Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

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Compintuit
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Compintuit » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:10 am UTC

I think windows 7 is currently the best UI in existence. The idea of pinning you're most used apps to the bar is ultimate. There are just a couple things I'd like to change about it, and have it ported to xfce :P

1) Multiple desktops. The main reason for, say, having multiple firefox windows open is to separate tasks, like work and play. Separate tasks are usually done in different desktops, in linux. In win 7, you open a new window of the application, if it has tabs at least, to separate tasks. It is a minor nuisance to open the new window, and a new desktop would serves the purpose much better.
2)The start menu. Besides the fact that is doesn't have an add programs thing like linux (repositories FTW!) it would be great if it used categories similar to linux for apps, so you wouldn't need to search for every app. I mean, the most opened programs is silly, as presumably you've added them to taskbar, and there is no longer a need for programs you want kept there to be at the top part. Oh, and the search function in the start menu should be like gnome-do; with many, many, many functions and opportunity for addons.

But really, I think win 7 blows the competition out of the water ATM. Window peaking, searching at the start menu, uber transparency and movement effects, many functions in the start menu, and the nicest window borders I've ever seen.

What's not to like? (About the UI, I mean - still plenty of reasons to ditch it for linux besides)
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Zamfir
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Zamfir » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:05 pm UTC

Compintuit wrote:Multiple desktops.


yes. Can someone explain why it's not a standard inclusion in Windows?

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Vault
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Vault » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:44 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:
Compintuit wrote:Multiple desktops.


yes. Can someone explain why it's not a standard inclusion in Windows?


It's an attempt to make it less obvious that they're entire UI has been ripped off of Mac or Linux KDE.

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Zamfir
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Zamfir » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:51 pm UTC

Vault wrote:
It's an attempt to make it less obvious that they're entire UI has been ripped off of Mac or Linux KDE.


Is there really anyone who would care enough to make that matter? I mean, "KDE has a nice feature that Windows has not" sounds like a good reason to lean away from Windows. But "Windows has a nice feature that KDE had before" isn't much of a reason to move away from Windows.

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Amnesiasoft
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:58 pm UTC

If people weren't allowed to do something because they didn't do it "first," we'd have a GUI in Windows* and nothing else.

* Yes, I know they stole it from Apple, who in turn stole it from Xerox. But they got it out to consumers first.

shieldforyoureyes
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby shieldforyoureyes » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:29 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:If people weren't allowed to do something because they didn't do it "first," we'd have a GUI in Windows* and nothing else.

* Yes, I know they stole it from Apple, who in turn stole it from Xerox. But they got it out to consumers first.


Apple's Lisa was available to consumers before the first (pre-1.0) version of MS Windows.

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hotaru
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby hotaru » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:47 am UTC

shieldforyoureyes wrote:Apple's Lisa was available to consumers before the first (pre-1.0) version of MS Windows.

it was available, but how many copies of it did apple actually get out to consumers?

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Amnesiasoft
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:49 am UTC

Well, that, and you completely missed my point there, shieldforyoureyes.

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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby shieldforyoureyes » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:47 pm UTC

hotaru wrote:
shieldforyoureyes wrote:Apple's Lisa was available to consumers before the first (pre-1.0) version of MS Windows.

it was available, but how many copies of it did apple actually get out to consumers?


They sold 100,000 Lisas.

Actually, digging a little further... where does the claim that Windows predates the Mac come from?

From what I can find:

1982 - VisiOn
1983 - Lisa
1984 - Mac
1985 - Windows 1.0

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floomby
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby floomby » Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:13 am UTC

For me, it does not make sense at all to combine the running and non-running programs in a way that they look almost identical.

I definitely prefer a taskbar over the dock. I just seems that much clearer to be able to read the name of the program as well as see an icon.

Why is everyone getting excited now about pinning commonly used apps when Windows XP could do this with the QuickLaunch menu in 2001?
...

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Amnesiasoft
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Amnesiasoft » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:10 am UTC

floomby wrote:For me, it does not make sense at all to combine the running and non-running programs in a way that they look almost identical.

Where do people keep getting this "almost identical" thing from. There is a very clear outline around running programs, and if you really want to, the 7 taskbar can expand running programs to have the name on it. There's also the benefit the merging them all means you always go to the same place on the screen for something. Commonly used programs are always in the same place. I want Opera? I go to the first icon on my taskbar, whether it's open or not.

Spoiler'd for widenness.
Spoiler:
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Zamfir
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Zamfir » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:37 am UTC

floomby wrote:Why is everyone getting excited now about pinning commonly used apps when Windows XP could do this with the QuickLaunch menu in 2001?


The nice thing is that it's easy. You have a program running, you think, hey I should pin this, and you can do it in two clicks. Just a lttle less work than making a shortcut, or dragging one from somewhere else. And because it's that little less work, you do it faster for a short while. Your working with a few program this half hour or these few days, you pin them almost automatically.

Sure, it's a small thing, but these kinds of small things are what makes or breaks a UI. Apple for example is very, very good at these kind of small things, it's basically what kept them in business at all.

Woegjiub
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Woegjiub » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:21 am UTC

Firstly, I hate osx immensely.

Now that that is out of the way, I'll get to the point.
The dock and how windows are grouped, and how closing an application doesn't kill it... Stupid.
I personally prefer krunner+plasma (taskbar, a few apps, a system tray).

