Halo vs Star Wars

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Znath
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Znath » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:00 am UTC

It's an odd question... who would win or who's better... but I think either way the answer is Star Wars.

The technology is so vastly far apart it's not even comparable.

Halo, despite it's place setting, has 21st century weaponry. Cased bullets, "power armor" from 2030. Even with the alien weapons and everything like that, the Empire alone has better stuff backing it.

I don't know how you'd make it a "fair fight" or anything like that though. Since the whole 'star wars universe' and all that every single character on the show is almost from their own planet of some elaborately designed species with unique technology.

But if you take it down to a planet vs planet scale. Still Star Wars would win. Even the cruddy technology everyone has like plasma blasters and such, is far beyond the halo tech. Even like... Earth vs Tatooine would be a tough fight, just cause everyone and their dog (almost literally) has a space ship, lasers,blasters you name it... It's too big a gap in technology and scale to really easily compare.

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Ianto
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Ianto » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:23 pm UTC

not true. tatooine is basically the africa of the star wars universe. all it has is slave and moisture farmers and the odd space pirate. it would lose against earth. and i think high charity could whip quite a few planty butts.
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Xbehave » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:42 am UTC

Ianto wrote:not true. tatooine is basically the africa of the star wars universe. all it has is slave and moisture farmers and the odd space pirate. it would lose against earth. and i think high charity could whip quite a few planty butts.

earth = projectile based weapons, even tatooine has laser based tech. Don't know how this got to page3.
The Halos are pretty lame compared to imperial fleets, they can wipe out life on one planet at a time, big woop. The DeathStar destory's the planet!
The empire vs the covenant on ground might be a fair fight, but anything else will be won by star wars hands down.

but lets not forget the flood from halo 1.. (Best level ever)

Well even assuming that Halo died when it was still cool (i mean halo1 ofc, i mean no shields WTF and playing as the enemy is just not cool), the flood are a pretty generic zombie race, they do not strike me as particularly original or particularly powerful. Just because some noob built death rings instead of figuring out a way to kill them safely, doesn't make them god like (e.g If i pwned you so hard on halo1 you unplugged the console, it doesn't make me unstoppable, it just makes you a noob).

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby BlackSails » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:47 am UTC

Xbehave wrote:The Halos are pretty lame compared to imperial fleets, they can wipe out life on one planet at a time, big woop. The DeathStar destory's the planet!


No, the halos wipe out life 1 galaxy at a time. At least when they all fire in sync. Thats the one bit of technology that star wars cant match.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby OOPMan » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:51 am UTC

Do Halos wipe out all life, or just large life?
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby phlip » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:54 am UTC

If I remember rightly, it's something like "all sentient life", or "all life sufficiently advanced to host the Flood", or something. It's been a while since I played the first Halo...

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby BlackSails » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:02 pm UTC

phlip wrote:If I remember rightly, it's something like "all sentient life", or "all life sufficiently advanced to host the Flood", or something. It's been a while since I played the first Halo...


I also think it was something like that. The point was to deprive the flood of potential hosts, not to sterilize the galaxy.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby campbell90 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:28 am UTC

Spoiler:
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby jahwn lemonjello » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:56 pm UTC

The force would make the Jedi invulnerable to bullet weapons, just stop them in mid-air. Even Covenant weapons could be deflected with no danger. The only possibility of Halo winning is the Halos, which could be obliterated with a Death Star round.
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Rizzo » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:32 pm UTC

Now, what if would measure units against units. Jedi would likely destroy the Spartans, simply because of the Force. However, Marines and ODSTs would wipe out stormtroopers and other soldiers. I think the real question would be that of how many Jedi there are compared to Spartans.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby SpazzyMcGee » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:46 pm UTC

Rizzo wrote:Now, what if would measure units against units. Jedi would likely destroy the Spartans, simply because of the Force. However, Marines and ODSTs would wipe out stormtroopers and other soldiers. I think the real question would be that of how many Jedi there are compared to Spartans.

JEDI vs SPARTAN
Reflexes: Spartan's have the quickest reflexes physically possible, but Jedi have limited precognition thus Jedi win here.

Strength & Agility: Jedi can suplement their movements with the force as seen when they jump, but those are only in select instances. For the most part Jedi just fight with the same sluggish movments we do. Spartans on the other hand not only have super human muscles they are also augmented by their suite making their movements lightning quick by any standerds. Barring some nifty force trick in a lightsaber dual a Spartan would win. The Jedi knowing of the Spartan's attack beforehand is all well and good but it is useless if the Jedi can't move his blade quick enough to defend against said attack. Spartan wins.

Intelligence: Spartan children are chosen because they are the most fit and intelligent people in the universe (which in the Halo universe's case means they are the best of the best in a galaxy of what I assume 100 billion humans at least). Jedi's on the other hand are only chosen for their affinity towards the force. A Jedi could be as dumb as rocks or (without the aid of the force) as clumbsy as hell. Spartans win here too.

Training: Both begin training at the same age. It's been awhile since I read the Star Wars: Jedi Apprentice books but from what I can remember the Jedi academy was nothing compared to Spartan training. I mean they just left a group of kids with no food or weapons to fend for themselves and on top of that they had marines laying traps for them and beating them senseless with no qualms at all. On top of that Spartan's specialize in combat while Jedi must learn diplomacy, meditation, etc. Spartans win one more.

Weapons: Jedi use their lightsaber which can cut through just about anything (but not some energy shields as I understand it). Spartans have their suits and UNSC weaponry. The suits provide an energy shield that I, seeing as how it helps against Covenant energy swords and plasma and beam weaponry, would assume also offers resistence against lightsabers; perhaps even enough to fully block a blow or two much like how two lightsabers colliding react. Offensively Spartans have mostly projectile weapons and though they might at first glance seem inferior to Star Wars technology this is where I believe the Spartans will get a key advantage. Jedi have been seen on countless occasions to use their limited precognition to move their blade to where a blaster bolt will hit and deflect it. However under heavy fire the Jedi cannot keep up (Episode III, when they all die, specifically the cone head Jedi, lol). The rate of fire of an smg or any automatic weapon would be too great to deflect with a lightsaber. I have never heard of a Jedi using a stop-bullets-trick like Neo thus I believe emptying a clip of smg ammo at a Jedi would most certainly turn him into a swiss cheese. In the end I'd say weaponry is close but I have to give the advantage to the Spartan.

The Force: Jedi have it, Spartans don't. This is the main advantage the Jedi have. It varies from Jedi to Jedi in how they use the force, but common forms of it like force push or pull are still very effective and very difficult to defend against. If not for this ability a Spartan would view a Jedi as little more than a sword wearing elite without a shield, easy pickings. But because this is a Jedi with the unpredictable abilities it turns a frail human with a sword into a worthy adversary that might die under a hail of bullets or might force push half your squad off a cliff and electrocute the rest.

