Gain Body Mass!

The Food Forum's Evil Twin. Trying to lose weight or get in shape? Tips, encouragement, status reports, and so forth go here.
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juanbenavid
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Gain Body Mass!

Postby juanbenavid » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:30 am UTC

Hey! I'm relatively new to the forums and completely new to the fit club but I'm need of some advice concerning my weight and muscle. Im 14 and for my whole life I've been a pretty skinny guy in general but as of late ( due to puberty) i grew in height substantially so I pretty much look like i could snap in half. Apart from that i have some pretty annoying acne i need to get rid of ( been to the dermatologist already..) and it seems like the main cause for my acne is my , lets say "unhealthy" food habits. Its not that i don't eat healthy, i eat my usual steak, fish, chicken and what not but i also eat quite a bit of greasy foods and stuff like that. I need to find a way to gain more body mass as well as get muscle while being as healthy as possible with my food as to take care of the acne. What should i eat, what shouldn't i eat, what exercise i should do etc.. Thanks in advance dudes.

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Nath
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Nath » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:19 am UTC

From what I know, there are two types of food that can cause acne:
  • High-glycemic foods like sugar, bread and pasta;
  • Foods that can affect your hormonal profile, like milk.
Reducing the high-glycemic foods is a no-brainer; replace them with meat and vegetables. Oatmeal is good if you want more carbs; get the kind that's just oats, rather than the instant sugary stuff. Getting rid of milk is a trade-off, though. The hormones in milk are precisely the ones you need to build muscle. In fact, heavy lifting will cause your body to create more of those hormones; that's one of the mechanisms by which strength training works. So probably the thing to do for the next few years is to go ahead and drink your milk and lift your weights, and try to control your acne through other means, like cutting out refined carbs, and eating anti-inflammatory foods like leafy vegetables and oily fish. It sucks, but it'll pass in a few years.

As for what exercises to do, you need heavy compound exercises that use as much muscle mass as possible. Squats and deadlifts should be your bread and butter. You'll probably also want some upper body exercises; overhead presses and chin-ups will cover most of the bases. You can bench press or do some dips as well if you like. See if you can get your hands on a book called Starting Strength; it'll explain how to do all of these exercises correctly. Three sets of five, three workouts a week; increase the weight when you get all the reps. You will need a stupid amount of food to get the most out of this sort of exercise protocol. Again, meat, vegetables, fruits, oily fish, oats, and as much milk as you're willing to drink.

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nightbird
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby nightbird » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:04 am UTC

Greasy food is a major culprit when it comes to acne. That being said, your current age (teenager...) isn't helping all that much.

I think it's funny you mention steak, fish... first when talking about a healthy diet. Don't get me wrong, they're not unhealthy, but what you really need (wild guess but I'm probably right) for a diet to be healthy is fruit and vegetables. Try to eat five types of fruits and veggies a day (it's actually pretty easy; an apple with breakfast, a banana mid-morning, Broccoli for lunch, carrots and tomatoes with dinner). Most people have HORRIBLE diets because they're too lazy to cook and fast food usually consists of white flour, greasy fat and meat. I'm not telling you to become a vegetarian, but take a look at some meat-free recipes; they can teach you how to turn veggies into tasty dishes. Anybody knows how to make meat tasty, that's not the hard part.

concerning your weight... don't be too stressed out, it's your age again. Your body needs so much energy too get taller that there is little left to make you wider; most boys fill out once they've reached their adult height. If you're desperate to get bigger, eat more food (again, healthy choices if you can) and do calisthenics as often as you can (I'm hesitant to tell you to lift weights; besides, anybody who can't do 40 slow and perfect push ups won't need it yet). do pull ups, push ups and bodyweight squats as often as you can; if you find the time, you could do hundreds of them every day. But you don't have to. Start slow, do them 4-6 times a week and you should grow (slowly) - if you eat enough and eat healthy food.
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gaurwraith
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Re: Gain torso That Mass!

Postby gaurwraith » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:29 am UTC

ARRRRR , modyfing forum has made this thread something quite funny to read
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caje
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby caje » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:17 am UTC

Exercise: http://aasgaardco.com/store/store.php?c ... how_detail Buy this book it will be an amazing resource. It is a strength program designed to turn skinny high school kids (sound familiar) big and strong.

