with individually targetting weapons, the cube is going to lose. And there's plenty more scourges.

Also, I think we can assume that the zerg do have some kind of mothballed space to space creatures, considering that they took out the Xel' Naga. Even granting that the Xel' Naga were taken off guard, that's a pretty good feat. I mean, they wiped out an entire super high technological species in one single, massive, attack.

Besides. Kerrigan is hot. Not so the borg queen. Zerg wins on coolness.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Commodore » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:47 pm UTC

Ah, but when a Beast cruise missile manages to hit a Cube, it's game over for all parties involved.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby The Reaper » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:01 am UTC

Firnagzen wrote:
Alomax wrote:I think it all boils down to this : Zerg adapt at the speed of genetics. Borg adapt at the speed of electrons. GG zerg.


Actually no. The Zerg can adapt within a single generation- And if the Zerg infest an entire planet, it's just as long as Kerrigan needs to think about what to add. So that's more or less even.

And the thing is, I beg to disagree that the zerg would lose to the borg cubes- Sure, the cubes are powerful. But the Zerg can spawn enough scourges, easily, to swamp the cubes. I'm talking about the cubes disappearing under an uber swarm. Sure, you can incinerate a few million, but unless every single square millimeter of surface on the cube is covered with individually targetting weapons, the cube is going to lose. And there's plenty more scourges.

Also, I think we can assume that the zerg do have some kind of mothballed space to space creatures, considering that they took out the Xel' Naga. Even granting that the Xel' Naga were taken off guard, that's a pretty good feat. I mean, they wiped out an entire super high technological species in one single, massive, attack.

Besides. Kerrigan is hot. Not so the borg queen. Zerg wins on coolness.

I find cyborgs sexier than insect/human crossbreeds. And there's as many borg cubes as there are scourges. A cube might loses, but 1:1 cubes win.

Also, that's what the Xel'Naga get for having their entire species in one small spaceship. Eggs in a basket, anyone? And being taken off-guard tends to mean you get raped before you realize what's happening.

OH and the borg could easily make a cube that has every square millimeter of it covered with individually targeting weapons. Damn those crazy borg.

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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby hideki101 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:53 am UTC

The Reaper wrote:
Firnagzen wrote:
Alomax wrote:I think it all boils down to this : Zerg adapt at the speed of genetics. Borg adapt at the speed of electrons. GG zerg.


Actually no. The Zerg can adapt within a single generation- And if the Zerg infest an entire planet, it's just as long as Kerrigan needs to think about what to add. So that's more or less even.

And the thing is, I beg to disagree that the zerg would lose to the borg cubes- Sure, the cubes are powerful. But the Zerg can spawn enough scourges, easily, to swamp the cubes. I'm talking about the cubes disappearing under an uber swarm. Sure, you can incinerate a few million, but unless every single square millimeter of surface on the cube is covered with individually targeting weapons, the cube is going to lose. And there's plenty more scourges.

Also, I think we can assume that the zerg do have some kind of mothballed space to space creatures, considering that they took out the Xel' Naga. Even granting that the Xel' Naga were taken off guard, that's a pretty good feat. I mean, they wiped out an entire super high technological species in one single, massive, attack.

Besides. Kerrigan is hot. Not so the borg queen. Zerg wins on coolness.

I find cyborgs sexier than insect/human crossbreeds. And there's as many borg cubes as there are scourges. A cube might loses, but 1:1 cubes win.

Also, that's what the Xel'Naga get for having their entire species in one small spaceship. Eggs in a basket, anyone? And being taken off-guard tends to mean you get raped before you realize what's happening.

OH and the borg could easily make a cube that has every square millimeter of it covered with individually targeting weapons. Damn those crazy borg.

Question:
How the hell will you find enough raw material to build enough cubes to match the aerial zerg units 1:1? You'd need considerably more resources than a single system, hell maybe even multiple star systems could hold. And then the borg would need to concentrate on resource gathering and constructing, not assimilating, which they haven't shown really all that much proficiency in doing.

Also, it's pretty much impossible to create anything covered with that much weaponry, heat buildup would melt the weapons, being so densely packed, I can't think of any cooling mechanism that would be able to disperse the energy efficiently enough to cool off the guns if you are doing an omnisalvo, which you are going to need to use to destroy that many scourge. Also, power is a huge limitation. I don't know really any source of power that would be able to power 54 square kilometers worth of artillery. Not to mention the structural limitations of a cube seem to be that the cube would have to be remotely piloted, and completely dedicated to weaponry. No room at all for any crew, no docking/assimilation bays, no teleporters.

By the way, who said the Xel' Naga were all in one ship when the Zerg wiped them out? As I seem to recall, the Xel'Naga were more of a race of scientists, rather than fighters. Both of their creations turned on them (first the Protoss, then after that, they created the Zerg. The Zerg virtually wiped out the species due to the fact that they were off their collective guards).
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Savvycow » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:17 am UTC

I know this has already been said, but the Zerg would just take in the Borg... like how they're able to take over the command centers in Starcraft.

Plus, Borg don't have Ultralisks. QED.
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Re: Borg vs. Zerg

Postby Wulf » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:05 pm UTC

Zerg advantages
    Hand to hand combat advantage
      The Borg are horrible at combat, other than shields and energy weapons. They are slow moving, almost zombie like in their physical attacks. The Borg have impressive physical strength, but the Zerg have strength, incredible speed, and built in melee weapons. The Borg are personnel shields are designed to stop energy weapons only, even projectile weapons get through. The Zerg rarely use energy weapons, using projectiles or melee attacks. Certain Zerg tactics like burrowing for surprise attacks would probably not work due to the Borg sensors.
    Queens
      The Queen's combat abilities are going to be devastating to the Borg. Beginning with the ability to turn a Borg drone into multiple broodlings, a queen can remove the numeric advantage of any Borg combat force. More important, if a queen could infect a Borg cube then the Zerg would gain the same space abilities as the Borg. A transporter (remember that borg transporters can go through shields) would give the Zerg a massive tactical advantage. Letting the Zerg put their creatures into melee combat, where they have the advantage.
    Production
      The Zerg can grow fully functional soldiers from raw materials very quickly. The Borg can only assimilate new creatures as they find them. This is assuming that the Borg baby seen in TNG was found, and then to be grown at a normal rate. The debatable possibility of Zerg being assimilated might give the Borg access to some increased numbers, but my hypothesis is that given equal starting numbers/territory ("man for man") the Zerg will outproduce the Borg.

    Psionics
      The Zerg have some powerful psionics, especially Kerigan and the Overmind. While star trek has shown that some people have psionic abilities, betazoids, vulcans, and other more powerful telepaths, there is no evidence of the Borg having used any of these. There is also no evidence of psionics being useful against the Borg. Without any evidence, this is just a debate without hope of conclusion. I could see psionics being a powerful weapon able to turn Borg drones from afar, or just making the Zerg immune to assimilation, or having no effect in this conflict at all. We just don't know.
    Perceived threat level
      This would probably be the deciding factor. The Borg have no desire to assimilate organic technology, so the Zerg are not a priority assimilation. Without energy weapons and shields, the Borg would not perceive the Zerg as a threat. It is very possible that that the Borg would ignore (at least as much as the zerg ignore natural predators) the Zerg until coming under attack. The Zerg on the other hand would see the Borg as the ultimate threat, possibly giving the Zerg time to come up with a workable stratagem at the very least giving the Zerg a first strike opportunity.

Borg Advantages
    Space Combat
      As far as we can see, the Zerg have nothing that can get in a punching match with a Borg ship and win. While the Zerg do have some space combat capabilities (they defeated the protoss and terran space ships), the Borg ships have tractor beams, high power energy weapons that can cut cleanly through the Enterprise's hull, and the firepower and defenses to take on large fleets in single encounter. The Zerg's only space combat strategies, in my mind at least, would be to try to capture a smaller vessel first and then use transporters to send troops to where they have the advantage, or to simply swarm the Borg cube from all sides accepting massive losses in exchange for getting inside where the Zerg can do damage. Even if they could take a cube intact (meaning before the Borg self destruct their ship), it is possible that the Zerg would have trouble with the technology, and also that the Borg would retain some ability to manipulate the ship's systems at a key moment.
    Destroct-o-planet-surface, or death-from-high-orbit
      The Borg easily have the ability (since the enterprise could do the same) to fire an energy weapon into and through a planet to the core. Doing this a few times in selected spots would cause massive earthquakes and volcanic eruptions creating a lava lake for a time. This could be used on any Zerg planet with minimal risk to the Borg cube. Or rather than anything so destructive, the Borg could simply bombard Zerg hives from orbit.
    Fleet Size
      If Voyager is held to be cannon (much to my regret) the Borg have a huge fleet. While I would think that the Zerg have/could quickly create a larger army, the Borg initially have an numerical advantage in spacecraft.


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So in my opinion it depends on who takes first action, and if the Zerg can take control of a working ship with transporter. I see two possible scenarios (discounting the psionics). It is possible for the Borg to win using tactics (such as transporting bombs onto enemy ships through their shields) not seen in Star Trek, but since they weren't used against the federation I won't assume that the Borg would use them here.

1.) The Borg recognize the Zerg for the threat they are, and destroy them from orbit. Borg win

2.) The Borg ignore the Zerg worlds for not having technology. The Zerg swarm a Borg Scoutship (or possibly a cube) and infect (take it over) it with a queen. The Zerg begin a process of transporting their troops unto cubes, infecting them, and building a Zerg hive in the Cube. The Borg update their drones to deal with the Zerg hand to claw combat, but it is too little to late. The Zerg chase down the Borg in their own ships and infect or destroy them. Kerrigan kills the Borg queen and uses her parts for an upgrade. Zerg win.

Simply because it seems more entertaining, I like option 2.


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