Subsilver versus Prosilver

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Master Gunner
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Master Gunner » Thu May 08, 2008 12:57 am UTC

With the subsilver math greasemonkey script, I really see no advantage to prosilver. Subsilver looks better imo, and has a much more streamlined interface.


(Also, as soon as I get crossfire working properly, I can hook up a third monitor I have waiting, and the tv that's also in my basement).

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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby 1337geek » Thu May 08, 2008 6:23 am UTC

Subsilver fits very well with the main xkcd site. Prosilver does just the opposite. That's all there is to it. Plus, it's harder to tell, at least for me, where some posts begin and end on Prosilver, especially when people quote each other and have large signatures.

Maybe some people like it, but personally I think changing the default theme was a bad idea. And when it happened (back in January), I made a thread for the purpose of this very discussion. Not sure why this other thread came about, as I just now noticed it.

Original: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17220
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Master Gunner » Thu May 08, 2008 9:56 pm UTC

It was suggested to make a new topic here (a move might have made more sense, but I think that most of that thread actually belonged in SF/I, I might re-read it later) as the topic in SF/I is more suited to the implementation of Prosilver, and to talk about how it might be improved or upgraded. This thread is more about actually discussing Subsilver and Prosilver, and how they compare to each other, thus is in religious wars, as some people take their forum style religiously.

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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby mosc » Thu May 08, 2008 10:08 pm UTC

I just tried prosilver for like 5 minutes and I went fucking nuts so I switched back. Wow, you guys are PSYCHO to use that crap.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Xanthir » Sat May 10, 2008 1:53 am UTC

Nimz wrote:
Xanthir wrote:Edit: Also, what did you want a background on? You can set a background on whatever you want, and as long as it's 'behind' the posts it won't cover up their background (where behind is generally defined as "an ancestor of in the html structure")
Response, spoilered for length
Spoiler:
Okay, here are some bits of screenshots that illustrate what my problem is:
NObackground.jpg
Adjacent posts have different background colors. Cool! But I don't want the background behind them to be white, so I tried making its color #bcd:
backgroundINfront.jpg
As you can see, the main background color covered up most of the backgrounds that used to separate posts. this happens whether I have

Code: Select all

* { background: #bcd !important;}

.post.bg1 { background-color: #def !important; }
.post.bg2 { background-color: #eef !important; }
or

Code: Select all

.post.bg1 { background-color: #def !important; }
.post.bg2 { background-color: #eef !important; }

* { background: #bcd !important;}

Edit: found a post that has prosilver width borken... on text.

Your issue is that your 'background' background selector isn't doing what you think it is. You want it to apply a third color to the overall background that the posts lie on. However, the * selector matches *everything*. That includes the elements *inside* the posts, which previously had a none (transparent) background. That's why you only see the post color on a small bar to the left - that's the only place where no other element overlaps the .post element itself.

Keep the * rule with a background:none. Add your special color to a body rule. That *just* matches the actual far background that everything lies on top of. Note: several things (like the various buttons lying around) sit on top of the body, and so you'll see the body's background color through them. This may not be attractive. You may wish to manually target those and give them a background color as well. Generally an "input, button" selector should work.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Nimz » Sat May 10, 2008 10:36 am UTC

Ah. Okay. Something like:

Code: Select all

* { background: none !important; }

body { background: #bcd !important; }
I spent hours trying to figure that out. :oops: I thought I had tried something like that earlier, but maybe I just didn't hit refresh. When I have a few more hours to set aside, I'll try to figure out how to make the quote boxes different colors. Then I'll try to figure out what you mean by "input, button" selector. Since the body's background covers up the actual buttons, text links are all that's left of them. The boxes for inserting text (like the box I'm typing in right now) take on the body color, so that might be worth taking care of at some later date.

It should be noted (as I have noted in other places) that in the thread that this thread came from, someone came up with a greasemonkey script that allows subsilver users to view the pretty LaTeX. I'm not using the greasemonkey hack, as I'm dabbling into stylish hackishness already, and I don't want to run too many experiments at the same time. Plus, davean's response makes me worry that subsilver is not just deprecated, but in fact moribund. Making prosilver as pretty as subsilver seems a bit more prudent in the long run than making subsilver as functional as prosilver.

Amnesiasoft wrote:
Nimz wrote:Funny. Prosilver + IE does something similar to subsilver on that wide post in that it widens the individual post.

I don't know what version of IE you are using, but 8 treats it exactly the same as Opera, Firefox, and Safari.
I don't know what version of IE I was using, either - I'm not going to be on that computer again for probably at least a week. But it was a much, much smaller screen, which may have had something to do with it. I could check to see if that's what happens in the other browsers at narrower width than full-screen, but I'm too busy enjoying subsilver right now. :mrgreen: .
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Xanthir » Mon May 12, 2008 4:26 pm UTC

Nimz wrote:I'll try to figure out how to make the quote boxes different colors.