My Assesment: If a Jedi got ambushed he would probably lose. If a Spartan got ambushed he would probably lose. Both are equally hard to ambush though because of Jedi precognition and Spartan's being able to spot a trap from a solar system away. Overall though IMHO Spartans win. The range of projectile weapons and the inability of Jedi to defend against them gives Spartans too great an advantage in too wide a range of encounters to ignore. Even in close quarters the mix of temporary resistance to lightsabers and Spartan reflexes and strength makes them a very deadly enemy. If ever there was a group of individuals cut out to be Jedi-killers it is the Spartans.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby ian » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:01 am UTC

I have never heard of a Jedi using a stop-bullets-trick like Neo thus I believe emptying a clip of smg ammo at a Jedi would most certainly turn him into a swiss cheese.


Has happened. A couple of times infact I believe.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby SpazzyMcGee » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:10 am UTC

ian wrote:
SpazzyMcGee wrote:I have never heard of a Jedi using a stop-bullets-trick like Neo thus I believe emptying a clip of smg ammo at a Jedi would most certainly turn him into a swiss cheese.

Has happened. A couple of times infact I believe.

When and where? Was it just one or two projectiles or was it a dozens of them? Is it a trick demonstrated by many Jedi and thus likely to be a simple trick all of them can preform or is it something unique to one or a few Jedi?

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby kaimason1 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:32 am UTC

First of all, STAR WARS WOULD WIN. PERIOD.

Second of all, all Jedis use their lightsabers to not only block, but REFLECT bullets, sometimes dozens in a single second. If they don't have access to a lightsaber, I do believe they can block bullets with the force.

Third of all, *goes to watch Star Wars marathon*
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby hideki101 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:10 am UTC

SpazzyMcGee wrote:
ian wrote:
SpazzyMcGee wrote:I have never heard of a Jedi using a stop-bullets-trick like Neo thus I believe emptying a clip of smg ammo at a Jedi would most certainly turn him into a swiss cheese.

Has happened. A couple of times infact I believe.

When and where? Was it just one or two projectiles or was it a dozens of them? Is it a trick demonstrated by many Jedi and thus likely to be a simple trick all of them can preform or is it something unique to one or a few Jedi?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Deflection
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Drackula2000 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:59 pm UTC

You all forget that Starwars universe has TRILLIONS of people and Billions of people in there armies. Not only that but they have the Death Star, Centerpoint Station. and many other doomsday weapons. Also AFAIK USNC still can't accurately slipsteam makin coordinated attacks difficult. Starwars wins.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Retsam » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:26 am UTC

And lets not completely count out the Storm Troopers. They're actually much tougher than they appear in the movies, highly effective, highly disciplined. (Unfortunately, they suffer from the Stormtrooper Effect where the main characters are concerned) Even before Reach, there weren't that many Spartans. I think that a group like the 501st might very well stand up to many Spartans. I'm pretty sure that Master Chief is more of an exception that a rule, when talking about Spartans. They're all tough, but there's no way the battle of reach would have been lost against that many Master Chiefs...

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby CamOfNZ » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:30 am UTC

Seems this is getting a little off topic.
The original post asked about who would win between the UNSC and the Galactic Republic.

Just stop and pause everything for a second. This means there are two groups going up against each other. The UNSC and the Galactic Republic. Not Halo-verse and Star Wars Galaxy or whatever. The UNSC and the Galactic Republic. That's the simple bit.

The complications begin when you think "Well what about their enemies from their own universe?"
I'm sure there are groups in the halo-verse who would like to see the UNSC get messed up, as there is with the GR in Star Wars.

So if you think about allies it gets REALLY interesting! :D
*for the sake of simplicity "bad guys" from the halo-verse want the UNSC gone, "Bad guys" from star wars want the GR gone, kk?*

So if the bad guys from star wars ally themselves with the UNSC then they bring all sorts of Star Wars era goodies with them. So if that happens to be some goodies from some Jedi......

However, if there are any covenant left who still want the USNC gone, they can ally with the republic. And with them they can bring some vital information such as tactics, defense information, locations, plans that the covenant thought about but never put into action because they didn't have the resources of the Republic.

However, if either side figures out a way to get flood into the other sides populations then game over. But that could be either side.
And as for the whole Jedi-Spartan thing, I reckon they wouldn't meet all that often. Space is big. Heck, how often did marines see Spartans, think back to Crows Nest, in Halo 3, the three marines at the beginning. They sounded like 3 year old kids meeting baseball stars, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YUyLyfGWcc

Or, more likely, they both get put to use behind enemies lines, disrupting read echelons and such.

If they did meet I'm not sure who would win. I think they would run advance on each other, ready to attack, a Spartan with an energy sword, Jedi with light saber, and then BOOM! there would be a massive explosion as both camps of fan boys jizzed themselves.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Duzlight » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:41 am UTC

I would like to make a note first off. This post will reek of fanboyism, but I found I had to defend my favorite scifi series from the "Stars Win: THe Force" type of beliefs. So, yeah, went a little to strong here, but oh well.

Okay, first off, who honestly believes that a Spartan is severely outclassed by a Jedi? That notion is ridiculous. Bobba Fett killed a Jedi. A bounty hunter, who, by all other standards, is a regular human trained in the art of killing. The Spartans, on the other hand, are a team of highly trained, single-minded geniuses both tactically and academically. They are able to do Calculus in their heads, which is a feet in itself. The point being, they are much smarter than the average human.

When they were only fourteen, they were put into a facility with only their clothes and were able to create black clothing, find (or construct) a rope, and find hidden cameras, in a pitch black environment. They are masters at adaptation, and working as a team. They are able to communicate through body language as if second nature, and, as a team, are almost unstoppable. Given the right equipment and intel, the Spartans could easily take down a Jedi. I'm sorry, but I have yet to see any Jedi with the kind of mindset of the Spartans. We, instead, see wise old men speaking volumes about the good and bad side of the force, and amateurs whom like to have (namely Obi-Wan and Yoda and Anakin, respectively). Honestly, I can't think of many other Jedi. But this is through my ignorance. I know the Jedi have much discipline, but they are not the result of military backbreaking research and development to create weapons to keep humanity from wiping themselves out. The Spartans would not just rush in and attempt to rain hell upon the Jedi via bullets. They would actually use tactics to easily take jedi down. If a simple bounty hunter can do it, and can teach himself how to use a light saber and duel with the chosen one with that same lightsaber, I'm pretty sure the Spartans could do the same.

Also, let's note. I am using the time period for the UNSC as this: The human-convenant war is over, and the humans have been able to accurately and efficiently reengineer covenant technology. This includes, but not is not limited to, precision slipspace jumping, super efficient energy crystals, and super efficient and rpecise plasma weaponary. Let's not forget the MAC-cannon, a device that shoots large metal objects near the speed of light, giving it enough Kinetic energy to rip through most anything. Let's not forget the NOVA bomb either. A weapon which, when detonated in orbit around a planet, shattered the planets moon, evaporated hundreds of covenant warships, and burned one side of a planet through its atmosphere, creating tsunamis, tornadoes, storms, earthquakes, and every other natural disaster. Plasma has also been shown to glass entire planets with pinpoint accuracy, and has also been shown to be able to cut through a warship with only on salvo in multiple directions. In the hands of the UNSC's smart AI's, such as Cortana, these weapons are deadly.

Now, in space combat, I'm unsure how SW shielding works. I've never really seen it in action, and am unsure as to how powerful they really are. Have they withstood nuclear blasts? This needs to be brought to light. How powerful are these shields? And also, what about the lasers? This needs to be addressed.

If you want add in the now allied Sanghelli (Elites) to the Human war, then, i'm sorry, but the Sanghelli are just as proficient, if not more so, in the act of war and tactics than humans, and with the two specifies combined, would be the strongest warfaring force that the galaxy would have ever seen. The Covenant empire alone would be second to it.

So, I'm sorry, but unless someone very well-versed in the extended galaxy of star wars comes up to explain what I am ignorant of, I can't accept any kind of proof throughout the movies. I can't recall any of the weaponry or defensive measurements ever being explained past simple "shielding" and "lasers". I need more than that to even think that the Empire could defeat humanity. The UNSC are some of the toughest, most resilient fighters, and are shown to never give up, and would have been able to defeat the Covenant empire alone had they only had more time. They are some tough sons of *******.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Qyygle » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:52 am UTC

Well, I've played both Star Wars and and obsessed with all the Halo Games, but I must admit, the I believe that Star Wars (or the GR) would win this one.
Ok, here goes a ramble...
First off, based off of pure numbers alone, the GR would outnumber any time period the Halo universe could come up with. The Clone Army alone was big enough to have fielded a single man on every single planet of the Republic. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_army) Looking at the number of planets and taking into account that this quote came from Mace Windu near the beginning of the war, then adding all the units that were added as the war continued, the total number of clones that served in the GR would have been enormous. Estimates go from about 576,000,000 - 18,000,000,000 for just clone forces alone, not counting individual planetary defense units and milita.
At most, the UNSC had fielded enough trooped to be able to defend/maintain order on each of it's colonies, which if counting the total named right now, would be 64. Increase that to account for possible planets not named in the series gets you about maybe 100 planets in the UNSC. (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Category:UNSC_Colonies)
If a garrison for a single planet averaged about a couple divisions, then you'd get about 100,000 marines per planet, and around 10,000,000 marines in the UNSC.
Even if you take the lowest number of clones, you would still get about 58 clone troopers for every marine. (these UNSC numbers are based off my estimate... they could be very, very wrong too)
While many people have stated that clone troopers are inferior to covenant and certainly Spartans, I would like to say that in regards such as intelligence and planning they are not.
"...if the GAR were made up of average humans, you simply would not have a functioning army now. Clone troopers are optimized humans, and only two percent of the population could be as tough, resilient and aggressive as these men are."
The clone army was cloned and genetically altered specifically for War. While some may say that Jango Fett was only human, he was a ridiculously exceptional human. I'd almost go as far to say he's basically a Spartan, but I know that many people here would probably argue against that. The man took down an entire group of Jedi almost by himself in one particular battle, and was a lethal tactician. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jango_Fett) The Clone ARC troopers, which were basically the closest copies the Kamonians would make of him are in my opinion, almost as good as Spartans and far more numerous.
I can agree that a Jedi might lose against a Spartan, but this would depend on many variables. If it were just one on one in a flat field, the Spartan would definitely win from a distance and at closer ranges. However, in conventional army-army battles, I'm a little less certain. While Spartans would definitely give the UNSC an edge, their numbers are very few, and in terms of sheer firepower (explained below) the GR would be almost unstoppable. Repulsor-based tanks are far more maneuverable than Scorpions as demonstrated with Wraiths, and Star Wars tanks like the TX-130_Saber-class would outnumber and outgun Earth versions in most cases. Republic Gunships would dominate Pelicans and if given Air support from Space-based fighters/bombers, the UNSC would have no chance against GAR forces.

As for Space Combat, I've seen several questions regarding the power outputs of Star Wars ships. If you want to read through the calculations here (http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/) this is a great site for numbers, but if you don't, basically, the gist of this site is that a Star Wars ship would be able to wipe the floor with anything the Elites or Humans could get. Covenant ships were vulnerable to mass nuke attacks by the humans early in the war when Nuclear weapons were still in mass stock. A Venator Class Star Destroyer could literally create the force of several megaton bombs every second through it's main gun batteries alone not mention it's massive fighter escort.
Quoted from stardestroyer.net, "...If we assume that the bolt strikes a target for 1/10 second, each cannon directs 600 GW to a target. Since this estimate is conservative, an X-Wing's blaster cannons easily release more energy in 10 seconds than the entire United States produces in electrical power. This is especially impressive when one considers the number of nuclear power plants in operation in the United States." This is an X-Wing, which is basically the equivalent of a Longsword in Halo. While of course, an X-Wing is a bit beyond the GR timeline, the power of the lasers can't have increased drastically much between the timelines. If you were to take into account the amount of cannons mounted on a capitol ship, and the much larger size/power of ship-ship lasers and the fact that Star Wars shielding allows ships to withstand this kind of firepower for quite a while, then you get the idea of how destructive a space battle would be between these sides... I see a lot of molten purple metal and a lot of very intact Republic Cruisers orbiting Earth... Even the Spartans couldn't stop the Covenant from glassing a planet, but they needed an entire fleet to do that. The Republic can do that with a single ship.

Lastly, the issue of superweapons like the Halos and some random stuff from Star Wars comes into question too. To that, I really have to say, that if the UNSC ever needed to use the Halos, they would technically be wiping themselves out too, as I'm pretty sure that there is no way they'd be able to get all their population and forces into Shield Worlds or other installations without superior GR fleets wiping them out first. If it really came down to whether or not a GR fleet could destroy a Halo before it fired, all I've got is this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Base_Delta_Zero)

Also, I'm not sure about this, but just how far away is the SW universe? It is an entirely different galaxy, so would a Halo based attack even reach the heart of the GR? (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Universe)

That's all I got, you can flame at me now. And yes, I'm a hopeless fanboy.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby masterwizard » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:11 am UTC

I think it would be unrealistic to assume that these two worlds somehow overlapped each other with all their planets somehow grouping into the same areas. Most likely, we discovered: Hey look, that galaxy over there is the Halo World, a little ways off from the Star Wars World.

This said, the Halos would not be any use as offensive weapons... they are suicide weapons, and would only be useful if they wanted to do something like if the death star were in the Halo World wreaking havoc, and the emperor were inside and they wanted to sacrifice themselves to save the rest of the universe (like the would from the flood.)

While the Death Star would just own. Given the resources of the GR, I'd guess that they could build many of these, and would, especially if the war lasted for any significant amount of time. Just think how fast they did it from episodes four to six. They could build more than one at a time, just wipe out entire planets. Yeah. It doesn't even matter who'd win, Spartans vs. Jedi, because the GR is not Jedi dependent. They'd rock the space battles and blow up the Halo world planets. The Death Stars as a whole would utterly dominate space battles, not even just planets. The only reason they failed in the movies was because they had some early prototype weaknesses exploited, which would quickly be fixed. Not to say that Star Wars is better than Halo, but the magnitude to which it was created is much much higher.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby WarDaft » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:13 am UTC

While the Death Star would just own. Given the resources of the GR, I'd guess that they could build many of these, and would, especially if the war lasted for any significant amount of time. Just think how fast they did it from episodes four to six. They could build more than one at a time, just wipe out entire planets. Yeah. It doesn't even matter who'd win, Spartans vs. Jedi, because the GR is not Jedi dependent. They'd rock the space battles and blow up the Halo world planets. The Death Stars as a whole would utterly dominate space battles, not even just planets. The only reason they failed in the movies was because they had some early prototype weaknesses exploited, which would quickly be fixed. Not to say that Star Wars is better than Halo, but the magnitude to which it was created is much much higher.
Death Stars are ludicrously wasteful. I mean really, they have the mass of millions to billions of Star Destroyers (I'm serious) and each one was destroyed in quite short order. That's not what I call sound fiscal planning!
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:38 am UTC

WarDaft wrote:
While the Death Star would just own. Given the resources of the GR, I'd guess that they could build many of these, and would, especially if the war lasted for any significant amount of time. Just think how fast they did it from episodes four to six. They could build more than one at a time, just wipe out entire planets. Yeah. It doesn't even matter who'd win, Spartans vs. Jedi, because the GR is not Jedi dependent. They'd rock the space battles and blow up the Halo world planets. The Death Stars as a whole would utterly dominate space battles, not even just planets. The only reason they failed in the movies was because they had some early prototype weaknesses exploited, which would quickly be fixed. Not to say that Star Wars is better than Halo, but the magnitude to which it was created is much much higher.
Death Stars are ludicrously wasteful. I mean really, they have the mass of millions to billions of Star Destroyers (I'm serious) and each one was destroyed in quite short order. That's not what I call sound fiscal planning!

Hear, hear!
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby hideki101 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:52 am UTC

WarDaft wrote:
While the Death Star would just own. Given the resources of the GR, I'd guess that they could build many of these, and would, especially if the war lasted for any significant amount of time. Just think how fast they did it from episodes four to six. They could build more than one at a time, just wipe out entire planets. Yeah. It doesn't even matter who'd win, Spartans vs. Jedi, because the GR is not Jedi dependent. They'd rock the space battles and blow up the Halo world planets. The Death Stars as a whole would utterly dominate space battles, not even just planets. The only reason they failed in the movies was because they had some early prototype weaknesses exploited, which would quickly be fixed. Not to say that Star Wars is better than Halo, but the magnitude to which it was created is much much higher.
Death Stars are ludicrously wasteful. I mean really, they have the mass of millions to billions of Star Destroyers (I'm serious) and each one was destroyed in quite short order. That's not what I call sound fiscal planning!

While I agree that a Death Star is probably bad in terns of money to usefulness, militarily they had potential. The only reason why the second death star was destroyed was because the Rebel Alliance had attacked it when it was still under construction. Fully completed, it would have massed as much as a small moon, and have none of the "shoot it here to blow it up" weaknesses of the original death star. At that point, even without shields or a significant amount of armor, if you don't have another planet buster lying around when it shows up around a planet you're on, prepare to say bye-bye.

Then there's the other superweapons that various imperials and warlords played around with. There's the Galaxy Gun, a cannon that fires hyperspace capable missiles that can consume a planet; there's the Sun Crusher, a fighter-sized craft with armor so strong that to destroy it the NR needed to throw it into a black hole and with torpedoes that, when triggered inside of a star, will invariably make it go nova; there are the World Devastators, mammoth platforms that eat planets and use the raw materials to create more ships and vessels for the Empire.
Albert Einistein wrote:"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Roĝer » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:41 pm UTC

I thought we had a rule here that SW extended universe is such bullshit that it doesn't count?
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby hideki101 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:19 pm UTC

Roĝer wrote:I thought we had a rule here that SW extended universe is such bullshit that it doesn't count?

Not true. The Star Wars EU is continuous, and in continuity with the movies, as well as in Lucasfilm canon.
Albert Einistein wrote:"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Qyygle » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:22 am UTC

The Emperor wasn't exactly a business genius... I'm quite sure that he did not get to where he was by the power of his fiscal policies...
That said, while I am a fan of the Expanded Star Wars universe, I will agree here that bringing the random crazy super-weapons invented by random authors into this would not make for a good argument of Halo vs. Star Wars... really, some of those things just begin to get ridiculous.

However, I still am of the opinion that a single Star Destroyer if commanded proficiently could basically destroy entire UNSC fleets... really, what are the little MAC cannons going to do against a ship that shoots with the power of several large nuclear warheads with only one of its smaller weapons?...

Of course, if you had an idiot commanding, which seems to be more the norm and not the exception in Star Wars (I think that the crazed fear the Emperor instills in his men just saps them of all the competence they might have once had) It is quite possible that a well commanded UNSC task force could take on a Star Destroyer... the only problem is that they rarely seem to travel alone, and in any normal battle, the UNSC would be overpowered simply through sheer force...

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby masterwizard » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:37 am UTC

Qyygle wrote:Of course, if you had an idiot commanding, which seems to be more the norm and not the exception in Star Wars (I think that the crazed fear the Emperor instills in his men just saps them of all the competence they might have once had)


It's also quite likely that commanders are promoted on the basis of loyalty rather than competence, so there are still intelligent and competent people, but it's just not an encouraged trait, and those people aren't the ones in charge.

But given this, once the emperor's dead, the Republic would probably run things better and this problem would fade, making the SW side stand an even better chance.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby TheNinjaBehindYou » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:45 am UTC

As much as I wish it weren't so, I think that overall, star wars would probably win. In army to army battles I think that Halo would have about a 69% or so success rate. The only problems are that Star Wars does have super weapons such as the deathstar. I would have countered it by having the Ark construct Halos within the SW galaxy to activate at a given time. Oh wait! {spoiler alert for H3!} We blew up the ark along with Installation 04 at the end of Halo 3! There goes that plan!

In smaller battles between armies, the halo armies would win. Spartans would decimate almost all opposition. You're thinking the Jedi would be a match for them. They would not, however. No matter how good a Jedi is with a Lightsaber, it would only stop energy weapons such as plasma and blasters. Should the Spartans use projectile weapons, the lightsabers would only melt the bullets into chunks of molten slag. This would do at least as much damage as a bullet, if not more.

Also, the undermining factor of any argument is the flood. The flood will destroy either civilization in the end. should SW win as I predict would happen, the flood will be able to easily infect any Jedi. I don't care if you have a laser sword! I don't care if you can do magic! If you don't have shields, and you get swarmed by infection forms a la "The Flood" from Halo 1, then you are going down!

