Proper Orientation (of TP)

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Proper orientation of toilet paper

Over
74
82%
Under
12
13%
Undecided
4
4%
 
Total votes: 90

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Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Tue May 17, 2011 1:46 am UTC

There is exactly one correct way, and that is over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper_orientation

(move this if it is the wrong sub-forum, etc…)
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby KittenKaboodle » Tue May 17, 2011 3:21 am UTC

While it is true that there is exactly one correct way, despite posting a link to relavant information, cjmcjmcjmcjm has somehow got it backwards. I don't mean that to sound critical, after all most surveys show that the majority of people have got it wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_paper_orientation#Survey_results
Wikipedia wrote:Under reduces the risk that a toddler or a house pet, such as a dog or cat, will completely unroll the toilet paper when batting at the roll.


EDIT: found a demonstration at the CheezburgerNetwork: http://www.viddler.com/explore/cheezburger/videos/1710/
Last edited by KittenKaboodle on Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:33 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby scarecrovv » Tue May 17, 2011 4:25 am UTC

I prefer over, but my resolve is weak on this matter. Put forth your greatest arguments. Sway me to the one true virtuous side. 3, 2, 1, GO!

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby EvanED » Tue May 17, 2011 5:26 am UTC

Over, except in the presence of said undomesticated animals. Then under is acceptable.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby AvatarIII » Tue May 17, 2011 12:48 pm UTC

over, i just think it looks better, i guess it looks more like you are being passed the TP rather than under, in which the dispenser looks like it's holding it away from you.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby squareroot » Thu May 19, 2011 3:06 am UTC

I have two cats, have always lived with at least one - never seen one batting the toilet paper roll. Yes, they've been kittens. They've never been declawed. So... :?: :?: :?: Over.
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby Samik » Thu May 26, 2011 7:19 pm UTC

Oh, you poor, misguided souls. I don't know what malevolent entity has been parading around and selling everyone on its bastard agenda, but please, allow me to set things right.


If your argument is one of aesthetics, underhand arrangement has an en enormous advantage in that, when rolled tightly, and separated crisply, the roll can give the appearance of an unblemished cylinder, with no dangling end immediately visible whatsoever.

If your argument is one of functionality and efficiency, then again underhand wins: when gripping the paper from behind and underneath the roll, and then pulling forward, upwards and to the side, considerably more friction is achieved between the loose end and the roll than when simply pulling forward from the overhand position. In the case of an unusually freely rotating bar, this can entirely spare you those annoying excessive unravelings, no matter how carelessly you tug.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby phlip » Sat May 28, 2011 1:06 am UTC

Samik wrote:If your argument is one of aesthetics, underhand arrangement has an en enormous advantage in that, when rolled tightly, and separated crisply, the roll can give the appearance of an unblemished cylinder, with no dangling end immediately visible whatsoever.

But this is a bug, not a feature... it means when you come to use it, you need to hunt around for the end, spinning the roll a bunch until you find it. With overhand, you don't have to, as 99% of the time the end will be in a plainly-visible location, ready for you to just grab. Arguing for this on the grounds of aesthetics is like arguing for Apple products - sure, 75% of the features are missing, but at least it looks shiny.

Samik wrote:If your argument is one of functionality and efficiency, then again underhand wins: when gripping the paper from behind and underneath the roll, and then pulling forward, upwards and to the side, considerably more friction is achieved between the loose end and the roll than when simply pulling forward from the overhand position. In the case of an unusually freely rotating bar, this can entirely spare you those annoying excessive unravelings, no matter how carelessly you tug.

I've heard this claim before, but it doesn't make much sense. Firstly, the whole thing is rotationally symmetric, that's kind of the point. Aside from gravity, everything is going to be identical pulling from a different direction on a different orientation. And gravity itself isn't going to do much on something as light as TP. It doesn't matter what direction you pull it, it's going to behave about the same. Anyway, it's not friction that's relevant to this question... the whole "pull hard so that it breaks before the roll starts spinning, because if it does start spinning it won't stop for a while" thing is clearly a question not of friction, but of inertia. And the roll's moment of intertia is going to be identical regardless of what direction you pull on it, gravity being completely irrelevant, not just mostly irrelevant.

Besides, who actually tears their toilet paper in this way? It seems like it would be asking for trouble, especially as the roll shrinks and the moment of inertia goes down. The sane way is to realise that you have two hands, and to use one hand to hold the roll (just pressing down on the top is simple enough), and the other to pull on the end. And when done this way, the overhand orientation gives you easier control of where it tears... as there's less distance of paper between your two hands that way, whereas with the underhand orientation there's a whole half-loop behind the roll it could break on.

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby Samik » Sat May 28, 2011 1:19 am UTC

Regarding the first point, you're refuting my point about aesthetics with one about functionality. There's a reason I separated my consideration of the topic into two sections; I'm not an apple fan, but I do understand that, to some people, aesthetics are important. Even important enough to give up a tiny bit of functionality.

Thus, while your point has validity, it's not strictly speaking a response to mine.



I will get back to you about the functionality side of things. Not up for it just at the moment.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby FrancovS » Tue May 31, 2011 8:27 pm UTC

Well, it's not really about inertia. The idea is to hold the roll in place with your palm/wrist and pull it with your fingers. It's unwieldy to do when the paper is in the over position.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby bytbox » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:38 am UTC

Over.

(From w/p)

In a more traditional preliminary survey of 1,000 Americans, Cottonelle found that "overs" are more likely than "unders" to notice a roll's direction (74%), to be annoyed when the direction is incorrect (24%), and to have flipped the direction at a friend's home (27%).


Annoying: no basis for comparison is given. More annoying: there's no logical reason for a difference, and the reason cited by the cited article (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/america-sides-with-tori-spelling-rolls-over-86810867.html):

According to Dr. Gilda, "People who roll over like taking charge, crave organization and are likely to overachieve. It seems to me that Americans are passionate about rolling over due to the sense of control that it gives them."


Yeah. Right. But y'know, the toilet paper really goes "over" either way - let's call them "forward" and "backward". Then we get: "People who roll forward are aggressive, crave a good fight and are likely to get killed on the streets. It seems to me that Americans are passionate about rolling forward due to their desire for aggressive conflict."

Also, tiny dust from tearing the TP tends to collect on the wall - so it looks dusty, therefore I don't really want the TP rubbing it. (Despite the fact that I'm aware that the dust is just TP.)

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby Queen Serenity » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:33 am UTC

I like having the roll over because it doesn't accidentally rip on me. :(

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby troyp » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:47 pm UTC

...when did "TP" become a recognized acronym for "toilet paper" and who forgot to tell me?
Wait, is this some American thing? Do Americans not like to say the word "toilet"?
</off-topic>

over - especially in a public toilet where you don't want your hand brushing the grubby wall.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby AvatarIII » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:51 pm UTC

troyp wrote:...when did "TP" become a recognized acronym for "toilet paper" and who forgot to tell me?
Wait, is this some American thing? Do Americans not like to say the word "toilet"?
</off-topic>

over - especially in a public toilet where you don't want your hand brushing the grubby wall.


yeah i think it's american, took me years to work out that "Teepeeing a house" meant throwing bogroll over it

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby hotaru » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:23 pm UTC

troyp wrote:Do Americans not like to say the word "toilet"?

no, it's just shorter (two syllables instead of four).

troyp wrote:over - especially in a public toilet where you don't want your hand brushing the grubby wall.

is this some british thing? do britishes not clean their toilets? :P

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby troyp » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:01 pm UTC

hotaru wrote:
troyp wrote:over - especially in a public toilet where you don't want your hand brushing the grubby wall.

is this some british thing? do britishes not clean their toilets? :P

lol, I'm not British. Could be an Australian thing, I guess, but I figured it was just a government thing where councils don't clean their toilets (well, that's an exaggeration, but they can be pretty awful sometimes).

edit:
hotaru wrote:
troyp wrote:Do Americans not like to say the word "toilet"?

no, it's just shorter (two syllables instead of four).

It's just that it occurred to me that Americans *don't* seem to say "toilet". They say stuff like "little girl's room (which is ridiculous - why would a toilet be more associated with a little girl than a grown women?) or "bathroom" (which is fine if you happen to know that "the bathroom" and "the toilet" are coreferential terms, but that's not true in general). It seems to be one of their bizarre euphemisms :-).

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby hotaru » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:03 am UTC

troyp wrote:It's just that it occurred to me that Americans *don't* seem to say "toilet". They say stuff like "little girl's room (which is ridiculous - why would a toilet be more associated with a little girl than a grown women?) or "bathroom" (which is fine if you happen to know that "the bathroom" and "the toilet" are coreferential terms, but that's not true in general). It seems to be one of their bizarre euphemisms :-).

in american english, "toilet" is the thing you sit on, not the room that it's in.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby EvanED » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:08 am UTC

hotaru wrote:
troyp wrote:It's just that it occurred to me that Americans *don't* seem to say "toilet". They say stuff like "little girl's room (which is ridiculous - why would a toilet be more associated with a little girl than a grown women?) or "bathroom" (which is fine if you happen to know that "the bathroom" and "the toilet" are coreferential terms, but that's not true in general). It seems to be one of their bizarre euphemisms :-).

in american english, "toilet" is the thing you sit on, not the room that it's in.

Exactly. You're just as unlikely to hear "I'll be at the oven" (instead of "I'll be in the kitchen") as "I'll be on the toilet" (instead of "I'll be in the bathroom"). It's not that we have any weird aversion to "oven" either.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby troyp » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:36 am UTC

Really? Huh. Well that explains why you don't say it, but then what *is* the name of the room over there? Is it just a bathroom, even if there's no bath?
edit: actually, the room does have its own name everywhere, doesn't it? it's a "lavatory"...but no-one really says "can I use your lavatory?".

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby phlip » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:56 pm UTC

It's not like "toilet" is any less of a euphemism... it's just further down the treadmill. And from a different language, that helps to hide it.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:33 pm UTC

troyp wrote:Really? Huh. Well that explains why you don't say it, but then what *is* the name of the room over there? Is it just a bathroom, even if there's no bath?
edit: actually, the room does have its own name everywhere, doesn't it? it's a "lavatory"...but no-one really says "can I use your lavatory?".


or a Water Closet (WC) but that's even less used than lavatory (although you do occasionally see WC signs on Toilet doors in old buildings)

In UK English, I'd say the word "toilet" isn't really the name for the room either, when you say you are going to the toilet, you mean it as you are going to the item called the toilet, not the room called the toilet, it's essentially a euphamism for urinating/defacating. The room is sometimes called "the toilets" when it is in a public place, simply because there is nothing else to call it, (you could call it the sinks or tha basins i guess :lol: )

if anything the only Americanism for "toilet room" i can get behind is "restroom"

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby EvanED » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:40 pm UTC

Might I suggest a new term: the pooproom.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:42 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:Might I suggest a new term: the pooproom.



what about in the presence of urinals?

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby EvanED » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:47 pm UTC

I don't think I've ever seen a room with urinals but no stalls. But feel free to substitute "peeroom" if that's what you need at that particular point in time.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:51 pm UTC

EvanED wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a room with urinals but no stalls. But feel free to substitute "peeroom" if that's what you need at that particular point in time.


this is a good point i suppose, it's just that saying "i'm going to the pooproom" sounds like "i'm going to poop" but if you are not going to poop, when you are back in less than 2 minutes people may begin to suspect you do not wipe at all! :lol:

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby troyp » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:10 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:In UK English, I'd say the word "toilet" isn't really the name for the room either, when you say you are going to the toilet, you mean it as you are going to the item called the toilet, not the room called the toilet, it's essentially a euphamism for urinating/defacating. The room is sometimes called "the toilets" when it is in a public place, simply because there is nothing else to call it, (you could call it the sinks or tha basins i guess :lol: )

I'm pretty sure the room is called "the toilet" here, although I guess you don't hear it very often. But my family and my partner and other people I've heard say it all use the term, eg "in the cupboard under the sink in the toilet". Of course, I've no doubt it originated with the usage you described.

