Schools of Fools

The school experience. School related queries, discussions, and stories that aren't specific to a subject.

Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates

Thurid
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:06 pm UTC
Location: Maryland

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Thurid » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:33 am UTC

GraphiteGirl wrote:
Thurid wrote:Okay, I am an athlete in my school, and I'm pretty damn good considering that I'm only a sophomore. I also get straight A's and I don't copy. I also surf and spend plenty of time at the beach and I have a large circle of friends. I'm pretty much beating GordonT's stereotypes, and I'm not getting fucking offended so why do all you stuck up pricks care? Seriously get over the fucking stereotypes you douche bags....

Presumably you feel that these stereotypes and the perpetuation of them aren't doing you any harm. But perpetuation of them does harm to other people. Thats why we try to cut them down (or at least why I do).



Okay good point, but I really don't think they do too much harm and he was only trying to make a point....

Also, referring to Science's post ^^^ while most schools might not be prisons, there are quite a few, like mine, that are pretty dang close. And although no one falls into any particular stereotype, you can generally tell at least half of what a person is like by a stereotype.
You put the 'ass' in mass murder.

User avatar
GraphiteGirl
Alpha Male
Posts: 1531
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:45 pm UTC
Location: South-East Snakeville

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby GraphiteGirl » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:47 am UTC

Thurid wrote:
GraphiteGirl wrote:
Thurid wrote:Okay, I am an athlete in my school, and I'm pretty damn good considering that I'm only a sophomore. I also get straight A's and I don't copy. I also surf and spend plenty of time at the beach and I have a large circle of friends. I'm pretty much beating GordonT's stereotypes, and I'm not getting fucking offended so why do all you stuck up pricks care? Seriously get over the fucking stereotypes you douche bags....

Presumably you feel that these stereotypes and the perpetuation of them aren't doing you any harm. But perpetuation of them does harm to other people. Thats why we try to cut them down (or at least why I do).

Okay good point, but I really don't think they do too much harm and he was only trying to make a point....

Also, referring to Science's post ^^^ while most schools might not be prisons, there are quite a few, like mine, that are pretty dang close. And although no one falls into any particular stereotype, you can generally tell at least half of what a person is like by a stereotype.

I'm glad you have never been the victim of stereotyping, never been labelled and limited by any misconceptions about you based on how you look or what you do for fun, never been teased for conforming to a stereotype, never been ostracised or excluded based on one, never been bullied. I'm also glad you've been lucky enough to never accidentally refer to a stereotype to unfairly judge another person, never missed out on a new friendship due to stereotype-based assumptions.
If this is the case, you are, I suspect, seriously in the minority.
Sandry wrote:Man, my commitment to sparkle motion is waaaaay lower than you are intimating.

Thurid
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:06 pm UTC
Location: Maryland

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Thurid » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:55 am UTC

GraphiteGirl wrote:
Thurid wrote:
GraphiteGirl wrote:
Thurid wrote:Okay, I am an athlete in my school, and I'm pretty damn good considering that I'm only a sophomore. I also get straight A's and I don't copy. I also surf and spend plenty of time at the beach and I have a large circle of friends. I'm pretty much beating GordonT's stereotypes, and I'm not getting fucking offended so why do all you stuck up pricks care? Seriously get over the fucking stereotypes you douche bags....

Presumably you feel that these stereotypes and the perpetuation of them aren't doing you any harm. But perpetuation of them does harm to other people. Thats why we try to cut them down (or at least why I do).

Okay good point, but I really don't think they do too much harm and he was only trying to make a point....

Also, referring to Science's post ^^^ while most schools might not be prisons, there are quite a few, like mine, that are pretty dang close. And although no one falls into any particular stereotype, you can generally tell at least half of what a person is like by a stereotype.

I'm glad you have never been the victim of stereotyping, never been labelled and limited by any misconceptions about you based on how you look or what you do for fun, never been teased for conforming to a stereotype, never been ostracised or excluded based on one, never been bullied. I'm also glad you've been lucky enough to never accidentally refer to a stereotype to unfairly judge another person, never missed out on a new friendship due to stereotype-based assumptions.
If this is the case, you are, I suspect, seriously in the minority.


So I've been told :P
You put the 'ass' in mass murder.

User avatar
Pez Dispens3r
is not a stick figure.
Posts: 2079
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:08 am UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:50 am UTC

scienceroboticspunk wrote:Also schools are not just prisons and they are surprisingly great places to learn both social interaction and to actually learn in classes.

I said earlier that schools are akin to prisons, but I didn't mean they are prisons. Not even metaphorically. The teachers aren't wardens and the students aren't incarcerated there. But a whole lot of what schools are is behaviour management, and observation, such as in prisons and hospitals, and historically they have been a lot more like that. A principal once told me he was amazed at schools, because a bell will ring and suddenly everyone stops what they're doing and shuffles along to the next place. Teachers sometimes stand in the back corners of classrooms because it enables them to easily observe the class without being easily observed, which is a position of power in the Big Brother sense. These are such things you would not normally get at a university, which is a great place to socially interact and learn. This is all that is meant.
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:I feel like you're probably an ocelot, and I feel like I want to eat you. Feeling is fun!
this isn't my cow

dg61
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:30 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby dg61 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:19 am UTC

GordonT wrote:"Hey, did you know that American currency doesn't have any real value and that everyone in the country is slave to a self-perpetuating debt designed to screw the lower classes and make corporations and bankers ridiculously rich?"
.

You know, I'm a nerd and my favorite thing to talk is nerdery. Nonetheless, in my experience, a statement of political philosophy is under most circumstances not as good a conversation opener as "hi" or "how are things going?".

User avatar
Weeks
Hey Baby, wanna make a fortnight?
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:41 am UTC
Location: Ciudad de Panamá, Panamá

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Weeks » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:51 am UTC

The point: people are different, but we can learn to be similar enough to communicate and/or work together.
TaintedDeity wrote:Tainted Deity
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Dthen wrote:FUCK CHRISTMAS FUCK EVERYTHING FUCK YOU TOO FUCK OFF

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26767
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:39 pm UTC

dg61 wrote:Nonetheless, in my experience, a statement of political philosophy is under most circumstances not as good a conversation opener as "hi" or "how are things going?".

If nothing else, it almost always violates the maxim of relevance (there called Relation). Your political philosophy is only relevant if the conversation moves in that direction, or is in a polisci class or something. In general conversational circumstances, on the other hand, violating that maxim as often as not indicates a lack of conversational or social skills, and thus makes most of us less interested in continuing the discussion right off the bat.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:03 pm UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
scienceroboticspunk wrote:Also schools are not just prisons and they are surprisingly great places to learn both social interaction and to actually learn in classes.

I said earlier that schools are akin to prisons, but I didn't mean they are prisons. Not even metaphorically. The teachers aren't wardens and the students aren't incarcerated there. But a whole lot of what schools are is behaviour management, and observation, such as in prisons and hospitals, and historically they have been a lot more like that. A principal once told me he was amazed at schools, because a bell will ring and suddenly everyone stops what they're doing and shuffles along to the next place. Teachers sometimes stand in the back corners of classrooms because it enables them to easily observe the class without being easily observed, which is a position of power in the Big Brother sense. These are such things you would not normally get at a university, which is a great place to socially interact and learn. This is all that is meant.


Incidental note, if you are interested in the topic, there's a documentary floating around called "The War on Kids" that looks at this in some detail. The film includes an amusing montage where they compare a particular high school to a minimum security prison, and similarities are actually pretty eerie. Can't comment too much on the accuracy of the film beyond that, though.

KFRelic
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:33 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby KFRelic » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:49 am UTC

My school is pretty typical: AP's belong in insane asylums, and most people have an IQ of under 100.
The hair part, especially - I mean, shit, this one kid dyed his hair blond so we had to look at it until it went away for three months.
And yeah, I get it, I can only bench 35. I'd love to see you read and write binary and hexadecimal, encrypt it, and decrypt it.

dg61
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:30 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby dg61 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:20 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
dg61 wrote:Nonetheless, in my experience, a statement of political philosophy is under most circumstances not as good a conversation opener as "hi" or "how are things going?".

If nothing else, it almost always violates the maxim of relevance (there called Relation). Your political philosophy is only relevant if the conversation moves in that direction, or is in a polisci class or something. In general conversational circumstances, on the other hand, violating that maxim as often as not indicates a lack of conversational or social skills, and thus makes most of us less interested in continuing the discussion right off the bat.

This is amusingly deadpan for some reason. Anyhow, even if you are hellbent on discussing something, you should get to it by steering the conversation in that direction. Sledgehammer openings are less useful than nail openings.

Two-Fry
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Two-Fry » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:29 am UTC

KFRelic wrote:My school is pretty typical: AP's belong in insane asylums, and most people have an IQ of under 100.

FYI, IQ tests are scored so that the mean score is 100, so no matter how intelligent our society got, that probably won't change.
The hair part, especially - I mean, shit, this one kid dyed his hair blond so we had to look at it until it went away for three months.

Gasp! You poor thing, having to look at blonde hair
And yeah, I get it, I can only bench 35. I'd love to see you read and write binary and hexadecimal, encrypt it, and decrypt it.

Come now, are you seriously saying that an understanding of base x with x =/= 10 number systems somehow makes you superior to everyone else? That certainly ranks up there with one of the most irrelevant ways of measuring intelligence, let alone someone's worth.
podbaydoor wrote:^What this person said.

achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby achan1058 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:35 am UTC

KFRelic wrote:My school is pretty typical: AP's belong in insane asylums, and most people have an IQ of under 100.
The hair part, especially - I mean, shit, this one kid dyed his hair blond so we had to look at it until it went away for three months.
And yeah, I get it, I can only bench 35. I'd love to see you read and write binary and hexadecimal, encrypt it, and decrypt it.
What encryption system, and what key? If you are going to make an arrogant statement, please try to get the wordings properly.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26767
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:50 am UTC

And besides, what about trying to learn to "read" binary (whatever that's even supposed to mean...) and work on being more physically able? It's not like the first is so hard to learn that you can't break it up with strings of pushups every once in awhile or something.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

gereffi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gereffi » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:24 am UTC

I don't understand why learning is so important. Don't get me wrong, I believe that school is important. I'm going to college next year and I hope to come out of it with a degree in engineering. I get mostly A's and people see me as being very intelligent. But who cares if I can remember the name of all 44 presidents or I can program with Flash? Isn't social interaction more important? And so what if people's lives revolve around sports or how they look? I can talk about baseball all day. I've sat down and played Magic: the Gathering for a whole day. I care about my appearance and I care about my friends. I make sure I get good grades, but why do I need to learn useless material? What is so great about learning? Will a doctor knowing more about advanced calculus advance society? If the president knew more about microbiology, would it better the country? If learning makes you happy, go forth and be merry. But don't try to push it on someone else who might enjoy sports or music more. Because in the end, happiness is all that's important.

achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby achan1058 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:24 am UTC

Without knowledge, how are you supposed to detect BS and lies that other people say to you? While I don't see the point of remembering the presidents of US, knowing a bit of general science, history, or etc. does make you a better person. For instance, a lot of the current conflict of the world has to do with the aftermath of WWII and the cold war. Without knowing science, you would not be able to tell the difference between real science, which does work and benefit humanity, and pseudo-science, which doesn't work. Also, I did say something about probability and gambling in the other thread. Anyways, I think this is going off topic.

User avatar
TheAmazingRando
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 am UTC
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby TheAmazingRando » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:01 am UTC

KFRelic wrote:And yeah, I get it, I can only bench 35. I'd love to see you read and write binary and hexadecimal, encrypt it, and decrypt it.
Do you mean encryption as in converting between alphanumeric characters and their binary representations? Because
1. That's a completely mechanical process that doesn't require any intelligence to carry out once learned, and it isn't very difficult to learn. Reading it quickly is more difficult, but then it's just a matter of practice. Which, hey, so is lifting weights.
2. Representing text in binary is technically a substitution cypher, but it isn't generally considered encryption, since the standards for conversion are common knowledge. Saying you're encrypting it makes it sound like you're running an encryption algorithm on it in addition to representing it in binary. If you were, say, doing Huffman encoding/decoding by hand I would be impressed. As it stands, substitution cyphers are trivial to crack (which is why they're puzzles in the newspaper)
3. You're never going to need to do this by hand, ever. If you become a computer programmer you're probably going to end up looking at the octal dump of a file at some point, you might even need to recognize the form of ASCII-encoded characters if, for example, you're trying to determine whether what you're looking at is an ASCII file skewed by a couple bits, but even then you wouldn't be converting it back into text by hand. You might be able to concoct some situation where this would be necessary, but it would be very far-fetched.
4. Lifting reasonably heavy things is something that you'll almost certainly need to be able to do unless you don't ever plan on having a job that involves menial labor, moving, getting furniture, etc. Knowing how to count in bases other than 10, on the other hand, is something 99% of people will never have to do.

If someone's mocking you for spending time on your own interests rather than on their interests (bench pressing), they're an asshole. But your interests are not inherently better than theirs. Elitism is childish and destructive.

freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:38 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:00 pm UTC

I did not read through this entire thread so forgive me if this has come up, but those stereotypes seriously suck. My school was full of morons, but the top 10 of my class were all varsity athletes except for like 2, and one of them was kick boxing outside of school semi-well, the other danced I think. I was third in my class and guess what, i skateboard. I never touched marijuana, but thats besides the point. I go to a top 10 engineering school and there are students here who smoke pot, skateboard etc. Many of my closest friends cared more about learning than myself in high school and fit into most of your stereotypes. Just because one enjoys the vices of life does not mean they don't enjoy learning.

Just my 2 cents.

gereffi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gereffi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:05 am UTC

Saw this, and it reminded me of this thread. Calvin is so right.

Image

User avatar
Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
Posts: 3113
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:27 pm UTC

gereffi wrote:I don't understand why learning is so important. .


Well I am a big believer in a liberal education for a variety of reasons.

1) You live in a representative democracy where life changing decisions are regularly made, and you as a citizen should have an intelligent voice in the large debates. Would you want to live in a a democracy where the typical voter is completely ignorant?

2) It makes you a more intereseting person who is better able to converse and live in our society. People use a lot of references, allusions, etc in their everyday speech and life is more rewarding when you don't need everything explained to you. You don't want to end up in the 2nd ring of the 7th circle of hell do you??? (If your first reaction is "hey thats a reference to Dantes Divine Comedy" BAM you win)
Or, Obama needs to watch his diet, we don't need another Taft!

3) By being exposed to everything you have a better chance of being inspired or finding some life path. There are probably several people whose lives are lacking because they not got exposed to something that could have changed their life.

4) Lots of other reasons, the XKCD'ers can fill you in on.
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.

gereffi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gereffi » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:41 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:1) You live in a representative democracy where life changing decisions are regularly made, and you as a citizen should have an intelligent voice in the large debates. Would you want to live in a a democracy where the typical voter is completely ignorant?

I can watch the news or read about current events online. I guess that counts as learning. But my opinion doesn't really matter that much. Enough of the nation's voters are completely ignorant that people who actually care don't make a very big splash. All most people can see is someone's skin color, or someone's gender. Just think about it. At one time, there were about ten serious contenders for becoming the Democratic nominee to run for president. The only two that most people could name just happened to be the only black man and the only woman. Politics are based off of how much you can stand out from your competition and how normal you appear to be.
2) It makes you a more intereseting person who is better able to converse and live in our society. People use a lot of references, allusions, etc in their everyday speech and life is more rewarding when you don't need everything explained to you. You don't want to end up in the 2nd ring of the 7th circle of hell do you??? (If your first reaction is "hey thats a reference to Dantes Divine Comedy" BAM you win)
Or, Obama needs to watch his diet, we don't need another Taft!

Most people don't use references like that in everyday speech. And if they do, I probably won't hang around them much longer. Seriously. People allude to movies, TV shows, and video games. I can't remember the last allusion to a book I've ever heard.

And I'm not sure what being well read has to do with learning anyway.

3) By being exposed to everything you have a better chance of being inspired or finding some life path. There are probably several people whose lives are lacking because they not got exposed to something that could have changed their life.


The sort of people who find a life path through learning are the kind of people I don't want to be around. They might spend all day thinking about bugs or what's going on in space. Sure, these things can be fun to think about once in a while, but they shouldn't become one's life path. I find that being with my friends, whether we're just playing video games or going to the ballpark, fulfilling enough, thank you.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26767
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:18 am UTC

gereffi wrote:I can't remember the last allusion to a book I've ever heard.

Well that's not surprising if you haven't read books enough to even know when one is being alluded to.

Seriously, the list of really common English expressions that come from Shakespeare alone is mind-boggling. But hey, it's your loss if they all just go right over your head. And if you want to be uneducated and ignorant because other people are uneducated and ignorant, then fine, that's your right.

But hi, we're the xkcd forum. Have you read the comic? Or, say, anything else on the forum? I don't expect to be the last person who takes issue with your disheartening level of purposeful ignorance.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
Posts: 3113
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Ixtellor » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:33 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
gereffi wrote:I can't remember the last allusion to a book I've ever heard.

Well that's not surprising if you haven't read books enough to even know when one is being alluded to.

.


Spot on. You hear allusions all the time, you just don't get it.

To answer your 'question'. You can have a perfectly happy life hanging out. Lots of peoples lives revolve around TV and movies. AKA the boob tube. <--- you need an education to know why, or understand why, its called that.

Also your whole analysis about politics... [
gereffi wrote:All most people can see is someone's skin color, or someone's gender. Just think about it. At one time, there were about ten serious contenders for becoming the Democratic nominee to run for president. The only two that most people could name just happened to be the only black man and the only woman. Politics are based off of how much you can stand out from your competition and how normal you appear to be.


Apparently your aspiring for to be part of "most people".
I don't see how you can complain about it, and at the same time advocate that life style.

Why bother posting here, when you could be watching Scary Movie III?!?!?
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.

Captain_Thunder
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:18 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Captain_Thunder » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:45 pm UTC

ITT: gereffi is an alt account for GordonT. Once gereffi has been convinced of the benefits of an intellectual lifestyle, GordonT will jump out from behind the bushes and yell, "LOL U GUYS R SO ELITIST!!1" He will then reveal that it was all an elaborate setup for epic lulz.

User avatar
BlahBlahBlah
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:48 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby BlahBlahBlah » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:12 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:
gereffi wrote:All most people can see is someone's skin color, or someone's gender. Just think about it. At one time, there were about ten serious contenders for becoming the Democratic nominee to run for president. The only two that most people could name just happened to be the only black man and the only woman. Politics are based off of how much you can stand out from your competition and how normal you appear to be.

Apparently your aspiring for to be part of "most people".
I don't see how you can complain about it, and at the same time advocate that life style.

I think he may mean something like, "Everyone does it and they always will, so why not just give in to the trend and watch TV all the time?" But that hardly seems compatible with his stated desire to become an engineer.

Gereffi, there would be no principles of engineering for you to study unless some people thought it important to learn about the world. The computer that you use to write posts about the unimportance of learning would not exist without them, either. Sure, a doctor may not need much history or advanced calculus, but the love of learning as a general principle is very important.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby BlackSails » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:31 pm UTC

There is a one word answer to this thread:

Feynman. You really cannot argue that he wasnt brilliant. He also spent much of his time playing drums, smoking drugs and having random casual sex. (And unlike Schrodinger, it wasnt with 12 year old girls)

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby bigglesworth » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:41 pm UTC

Also, Kary Mullis, who came up with PCR while utterly out of his gourd.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby BlackSails » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:23 am UTC

He didnt come up with PCR though, just realized you could use the polymerase from Taq for much much better results (or so Ive been told)

Also, Heisenberg was a player.

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:30 am UTC

Wikipedia suggests it was him, but I wouldn't rely on it in such a contested area.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

The Happy Genius
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:17 am UTC
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby The Happy Genius » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:27 am UTC

What's the purpose of contempt for idiots? Why dwell on the stupidity of others? Of course, they may temporarily, and immediately, annoy, but if one looks not a minute into the future, does this short period of annoyance really ruin your life to the point of rage? A series of small events that makes one question the mental capacity of ones peers collectively affects less than the anger one experiences by dwelling on that anger.

You should see the positive of a society of idiots. If you are truly more intelligent, and maybe if you were a little more open minded and less arrogant, you could see the vast opportunity around you that the less ambitious will never experience.

User avatar
Jorpho
Posts: 6279
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 am UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Jorpho » Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:46 am UTC

I rather like this thread.

gereffi wrote:If learning makes you happy, go forth and be merry. But don't try to push it on someone else who might enjoy sports or music more. Because in the end, happiness is all that's important.
Society tends to expect more of an individual than the blind pursuit of happiness.

The Happy Genius wrote:What's the purpose of contempt for idiots? Why dwell on the stupidity of others? Of course, they may temporarily, and immediately, annoy, but if one looks not a minute into the future, does this short period of annoyance really ruin your life to the point of rage?
I suspect it can actually be a tremendously effective motivating force.

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:38 am UTC

If you're building a giant death-ray perhaps.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

gereffi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gereffi » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:10 am UTC

BlahBlahBlah wrote:Gereffi, there would be no principles of engineering for you to study unless some people thought it important to learn about the world. The computer that you use to write posts about the unimportance of learning would not exist without them, either. Sure, a doctor may not need much history or advanced calculus, but the love of learning as a general principle is very important.


I get that, I really do. Someone in the past had to lead the way for learning, and it's great that they did. It's what they enjoyed. And it was also their job. They made a living on developing scientific theories or writing their novel.

I plan on doing the same thing. I'll learn what I need to know, and I'll make a living with that information. But after that, who cares how well read I am?

And it's not just about me. How would humanity be better if the common blue-collar worker read more Shakespeare? Or if more housewives knew about how bills pass through committees in Congress? It wouldn't make a bit of difference.

So if those blue-collar workers would rather lift weights than learn astronomy, what's the harm in that? Or if a housewife would rather spend her free time crocheting, why shouldn't she? If it's not what someone really enjoys, why should they spend their time learning?

Rilian
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:33 pm UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Rilian » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:31 am UTC

I started out interested in learning, as I believe everyone does. Every one. But school is so awful that it kills interest. Anything I've ever had to "study" in school now makes me throw up. My math program doesn't require any foreign language, so you know what I do in my free time? I study like 10 different languages!
And I'm -2.

User avatar
cjmcjmcjmcjm
Posts: 1158
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:15 am UTC
Location: Anywhere the internet is strong

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:53 am UTC

Rilian wrote:I started out interested in learning, as I believe everyone does. Every one. But school is so awful that it kills interest. Anything I've ever had to "study" in school now makes me throw up. My math program doesn't require any foreign language, so you know what I do in my free time? I study like 10 different languages!
frezik wrote:Anti-photons move at the speed of dark

DemonDeluxe wrote:Paying to have laws written that allow you to do what you want, is a lot cheaper than paying off the judge every time you want to get away with something shady.

User avatar
Jorpho
Posts: 6279
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 am UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Jorpho » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:33 pm UTC

gereffi wrote:How would humanity be better if the common blue-collar worker read more Shakespeare? Or if more housewives knew about how bills pass through committees in Congress?
In the latter case, there's something to be said for an uninformed populace being easy to manipulate and detrimental to a functioning democracy.

In the former case, well, English classes are useful for improving literacy and teaching students how to organize their thoughts and form cohesive arguments. And if you're going to have English classes, why not study Shakespeare?

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26767
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:12 pm UTC

I've already mentioned how many references in everyday English come from Shakespeare originally. I think that if nothing else your experience of such conversations is enhanced by having some clue where the references come from. (As I also already mentioned: if you think you're not hearing any references to books, it's just because you don't read enough books. Just like if I claimed no one ever makes TV references in conversation, the only thing it would prove is that I don't actually watch TV.)
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

gereffi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gereffi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:33 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
gereffi wrote:How would humanity be better if the common blue-collar worker read more Shakespeare? Or if more housewives knew about how bills pass through committees in Congress?
In the latter case, there's something to be said for an uninformed populace being easy to manipulate and detrimental to a functioning democracy.

Does how the Speaker of the House divide up her committees affect how you vote in any way?

In the former case, well, English classes are useful for improving literacy and teaching students how to organize their thoughts and form cohesive arguments. And if you're going to have English classes, why not study Shakespeare?

I understand why we should go to school. It's important to learn basic things that can help us get through life. I'm not against studying Shakespeare in English class. I've read three of Shakespeare's works in my classes. But if I haven't read Hamlet, I don't think that I'm really missing out on anything.

gmalivuk wrote:I've already mentioned how many references in everyday English come from Shakespeare originally. I think that if nothing else your experience of such conversations is enhanced by having some clue where the references come from. (As I also already mentioned: if you think you're not hearing any references to books, it's just because you don't read enough books. Just like if I claimed no one ever makes TV references in conversation, the only thing it would prove is that I don't actually watch TV.)

OK, so many phrases found in common language is originally Shakespeare's. (Scholars aren't even sure that Shakespeare was actually the original author of most of his works. But that's a different debate for a different time.) How would knowing these phrases help me in any way? I understand what they mean. The only thing these facts could do for me is make me look like I read classic works. And I don't really care about trying to be someone I'm not.

And if someone doesn't understand allusions to modern pop culture references, whether it's TV, music, movies, etc, I would find this much worse than not understanding that a phrase was coined by Shakespeare.

User avatar
Jorpho
Posts: 6279
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:31 am UTC
Location: Canada

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Jorpho » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:01 am UTC

gereffi wrote:Does how the Speaker of the House divide up her committees affect how you vote in any way?
Not being a product of the American school system, I have no idea if specific factoids like that are routinely included in syllabi. I certainly can't recall learning something equivalent about the Canadian political system.

But yes, if she managed to frack it up enough, quite possibly knowledge of the activities of the Speaker of the House would indeed have an effect on someone's vote.

In the former case, well, English classes are useful for improving literacy and teaching students how to organize their thoughts and form cohesive arguments. And if you're going to have English classes, why not study Shakespeare?
I understand why we should go to school. It's important to learn basic things that can help us get through life. I'm not against studying Shakespeare in English class. I've read three of Shakespeare's works in my classes. But if I haven't read Hamlet, I don't think that I'm really missing out on anything.
Like I said, what else would you study in English class?

I kind of have to agree that being able to say "Hey, that phrase you just quoted came from Shakespeare!" is something of a party trick.

gereffi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:29 am UTC

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby gereffi » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:25 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
gereffi wrote:Does how the Speaker of the House divide up her committees affect how you vote in any way?
Not being a product of the American school system, I have no idea if specific factoids like that are routinely included in syllabi. I certainly can't recall learning something equivalent about the Canadian political system.

But yes, if she managed to frack it up enough, quite possibly knowledge of the activities of the Speaker of the House would indeed have an effect on someone's vote

The Speaker is not directly voted into the position, and the committee system is just a system that moves the process along. How the Congressmen feel about the bill will ultimately decide whether the bill is passed. The wording or agreements will probably change many times, so the original draft put through the committee is not very important. And because the average citizen has no power deciding who gets to be the person who decides who is part of these unimportant groups, they really don't need to know how they function.


Jorpho wrote:
In the former case, well, English classes are useful for improving literacy and teaching students how to organize their thoughts and form cohesive arguments. And if you're going to have English classes, why not study Shakespeare?
I understand why we should go to school. It's important to learn basic things that can help us get through life. I'm not against studying Shakespeare in English class. I've read three of Shakespeare's works in my classes. But if I haven't read Hamlet, I don't think that I'm really missing out on anything.
Like I said, what else would you study in English class?.

It's fine to study Shakespeare. But all I was saying was that reading Hamlet on my own so that I can understand where a phrase came from is pretty useless.

User avatar
Chiffre
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:55 pm UTC
Location: Mars

Re: Schools of Fools

Postby Chiffre » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:56 am UTC

@ gereffi:
Jorpho wrote: specific factoids like that are routinely included in syllabi.
:mrgreen:
While Shakespeare is worth reading: even if you aren't native English, you can use it (at a party too), because it is well known.

gereffi wrote: It's important to learn basic things

And it's important to understand how basic they are, then learn more and more and more about them. Not because you know you will need them (though it is pretty common that they become useful one day), but because it is real fun, much more than watching tv. Try reading a science or humanities article that is said to be "easy", but not "popular" or "educational". It is much more fun to get through it (with heavy use of Google,Wikipedia and textbooks) than any other activity.
Old jokes never die, they just generate new functions.


Return to “School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests