Why Windows is better than Linux

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Emu* » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:14 pm UTC

Who gives a fuck about the bloody growth-share matrix, what are you, a manager???
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:52 pm UTC

Emu* wrote:Who gives a fuck about the bloody growth-share matrix, what are you, a manager???


Do I need to be a manager to care?
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby ash.gti » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:16 pm UTC

I think most of Microsofts current products are "cash cows" now. I personally haven't seen much innovation in most of their products in recent years, but I don't really use any of them on any sort of regular basis, so I may be missing something.

They just seem to do enough to not loose market shares, very little of their stuff makes me go "oh man that was a great feature".
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Woegjiub » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:33 am UTC

ash.gti wrote:I think most of Microsofts current products are "cash cows" now. I personally haven't seen much innovation in most of their products in recent years, but I don't really use any of them on any sort of regular basis, so I may be missing something.

They just seem to do enough to not loose market shares, very little of their stuff makes me go "oh man that was a great feature".


Windows 7.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby ash.gti » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:50 pm UTC

Woegjiub wrote:Windows 7.


Really? I mean I have ultimate beta on my gaming desktop, but I still don't feel like anything in there is that amazing. I have used OS X and plenty of linux desktop environments and just about every new feature I have seen in 7 has existed before.

Its a clear improvement over Vista but its not that amazing...
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Woegjiub » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:30 pm UTC

ash.gti wrote:
Woegjiub wrote:Windows 7.


Really? I mean I have ultimate beta on my gaming desktop, but I still don't feel like anything in there is that amazing. I have used OS X and plenty of linux desktop environments and just about every new feature I have seen in 7 has existed before.

Its a clear improvement over Vista but its not that amazing...


I have utimate final version (yay TPB), and I think that while it has no new features, it does blend them really well - I especially like the new taskbar.
OSX is ugly as sin and useless to boot.
Win7 stil isn't as good as KDE, but I would like it if KDE adopted the stackable icons without text crossed with launcher idea.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:58 pm UTC

I use OS X just fine. Maybe you should work on your apparent complete inability to adapt.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:04 pm UTC

Being myself an OS X user and fan, I think Woegjiub is entitled to have his own opinion of it. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it, period.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby stephentyrone » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:22 pm UTC

Woegjiub wrote:OSX is ugly as sin and useless to boot.


There's no arguing with taste, but wild hyperbole will get you nowhere, even in internet flame wars.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:38 pm UTC

stephentyrone wrote:There's no arguing with taste, but wild hyperbole will get you nowhere, even in internet flame wars.


Wild hyperbole is what make flame wars fun.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Woegjiub » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:36 am UTC

Endless Mike wrote:I use OS X just fine. Maybe you should work on your apparent complete inability to adapt.

I can adapt fine, I use Windows 7, KDE and gnome regularly.

I hate OSX because everything is dumbed down, and it is not customizable without replacing the DE and basically making it a linux distribution.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby stephentyrone » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:20 am UTC

Ok, recalibrating for the RW audience:

Woegjiub wrote:I hate OSX because everything is dumbed down, and it is not customizable without replacing the DE and basically making it a linux distribution.


You say this, but your only objection to OSX besides it being "ugly as sin", which is a matter of taste, is that it's "useless". People who have real uses for their computers don't spend their days "customizing" their OS or "themeing" their desktop or whatever it is that you crazy kids call that sort of masturbation these days. I mean, I can attach a spoiler to the top of my monitor, too, but it won't make my code run any faster.

Also, get off my lawn.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby OOPMan » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:07 am UTC

OS X is better than Windows, and that's all that really matters. Visually, I couldn't give a damn because I use my computer for work so it doesn't really matter much what it looks like (I used the Ion3 WM for a while and it is not pretty but it is very functional).
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:14 pm UTC

stephentyrone wrote:I mean, I can attach a spoiler to the top of my monitor, too, but it won't make my code run any faster.

You mean those flame stickers I put on my case don't make it go faster? :(

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby cerbie » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:12 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
stephentyrone wrote:I mean, I can attach a spoiler to the top of my monitor, too, but it won't make my code run any faster.

You mean those flame stickers I put on my case don't make it go faster? :(
No. It's all in the multicolored lights, man.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby phlip » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:24 pm UTC

cerbie wrote:No. It's all in the multicolored lights, man.

Sir, these lights keep blinking out of sequence...

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Woegjiub » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:12 am UTC

cerbie wrote:
Amnesiasoft wrote:
stephentyrone wrote:I mean, I can attach a spoiler to the top of my monitor, too, but it won't make my code run any faster.

You mean those flame stickers I put on my case don't make it go faster? :(
No. It's all in the multicolored lights, man.

Remember, green ones speed it up, blue ones cool it down, and red ones are just stupid - they heat it up.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby ash.gti » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:46 pm UTC

Woegjiub wrote:Remember, green ones speed it up, blue ones cool it down, and red ones are just stupid - they heat it up.


But if your an ork (from 40k) then green is the best, red is faster and blue is lucky.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby sikyon » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:41 pm UTC

I like windows more than linux.

Primarily, this is because linux has a learning curve steeper than windows, at least for me. This is from personal experience, so nobody can actually tell me that it doesn't - since I've had it firsthand (though it may not apply to everyone).

The steeper learning curve and the difficulties I have faced in using linux lead me to believe that my productivity will not improve enough, or at all, overall if I were to switch. I really only use games supported by windows and windows supported applications, so I don't face "blue screen" errors currently (I used to before I knew how to reduce clutter and take better care of my computer). I also find that online support is better for errors in windows, so that I can quickly find answers to my problems because the system is standardized, as opposed to have to actually know what I'm doing with linux.

In short, the vast majority of my computer use is as an enabling technology (as with most people in the world) and not an ends unto itself. This means that whichever system costs me less time and gives me the bigest benefit will win out. Windows has historically cost me less time than linux, and I have not noticed increased benifit as an enabling platform with linux, so therefore I perfer windows.

However, I can see that if you were to get superior benifit from using linux then the "cost" might be worth it, or if your windows kept crashing with a critical application or something, in which case the "cost" of windows would be much higher.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby TheChewanater » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:26 am UTC

You never have virus problems? Or performance issues? Also, Linux does seem like a steeper learning curve, but only because many people have been using Windows for much longer. I'm sure that if you switched to Linux and stayed on it as long as you've been on Windows you'd learn it easily. Actually, there are even Linux distros designed so you don't really have to 'learn' to use them, just click some icons and go online (gOS, for example).

Also, Windows annoys me even when I'm on Linux.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:03 am UTC

Personally, I think Linux is better than Windows. However, I understand the pain of those Windows users who want to try Linux and expect it to work the way Windows does. Back when I did the transition from Windows to Linux, it took me ages to understand how everything worked. The transition from Linux to Mac OS X was way smoother. But perhaps it was eased by the fact the foundation of Mac OS X is actually UNIX.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Woegjiub » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:11 am UTC

TheChewanater wrote:You never have virus problems? Or performance issues? Also, Linux does seem like a steeper learning curve, but only because many people have been using Windows for much longer. I'm sure that if you switched to Linux and stayed on it as long as you've been on Windows you'd learn it easily. Actually, there are even Linux distros designed so you don't really have to 'learn' to use them, just click some icons and go online (gOS, for example).

Also, Windows annoys me even when I'm on Linux.


The learning curve on each is the same, whereas with osx they have the menus OUTSIDE THE APPLICATION, and other retarted ideas.
I know too many beginner users that get viruses, and I have to recommend linux for all people that don't want to play video games, simply because it's more stable, and the package manager provides a guaranteed virus-free collection of software.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby BlackSails » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:51 am UTC

TheChewanater wrote:You never have virus problems? Or performance issues?


I dont, on XP. Really, you have to be not very smart to get viruses. Just dont download questionable files. And have an antivirus program up if you do.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:46 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:the menus OUTSIDE THE APPLICATION, and other retarted ideas.

/me pulls out Fitt's Law.

No, it's a fairly well thought out idea. It's easier to hit something on the edge of a screen because objects on a screen's edge are "infinitely" large.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby cerbie » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:43 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:
TheChewanater wrote:You never have virus problems? Or performance issues?


I dont, on XP. Really, you have to be not very smart to get viruses. Just dont download questionable files. And have an antivirus program up if you do.
No, have an AV up, period. I've had AV catch stuff from perfectly valid sites who's ad or tracking servers had been hijacked, and that did not fit an ABP rule. Rare (twice while using the Windows 7 RC), but it can happen.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:57 pm UTC

cerbie wrote:No, have an AV up, period. I've had AV catch stuff from perfectly valid sites who's ad or tracking servers had been hijacked, and that did not fit an ABP rule. Rare (twice while using the Windows 7 RC), but it can happen.