Easy enough. The issue is that you have to manually target the nesting levels; there's nothing in CSS right now that lets you alternate with nested levels. You'll have something like this:

Code: Select all

blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote {
background: #xxx;
}
blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote {
background: #yyy;
}

That'll target even and odd nesting levels with different backgrounds.

Nimz wrote:Then I'll try to figure out what you mean by "input, button" selector.

You'll want to give input and button elements a background of their own, so you need to target them. You can use the same rule on multiple targets by using a comma-separated list of selectors. You see this in the code above - I chain together three different selectors in each of those rules so I don't have to repeat the background statement over and over again. Otherwise it would look like this:

Code: Select all

blockquote {
background: #xxx;
}

blockquote blockquote blockquote {
background: #xxx;
}

blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote {
background: #xxx;
}

...

Which is clearly retarded and long.

(Quick lesson - putting commas between words means you're starting a new selector. Spaces, though, are just the syntax for the descendant selector. Frex, in the code above, I'm targeting blockquotes, blockquotes contained within blockquotes contained within blockquotes, and blockquotes contained within blockquotes contained within blockquotes contained within blockquotes contained within blockquotes for a particular background. That's a really easy way to target specific elements in the page - if the element itself doesn't have something unique, just move up the chain until you find something that *can* be uniquely targeted, then descend down until you hit the correct element.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Nimz » Wed May 14, 2008 1:33 pm UTC

Okay, my stylish scripting has improved to where I can make the fora look even gayer than prosilver - it's more colorful than a fruit salad. Right now I'm only trying to identify stuf; later on I can make the colors work better. There is one set of things that I'm having a hard time identifying, though. When the mouse hovers over certain things, the colors change. How do I select what the color changes to? E.g. the text and outline of the Submit button glow red when I hover over it. But what if I want it to glow green, for instance?

By the way, thanks to your help, I've been able to make the input boxes and (most) buttons white instead of background color.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Xanthir » Wed May 14, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Nimz wrote:Okay, my stylish scripting has improved to where I can make the fora look even gayer than prosilver - it's more colorful than a fruit salad. Right now I'm only trying to identify stuf; later on I can make the colors work better. There is one set of things that I'm having a hard time identifying, though. When the mouse hovers over certain things, the colors change. How do I select what the color changes to? E.g. the text and outline of the Submit button glow red when I hover over it. But what if I want it to glow green, for instance?

You want the :hover selector. Use it like this:

Code: Select all

input[value="Submit"]:hover {
color: green !important;
border-color: green !important;
}


That'll target only the submit button, and only when you hover over it.

Have you installed Firebug yet? That helps a ton with identifying things. You just right click on what you want, hit "Inspect Element", and it brings up the full page source tree with the element you selected highlighted so you can immediately identify what you need to use in your selector. It also gives you both the current computed styles (the end result of all rules that are applied to it) and a rundown of all the individual style rules that are applying to the element, and where they came from. It's absolutely wonderful.

Nimz wrote:By the way, thanks to your help, I've been able to make the input boxes and (most) buttons white instead of background color.

You're more than welcome. Remember, Stylish is just CSS, so a lot of questions can be answered by a simple google search with "css" in your search terms. Specific resources include w3c and htmldog, but you can get a lot of worthwhile info out of blog posts.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Nimz » Thu May 15, 2008 5:21 am UTC

Xanthir wrote:Have you installed Firebug yet? That helps a ton with identifying things. You just right click on what you want, hit "Inspect Element", and it brings up the full page source tree with the element you selected highlighted so you can immediately identify what you need to use in your selector. It also gives you both the current computed styles (the end result of all rules that are applied to it) and a rundown of all the individual style rules that are applying to the element, and where they came from. It's absolutely wonderful.

Yeah, I've been using Firebug - once I finally figured out how to interpret some of the vast amount of info it gives you access to, I turned the fora into a gaudy watercolor. I couldn't find anything related to hover when I tried inspecting elements, so ... Actually, I was looking for the color tags that had the hovering color, but now that I looked for the word "hover" I can't see it anywhere, either. With what you've said already, I should be able to go a long way toward making prosilver look more like subsilver or better if I'm lucky.

Well, scratch what I said about not being able to find :hover anywhere - I just figured something out while trying to put the smilies to the left of the message-box: I can look at all of style.php, and there it is. It would have made alot of things so much simpler if I had found that at the get-go. Thanks again for all the help. I can probably now reverse engineer the answers to the rest of my questions when they come up.