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Qyygle » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:33 pm UTC

umm... but then the Star Destroyers in orbit blast the living poo out of everything on the ground and it doesn't matter anymore.
Also, the little Flood balls are ridiculously easy to kill. A smack from an assault rifle can take them down, several at a time. A Jedi using the force to hurl them across the room is a bit more than that, and it's conceivable that he'd be able to hold the Flood off for quite a while.
Projectile weapons are not that effective against lightsabers. On Haruun Kal, Mace Windo used his to stop bullets from assault rifles and other weapons as laser weaponry didn't work on the planet. Just think about it. If projectile weapons were really that effective against Jedi, the CIS would have simply armed all their droids with machine guns and defeated the Republic. It would have been cheaper than using laser weapons too. Obviously there's a reason here.
Spartans are not that numerous, and the Republic is not the Covenant.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby TheTedinator » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:06 pm UTC

I'm a SW fanboy, and have only recently started playing Halo, so I'm a tad biased. But looking at the GR at it's peak, near the beginning of the clone wars, there are hundreds of jedi, millions to billions of clones, and even the venator or acclamator class SD are incredibly powerful, especially when complemented by ARC-170 squadrons commanded by Jedi in Delta-7s.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby ONI.084 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:46 am UTC

As a fan of both the Star Wars and Halo frannchises, It's a pretty tough one to call. In regards to numbers, The Galactic Republic, though in pretty bad shape after the Yuuzhan Vong war, would still outnumber the UNSC very substantially, since they barely survived the Human-Covenant war. However, humans are good at nothing if not multiplying (ka-chow!) and given an abundance of worlds to repopulate, 26th century humanity could soon number in the several billions yet again, though this is still pitiful compared to the SW galaxy's trillions of sentients. Additionally, if the UNSC mantains its treaty with the Covenant seperatists, whose numbers could soon include the Hunters, Jackals, drones and Grunts (not the Brutes or Prophets, the Elites would most likely persecute them to the point of extinction), the UNSC could build a sizable force that might be comparable to the Galactic Republics. As far as technology goes, the UNSC is actually likely to be superior to the Republic, even if only because the latter was dreamed up in the twentieth century as opposed to the 21st. The UNSC stands on the brink of becoming a Type 1 or "World building" civilisation at the end of the Halo Trilogy, as they have a host of Forerunner artifacts at their disposal, such as the Halo Array, the Ark, (though it is in very bad shape indeed) and the Portal at the base at Mount Kilimajaro. Given their track record with reverse engineering alien technology, (capturing, adopting, implementing and improving on personal shield technology in under 2 decades for example) they could easily become a force to be reckoned with. They would have pinpoint, instantaneous slipspace travel superior to hyperdrive technology, gravity manipulation technology analogous to SW's repulsorlift tech, and all the resources they could possibly need. They do have an entire galaxy to expand into, while SW's galaxy is firmly established, and already filled. In regards to superweapons such as the Death Star, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, etc, the UNSC still holds their own. WIth access to the Halo technology, they could selectively deny large portions of space, or completely wipe out entire sectors, as the Halos can actually be moved from place to place just as the Galaxy Gun and Death star can. Additionally, the UNSC also has planet killing capabitlities, with weapons such as the NOVA bomb, and the super MAC platforms which fire several-thousand ton projectiles at relativistic speeds. In the end, the defining advantage that I think would allow the UNSC to prevail is their possession of beyond-human AI, and their integration into their military. While all decisions and strategies in Star Wars are made by biologicals, the UNSC puts their AI to great use in creating and coordinating their battleplans. Essentially, this means that unless the Republic starts improving their AI systems and battle protocols immensely, the UNSC could win every single space and land battle they engage in, provided that they are not too greatly outnumbered. The Republics main advantages would be numbers, which the UNSC could counter by using AI controlled, unmanned fleets and warships, and their possession of Jedi forces. The only way to counter Jedi would be through long range engagements to negate the advantage given them by the force, and using ranged weapons that could not be countered by lightsabers, but with this said, Jedi could indeed be easily countered.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Qyygle » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:16 am UTC

I still think you're missing the point here. In case you didn't see the post before, there is no way for the UNSC to even come close to Star Wars tech.

Remember this http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/? Here's a bigger quote then,
"When discussing a weapon, there is more than one way of expressing firepower. Turbolasers fire "bolts", so the firepower of each bolt can be measured. These bolts are only fired once per unit time, so the "sustained" firepower is the power of each bolt divided by this unit of time. These mid-sized TL bolts can be fired at least once every two seconds, so a turbolaser cannon must have a sustained firepower of at least 15 terawatts. Assuming they can be fired once per second, they would have a sustained output of at least 30 terawatts (since one of the smallest estimated diameters of the asteroids is used, and only the melting point, this estimate is ridiculously conservative).
In comparison, the United States now produces 500-600 gigawatts of electrical power. This is a whole order of magnitude less than the power of a single middle-sized turbolaser.
The atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was rated at 15 kilotons. This translates to about 63 terajoules. Using my conservative estimate for TL bolts (ignoring vaporisation), a middle-sized TL bolt has about 30 TJ of energy. Therefore, a TL bolt has about half the energy of the Hiroshima bomb.
A bomb releases its energy in all directions, so an object immediately next to an exploding bomb won't absorb any more than half of the energy, probably much less. A TL bolt directs essentially all of it's energy to a target, therefore, a TL bolt is at least as intense as the blast from an atom bomb, even if the bomb was detonated while in contact with the target. At greater distances, the intensity of the bomb's blast decreases exponentially. A single TL bolt should have the capability to level a small town, as the Hiroshima bomb did. "
This was the conservative part of the calculations, which assumed that the asteroids off which the numbers were derived had not actually vaporized but simply melted, judging only the smaller lasers. A single Venator class Star Destroyer, which is what the Republic would be fielding at this time, carries an unspecified number of lasers in this scale, 8 turrets mounting even heavier dual cannons and 2 other medium turrets, not counting the Proton Torpedo launchers. That would be a lot of atomic bombs going off in just a few seconds. Add in the roughly 420 various fighter craft the ship, primarily a carrier, carries, you get enough firepower to vaporize probably an entire Covenant Battle group.
I understand that nukes in Halo would probably have much higher yields than Little Boy or Fat Man, but if you took the high or even medium estimate also listed in that link, the numbers would even out.


Ok, comparative velocity and energy output for a 'Super' MAC cannon is about 9.98 teratons of TNT
"These cannons fire a 3000-ton ferric-tungsten round at nearly 50% the speed of light, impacting with a massive amount of relativistic kinetic energy, which at 50% of the speed of light is of equal power to 9.98 teratons of TNT. No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to cripple or destroy a second ship.
It is theorized that if a ship's armor or shields were to absorb all the kinetic energy of a MAC round, the release of thermodynamic energy would still vaporize the ship. By receiving power from ground-based power plants, orbital platforms could achieve recharge and reload times as short as five seconds." http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/MAC_GUN
This would probably be the only weapon in the Halo Universe short of the Halos themselves that I can see as being a potential danger to a Star Wars ship.
However, this MAC cannon was only seen to be mounted on the Orbital Defense Stations the UNSC used to defend its critical planets, and it is unlikely that it was able to be fitted to ships due to its massive energy needs. I can only assume that UNSC fleets would mostly be composed of MAC guns with lower power and/or slower firing rates, as evidenced by most depictions of space battles in the books and games.

The survivability of these different fleets now comes into play. First off, lets take a look at UNSC Ships. They are unshielded, and though you could say Humanity is very good at reverse engineering tech, I have not yet seen a shielded Human vessel even though the Covenant have been using this tech since the beginning of the war. Not only that, but there are Humans in Star Wars too, and they happen to make up the majority of populations in many worlds, guess what? I think they'll be multiplying too. Having humans does not guarantee success. A Covenant Supercruiser could possibly survive a single Nuclear Mine strike, or perhaps 3 MAC hits. (These ships were durable enough to withstand one nuclear mine detonation, or even three MAC rounds and nearly five hundred Archer missiles. However, during the Battle of Reach, it used a hit-and-run tactic to avoid fire from the ODPs' "Super" MACs. ) http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Supercruiser
While not the biggest or best ship, this was one of the Covenants heavier classes and it certainly outclasses any UNSC responses. Now remember the Venator and its armament of what are basically nuclear autocannons? I think it meets the requirements.
In comparison, the Venator is equipped with heavy shielding to help it survive combat with ships roughly equal to its class. This in mind, I assume that the ship would be capable of surviving bombardment from weapons similar to those in its own armament for extended periods of time as shown in Episode 3, where you can clearly see Venators giving and receiving multiple turbolaser hits in a very short amount of time while still surviving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fGLYqo7bGs
There is no doubt as to who would win in a space battle here if just based on weaponry and ships alone, and if you bring the tech superiority over to the ground too, then land battles too.

Lastly, on your issue of AI, I think that video can also attest to that. Those droid ships are all AI driven and though they may not be on the level of Cortana or any other smart AI they certainly performed adequately well for combat. There is evidence of such 'smart Ai's' in Star Wars. Guri (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Guri) a human replica droid was literally an AI that was almost undistinguished from any other human. Sure, she may not have had super boosted processors or memory storage as Cortana had, she was meant to be like a human and thus had a bigger emphasis on other functions too. However, the advantages of an smart AI would still be limited by the quality of the craft it is in command of. You can only go so far in coordination, before you need to improve your weapons and armor too. I could wield a toothpick with the utmost skill and experience, but if I went up against someone with a sword, there's a big question as to whether or not I'd survive. You haven't shown how the advantage of an AI would help to win battles.
The Republics advantage lies in not only numbers but massive, overwhelming firepower and defensive capabilities.
It is very difficult to find a weapon that a Jedi cannot defend him/herself against. They've been shown deflecting rockets with the Force in "Jango Fett: Seasons" and short of a round from a Scorpion or some other sort of vehicle, there are no Infantry weapons save the Spartan Laser I can see defeating a Jedi. Unless there was a Spartan on the wielding end. I think that their uber-fast reflexes would probably be the only things capable of repeatedly killing Jedi short of a MAC bombardment.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Venator » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:16 am UTC

I guess someone has to step up to the plate on the Star Wars side, so here's an objective blow by blow comparison of each respective Empire:

Industrial Capacity and Territorial Holdings:

Imperial assets include more than one million star systems, and millions of warships including tens of thousands of standard KDY Star Destroyers. Space stations are the size of small moons and they have even built artificial planets in the past. Kuat Drive Yards (The leading manufacturer of ships) are capable of constructing three Star Destroyers per day, and they managed to construct two thirds of a 900km space station in under six months.

Covenant assets are unknown, although it is speculated that they posses only the territory within the Orion arm of the Milky Way galaxy. Their largest known structure is High Charity, which is easily dwarfed by the second and third Death Star and other known artificial planetoids.

Propulsion Technology: Slip Drive vs Hyperdrive

Hyperdrive allows Star Wars vessels to traverse a galaxy in hours or days, which requires vessels to travel at least 10,000,000 times the speed of light (3,000 light years per hour).

The fastest known Covenant vessel traveled at 38 light years per hour, meaning it would take decades for them to cross their galaxy.

Beam Weapons: Energy Projector vs Turbolasers

Heavy to medium turbolasers release many gigatons/teratons of energy per shot (Source: Incredible cross-sections), while light turbolasers release dozens of megatons of energy per shot. A Star Destroyer carries more than a hundred light turbolasers and dozens of heavy turbolasers. The Death Star (A massive compound turbolaser) releases more energy than the Sun produces in over seven thousand years! They also have ion cannon technology, which the Covenant lack.

Covenant Energy weapons are effective at glassing planets over the course of multiple hours, placing their beam weapons within the high megaton range.

Torpedoes: Photon/Quantum torpedoes vs Imperial missiles

Imperial missiles are not their heaviest weapons, and are mostly used for fighter combat or attacks on "soft targets", such as starships whose shields have been disabled by turbolaser fire. Therefore, most missiles are very small, low-yield devices (Jango Fett's seeking missiles were rated at only 190 megatons), although there have been notable exceptions (Eg. the huge and devastating Galaxy Gun missiles or the Suncrusher's quantum resonance torpedoes). Maneuverability can be superb; Luke's torpedo executed a 72,000g turn in ANH.

The covenant use plasma torpedoes, which according to damage estimates seen from the games, are in the high kiloton levels in terms of damage produced.

Shields

Imperial capital ship shields can survive direct hits from multi-gigaton nuclear warheads and turbolasers, considering the output of a heavy turbolaser, the shields are estimated to be in the teraton/petaton range. Their planetary shields are far stronger, and can withstand days or weeks of sustained fleet bombardment with multi-teraton heavy turbolasers. Alderaan's planetary shield actually blocked the Death Star superlaser for a split-second, which suggests the capability to block multiple yottatons of energy.

Covenant shields are far weaker, being only strong enough to withstand 2 or 3 MAC shells rated at around 50 kilotons each. The standard ship-mounted MAC fires a 600-ton ferric-tungsten projectile with a depleted uranium core at 960,000 km/h (this is circa 2552). The large amount of energy needed to fire the weapon (the muzzle energy is 270 terajoules (E=.5mv^2), to be precise) is particularly onerous on a warship, and the extended recharge time is a significant factor in combat against Covenant warships as multiple MAC rounds are required to penetrate Covenant shields. The standard MAC is sufficient to destroy any human vessel or severely damage an unshielded Covenant vessel.

Communications

Capital ship subspace transceivers have a range of 100 light years. The Holo-Net permits real-time communication across a galaxy of over 120,000 light years.

Covenant communications are limited to the speed of slipspace travel.

Planet Killing

A single Imperial Star Destroyer is capable of slagging the entire surface of a planet in less than an hour, this process is known as a Base Delta Zero, and usually guarantees the total destruction of a Planetary population before an evacuation is possible. They also have the famous Death Star, a battle station capable of firing a beam designed to blow up an entire Planet. Think about that for a second.



The covenant are limited to a process known as glassing, in which the silicates in the crust are melted. This process is inferior to the Base Delta Zero (Which melts the entire crust) and requires multiple ships working over the course of several hours (In one case it took twenty-four Destroyers and Cruisers twelve hours to glass a Planet). They have no means of destroying a planet beyond superficial surface damage.

Weapons ranges

Imperial Turbolasers have recorded maximum ranges of over ten light minutes (179,875,475 kilometers), with distances of over 100,000 kilometers being considered point blank range by some.

Maximum Covenant ranges are unknown, but very rarely have they been seen firing beyond the 100,000 kilometer mark, the Energy projector beam has an effective range of over 50,000 kilometers.

Super-Weapons

Where do I start? Death Star I, Death Star II, the Tarkin, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, World Devastators, Centerpoint Station, Darksaber, Star Forge, mass shadow generator etc. They are capable of destroying Planets, moving them through Hyperdrive, generating Supernovas, creating black holes and even launching planet busting torpedoes from the opposite end of the galaxy to the next (I.e. The Galaxy Gun).

What do the Covenant have? Anti-Matter bombs make excellent terror devices, but they are incapable of achieving the damage presented by even low-yield Imperial weapons.

- - -

As you can see from the above, the Covenant are vastly dwarfed by the Empire in almost every respect. It is nonsensical to believe for even one second that the Covenant would be a stain on Imperial boots, let alone capable of defeating them in pitched inter-galactic warfare.

What you have is a small inter-stellar Empire of a few thousand vessels going against a Galactic Empire of several million warships using technology that is vastly inferior to that of the Empire. The speed at which the Empire can field their fleets would leave the Covenant spinning, the technological disparity is so great that the Empire won't need superior numbers to win as a single Star Destroyer is easily worth a dozen or more Assault Carriers.

This is after all an Empire that can casually throw around petatons of damage with ease, to think that Covenant could hope to resist for even a week against such a force is foolish. Although if you wish to debate the matter, I'll be here for some time.

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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Venator » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:17 am UTC

In order to expand upon my previous post, I intend to create a series of articles that will allow me to go into greater detail on the varying subjects I previously presented, elucidating to a greater capacity on said statements.

First order of the day:

Shields: Covenant Vs. Imperial Shields

Whilst both the Covenant and Imperial fleets utilize energy shielding, it is fallacious to assume that they both operate on the same principles, or that they are even remotely compatible on orders of scale and magnitude.

Shield power generation:

According to Halo: First Strike the Covenant use a series of fusion based 512 terawatt generators to power their battle station (Which is known as the Unyielding Hierophant) shields, this is impressive by any standard, especially as humans of that era are still experimenting with primitive fission reactors. But to garner the power of their Imperial opposition, simply grab figures from the official publications. Of all the voluminous Star Wars publications out there, only one for each film gives meaningful specifications in real-world units: Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections (SW2ICS) and the Star Wars Episode III Incredible Cross-Sections (SW3ICS). According to the guide, the peak output of the Acclamator troop transport vessel reactor is 200 trillion gigawatts (Or two hundred billion terawatts).

In the same chapter it discusses the 70 trillion gigawatt shield heat dissipation for the same Acclamator troop transport vessel, a 700 meter carrier vessel that is forty-two times smaller than the Covenant battle station in question. If the individual reactors were represented by a peak output of 512 terawatts, the Covenant would need 136,718,750 reactors stationed throughout Unyielding Hierophant to match a single pre-Imperial vessel. As you can see, the officially published figures are massively in favour of the Empire, even if you disregard the fact that an Acclamator is not a particularly powerful warship by Imperial standards (An Imperial Star Destroyer is roughly 10 times larger (By volume) than an Acclamator and presumably 10 times more powerful, even if we disregard the fact that an Acclamator is just a transport). In fact, the only way to generate a remotely close match between an Imperial ship and a Covenant ship is to use a small patrol craft. The technological disparity is just *that* great.

Little is known of Covenant power generation sans the use of fusion reactors, a process that was abandoned in the Star Wars universe in favour of Hypermatter generation. In fact Hypermatter generation is said to be so powerful that a Venator-class Star Destroyer's main reactor annihilated the equivalent of 40,000 tons of matter each second.
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Shield Combat capability:

Star Destroyers were able to survive half an hour of ship to ship battle with Mon Calamari battlecruisers in the Battle of Endor before they started to lose shielding. If we assume roughly one Star Destroyer per Mon Calamari cruiser and ignore fighters (In spite of the fact that they were carrying thermonuclear weapons), we can estimate that a Star Destroyer can survive many thousands of shots before shield failure. In the opening scene of ANH a Star Destroyer is seen firing roughly 25 shots in 5 seconds, for a time-averaged refire rate of 5 shots per second. This indicates that the shields of an Imperial Star Destroyer can sustain literally petatons of damage before failing entirely.

An ISD1 can unleash more than 860 teratons of energy (SW3ICS) with a fully powered broadside. If an ISD can withstand at least one full broadside from another ISD, then this would mean that the burst energy capacity of a Star Destroyer's shields is probably in the range of several hundred teratons.

The TESB novelization described a "steady rain" of asteroids, and Anakin Skywalker: The Story of Darth Vader said that "turbolaser gunners blasted the largest rocks; those they missed impacted against the bow shields like multi-megaton compression bombs." We can see from the film that the ships were taking impacts at the rate of at least 1 asteroid per second if not more, and we know from the above quote that the asteroids were striking with several megatons of energy each. Some dispute this figure by stating that we saw some slow-moving asteroids in the films, but this is a false dilemma fallacy: the existence of slow-moving asteroids does not prove that all of the asteroids (<99.99% of which would have impacted >off-screen) would have been slow-moving, particularly since typical asteroid speeds in the Earth's solar system have been observed to be much higher than this. Furthermore, the bombardment must have continued for at least 1 or 2 days because Vader had time to contact bounty hunters, who travelled from their various homebases to the Outer Rim while the fleet stayed in the field. Therefore, each ISD might have absorbed as much as 3E20 joules of kinetic energy while in the asteroid field.

Of interesting note, according to the Star Wars: Complete Locations technical manual, the shields of an Executor-class Star Destroyer handled much of the power generated—an amount equivalent to the total power of a medium star (3.8 × 10E26 W). If translated to a reliable energy figure, equals about 900 petatons, supported by the fact that in the Dark Empire novel, three Imperial Star Destroyers crash into the Executor-class whilst breaking hyperspace; the vessel survived thanks to her strong shields.

