Google Search vs Bing

Please compose all posts in Emacs.

Moderators: phlip, Moderators General, Prelates

Which scored better for you in the blind test?

Google
106
95%
Bing
4
4%
Draw
2
2%
 
Total votes: 112

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:57 pm UTC

Bing did a thing where they stripped the branding off the two websites then did "blind tests" and claimed that Bing won by a large margin. http://www.bing.com/community/site_blog ... lenge.aspx
Spoiler:
Since we launched Bing, we’ve conducted ongoing tests to measure our relevancy, assess customer feedback and satisfaction, and examine our product in many different ways. A while ago, we began to notice an interesting trend - Bing was beating Google in our search relevancy tests. After carefully following the trend data for several months, we decided to commission an independent study to test which web search results people prefer.

You may be surprised: the research shows that people chose Bing web search results over Google nearly 2:1 in blind comparison tests. People are surprised because of how deeply the Google habit is ingrained in most searchers—they are responding based on their habits rather than the facts.

We built our Bing It On campaign to share these results with you and demonstrate that people can get better web search results on Bing than Google. With Bing It On, we’re encouraging you to try Bing – whether you’re a first time customer or an occasional visitor. You may be surprised at what Bing offers and how it can help you spend less time searching and more time doing.

How was the test conducted? An independent research company, Answers Research based in San Diego, CA, conducted a study using a representative online sample of nearly 1000 people, ages 18 and older from across the US. The participants were chosen from a random survey panel and were required to have used a major search engine in the past month. Participants were not aware that Microsoft was involved.

In the test, participants were shown the main web search results pane of both Bing and Google for 10 search queries of their choice. Bing and Google search results were shown side-by-side on one page for easy comparison – with all branding removed from both search engines. The test did not include ads or content in other parts of the page such as Bing’s Snapshot and Social Search panes and Google’s Knowledge Graph. For each search, the participant was asked which search engine provided the best results – “Left side search engine”, “Right side search engine”, or “Draw.” After each participant performed 10 searches, their votes were totaled to determine the winner (Bing, Google or Draw, in the case of a tie).

When the results were tallied, the outcome was clear – people chose Bing web search results over Google nearly 2:1 in the blind comparison tests. Specifically, of the nearly 1000 participants: 57.4% chose Bing more often, 30.2% chose Google more often; 12.4 % resulted in a draw.*

Why did we think a blind comparison test of the pure web search results would be valuable? Because it is the best way to really test the quality of web search results where the majority of clicks occur – without the influence of the ingrained, habitual impact of the Google brand. Now you know there is a better alternative to Google.

You can take a similar test yourself at Bing.com. It’s time to see what you’ve been missing.

- The Bing Team

*The overall sampling error rate for the study is +/- 3 percent at the 95 percent confidence level.


You can take the test yourself on http://bingiton.com

Not surprisingly, Google won for me. I took the test several times and Bing never won. Also, I went on Bing and it's site isn't as good as Google's.

So, Google search vs Bing, which is better?
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby ahammel » Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:54 pm UTC

Google won for me too. Do we have any assurances that MS aren't cooking the data?
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
bantler
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:23 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby bantler » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:27 pm UTC

Bing always has a pretty picture...

copy/paste your results

havarti Google
semiphore Google
bing Google
google Bing
flatulence Google

EvanED
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:28 am UTC
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby EvanED » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:33 pm UTC

I haven't tried the blind test yet; I'll do that over times when I need an actual web search so it's real results.

But I did set Bing as my default search for a while, because I wanted to give it a fair shake (I actually really wanted it to be better than Google) and I wasn't really happy. So we'll see what happens.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:34 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:Google won for me too. Do we have any assurances that MS aren't cooking the data?

No not really. But it seems like it wouldn't repeatedly tell me I like Google better if it was a fraud. And I did a few double checks where I searched for the same terms after I picked one and it seemed to play out ok. It seems unlikely to me that they would cook the data because if they got caught in dishonest practices like that it'd be pretty bad PR, and I know a lot of people will double check them.

Bing may have a pretty picture but Google pulls up search results as I type.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:36 pm UTC

bantler wrote:Bing always has a pretty picture...

copy/paste your results

havarti Google
semiphore Google
bing Google
google Bing
flatulence Google

Lol. I find that amusing.

I don't think you were doing realistic searches. I did some realistic searches like trying to pull up spec sheets for certain hardware.

EDIT: Current score in my poll?
Google 5
Bing 0
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
bantler
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:23 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby bantler » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:48 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
bantler wrote:Bing always has a pretty picture...

copy/paste your results

havarti Google
semiphore Google
bing Google
google Bing
flatulence Google

Lol. I find that amusing.

I don't think you were doing realistic searches. I did some realistic searches like trying to pull up spec sheets for certain hardware.


I judged as fairly as possible assuming I needed info on the given subject. Their divisive treatment of the misspelling is interesting.

Derek
Posts: 2147
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Derek » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:11 pm UTC

Google won in a shut out for me. As I recall my queries were:

Map reduce
Tribes: Ascend
Punching in a Dream
Kokoro connect
Half-Life speedrun

EDIT: I will say though, that despite consistently picking Google, I thought both search engines gave very good results. My choice typically hinged on minor things, like the Wikipedia page being one or two results higher in the list.

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby sourmìlk » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:38 am UTC

The results were largely the same. When considering which search engine to use, I don't actually consider the search features, because I expect those to be mostly identical. I like Google because it can do arbitrary unit conversions (e.g. "1 acre in tablespoons per lightyear", or more practically, "3 gigabytes / 30 megabits per second") and other crazy shit like that, and also because it integrates well with other google software.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:36 pm UTC

I find it interesting no one has voted for bing yet.

One thing I like about Google is the way they group forum results, eg "More results from forums.xkcd.com »". Bing appeared to not do that.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

lorb
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:34 am UTC
Location: Austria

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby lorb » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:37 pm UTC

google:draw:bing = 2:3:0

aside from that I don't really consider bing to be googles nr.1 rival in quality
Please be gracious in judging my english. (I am not a native speaker/writer.)
http://decodedarfur.org/

User avatar
sam_i_am
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:38 pm UTC
Location: Urbana, Illinois, USA

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby sam_i_am » Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:55 pm UTC

I got 1-1-3 for google-bing-draw


One thing that i noticed on one of my searches(the one the bing won, in fact) is that i spelled a word wrong, and the typical google "did you mean" language wasn't in either box. instead one box used the misspelling, and the other queried based on what the correct spelling was.

So, I think that microsoft is kinda giving themselves an advantage with that one

I'm going to do it one more time, except wait a bit for the actual need to search something.

User avatar
Wnderer
Posts: 640
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:10 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Wnderer » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:05 pm UTC

4 Google and 1 Draw. I was rooting for Bing, but I know if I'm looking for anything technical, an error message, a python library or component spec, only google works. I also have links to dogpile, altavista and duckduckgo but they just don't work as well as google.

User avatar
sam_i_am
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:38 pm UTC
Location: Urbana, Illinois, USA

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby sam_i_am » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:16 pm UTC

Here are my results of trying to pick google on purpose every time using suggested search options

car rental-----------Google
games-------------- Google
calculator----------Google
free music----------Google
unemployment----Google

Is it a problem if i can already identify which is which?

User avatar
sam_i_am
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:38 pm UTC
Location: Urbana, Illinois, USA

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby sam_i_am » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:31 pm UTC

bingiton.com--------------------Google
c# regex escape sequences---Google

rtr spoilers-----------------------Google
I wasn't going to not smo...---Draw
javascript guide----------------Google

Microsoft, I am dissapoint

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:57 pm UTC

At 10:1:0 Google:Draw:Bing now.

I wonder how they got their study to get Bing to win overwhelmingly. Now I'm suspicious.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

PerchloricAcid
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:09 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby PerchloricAcid » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:36 pm UTC

I somehow managed to get 4 for Bing and 1 for Google.
When I gave Bing a shot some time ago, I didn't like it, that's why it's weird :?

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:44 am UTC

PerchloricAcid wrote:I somehow managed to get 4 for Bing and 1 for Google.
When I gave Bing a shot some time ago, I didn't like it, that's why it's weird :?

They've updated their algorithms. Vote for Bing, then. You'll be our first! (If you're suspicious it's a fluke, do more testing first. Try real searches if possible.)
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

PerchloricAcid
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:09 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby PerchloricAcid » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:46 pm UTC

I'll perform a realitic set of searches as soon as I get to my pc :)

Brickmack
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:48 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Brickmack » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:26 pm UTC

I searched for "python keypress", "custom nerf guns", "xkcd mobile", "las vegas", and "orgasm" (seems like a fairly random mix of searches). The only one Bing was better on was "xkcd mobile" (google didnt seem to list m.xkcd.com). What I find particularly odd was that Google did better on "las vegas", but that particular search was actually recommended by the site, made for Bing (Perhaps most people were looking for travel stuff rather than actual information, wikipedia was the first proper information site and didnt appear on Bing until very low on the page.)

User avatar
sourmìlk
If I can't complain, can I at least express my fear?
Posts: 6393
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:53 pm UTC
Location: permanently in the wrong
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby sourmìlk » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:40 am UTC

Perhaps google intentionally didn't list m.xkcd.com because it knew you weren't on a mobile device.
Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

lorb
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:34 am UTC
Location: Austria

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby lorb » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:57 am UTC

Here's a thing to consider: google is known to tune it's results based on your search history and what not else. So if you are a regular google user it has the advantage of being able to personalize the results for you. (I don't know if and to what degree bing does that too.)
Please be gracious in judging my english. (I am not a native speaker/writer.)
http://decodedarfur.org/

Derek
Posts: 2147
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Derek » Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:35 pm UTC

lorb wrote:Here's a thing to consider: google is known to tune it's results based on your search history and what not else. So if you are a regular google user it has the advantage of being able to personalize the results for you. (I don't know if and to what degree bing does that too.)

I'm pretty sure Bing does that too. I'm also pretty sure that all personalization information was stripped from this test anyways.

EvanED
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:28 am UTC
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby EvanED » Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:34 am UTC

So I accidentally searched one thing twice, so omitting that the score is 4 (google) - 2 (bing) - 3 (draw). One of the Google wins was very slight, so 3-2-4 could have happened on a different day.

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby phlip » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:42 am UTC

Have they taken this down now? Following the link in the OP just redirects to the bing homepage for me...

Anyways, I just tried the query I wanted to do (the name of a game, and an achievement within that game that I needed a hint for). Google came back with a couple of videos of people getting that achievement, a couple of FAQs on how to get the achievement, and the like. Bing came back with the Wikipedia page for the game, a couple of news stories about the game's launch, and a couple of other pages that were nothing to do with what I was after. Google wins, and I doubt being blinded would have changed that.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:00 pm UTC

phlip wrote:Have they taken this down now? Following the link in the OP just redirects to the bing homepage for me...

Anyways, I just tried the query I wanted to do (the name of a game, and an achievement within that game that I needed a hint for). Google came back with a couple of videos of people getting that achievement, a couple of FAQs on how to get the achievement, and the like. Bing came back with the Wikipedia page for the game, a couple of news stories about the game's launch, and a couple of other pages that were nothing to do with what I was after. Google wins, and I doubt being blinded would have changed that.

Just checked both links, the blog post and the site. Both worked for me.

Although your search seems pretty telling.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
bantler
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:23 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby bantler » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:10 pm UTC

I've used Google for years and may just be used to results displaying in a predictable and comforting fashion.
Some of the Bing-Hits weren’t the type of links I’m used to following on the first page of a search.

User avatar
phlip
Restorer of Worlds
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:56 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby phlip » Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:59 am UTC

Роберт wrote:Just checked both links, the blog post and the site. Both worked for me.

Hmm... seems to be a regional thing... I've found (via Google, naturally) a few people saying it's doing the same thing for them, none of them are American. I guess it's trying to redirect me to an Australian version of the Bing site?

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

User avatar
Amnesiasoft
Posts: 2573
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:28 am UTC
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:04 am UTC

I'd gotten a draw. I stick to Bing because I got sick of Google thinking it knows what I'm searching for better than me. No, I don't want spaces in that search query to be assumed unless my search was "HowdoIfixmyspacebar?"

Also, Bing rewards points. Yes, I use Bing because Microsoft bribes me. I am not above admitting that. (Also, I just don't like Google as a company)

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:21 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:Also, I just don't like Google as a company

And you like Microsoft better?
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
Amnesiasoft
Posts: 2573
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 4:28 am UTC
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:46 am UTC

Роберт wrote:And you like Microsoft better?

Yes.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:35 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
Роберт wrote:And you like Microsoft better?

Yes.

Fascinating. Tell me about your childhood.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

steeledemon
Posts: 0
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby steeledemon » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:11 pm UTC

THE TEST IS A FRAUD!!

Try this... FORCE THE TEST... take the test but after entering each search term, search for the same term in a different window for both Bing and Google... THEN VOTE FOR THE MATCHING RESULTS FOR ONE OR THE OTHER :-)

It worked in that I could 100% see witch side was Google and/or Bing and therefore could "control" my voting... BUT...

THE TEST CHEATS... I did 3 tests each

Results... 3 times in a row I was able to get a 100% Bing result... so 3 times i got 5-0 for Bing...

BUT trying to FORCE Google to win proved difficult! I only got Google to win 1 time out of 3 with a 1-4 result... My other 2 attempts to FORCE a Google victory resulted in 4-1 and 3-2 BING VICTORIES!!!

The only conclusion possible is that BING HAS RIGGED THE TEST in some unknown but measureable way...

DO THIS YOURSELF AND THEN GET MAD BECAUSE THAT IS BULL CRAP!!!

(FYI... I was/am a Bing fan and still use them because I do think it’s a better search engine... BUT now I am frustrated with them!)

EvanED
Posts: 4324
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:28 am UTC
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby EvanED » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:55 pm UTC

Er, what? I had no problem getting a 5-0 Google victory.

Derek
Posts: 2147
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:15 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Derek » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:08 pm UTC

Yeah, myself and many other people have got 5-0 Google victories without even trying to cheat. I think you just like Bing :P (and there is nothing wrong with that, btw)

User avatar
Copper Bezel
Posts: 2416
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:35 am UTC
Location: Web exclusive!

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Copper Bezel » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:23 am UTC

I really just think they're geared for different priorities. Bing gives me crap results, but it also advertises itself on use cases that I don't actually think of first when I think of searching. Less research, more shopping. I don't think there's an easy value judgement in that. The whole point is using something that can guess what you mean from a vague little input - whatever it is that you're likely to mean.
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

she / her / her

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Роберт » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:56 pm UTC

steeledemon wrote:THE TEST IS A FRAUD!!

Try this... FORCE THE TEST... take the test but after entering each search term, search for the same term in a different window for both Bing and Google... THEN VOTE FOR THE MATCHING RESULTS FOR ONE OR THE OTHER :-)

It worked in that I could 100% see witch side was Google and/or Bing and therefore could "control" my voting... BUT...

THE TEST CHEATS... I did 3 tests each

Results... 3 times in a row I was able to get a 100% Bing result... so 3 times i got 5-0 for Bing...

BUT trying to FORCE Google to win proved difficult! I only got Google to win 1 time out of 3 with a 1-4 result... My other 2 attempts to FORCE a Google victory resulted in 4-1 and 3-2 BING VICTORIES!!!

The only conclusion possible is that BING HAS RIGGED THE TEST in some unknown but measureable way...

DO THIS YOURSELF AND THEN GET MAD BECAUSE THAT IS BULL CRAP!!!

(FYI... I was/am a Bing fan and still use them because I do think it’s a better search engine... BUT now I am frustrated with them!)

People who use too many exclamation marks and all caps prefer Bing. Why am I not surprised?

If the test is rigged you'd think they'd do a better job at making Bing win.

Currenty poll results:
Google - 36
Draw - 2
Bing - 2

I don't think it's rigged.
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
ahammel
My Little Cabbage
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am UTC
Location: Vancouver BC
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby ahammel » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:31 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:If the test is rigged you'd think they'd do a better job at making Bing win.

Maybe they gave the job to whoever wrote the MS Word grammar checker.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby philsov » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:02 am UTC

BING WON 1 ROUNDS *


Its like they can't even generate the correct grammar for that 1/6 outcome.

Google even did a better job regarding an Excel query.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Eseell
Posts: 789
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:58 am UTC
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Contact:

Re: Google Search vs Bing

Postby Eseell » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:18 am UTC

BING WON 1 ROUNDS
I fed it a bunch of things that I've actually had trouble searching for recently, and it looks like Google did a better job of finding what little information was available. Bing had less relevant results.
"Math is hard work and it occupies your mind -- and it doesn't hurt to learn all you can of it, no matter what rank you are; everything of any importance is founded on mathematics." - Robert A. Heinlein


Return to “Religious Wars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests