Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Please compose all posts in Emacs.

Moderators: phlip, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Wildcard
Candlestick!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:42 am UTC
Location: Outside of the box

Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Wildcard » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:05 am UTC

Derek wrote:
Wildcard wrote:Also, I once had to help a friend print something on a Windows 8 machine, and it took me about 30 minutes to figure it out and make it work. PITA. :roll:

There, rant over.

What were you trying to print? File -> Print (or ctrl+P) should work on just about every application. This has been standard since at least Windows 95.

It's been a while, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but I think it was a network printer attached to a different machine (a Windows 7 machine?) in the office. Or something like that. Driver problems? Not sure.

But yeah, it wasn't the printing that was difficult, it was setting up the printer to be usable from that computer.

Oh, and I do remember this: The error messages I got along the way were among the least helpful I have ever seen in my life.
There's no such thing as a funny sig.

User avatar
cjmcjmcjmcjm
Posts: 1158
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 am UTC
Location: Anywhere the internet is strong

Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:51 am UTC

Wildcard wrote:I'm disgusted with Windows 8, and further, I think the covert downloading of ~6GB of "updates" in the background on Windows 7 machines followed by an extraordinarily persistent, almost unremovable nag box to suggest upgrading to Windows 10, is more evidence that Microsoft doesn't play nice with people who actually want to be in charge of their computers.

For my own use I have Mac OS 10.7.4, which I never plan to upgrade, and I have virtual boxes running CentOS 6 and 7, and Ubuntu 14.04, for testing and other purposes.

If I replace my iPod I'll probably do it with an Android phone (maybe a Nexus?) and if/when this computer finally dies...although I have two full bootable backups made with CarbonCopyCloner...I'm not sure what I'll do. I do love Apple hardware (for one thing their trackpads are better than anyone else's) but I don't like Apple or Microsoft deciding how I MUST do things on my computer.

Also, I once had to help a friend print something on a Windows 8 machine, and it took me about 30 minutes to figure it out and make it work. PITA. :roll:

There, rant over.

Why don't you want to update your Mac?
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark

DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.

commodorejohn
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:21 pm UTC
Location: Placerville, CA
Contact:

Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:02 am UTC

Loathe Windows 8. It's an absolute mess of an attempt to weld a tablet UI onto a desktop OS, carries forward several of 7's mistakes (God damn do I wish the "ribbon" would just die a richly-deserved death already,) and breaks the Alt-Tab list (windows no longer go to the back of the list when minimized, so you have to manually bubble-sort them out of the way!) On top of which it's just ugly as sin. Like some kind of unholy Soviet Brutalist version of a Playskool toy.

Shame, because overall performance and reliability is pretty good. But I only have so much tolerance for terrible UI and pointless bullshit, and Win8 is way on the other side of that line.
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
www.commodorejohn.com - in case you were wondering, which you probably weren't.

User avatar
Wildcard
Candlestick!
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:42 am UTC
Location: Outside of the box

Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Wildcard » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:57 am UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:Why don't you want to update your Mac?

I haven't looked closely into the most recent OS updates (Yosemite, El Capitan) after I was turned off by dumb small things that got broken in Lion, Mountain Lion and Mavericks.

Spoiler'd for off topic and length:
Spoiler:
Back in Snow Leopard (10.6) the address book had a killer UI, was extremely powerful and functional. You could have a three-column view with a list of groups, a list of contacts in the selected group, and the details of the selected contact. It was great. Lion (10.7) came along with much-touted "address book UI improvements" and guess what? No more three-column view. At all. Period. You can view *one* column at a time (I kid you not) or you can view two columns—either groups and contacts, or contacts and details. This is so the address book can have a pretty theme to look like an actual address book—which of course can only have two pages side by side, not three. Just dumb retrogression for the sake of prettiness.

Mountain Lion (10.8) then gets promoted with three-panel address book viewing clearly visible in the screenshots. Yay, new feature! Oh wait, that's the feature they took out in the last upgrade....

On the one hand it's nice that they listened to the complaints (I guess) and brought back the feature, but WTF?

I didn't upgrade from 10.7.4 to 10.7.5 because (a) That upgrade would have introduced Gatekeeper, which from what I read about it wouldn't be of any assistance to me and might conceivably be very annoying; (b) The main reason is because it required an upgrade to Safari, which I was using at the time, and that upgrade would have removed the beautiful RSS integration that Safari has had. You could have RSS feeds added to your bookmark bar and it would discreetly show a number next to each RSS link of how many unread items there were in that RSS feed. Not only that, but if you had several RSS feeds in a menu on your bookmark bar, the sum of unread feed items for all submenu links would be shown directly on your bookmark bar. Since then I've moved to using Vienna for my RSS feeds anyways (and now I use Google Chrome rather than Safari), but I haven't run across any compelling reason to upgrade to 10.7.5.