EvanED wrote:Might I suggest a new term: the pooproom.

Well, we kind of say that here, except we say "shithouse" (well, I don't, but people slightly coarser than I do).

( I apologize for derailing this thread from toilet-paper-orientation-warring. )

edit: having disabled smilies in my posting prefs, I notice phpBB doesn't respect a quoted user's preferences: they just get overridden by the quoters'

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:09 am UTC

EvanED wrote:
hotaru wrote:
troyp wrote:It's just that it occurred to me that Americans *don't* seem to say "toilet". They say stuff like "little girl's room (which is ridiculous - why would a toilet be more associated with a little girl than a grown women?) or "bathroom" (which is fine if you happen to know that "the bathroom" and "the toilet" are coreferential terms, but that's not true in general). It seems to be one of their bizarre euphemisms :-).

in american english, "toilet" is the thing you sit on, not the room that it's in.

Exactly. You're just as unlikely to hear "I'll be at the oven" (instead of "I'll be in the kitchen") as "I'll be on the toilet" (instead of "I'll be in the bathroom"). It's not that we have any weird aversion to "oven" either.

I skipped the rest of the thread after I saw this, so it may already have been answered. The term "bathroom" doesn't make sense when there is no bath (or even a shower!). I use the term "restroom," or "W.C.," depending on which side of the pond I'm on.
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby EvanED » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:51 am UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:I skipped the rest of the thread after I saw this, so it may already have been answered. The term "bathroom" doesn't make sense when there is no bath (or even a shower!). I use the term "restroom," or "W.C.," depending on which side of the pond I'm on.

Eh, while true, I'm not sure there's a substantially better term in common use. "Restroom" is only a little better -- I'm not really going there to rest. And "WC" is just a bit weird on a couple counts. Hence my suggestion for "pooproom" (or perhaps "toilet room"). One exception is the informal "loo" -- you can't really deconstruct it like you can "bathroom" or "restroom" or "WC" (or at least it's harder), so it can't be wrong. And of course there's the formal "lavatory."

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:49 am UTC

I can't believe I forgot the term "loo." I must've not hung around people of high enough class during my semester in the UK for long enough to pick up on that one.
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby KestrelLowing » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:28 pm UTC

So, another derailing question: In not-america, what do you say when you're selling your house/whatever and you're trying to say how many bathrooms their are? It's pretty common to have "1-and-a-half baths" listed. (Meaning one full bathroom - shower/tub and toilet and one with just a toilet and sink)

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby phlip » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:00 am UTC

That notation confused me for ages, until I figured out that a toilet is sorta like a very small bath. I guess you could call it a "half-bath" if you were prone to exaggeration. I'm not entirely sure why you'd want to bathe in one, but I guess some American customs are unknowable.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby GenericAnimeBoy » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:50 am UTC

I hang my TP roll whichever way I happen to grab it out of the package. I just don't care that much, I guess... :roll:

I try to avoid public toilets whenever possible, but most of the ones I've seen have enclosed TP holders that only work properly in the "over" configuration.
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby Anonymously Famous » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:54 pm UTC

I used to care - I was an "under'' guy. Now I don't, though. It serves the same function no matter what orientation on the roll it might have.

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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby Jplus » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:24 pm UTC

I find 'over' a bit more intuitive and I think that when I'm 'in charge' I'll generally hang it such (though I'm not sure whether I always do that). Apart from that, I really don't care and most of the time I'm even unaware of a roll's orientation. So I voted undecided.
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Re: Proper Orientation (of TP)

Postby Zizoo » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:37 pm UTC

Only matters if the TP is against a wall or irritatingly-built rack or the like that would make under-oriented TP harder to grab. Then over. That being said, I voted over, because voting undecided seemed too wishy-washy.

Though, I suppose could see doing under if it's kept in a rack with a perforated (or at least lifted) base, for the sake of easier tearing.


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