I have an XP virtual machine without antivirus and the sky hasn't fallen yet. But I don't use Windows to surf the Web, unless it's strictly necessary (for example, my college's enrollment web app doesn't work in any browser other than Internet Explorer; to download YouTube videos, I need the Firefox plugin, and I don't like Firefox en OS X; etc.). In case anything goes wrong, all my files are in my OS X host.

Of course, XP wouldn't pass my favorite security benchmark: one day of visiting "questionable Web sites" without getting a single virus.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby TheChewanater » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:45 pm UTC

If you don't have an antivirus program (another cost) you almost certainly will get a virus eventually. Really, some of them are almost impossible to avoid. And once you get one, it's expensive to get rid of if the AV doesn't pick it up, which it often won't.

Anyways, that's like saying that it's okay to jump into a tank of starving sharks, since you'd have to be really stupid to get yourself killed by sharks, and you never have before. Using another OS is like, you know, NOT jumping into a tank of sharks. You listed why you think it isn't much of a risk, but no benefits to taking that "small" risk.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:06 pm UTC

TheChewanater wrote:You listed why you think it isn't much of a risk, but no benefits to taking that "small" risk.


Speed?
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby TheChewanater » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:21 pm UTC

Speed? The Linux kernel is much faster than the Windows one because it's much less cluttered. The desktop managers are also generally quicker. You also don't need to waste memory and CPU power with AV and antispyware programs. Linux often can even run Windows programs better than Windows does. Windows has no "speed" advantage.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:02 pm UTC

I was explaining why I use Windows without an antivirus as opposed to using Windows with an antivirus. Of course Linux is faster than Windows. But I need to run @RISK and Visual Studio to do real life work.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:43 pm UTC

You could try using an antivirus solution that doesn't kill your speed. Microsoft Security Essentials actually doesn't murder performance, unlike... every other AV program out there? Except Antivirus 2008! THAT'S TOTALLY THE BEST ONE EVER!*

* This is a joke.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby TheChewanater » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:20 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:You could try using an antivirus solution that doesn't kill your speed. Microsoft Security Essentials actually doesn't murder performance, unlike... every other AV program out there? Except Antivirus 2008! THAT'S TOTALLY THE BEST ONE EVER!*

* This is a joke.


Good one. Isn't it 2009, but it was unleashed in 2008? Anyways, yeah. That one's actually not really good.

Anyways, the fact that people would buy (or use the free version of) a program made by Microsoft that prevents their OS from executing certain harmful things just shows how much of slaves you people are to the proprietary world.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby cerbie » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:40 am UTC

TheChewanater wrote:Good one. Isn't it 2009, but it was unleashed in 2008? Anyways, yeah. That one's actually not really good.

Anyways, the fact that people would buy (or use the free version of) a program made by Microsoft that prevents their OS from executing certain harmful things just shows how much of slaves you people are to the proprietary world.
I hate to side with them, but, you know, X crashing does a whole lot more harm than 90% of graphical crashes in Windows Vista or 7. I could see being a slave to that sort of thing, and the Xorg guys need to find a way to rip off that feature, because they will never get X stable enough (however, some type of communication layer for applications, so they can keep running w/o X, and show back up if you start X again...). On one hand, nVidia should have more stable Windows 7 drivers. On the other, X crashing, however rare it usually is, is usually as bad as a hardware crash.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Amnesiasoft » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:39 am UTC

TheChewanater wrote:Good one. Isn't it 2009, but it was unleashed in 2008?

I don't know, my 5 seconds on Google seemed to confirm it was 2008.

As for the quality of MSE, the reviews I've seen of it say it's actually fairly good.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby cerbie » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:07 am UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:
cerbie wrote:
TheChewanater wrote:Good one. Isn't it 2009, but it was unleashed in 2008? Anyways, yeah. That one's actually not really good.

Anyways, the fact that people would buy (or use the free version of) a program made by Microsoft that prevents their OS from executing certain harmful things just shows how much of slaves you people are to the proprietary world.
I hate to side with them, but, you know, X crashing does a whole lot more harm than 90% of graphical crashes in Windows Vista or 7. I could see being a slave to that sort of thing, and the Xorg guys need to find a way to rip off that feature, because they will never get X stable enough (however, some type of communication layer for applications, so they can keep running w/o X, and show back up if you start X again...). On one hand, nVidia should have more stable Windows 7 drivers. On the other, X crashing, however rare it usually is, is usually as bad as a hardware crash.
Not if you're using console apps,
If they talk to the terminal emulator, they can, too. urxvt, FI, being told to shut down generally causes everything started from within the session it is giving you to shut down, too.
or running things in screen like you're should if you expect x to crash.
I generally don't expect it to crash, but screen is generally awesome. TBH, X has never crashed while using screen in a terminal emulator, so I actually don't know what happens, in that case. If I expected X to crash, I would be prepared for it to crash. It's like the Spanish Inquisition, you see.
While this obviously doesn't work for firefox or reading a pdf or irc or chat (Kopete) or music (Aqualung) or any kind of programming (Scite, Kate, Eclipse).
FTFY. Aside: mplayer is a terrible music player. MPD can be used from the command-line, though, and plays music fine. So far, sadly, nothing in Windows 7 seems to allow for long-term skip-free playback.
I also have almost never had X crash except when I was doing something where I had a reasonable expectation for it to happen.
Almost, eh? Unless you're developing something that works at a fairly low level with the X server, there should never be any such expectation. The point is that the side effects aught to be preventable, somehow, and MS has actually done it.
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby phlip » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:49 am UTC

cerbie wrote:On the other, X crashing, however rare it usually is, is usually as bad as a hardware crash.

In the same way that it doesn't matter how unlikely it is that the LHC will destroy the universe, because if it does, the universe will be destroyed, and that's a bad thing?

Of course it matters how rare it usually is, and it's pretty rare. I mean, in the last year or two, I've only had X crash once or twice, and that was while screwing around with the video drivers (so I was expecting it to have troubles).

cerbie wrote:TBH, X has never crashed while using screen in a terminal emulator, so I actually don't know what happens, in that case.

If screen loses its terminal, it'll detach, same as pressing ^A,d. Then it's just a case of running "screen -r" to get it back.

cerbie wrote:Aside: mplayer is a terrible music player.

I'm sorry, but I may have to ask you to step outside.

cerbie wrote:Unless you're developing something that works at a fairly low level with the X server, there should never be any such expectation.

Exactly. And the fact I haven't had a crash except for a couple of years when working at a fairly low level with the X server should bear that out.

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby OOPMan » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:06 am UTC

Although I have experienced the odd X crash, I can't say it's ever been as bad as a Windows BSOD type crash. At worst, X crashing means I lose unsaved work. 95% of the time I just end up in my login manage, 4% of the time I have to change to a text console and init 3, init 5 and only 1% of the time do I have to actually hit the reset button.

Honestly, X is pretty stable.

Of course, this might be because I'm running 2d acceleration only :-)
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby Woegjiub » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:51 pm UTC

I don't understand people saying that windows gets viruses, I've had one and that was bac when I was in highschool, and was stupid enough to go on sites like "warez, cracks, serials".
Pr0n sites do not give viruses, and free antivirus software is available (GPL free, ClamWin is ClamAV for Windows).

I've had about as many X crashes as I have BSODs, but the BSODs were due to problems that I didn't cause (eg: bad ext2 driver causing a MASSIVE memory leak), in comparison to the X crashes, which were all me buggering around trying to get ATi cards to work with KDE's compositing - every single time, I've basically had to reinstall because I don't know how to turn it off without the dialogue.

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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby OOPMan » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:23 pm UTC

Woegjiub wrote:I've had about as many X crashes as I have BSODs, but the BSODs were due to problems that I didn't cause (eg: bad ext2 driver causing a MASSIVE memory leak), in comparison to the X crashes, which were all me buggering around trying to get ATi cards to work with KDE's compositing - every single time, I've basically had to reinstall because I don't know how to turn it off without the dialogue.


Er? Boot into a text console and edit your Xorg.conf file manually and disable the compositing extension?
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Re: Why Windows is better than Linux

Postby EduardoLeon » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:29 pm UTC

Woegjiub wrote:I don't understand people saying that windows gets viruses, I've had one and that was back when I was in highschool, and was stupid enough to go on sites like "warez, cracks, serials".


If you use another operating system, you can visit "warez, cracks, serials" and be statistically safe.

Woegjiub wrote:Pr0n sites do not give viruses, and free antivirus software is available (GPL free, ClamWin is ClamAV for Windows).


Porn sites don't give virus themselves, but the ads they have are infested with worms, trojans and whatnot. And no antivirus (be it free or proprietary) is fast enough to be run in a virtual machine.
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