I might have upgraded to 10.8 (Mountain Lion), except that was a $30 upgrade and I had no reason to do it. (Mavericks — 10.9 — was the first OS upgrade they provided free of charge. They've all been free since then, which is smart as well as nice.) I don't remember if anything got broken in the Mountain Lion upgrade. (I researched it rather a lot before deciding not to do it; there may have been some issue. Also my mom's Mac Mini came with Mountain Lion and of course I'm her Tech Support as always.) iTunes may have been dumbed down and reduced in functionality in 10.8—the version I have is incredibly powerful for organizing music and playlists (which is the whole point) but later versions have been steadily dumbed down and prettied up from what I've seen. Don't remember if that started in 10.8 or 10.9 though.

10.9 introduced a very very sneaky retrogression under the guise of "progress" that I would have missed if I hadn't been on high alert by that time, after the address book and Safari breakages described above. (I don't know if you've ever experienced trying to revert a Mac OS upgrade? Unless you have CarbonCopyCloner—which I didn't at that time but do now—it's almost impossible. Hence I was looking up every negative forum post I could find about 10.9 to see if any of them would be important to me.)

iTunes has always been able to sync with your iPod. That's the whole point. (Or at least the original point.) It also syncs your contacts and calendar (if you want to). This is very handy. No problems with it. It's a working feature. There's also iCloud syncing, where Apple stores your data (music or contacts or calendar or what have you) so you don't have to plug in a cable to sync, but that's always been optional.

In 10.9, the possibility to sync your contacts and calendar between your iPod and your iTunes over a physical cable was removed.

Completely gone. No workaround possible. If you want to run Mavericks and have the same contact details and the same calendar of appointments available on your iPod and your Mac, you have no choice but to upload all of your contacts' details and all your appointment details to Apple's iCloud servers. And we all know (found out later, actually) how secure those iCloud servers are....

(There's one potential workaround that was mentioned very rarely and I couldn't tell from others' posts if it even worked, which would be to set up your own personal address book syncing server on a separate computer running the paid Mavericks OS X Server, and sync your contacts and calendar from that. Extremely difficult to set up and not even clear if it's at all possible.)

That was the deal breaker for me installing Mavericks and that's when I stopped paying attention to Apple OS upgrades.

I'm a power user. I have at least three Vagrant boxes running on my computer at any given time. I have Better Touch Tool and have my trackpad gestures customized to the Nth degree, and I have Alfred (the paid version—worth it) and have custom searches set up for everything I could possibly need. I can look things up with my computer about 10X faster than I can (or than anyone I've ever seen can) with a Windows computer. I can't have things breaking all the time for the sake of prettiness.

</rant>

Thanks for asking, that was good to vent about. :)

It's worth emphasizing that my frustrations have all been related to upgrades that remove features. The features present in Mac OS X Lion (what I have now) are perfectly fine for my needs—but if I could be assured that nothing would break, I would be extremely happy to upgrade to the latest stuff. Things like Finder tags (and iTunes tags also for that matter) do look extremely nice and I'd be happy to have them. I think Apple is doing a decent job overall, but as a power user I need to have confidence that my stuff will work (including that my current stuff will continue to work), and I need to have control over what does and what doesn't go online. (Ubuntu's default built-in online search is ominous, but at least it has an "off" switch.)

commodorejohn wrote:...the Alt-Tab list (windows no longer go to the back of the list when minimized, so you have to manually bubble-sort them out of the way!)

That's one thing I really like about Mac vs. Windows—Mission Control. (As of Mac OS Lion, which is what I have.) And, the "alt-tab" list has two parts—Command-tab cycles between applications, while Command-` cycles between windows within the current application. So useful.
There's no such thing as a funny sig.

commodorejohn
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:21 pm UTC
Location: Placerville, CA
Contact:

Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:25 pm UTC

Wildcard wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:...the Alt-Tab list (windows no longer go to the back of the list when minimized, so you have to manually bubble-sort them out of the way!)

And, the "alt-tab" list has two parts—Command-tab cycles between applications, while Command-` cycles between windows within the current application. So useful.

Yeah, that's a nifty feature. BeOS and Haiku do this as well. Not sure if there's a *nix WM that displays similar behavior - I think WindowMaker can be configured for it, but I've never dug around enough to find out how well that works.
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
www.commodorejohn.com - in case you were wondering, which you probably weren't.

Iranon
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:30 am UTC

Re: Do you like or hate Windows 8?

Postby Iranon » Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:09 pm UTC

FVWM certainly can.
I love how you can add the nice tricks of more "modern" interfaces and leave out what annoys you, and add your own quirks (for example: mouse gestures for predifined window positions, exchange window positions by midclick-dragging one over the other).
LEGO won't be ready for the average user until it comes pre-assembled, in a single unified theme, and glued together so it doesn't come apart.


Return to “Religious Wars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests