"Pro Life" kids at school.

[Savvycow]

So a whole bunch of the people I used to respect as upholding Christians in my school stooped down to do some serious crap. Like, one kid taped a picture of an aborted fetus on his back, others put red tape over there mouths that said "Pro Life", and one was covered in blood.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a serious pro lifer, but what the hell. I know there are in our school who have gotten an abortion in the last year. I know that they don't give a damn about the decision they made, and the people "protesting" aren't going to get anything done except disrupt the class.

However, at lunch I duct taped my mouth shut and made a sign that said : I AM PROVING MY POINT ON A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE BY TAPING MY MOUTH SHUT. TAKE THAT, SOCIETY.

All the people with tape got pissed. Everyone else laughed hysterically.

[Exotria]

Do people really think this will sway undecideds to their side? And under obscenity rules, shouldn't your school administration be doing something about that picture? That's some gross stuff right there that definitely causes disruptions to education. Your response to them was perfect- mockeries to people taking themselves too seriously is good fun. If they're going to exercise their free speech in an obnoxious way, people are fully within their rights to be obnoxious to them back.

I read an article/post/scribbling recently about how there's freedom of religion, but no compulsion for other people to respect it. Them getting pissed at your sign is amusing when what they did was much more irritating.

[Savvycow]

Do people really think this will sway undecideds to their side? And under obscenity rules, shouldn't your school administration be doing something about that picture? That's some gross stuff right there that definitely causes disruptions to education. Your response to them was perfect- mockeries to people taking themselves too seriously is good fun. If they're going to exercise their free speech in an obnoxious way, people are fully within their rights to be obnoxious to them back.

I read an article/post/scribbling recently about how there's freedom of religion, but no compulsion for other people to respect it. Them getting pissed at your sign is amusing when what they did was much more irritating.

I'm very surprised that my school did nothing about the picture. I don't know anymore, I think the administrators feared some sort of retaliation from the parents concerning their "rights".

[Exotria]

In that case, get together a coalition of vegans (or people who can pretend to be vegans) and start doing PETA demonstrations with horrid pictures of what's done to animals. And protest for any other cause with gross pictures of things. If the administration tells you to stop, cry discrimination.

Or, better yet, file a complaint about how the issue wasn't addressed.

[++$_]

Your response was the best I have seen, ever. Moar pls.

[Sir_Elderberry]

Some people did this at my school, but kept it low-key. There was a red armband/piece of duct tape somewhere on their person, and they didn't talk. They had a little piece of paper explaining why, and that was it. I didn't mind.

[Hit3k]

Usually people that do this are the ones with the annoying voices. So isn't it a good thing? Did they start talking to you when you held up the sign?

Also, I can imagine them walking in circles shouting:

All babies want to get borned.

[Pirate.Bondage]

I'm definitely pro-life too but I wouldn't take my opinion THAT far. That seems kind of ridiculous.

[Snowdream]

Schools have to tread very carefully here. They can loose one way or the other, if they mess up. If they told the students to stop protesting, parents could threaten to sue the school for some stupid reason or another. But since your school did nothing, they set a president that its OK to protest in that manner, so like a poster above said; if you do a PETA protest, and mimic the actions of the Pro-lifer's (Sidenote: I hate the term 'pro-life') but you get nailed... you may cry foul.

The school, I think should have asked the students to keep the protest at least toned down (like wearing a ribbon, or armband), being loud and obnoxious could cause a disruption to the school, and result in complications.

[Mighty Jalapeno]

Ask when when they're planning to link arms and block cemetaries?

Soeey, I get twitchy at the militant pro-lifers. I liked your response, though... you're pro-life. Rock on. Your decision, good reasons, etc. Maybe explain they have the right to remain silent? Or that they're perfectly welcome to adopt all the kids that they want unprepared mothers to give birth to.

[Snowdream]

Ask when when they're planning to link arms and block cemetaries?

Soeey, I get twitchy at the militant pro-lifers. I liked your response, though... you're pro-life. Rock on. Your decision, good reasons, etc. Maybe explain they have the right to remain silent? Or that they're perfectly welcome to adopt all the kids that they want unprepared mothers to give birth to.

Personally, I like asking 'pro-lifers' two questions when they get into a mood:

1. Do you support the death penalty?

2. Do you believe contraceptives should be available to everyone?

I get some interesting answers... however, I do respect these people and their right to protest something that they feel is wrong. It makes me proud to be an American when I see people protesting something. Especially people who protest the protesters protesting of the protests protest.

[pkuky]

please let's not make this an abortion argument.

[Mighty Jalapeno]

I get some interesting answers... however, I do respect these people and their right to protest something that they feel is wrong. It makes me proud to be an American when I see people protesting something. Especially people who protest the protesters protesting of the protests protest.

I am offended by your love of protesting, and I WILL NOT stand for it!

WHO'S WITH ME?!

[kinigget]

I personally think that if you have to resort to scare tactics to get you're point across you need to rethink you're point. I have no problem with people believing what they do, I just really dislike the ones that believe they have to convert everyone else to their opinion, and then go about doing so by employing tactics like what savvycow described. of course most of what I just said could be boiled down to "I hate extremists and fundamentalists of all kinds." and that is exactly what my worldview is.

[Angua]

PROTEST! PROTEST!

Seriously though, I don't like militants in general. They tend to get a bit holier than thou wtih it. If they made their point in a calm and reasonable manner, I'd be prepared to listen, but the whole I'm right, you're wrong and there's nothing we can do for some middle ground. Unfortunately, the militant types seem to be the only ones who get anything done, as with everything, I have trouble deciding which side I'm on.

[telcontar42]

I just really dislike the ones that believe they have to convert everyone else to their opinion

If someone really believes abortion is wrong, it doesn't make sense for them to not want to convert everyone else to their opinion. In a democratic country, the best way to stop abortions from happening is to convince as many people as possible that abortions are wrong. If you feel strongly enough about an issue like that, it would be absurd to not try to convert everyone to your side by any means necessary. I'm pro-choice and I would disagree with these people's message, but not with their attempts to convince people. Maybe their tactics are flawed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to change other people's opinions.

[Mighty Jalapeno]

So they think that abortions are worse than war, starvation, and racism? Because out of all the evils in the world, they seem to have settled on the one that involves the least work to protest.

[pkuky]

actually, it's more like the one easiest to influence. if you convince a dozen people of something, it won't stop war or starvation. but you just might stop one of them from having an abortion.

[Mighty Jalapeno]

Tacit acceptance of "Don't protest war, it doesn't do any good". Check.

Leaving thread now, I can't be trusted with words...

[Silvyr]

o.O There was someone walking around our school covered in blood? *completely missed that*

Wow.. Anyways, I guess you really can't say they didn't have a right to do that, but I definitely think they could've done it in a slightly less obnoxious way. And. They were just plain scary. XD Seriously.. mention being pro-choice around any of them and bring up rape statistics... *hides from death glares*

[qinwamascot]

o.O There was someone walking around our school covered in blood? *completely missed that*

Wow.. Anyways, I guess you really can't say they didn't have a right to do that

Umm...time, place, and manner restrictions? or disrupting school environment? You really have basically no freedom of speech in a school building--you are on their property, so it's their rules. That doesn't mean they can stop you from starting a club, or spreading information, but if it is disruptive then they have no right to do it. I'd say the same even if it was a pro-choice person.

[Pit]

So a whole bunch of the people I used to respect as upholding Christians in my school stooped down to do some serious crap. Like, one kid taped a picture of an aborted fetus on his back, others put red tape over there mouths that said "Pro Life", and one was covered in blood.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a serious pro lifer, but what the hell. I know there are in our school who have gotten an abortion in the last year. I know that they don't give a damn about the decision they made, and the people "protesting" aren't going to get anything done except disrupt the class.

However, at lunch I duct taped my mouth shut and made a sign that said : I AM PROVING MY POINT ON A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE BY TAPING MY MOUTH SHUT. TAKE THAT, SOCIETY.

All the people with tape got pissed. Everyone else laughed hysterically.

I respect people's decisions on voicing their opinions, but this goes too far. I have many friends who are pro-life, and even they would cringe.

It reminds me of the time we had a Day of Silence for violence due to homophobia and for more gay rights. This was also the same day that the Christian Society in our school "coincidentally" decided to have their "Shout and recite lines from the Bible between classes" day.

It's one thing to try and explain pro-life to someone, or to be pro-life and to have some sort of day to try and inform people, but it's another thing to use outlandish behavior to make a point. Honestly, it only puts a bad spin on what they're trying to bring to light.

[incompetentia]

These are the same people who agreed with Morse v. Frederick, I would posit? You could simply tape the words "universal healthcare" and "socialism" and "progressive" on your mouths for a day and see how people feel.




My liberal opinion aside, fearmongering has become the only way to get people to care (and even still then it's hardly an uproar). Nobody cares about anything ever.
Whatever, it's not like it affects me.

[qinwamascot]

It reminds me of the time we had a Day of Silence for violence due to homophobia and for more gay rights.

What's wrong with the day of silence? It isn't really disruptive and it gets the point across without being excessive IMO

[Exotria]

It reminds me of the time we had a Day of Silence for violence due to homophobia and for more gay rights.

What's wrong with the day of silence? It isn't really disruptive and it gets the point across without being excessive IMO

I think the parallel being drawn was in the next sentence- "This was also the same day that the Christian Society in our school "coincidentally" decided to have their 'Shout and recite lines from the Bible between classes' day." The being obnoxious about beliefs and shouting them at people instead of making them known respectfully.

[Pit]

It reminds me of the time we had a Day of Silence for violence due to homophobia and for more gay rights.

What's wrong with the day of silence? It isn't really disruptive and it gets the point across without being excessive IMO

I think the parallel being drawn was in the next sentence- "This was also the same day that the Christian Society in our school "coincidentally" decided to have their 'Shout and recite lines from the Bible between classes' day." The being obnoxious about beliefs and shouting them at people instead of making them known respectfully.

Thank you Exotria~

Nothing is wrong with the Day of Silence. I was a participant of it, and many teachers acknowledge the day and respect our desires to be silent. However, it was offensive that the Christian Society was shouting verses, almost sometimes at our faces.

If they walked around muttering verses to themselves while holding the Bible, it would be one thing, so perhaps I need to elaborate on what they did.

When coming across someone who was clearly participating in the Day of Silence (or across a group of people), they would shout verses (almost on the top of their lungs) within close proximity. Furthermore, they would shout most verses from the Book of Genesis, Book of Exodus and the Book of Revelations. Genesis was about the creation of man, as well as the sin of man. Exodus contains the ten commandments, and revelations is the final chapter in the Bible, which contains information about the apocalypse and the so-called second coming. It's one thing to use verses that are about.. acceptance, forgiveness, Jesus' miracles and such. However, they used versus about the punishment of God against those who sinned, or hateful messages that seemed more like paraphrasing than actual verses.

In short, they were provoking us.

[Silvyr]

o.O There was someone walking around our school covered in blood? *completely missed that*

Wow.. Anyways, I guess you really can't say they didn't have a right to do that

Umm...time, place, and manner restrictions? or disrupting school environment? You really have basically no freedom of speech in a school building--you are on their property, so it's their rules. That doesn't mean they can stop you from starting a club, or spreading information, but if it is disruptive then they have no right to do it. I'd say the same even if it was a pro-choice person.

Okay.. I guess what I meant was, we do have slightly more freedoms in our school, [our school paper is a first amendment paper, so we have all rights to publish what we feel is needed to be printed, regardless of administration, so as a member of the paper staff, I kinda concider our school to have a bit more freedoms] and as the thing was orriginally intended, it shouldn't have been disruptive. Many students simply put the red tape on their arm, leg, back, or mouth. It wasn't excessively obnoxious until, as Savvycow pointed out, someone covered themself or all the pictures..

There have also been days where some students were silent for gay rights and that caused no disrption what-so-ever except for when some overly conservative people found out why you were silent and began lecturing you and just making you want to kick them really badly. Point being. I do believe they had the right to be silent. That wouldn't have been disruptive. The fact that they went above the silence thing with everyhting else is what became disruptive.

[rubber314chicken]

Like, one kid taped a picture of an aborted fetus on his back

as controversial as that may be, it really shows how much life it has and that people are just killing it. It really looks like a really tiny kid.

[lorenith]

I got to draw the animation of the Carnegie Stage up to fetus for a Dolphin, Human, and a chick (although for the chick it was really hard because the chick flys through the carnegie stages in a matter of hours/days while the dolphin and human take 2-5 months).

I don't know at what stage most people get abortions, but for some reason I imagine often times it's done in the first month or so, that means whatever the mother is carrying is pretty much a ball of cells, or an extremely abstract looking tetrapod, when I say extremely abstract looking tetrapod, I mean the dolphin and the human looked very similar to my untrained eyes.

Mostly I guess my point is that an aborted fetus that looks like a tiny human was aborted nearly 2 months or more after implantation which seems like an awful long time for someone to wait before getting one. But like I said I don't know when people often get them, I'd always assumed most people tried to get them done as early as possible, cause for some reason I have this idea that they're more dangerous later on, I don't really know though, so with my complete 0 knowledge I feel that posting something like an aborted fetus to make a point about abortion is hyperbole, and really gross/disturbing to have in a school environment.

(spoiler for random opinions)

Spoiler:

Maybe I'm just being optomistic, I'm pro-choice, but only up to a point, I personally would not abort if it had been in development 5+ weeks, that said I don't care what other people do cause well I dunno, maybe I should.

Thinking about a fetus being aborted makes me squeemish since most of the organs are pretty much there already a bit before it's actually classified as a fetus, and the rest of development is pretty much outer extremities (according to my child development teacher there is a small chance of actually caring for a super early fetus till it's fully developed outside the womb if need be). I won't stop someone from getting an abortion though

(jeeze I hate the terms pro choice and pro life, as if being pro choice is anti life, or pro life is anti choice >.<)

[Lycur]

Sounds like peacful protest to me. As long as they weren't actively interferring with anybody - and by the sounds of it, they weren't - then I'm all for it.

That being said, it doesn't seem like it'd actually do their cause much good.

[spacefem]

i've never understood the "look at this gross dead fetus picture" approach to getting people to the pro-life side. i mean, i could probably show you a gross picture of someone having colon surgery... that doesn't make it wrong.

but i'm really pro-choice so maybe i'm biased, I think abortion is wrong but argue for it from a legal perspective, and can't understand why the pro-life side can't separate those. we separate legal vs. moral on all kinds of things... it's immoral to have an affair, immoral to throw aluminum cans away, immoral to eat fast food until you can't get off the couch. but for logistical (or just freedom) reasons all those things are legal. from a logistical perspective, making abortion illegal would be a disaster, I think. but it's one of those issues that everyone wants to pass laws about. especially where i live.

anyone live in colorado? please vote no on amendment 48 they're trying to define "person" as starting with a fertilized egg... technically that means if a woman has an ectopic pregnancy there's no way to treat it, she's just going to have to bleed to death. and since there's no "fertilized egg" test, they could deny medical treatments like chemo to any women who's encountered a sperm in the last few weeks. and birth control pills could be taken off the shelves. it's really scary how many questions there are, that aren't being answered.

[JJarad]

Honestly i could be on either side of the pro life allowing abortion or not allowing it. For instance a 15 year old. If she was raped obviously she should have an abortion but if its a **** at the school who does everything that moves she should keep it because its her fault, its her punishment and he 9 months of hell for 1 night. Or a married couple who will never want a baby. if they took every precaution and she got pregnant, they should be allowed to get an abortion. Im christian Orthodox so in our beliefs we have no such guidelines get aborted or dont.

[Mighty Jalapeno]

Like, one kid taped a picture of an aborted fetus on his back

as controversial as that may be, it really shows how much life it has and that people are just killing it. It really looks like a really tiny kid.

[PatchMonster]

I never understood why pro-life'ers did the whole duct tape thing. It is making a statement, but it isn't persuading anyone; only a day of debate might have a chance at that.

Revision to your duct tape statement:
I AM PROVING MY POINT ON A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE BY TAPING MY MOUTH SHUT. YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH ME BECAUSE I'M NOT TALKING. TAKE THAT, SOCIETY.

[Silvyr]

I never understood why pro-life'ers did the whole duct tape thing. It is making a statement, but it isn't persuading anyone; only a day of debate might have a chance at that.

Revision to your duct tape statement:
I AM PROVING MY POINT ON A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE BY TAPING MY MOUTH SHUT. YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH ME BECAUSE I'M NOT TALKING. TAKE THAT, SOCIETY.

Oh but they'd still argue. Lots of 'em carried around notebooks and scribbled down whatever they had to say, or just used sign language, which I think defeats the point. And another friend brought up a good point. XD If they were all taping their mouths shut to symbolize the dead fetuses who couldn't talk, they should've all been pretending to be dead too. It had just gotten obnoxious with all the dirty looks and such by that point in the day. And that was even BEFORE the girl had taken off her tape to argue rape statistics and how they shouldn't play into abortions. rawr.

[Marbas]

What are militant pro-choicers like? I've never met or heard of them? What do they do? Do they exist?

[lorenith]

They mob people at abortion clinics.

And I still have to say, the dead fetus image they throw around, I poked around on the wiki, and apparently most abortions are done before 12 weeks. So most abortions aren't even of fetuses, they're of things with limb buds, tails, and gills.

[Hyena]

grrr. The whole "day of silence" thing really, really gets under my skin. It has no power to persuade anyone of anything, just to draw attention to an issue. It works very well in those cases, but for an already well known topic of debate like pro-life/choice, it's just obnoxious. And if you happen to disagree with them, there is no chance of a debate, which really ticks me off.

[kinigget]

consider this a revision of my previous post.

I can understand why pro-life people feel the way they do, I just think that many of them take their opinions entirely too far, such as what spacefem was talking about. and that aborted fetus picture that they are so fond of waving around? that's just a scare tactic to make people react at the emotional level instead of thinking about the implications of all options, and that just rather pisses me off. you know, maybe there are some things that should just exist entirely outside the legal system (as in no laws one way or the other). I know that not all pro life people are like this, and I would very much like to talk to one of them rationally. unfortunately the only time I have seen pro-life supporters is when they are holding an (apparently, probably not really) angry demonstration complete with aforementioned aborted fetus picture. I think the cooler heads who are of this opinion should be more accessible, seeing as most people's opinions of pro-life supporters is formed by these demonstrations.

I really don't know where I'm going with this anymore so I'm just going to stop talking.

[pkuky]

and that aborted fetus picture that they are so fond of waving around? that's just a scare tactic to make people react at the emotional level instead of thinking about the implications of all options

so are rape statistics.