Meanwhile Covenant shields can take a vast amount of punishment, and can recharge very quickly. The only known flaw of Starship shields is that when the vessel fires its Plasma weapons, the ship needs to drop a section of its shields for a fraction of a second. Otherwise, the Plasma Torpedo would detonate on the inside of the shields. This weakness was demonstrated when a group of Spartans destroyed a Covenant ship in Halo: Fall of Reach, by going inside of the ship and planting an explosive. Additionally, when a Covenant ship unloads troops and supplies, it must lower its shields to let dropships out.

They can absorb almost all missile fire; including hundreds of Archer Missiles and even a Shiva nuclear missile (Although Shiva nukes will usually deplete their shields, making them vulnerable to smaller weapons). The only UNSC weapons capable of penetrating a Covenant Starship’s Shields are the MAC cannon rounds. Even then, ship-based MACs take multiple rounds to drop the shields; a Super-MAC only needs one hit to destroy the ship entirely in a single burst.

Plasma and other energy weapons, on the other hand, can easily disable the shields, in much the same manner as Elite Personal Energy Shields. It must be noted that the size and class of a vessel determines the strength of its shields. Also, even though the shield can absorb a direct nuclear missile, if it detonates "inside" the shield, the blast will be magnified. It has been observed exploding inside the shield, and destroying the ship before the shields collapse. The pressure and heat released would bounce off the shields back into the ship to further damage it.

A typical ship-based MAC fires slugs of either ferric Tungsten or depleted uranium at 30,000 m/s. The high muzzle speed gives the 600 ton slug the kinetic energy and momentum necessary to damage a target and partially mitigates the unguided nature of the slug and its lack of manoeuvrability. By calculating the kinetic energy of each MAC round, we can determine that a single ship mounted round produces around 2.7E22 joules of energy (64 kilotons). From the use of human engineered weapons, we can gather that the burst energy capacity of a Battlecruiser's shields are in the low megaton range at best.

Planetary shields:

"My Lord, the fleet has moved out of light-speed. Comm-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area of the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment"- General Veers, TESB. Planetary energy shields were used in TESB and ROTJ, but the Rebels' primitive Hoth energy shield was not at all similar to the sophisticated planetary energy shield in ROTJ which could prevent any and all ground attacks (unlike the Hoth shield), while simultaneously protecting the orbiting DS2. The Hoth energy shield essentially formed a "canopy" which ground forces could penetrate easily, while the Endor energy shield completely encircled the Endor moon as well as the DS2, leaving no openings through which to launch a ground assault.

The Covenant on the other hand has never demonstrated expansive overlapping field shields, let alone entire planetary shield systems.

Conclusion:

Imperial shielding, much like that of the Covenant, is dependent on the scale of the vessel and her ability to generate the power necessary to support those shields. But what we've learned is that Imperial starship shields have repeatedly demonstrated the ability to survive multiple gigatons, teratons and even several hundred petatons of direct energy fire from opposing vessels.

The Covenant on the other hand have shown a much lower threshold for resistance, with shields failing due to massed and comparatively primitive human tactical weapons (Such as nuclear warheads and MAC rounds); demonstrating a resistance factor in the low megaton range at best.

Luckily, the Covenant does not appear to possess the technology to create powerful planetary energy shields, and are limited to partial-shields which only prevent small scale conflicts on a regional level. This allows Imperial forces to bombard their planetary populations at will even with very small starship groups. Meanwhile even large Covenant fleets lack the firepower to even stress, let alone drop Imperial planetary shields, making any ground invasion or orbital bombardment nigh impossible.

Due to the immense technological disparity presented by the Empire, the combat sustainability of the Covenant fleet is significantly less than that of Imperial vessels, several magnitudes of order less in fact. Which means that the staying power of an Imperial vessel vastly supersedes anything the Covenant can present, allowing it to engage multiple contacts for far longer.

Venator
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Venator » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:18 am UTC

Im sorry if i stole all the fun XD

ONI.084
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby ONI.084 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:30 am UTC

Actually, I think that Jedi would be quite vulnerable to conventional munitions (bullets). When they use their lightsabers to cut through metal doors and such in the films, the metal melts, but does not vaporise, so any attempts to redirect bullets with their lightsabers would simply result in a small piece of molten metal still travelling towards them at high speed. So they would have to either dodge the bulltets, or use the force change their trajectories. And like I said, the UNSC could very likely reverse engineer the Forerunner laser technology too, as seen in sentinel beams and the like. True, given the sheer difference in scale between the Star Wars and Halo fictions, there is no way that the factions of Halo could possibly defeat any of the Star Wars factions (with the possible exception of the rebel alliance) as they stand at the end of the human-covenant war. But, if they can successfuly reverse engineer and employ the Forerunner technology they have found, they could have a fighting chance. Forerunner technology provides a whole host of scientific deus ex machinas such as near perpetual energy sources, material and construction technology allowing the production of larger than planet sized structures, fully autonomous weapon systems, and pinpoint, instantaneous slipspace travel. All the UNSC would need to match the scale of the Republic or Empire is time. So we shouldn't really be comparing the capabalities of the UNSC versus the republic/Empire, or even the Covenant versus the Empire. We should be comparing them against the capabilities of the Forerunners, since the UNSC now has full access to Forerunner technology. (and also because that just makes it a whole lot more even.)

hooktail154
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby hooktail154 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:29 pm UTC

Spartans, most definitely

This seems like its become waaaaaay to deep of a discussion

Too bad i had to post, this topic had 117 posts (Bungie Reference)

Qyygle
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby Qyygle » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:41 am UTC

But in Episode I, the Jedi were cutting through a door of Starship grade armor, which is from Star Wars itself... Armor that had to be capable of withstanding Turbolaser strikes that go upwards of several megatons at a time... I'm pretty sure the bullets used in a battle rifle or submachine gun are nowhere near that resistant and would more or less vaporize against a lightsaber blade.

That said, if there was a Spartan wielding said battle rifle, I could see him utilizing it in a way that the spread or firing points might overwhelm the Jedi's ability to block them. If we were to speculate that the Spartan and Jedi were able to move at almost the same speeds, (Spartan with Augs, Jedi with Force) then it is possible that the Spartan could use his/her experience and skill to defeat a Jedi. But the Marines are basically doomed

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clockworkmonk
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Re: Halo vs Star Wars

Postby clockworkmonk » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:13 pm UTC

One thing to mention is that in the X-wing series, it is stated multiple times that Stormtrooper Armor protects almost completely from ballistics.

Though honestly the fight I'd wanna see is the USNC Vs. Wraith Squadron. My money's on the Wraiths.

Oh yeah, also the Jedi have massive reflexes and see a little into the future. And have been shown to deflect ballistics with their minds. Of course, that really depends on the quality of the Jedi in question.

Unless that Jedi is Kyle Katarn. In which case Kyle Katarn wins. Dude became a Jedi master twice.
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