Edit (and going back to the actual topic of the thread): it seems subsilver is actually more robust to extreme situations like insanely large quote pyramids. I tried all three skins (5, if you count that I tried both prosilvers with and without stylish tweakage) in a thread that contained large quote pyramids, and only subsilver handled the whole mess like a pro. Therefore subsilver is better, and moreso in extreme cases. QED. * waits for prosilver to vanish in a puff of logic *

Edit 2: Things are starting to look more reasonable now. Admittedly I got a bit carried away with the blockquoten, and there's stuff in there that's redundant, but here (spoilered) is what I have for my stylish script:
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

@-moz-document domain(forums.xkcd.com) {
.corners-top, page-body > ul, #page-body > p, #page-body > h3, form#jumpbox
{ display: none !important; }

code, .attach-image { max-height: none !important; }
* { max-width: none !important; }

.profile-icons * { display: inline !important; }
.profile-icons > li { width: 90px !important; }

* { background: none !important; }

body { background: #eef !important; }
.pagination span strong { color: black !important; }

.headerbar, th a:link, #search-box a:visited, .navbg a:visited, .forumbg .header a:visited, th a:visited { color: black !important; }

fieldset { background: none !important; }

input:hover, a:hover { color: #2E8B57 !important; border-color: #2E8B57 !important; }

textarea, select, element.style input, .inputbox, #tabs a span, fieldset.submit-buttons input, a.button1, a.button2, input.button1, input.button2, input.button3, #search-box input, #format-buttons input, #format-buttons select, fieldset.display-options a { background: white !important; }

.error { color: #c00 !important; }

#smiley-box, fieldset.fields1, h2, .row .pagination span a, li.pagination span a, .pagination span a, .pagination span a:link, .pagination span a:visited, .pagination span a:active, .pagination span strong, fieldset.polls { background: none !important; }

fieldset.polls dd div, h1 a { color: #57e !important; }

fieldset.submit-buttons, fieldset.display-options, fieldset.quick-login { background: #eef !important; }

ul.navlinks { background: #bff !important; }

li.header { background: #008 !important; }

dl.codebox { background: #ffc !important; }
.post.bg1 { background-color: #def !important; }
.post.bg2 { background-color: #E0E0FF !important; }

blockquote { border-color: #fbb !important; }

blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote { background: #bde !important; }

blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote { background: #ced !important; }

blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote, blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote blockquote { background: white !important; }

#smiley-box { float: left !important; width: 12.5% !important; }
#message-box { float: right !important; width: 85% !important; }
fieldset.field1 div { padding-right: 27px !important; margin-right: 7px !important; }
fieldset.field1 { padding-right: 7px !important; }

.postbody { width: 82% !important; }
.postprofile { width: 15% !important; }





dl.icon { border-left: thick solid blue !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_moved.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid black !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_read_hot_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/announce_read_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_read_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid deepskyblue !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_unread_hot.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_unread.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/forum_unread.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid orange !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/forum_unread_subforum.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_unread_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/announce_unread_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick double orange !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_unread_hot_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_unread_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/announce_unread_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid yellow !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/announce_read_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"],
dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/topic_read_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"], dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/forum_read_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick double blue !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/sticky_unread.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid #8fa !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/sticky_unread_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick double #8fa !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/sticky_unread_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid #8aa !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/sticky_read.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid #497 !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/sticky_read_locked.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick double #497 !important; }

dl.icon[style="background-image: url(./styles/prosilver/imageset/sticky_read_mine.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat;"]
{ border-left: thick solid #477 !important; }

}
Some of the redundant stuff is background: none on a bunch of stuff that, if I do want to change the color of, I want them all to change the same way. It isn't terribly well organised, as I've put function over form so far. And there are still some bugs to be worked out (notably with Font colour), but it's getting better.

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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Xbehave » Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm UTC

I didnt think i could have an opinion on this, but then i found a bug on the forums and browsed them while not logged in and lets just say i want to kill some flash developers who like blue :wink:

edit: Ive recently seen some bugs on xkcd forums on subsilver and the a response was to use the vomit inducing theme instead :(
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Xanthir » Thu May 15, 2008 11:18 pm UTC

Nimz: Upload that to userstyles.org. I don't want to go to the effort of copy-pasting that in myself, but I'll gladly pull it from userstyles. ^_^ Plus, it lets other people use it more easily.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:03 am UTC

I like the layout of prosilver_left with the tabbed User CP, but it's painful to look at so I use subsilver. Agree with the OP 100%.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:05 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
Master Gunner wrote:If it makes you feel any better, he's far from the best here. I have two.

Oh, who said I only have one monitor? (1x1920x1200, 2x2048x1536*)

*not that I ever use either one, and it requires hacks to get that high

And more on topic: Prosilver rocks!


I'm struggling to use both of my 1920x1200+1280x1024 for anything meaningful. I never use the the horizontal screen space that is over a meter away, and I feel like I need binoculars to see what's going on in that part of my secondary screen.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Xeio » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:29 am UTC

I vote for the default, since I've never bothered changing the setup (I have no idea what I'm using, but it's the default).

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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby Robert'); DROP TABLE *; » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:01 am UTC

The default is prosilver, IIRC.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:55 pm UTC

It used to be subsilver, though, such as when Xeio begain.
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Re: Subsilver versus Prosilver

Postby floomby » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:30 pm UTC

Prosilver for me. I actually think the avatars on the right work quite well and the color scheme is also better.
It has a sleek feel about it :D
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