Sure, it's exactly how I had windows XP set up, but I find that it's better.
I have a separate panel hidden on the far left with application icons for launchers, but I would really like it if KDE could implement the pinning feature from windows 7.
My main qualm with the pinning feature is that it keeps the applications in the same order, whereas I feel that a quicklaunch which removes the icon when an instance is running could be better.
Something like 4-5 icons, for the most used applications, and a couple of file shortcuts (my desktop never has icons) plus a run dialogue... the perfect setup.

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Zamfir
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Zamfir » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:25 am UTC

Woegjiub wrote:Something like 4-5 icons, for the most used applications, and a couple of file shortcuts (my desktop never has icons) plus a run dialogue... the perfect setup.

That sounds a lot like Windows' start menu...

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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Woegjiub » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:00 am UTC

Zamfir wrote:That sounds a lot like Windows' start menu...

Not really, I mean located in the quicklaunch location, next to my desktop pager.
lancelot is the menu I prefer over all others, it's really quite great.

EnEn
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby EnEn » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:45 pm UTC

I liked Ubuntu, but I wasn't able to get it to run the way I wanted without considerable effort, so I almost always use the Vista partition. I have done some tweaks though. First, I killed the start button, because I have one on my keyboard. I also hide as many taskbar icons as possible. This allows me to fit more programs. When I run out space I open VirtuaWin and start moving stuff around. Oo type stuff on one desktop, music and fun stuff on another, research on another etc. etc.. I also made a Samurize config to make use of the space that is typically wasted above a window. I have stuff like time and date, weather, song, some quicklinks, and performance monitors up there. I rearranged the start menu a ton, but typically don't even care how it looks because I just use the search line for 95% of miscellaneous crap. One of the recent Vista updates turned the search into a major resource hog and I had to disable parts of it so my computer wouldn't be overrun. Now the search is really slow for anything but programs and that pisses me off. I don't know what they did, but it used to work slick and now it doesn't. I'll probably get rid of any quick links always in view, because I use keyboard shortcuts for opening any common programs anyways.

...anyone know how to salvage my beloved search?

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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Woegjiub » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:35 am UTC

I don't know about the search, but I can suggest that you install the latest KDE.
Gnome is old, ugly and slow.
KDE is far more customizable, looks better, runs faster (in my experience), and everything is integrated so much more nicely into the theming - it's basically like the best from Compiz, KDE3, OSX and Win7's appearances mixed all together into one awesome, amazing thing.

Xbehave
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby Xbehave » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:00 pm UTC

Compintuit wrote:I think windows 7 is currently the best UI in existence. The idea of pinning you're most used apps to the bar is ultimate. There are just a couple things I'd like to change about it, and have it ported to xfce :P

Wow, you just fell in love with the quicklauncher in kde3, how does it feel to live circa 2002.
Why is everyone getting excited now about pinning commonly used apps when Windows XP could do this with the QuickLaunch menu in 2001?

That sounds a lot like Windows' start menu...

No the buttons are straight on the pannel ("taskbar"), so its like windows quicklaunch buttons but dynamicly changes according to most used/most recently used/static choices

Window peaking, uber transparency and movement effects, and the nicest window borders I've ever seen.

Wow, you just fell in love with compiz, how does it feel to also live circa 2006

searching at the start menu, many functions in the start menu

Welcome to the present, however kde4s launcher blows the crap out of windows7 search, in any launcher (alt+f2, widget, etc, anywhere except from start menu atm) you can search documents, internet,history,bookmarks contact, music collections, applications, launch commands, do maths, spellcheck, use knoqueror keywords, do powermanagement (e.g dim screen, suspend, etc). What is particularly great is it is done unix style so each app provides their shortcuts then the launcher just puts them together :D

this is not to say windows7 isn't good but all of the amazing new features have been around for quite some time (well apart from kde4s launcher)

Personally im not a fan of combining running & non-running apps, but if thats your thing look at kde-apps.org, smooth tasks (or one of its forks offers this), personally i hope it makes it into mainline in some form because i only want to see app icons(ala kasbar) no need to waste space on the names
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cerbie
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Re: Mac Docks vs. Windows Taskbar

Postby cerbie » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:04 am UTC

Xbehave wrote:Wow, you just fell in love with compiz, how does it feel to also live circa 2006
Except that Windows Vista and 7 didn't crash the windowing system all the time, killing your applications, like pre-0.8 Compiz. So that's more like late 2008.

I dislike the dock and taskbar. Both eat up valuable vertical space, don't offer anything I need, and taskbars aligned vertically are not Fitt's law friendly (as large icons only, the dock doesn't suffer that, but AFAIK, vertical alignment is not officially supported by Apple). Here's what my desktop looks like, since Conky and Compiz haven't been liking each other, lately*. Tags are good (Awesome, Xmonad, etc.), Easy-to-manage workspaces rock (like Expo), as does the combination of workspaces and workspace-independent iconification (*Step, E17, etc.). If I could do E17-like iconification in Compiz, that'd be almost perfect.

* Compiz, with no DE. Expo bound to top-left corner and alt-`, Application-switcher to alt-tab/shift-alt-tab, move and resize set to alt=left/right, and others changed to sane key combos, since I hope to never have a Windows ("Super") key. Lately I've been using more workspaces, instead of the Scale plugin. The only animation I use is fade, and other plugins are set to animate the fastest I can manage w/o them bugging out.
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