Food: More meat in all forms. (beef, chicken, fish, etc.) Then throw in some veggies, fruit root tubers (potatoes, squash, sweet potatoes) and white rice. Like a metric fuck-ton of this shit, you are going to need a massive amount of calories to support a program like starting strength like 4,000-5,000 a day. Seriously this is going to be he hard part, most people fail because they don't eat enough.

Acne: While drinking large amounts of milk is normally suggested for starting strength if you have bad acne problems I would not do this. (but it means you are going to have to hit the food even harder) At your age though it might not matter what you eat for a while and the milk definitely helps the strength.

Eheu
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Eheu » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:58 pm UTC

I'd echo the recommendation of Starting Strength, with the caveat that you have someone available able to give you some guidance with form and so on; working out with weights as a teenager is rarely a bad thing, but at any age it's very easy to cause yourself injury if you're just blindly guessing at what to do or trying to follow some pictures in a book.

Jumping to "steak, fish and chicken" as the constituents of a healthy diet is odd. You will need a fuckton of protein (alongside other things) to gain muscle mass, but vegetables and such do tend to underpin a healthy diet a lot more. Reduction of high glycaemic index foods is an obvious first step: cut back on sweets, chocolate, and all that. Chasing that with a decrease in fast food and a diet centred more around protein and complex carbohydrates should serve you well. The occasional indulgence won't cause any damage, but it's definitely not something to be having regularly.

Nightbird's "wild guess", while good as an idea for a healthy diet, isn't something to adhere to if you're doing an intensive weight routine. For your body's muscles to grow, they need protein, and the best sources of this (aside, arguably, from dietary supplements) are meat and fish. You'll need a lot of it. Chicken and tuna are typically the go-to options, with red meats being kept less frequent due to their higher fat content and (often) cost; a few cans of tuna or some chicken breasts are excellent low-fat sources of protein and won't even set a teenager back too much.

Milk is something I found great success with, and it's worth seeing how you react to it, but as already said, it could further aggravate the acne. In your position, I'd just try it and see; as a teenager it could just be that your hormones are all over the place and it will pass as your body settles down. The improved diet and beginning to exercise could lend a hand in clearing the acne, too, but one of the unfortunate facts is that some people are just more prone to it. If you still have it despite changes to diet and exercise, it doesn't necessarily mean anything except that you're a teenager; if it passes, then all's well and good.
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Dark567 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:18 pm UTC

There is no scientific link between any diet and acne(http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Consume ... 174521.htm). Eating different food will not help. If you have severe acne facial hygiene and, if need be, medication.

Acne is not caused by diet. No scientific connection has been found between diet and acne. No food—not chocolate, fries, pizza, or any other food—has been shown to cause acne.
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Nath
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Nath » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:33 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:There is no scientific link between any diet and acne(http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Consume ... 174521.htm). Eating different food will not help. If you have severe acne facial hygiene and, if need be, medication.

Acne is not caused by diet. No scientific connection has been found between diet and acne. No food—not chocolate, fries, pizza, or any other food—has been shown to cause acne.

The FDA, shockingly, is not always right about these things.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20361171
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19709092

That said, the conventional wisdom linking acne with greasy food is probably a myth.

The OP hasn't posted since he started this thread, so this discussion might not be relevant anyway.

sebwiers
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby sebwiers » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:32 pm UTC

Back to gaining body mass...

If your old enough and have time, get a job at FedEx ground. You'll be loading trucks 3-4 hours a shift, just one shift a day. Its the only way I ever put on muscle mass. I had a good base of endurance first (long time cyclist) so was able to rock the pace they needed, and I tended to use endurance in place of raw power (other guys would stack up multiple 20 lbs boxes before moving them; I'd lift and move each one separately). But all and still, I got pretty buff - even if I couldn't heave around super heavy stuff (which they tell you not to do anyhow) I was pretty damn strong.
If you do take up such a job, make sure to drink plenty of water during an betwen shifts. Having to run to pee once a shift is MUCH better for yopr numbers (and body) than being tired because you are dehydrated. And keep some quick power food (snack bars, fruit, gummi candi) on hand too.
Despite the physical challenge (which really, in this case is a BENEFIT) its not a bad job. I looked at it as a combined gym workout / tetris game that I got paid for, and ended up being one of the top workers in the plant. (And yeah, FedEx is better for this than UPS; UPS is a Teamster shop, so they push of overtime. With FedEx, you'll NEVER be told to put in more than 4 hours a day if you don't ask for it.)

Sweating out a half gallon of water every day might even help your skin, as long as you wash afterwords; it flushes out toxins and cleans you pores. You'll also end up with some good stories to tell, and learn how to socialize with a wide range of non-geek type folks. And if you keep the job for a year or more it looks quite good on your resume- kinda like military experience, even if its not relevant to the job you want it shows you can take orders and stick it out in a demanding position.

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Jorpho
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Jorpho » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:54 am UTC

I don't read much about the notion of "nutrient timing": the idea that your metabolism is uniquely different in the hour or so after a workout and that it is critical to consume protein at that time along with some amount of simple carbs. Does no one subscribe to that particular notion anymore?

sebwiers wrote:Sweating out a half gallon of water every day might even help your skin, as long as you wash afterwords; it flushes out toxins and cleans you pores.
Whatever the other benefits may be, there is no evidence that "toxins" accumulate in the body that should be periodically "flushed".

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philsov
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby philsov » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:05 pm UTC

Does no one subscribe to that particular notion anymore?


I'm pretty sure it's just broscience at this point. See Wikipedia.

From what I've heard protein from meat, nuts, beans, veggies, and most sources takes about 3-5 hours to enter the bloodstream from ingestion. Whey/Casein (milky protein) take about 1-3 from ingestion to enter the bloodstream (wherein whey's more of a flood at 10g per hour and casein is more of a drip function at 5g/hour). Were this the case, and one would need to have the protein hit the bloodstream when the muscles would "need" it the most, then the food ought to be ingested beforehand.

And if you're trying to put on mass it's good to eat at a caloric excess anyways, and so you're either eating so often or so much (or both O.o) throughout the day that the timing around the workout is negligent.
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zmic
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby zmic » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:51 pm UTC

juanbenavid wrote:Hey! I'm relatively new to the forums and completely new to the fit club but I'm need of some advice concerning my weight and muscle. Im 14 and for my whole life I've been a pretty skinny guy in general but as of late ( due to puberty) i grew in height substantially so I pretty much look like i could snap in half. Apart from that i have some pretty annoying acne i need to get rid of ( been to the dermatologist already..) and it seems like the main cause for my acne is my , lets say "unhealthy" food habits. Its not that i don't eat healthy, i eat my usual steak, fish, chicken and what not but i also eat quite a bit of greasy foods and stuff like that. I need to find a way to gain more body mass as well as get muscle while being as healthy as possible with my food as to take care of the acne. What should i eat, what shouldn't i eat, what exercise i should do etc.. Thanks in advance dudes.


Don't waste your time with gyms or workout programs. It's inherently boring and most people give it up. Learn some skill like bricklaying, plastering walls or laying electricity. You'll get the satisfaction of actually doing something useful and you'll get muscle and body mass for free as a bonus.

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Izawwlgood
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:06 pm UTC

Climb ALL the bouldering routes and drink ALL the protein shakes!

Actually that's not a great way to gain muscle mass, but the most cut I've ever been was when I was biking and climbing a lot. I put on and lose muscle mass pretty quickly though. I like this suggestion:
zmic wrote:Learn some skill like bricklaying, plastering walls or laying electricity. You'll get the satisfaction of actually doing something useful and you'll get muscle and body mass for free as a bonus.

And would just suggest picking up a hobby that results in physical exertion. Join a soccer league or something.
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Jorpho
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Jorpho » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:58 am UTC

philsov wrote:I'm pretty sure it's just broscience at this point. See Wikipedia.
Eh... They're supposedly refuting one source with papers published several years in advance of said source. That's not persuasive. Furthermore, a bit of poking around suggests "Rasmussen et al., 2000" is http://jap.physiology.org/content/88/2/386 , which seems to state the contrary!

zmic wrote:Don't waste your time with gyms or workout programs. It's inherently boring and most people give it up.
There's the old card about the release of beta-endorphins being its own reward.

Learn some skill like bricklaying, plastering walls or laying electricity.
I would think the barrier to entry in such a field would be several years.

Izawwlgood wrote:And would just suggest picking up a hobby that results in physical exertion. Join a soccer league or something.
Wouldn't extensive aerobic activity not be conductive to gaining mass?

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Izawwlgood
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:48 am UTC

I dunno, I just like to pick things up and put them down.
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philsov
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby philsov » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:17 pm UTC

http://jap.physiology.org/content/88/2/386


The problem I have with that is the variable of which they tested.

One group ate 35g carbs and 6g protein (I'm assuming an otherwise controlled diet, but I might be giving them too much credit.) more than the other group, and saw a more positive response in muscle synthesis. This tells us nothing about the timing of ingestion.

Don't waste your time with gyms or workout programs. It's inherently boring and most people give it up.


Lifting things up and putting them down is awesome, and I enjoy always lifting more things up and putting more things down as the days progress. I'm riding this linear gain wave for as long as I can. And while gyms are not essential- you can squat logs or flip tires or press bags of sand over your head or something -- they offer a welcome control mechanic with fine-tuned resistance for maximal efficiency that... bricks... simply do not offer.
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Rageous » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:07 pm UTC

No not obsess about diet. Eat clean - lean protein and vegetables. Water is your friend.

Stay away from machines, if you can help it. You want your entire body engaged in a natural movement. Machines control/limit your range of motion. (Use a bench or a squat rack, but stay away from the "Smith Machine" and Leg Press station.)

Youtube - Louie Simmons from Westside Barbell, and TestosteroneNation. Both are incredibly educational for lifting techniques and habits.

Bench press, back squat and deadlift are your best friend.

I recently went from ~300lbs to 225-235lbs and dropped 20% body fat from ~40% to ~20% in about six months. My deadlift went from 275lbs to 385lbs in that time frame.

You MUST lift with correct form. If you don't, you will hurt yourself... badly. If you dont know what the "correct form" is, you need to find out from a reliable source, not some random gym rat.

It is in your best interest to focus on form and flexibility over pushing more weight. The strength will come with time, believe me.

Never sacrifice form.

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philsov
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby philsov » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:07 pm UTC

Some more pubmed stuff about food timing and exercise:

Results indicate that the time of protein-supplement ingestion in resistance-trained athletes during a 10-wk training program does not provide any added benefit to strength, power, or body-composition changes.

Timed protein supplementation immediately before and after exercise does not further augment the increase in skeletal muscle mass and strength after prolonged resistance-type exercise training in healthy elderly men who habitually consume adequate amounts of dietary protein

suggest that resistance exercise performed until failure confers a sensitizing effect on human skeletal muscle for at least 24 h that is specific to the myofibrillar protein fraction.

We conclude that postexercise protein supplementation does not increase rates of mixed protein synthesis over 6 wk

Some conflicting reports, but basically summarizes benefits anywhere from preworkout to 3 hours afterwards is basically the same window
Ingestion of amino acids after resistance exercise has been shown at many different time points in several studies to stimulate increases in muscle protein synthesis, cause minimal changes in protein breakdown and increase overall protein balance. It has not been conclusively determined what time point is optimal. Similar changes have been found for studies that have administered amino acids alone or with carbohydrate immediately upon completion of an acute exercise bout, 1 h after completion, 2 h after completion and 3 h after completion. Interestingly, ingesting nutrients before the exercise bout may have the most benefit of all the time points.


If the anabolic window exists, its overhyped imo.
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zmic
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby zmic » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:00 am UTC

philsov wrote:
Don't waste your time with gyms or workout programs. It's inherently boring and most people give it up.


Lifting things up and putting them down is awesome, and I enjoy always lifting more things up and putting more things down as the days progress. I'm riding this linear gain wave for as long as I can. And while gyms are not essential- you can squat logs or flip tires or press bags of sand over your head or something -- they offer a welcome control mechanic with fine-tuned resistance for maximal efficiency that... bricks... simply do not offer.


if you enjoy workouts that's good for you. But it doesn't work for many people. That's why I wanted to suggest some alternative that other people get more satisfaction out of. You can actually do something useful with all that muscle instead of just walking around being all .. muscly.

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Jorpho
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Re: Gain Body Mass!

Postby Jorpho » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:22 pm UTC

zmic wrote:if you enjoy workouts that's good for you. But it doesn't work for many people. That's why I wanted to suggest some alternative that other people get more satisfaction out of. You can actually do something useful with all that muscle instead of just walking around being all .. muscly.
If nothing else, it's a good deal more convenient if one is obliged to make a living in a way that involves sitting at a desk for many hours of the day.


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