Accused of Cheating

The school experience. School related queries, discussions, and stories that aren't specific to a subject.

Moderators: gmalivuk, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:48 am UTC

Also titled: Defending your Honor.

I took a test (University level) a few days ago. I was prepared for the test and proceeded to kick its ass up one side and down the other. Around page 3 or so, I noticed that the girl next to me was (not subtly) cheating off my test. Being an idiot, rather than get up and move I decided to circle incorrect answers on my paper test and bubble the right ones in on my scantron, then after class notified the TA (prof was out of the room) that I thought I was being cheated off of. The TA, however, is convinced I cheated off her, and now I'm in the position of having to defend myself.

Does anybody here have experience in honor violations? Frankly, I've not slept since and been nauseous 24/7. Needless to say, I'm not the cheating type.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby BlackSails » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:57 am UTC

Wait, she copied your wrong answers? Why would they think you cheated off you then?

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:28 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:Wait, she copied your wrong answers? Why would they think you cheated off you then?

Professor doesn't like me?
TA was the only "faculty" representative in the room?
The girl did a better job of crying and looking pathetic than I did?

I don't know. I find out tomorrow morning.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


Vorpals
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:22 am UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Vorpals » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:25 am UTC

I'm really sorry to hear about this. The problem with sitautions like this is that it's really hard to tell who did what. You could do a number of things, but take what I say with a pinch of salt:

Bring up the fact that you notified the TA, not that the girl did. Be careful with this; they could say that you did this to cover up when you didn't do anything.
Bring up that you filled in different answers on the test and the scantron, and that if you were really cheating off of her you would have just filled in the scantron and you must have circled the wrong ones to throw her off. Be careful with this; they could say that you did that as a cover-up when you didn't, but I doubt it.
Ask about the girl's record compared to yours. That might put things in your favor if you have a clean record.
Ask why they think you're to blame and not her, even though you notified them.

Low Caliber
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:34 am UTC
Location: Wolfville, N.S.

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Low Caliber » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:44 am UTC

I have been accused of cheating on a provincial exam in high school just recently, I suggest that you look up the institutes policies on cheating, and the procedures that they are meant to follow when a incident is suspected, it is fairly usual for them not to know them and botch them somehow. That said good academic record would be good and if you know any prof whom knows you fairly well you may wish to tell them.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:58 am UTC

The University has two levels with which to deal with honor violations, a council set up specifically for issues like this, and between the student and professor. The second is the stage I'm at now, and unfortunately it is not bound strictly by enumerated rules. Basically, he can do anything up to failing me out of the course on his own, which I could then appeal to the council. Complicating matters is my career plan. If my hopes of becoming a lawyer are not to be dashed to bits, I have to make sure no mark of cheating ever appears anywhere on my transcript.

The professor was not in the room, and is relying on the TA. The TA is convinced I cheated, not the girl. They've already told the girl she's not under suspicion, without ever examining the examinations.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby achan1058 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:21 am UTC

the_phoenix612 wrote:The professor was not in the room, and is relying on the TA. The TA is convinced I cheated, not the girl. They've already told the girl she's not under suspicion, without ever examining the examinations.
That just seems wrong. I would suspect that the TA is also cheating with the girl as well. Normally, both students would be placed under suspect, and you would have students trying to explain their answers and what not. If the prof trusts the TA, I would just bring it up to the next level immediately. Regardless though, if you score significantly higher than her, there is no way they can accuse you of cheating off her.

Normally, profs don't hate particular students, unless you did something really bad. I mean, they hardly remember students in general, unless you are really good, or did something really nasty in class.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:38 am UTC

achan1058 wrote:
the_phoenix612 wrote:The professor was not in the room, and is relying on the TA. The TA is convinced I cheated, not the girl. They've already told the girl she's not under suspicion, without ever examining the examinations.
That just seems wrong. I would suspect that the TA is also cheating with the girl as well. Normally, both students would be placed under suspect, and you would have students trying to explain their answers and what not. If the prof trusts the TA, I would just bring it up to the next level immediately. Regardless though, if you score significantly higher than her, there is no way they can accuse you of cheating off her.

Normally, profs don't hate particular students, unless you did something really bad. I mean, they hardly remember students in general, unless you are really good, or did something really nasty in class.

The feeling I get from the professor is that he bases his classroom control around having one student he can always fall back on insulting, or rejecting publicly to reaffirm his power. Apparently I'm that student this semester. We've disagreed in discussions in class but I've never said anything personal, or vehement, or taken anything beyond academic lines of question that pertain to the course material.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby achan1058 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:54 am UTC

It just makes no sense. Unless he truly hates you a lot, I can see no reason for him to do it. Surely he is aware of the amount of work he needs to do if you escalate? Paper work, meetings, etc, it's just not worth it to make a potentially false accursion. Unless there is something that you are not telling us.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:59 am UTC

achan1058 wrote:It just makes no sense. Unless he truly hates you a lot, I can see no reason for him to do it. Surely he is aware of the amount of work he needs to do if you escalate? Paper work, meetings, etc, it's just not worth it to make a potentially false accursion. Unless there is something that you are not telling us.

There's not. It may be that I'm overreacting. This all happened late last week and the first time I'll see him again is tomorrow in class. It could well be that he drops it. Unfortunately, that does little to stem my anxiety.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


User avatar
BlackSails
Posts: 5315
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:48 am UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby BlackSails » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:21 pm UTC

What I meant is: Arent the answers you handed in completely different from the answers she handed in?

User avatar
Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
Posts: 3113
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

Simple solution is that you both take the test again, at which point it becomes evident who cheated.

Most likely if she is faced with any situation where she will be found out (retaking the test) she will crack and confess.

Or as blacksails was saying... if you have all right answers and she has all wrong... game over.
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.

sikyon
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:45 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby sikyon » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:20 pm UTC

It shouldn't be an issue if you have different anwsers (though... for one part of the test you probably had the same anwsers, before you noticed).

If the prof is not willing to co-operate, take it to the administrative step. I would also suggest that even if this gets dropped, you carefully review your marks on your final exam. They're still going to be marking it, and you may need a friend's test to help dispute any inconsistencies in marking.

You're in a sticky wicket either way - to be honest what you should have done is just circled the wrong anwsers and not brought it up after class. The TA can't prove anything since you'll have different anwsers for alot of it (and you will have the right anwsers consistently) and she's not going to bring it up since she was cheating.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:22 pm UTC

Well, the teacher is giving me a 0 on the test. He wasnt there, so he's just going with his TA with no proof. Said there was no correlation between my answers and hers. I got an A on the test, though. He did say he's willing to let me drop the class without penalty, but I think I should appeal this.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


User avatar
LaserGuy
Posts: 4581
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:33 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:36 pm UTC

Personally, I would absolutely be appealing this. I'd suggest talking to the Student Appeals Centre or the Ombudsperson or whoever manages such matters ASAP; at least lay out your case to them and see if they feel that it was handled appropriately. Try to document everything as best as you are able.

As far as sikyon's concerns go, I believe that under such circumstances you can probably request that your final exam be marked by a third party. At least, that's how I've seen it handled before.

General_Norris
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:10 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby General_Norris » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:43 pm UTC

Appeal this, the answer are not the same there's no reason to think you cheated at all. They just aren't caring, show them that they should.

User avatar
TaintedDeity
Posts: 4003
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:22 pm UTC
Location: England;

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:46 pm UTC

There's no correlation... and they still say you were cheating?
That's just illogical.
Be a hassle for them.
Ⓞⓞ◯

User avatar
Rinsaikeru
Pawn, soon to be a Queen
Posts: 2166
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:26 am UTC
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Rinsaikeru » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:11 pm UTC

Hassle them lots, they're costing you time, money and potentially a career. Be dogged.
Rice Puddin.

achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby achan1058 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:43 pm UTC

I say drop the class, THEN appeal. I am not going to trust them grading the final or the rest of the assignment after this. I am also not going to let them off the hook neither. The TA and prof should both have an inquiry on their head for this.

To put it rudely. If you are being perfectly honest about what you said, then I believe neither the prof not the TA has any right to continue to teach in a university or college.

Windmill
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:29 pm UTC
Location: Southern US
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Windmill » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:00 pm UTC

Of course there would be no correlation between her answers and yours, you circled the wrong answers in your test and put the correct ones on the scantron. Go to your Ombudsman and figure out what to do. You're probably going to have to drop this class, but if you're going down for cheating, you better take the TA and professor with you. This is not how cheating is handled (at Texas Tech it goes through Student Judicial Services). I would be outright angry and ready to take down the whole department.

Bottom line: You can prove you know the material, you made an A on that test.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:31 pm UTC

They're letting me drop, and right now it hasn't entered any official channels. We have an honors council for things like this, but it hasn't gotten there yet. I was discussing with the professor after class today and he said he didn't want to "get into philosophical or legal discussions" when I pointed out that I never looked at her exam. That astounded me.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


General_Norris
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:10 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby General_Norris » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:38 pm UTC

the_phoenix612 wrote: he said he didn't want to "get into philosophical or legal discussions"


In other words "I don't care, I know I'm wrong but I don't care". Too bad he doesn't have any right to avoid getting in a "legal discussion" where he can get punished.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:00 pm UTC

General_Norris wrote:
the_phoenix612 wrote: he said he didn't want to "get into philosophical or legal discussions"


In other words "I don't care, I know I'm wrong but I don't care". Too bad he doesn't have any right to avoid getting in a "legal discussion" where he can get punished.

I mostly worry if I appeal things end up worse than they are now. I could live with dropping the class. Thing is, my university does "Q-drops" where the class still shows on your transcript with a Q where the grade is.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


User avatar
Velict
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:07 pm UTC
Location: Icecrown Citadel

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Velict » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:04 pm UTC

I may be naive, but I don't think appealing or talking to other university officials is going make things any worse. You're already being screwed over by this professor.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:12 pm UTC

Velict wrote:I may be naive, but I don't think appealing or talking to other university officials is going make things any worse. You're already being screwed over by this professor.

Right now, the professor "has no vested interest in ruining my career". I'm afraid to change that.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


User avatar
TaintedDeity
Posts: 4003
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:22 pm UTC
Location: England;

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:23 pm UTC

The implication being "and that can change"
So your professor is threatening you?
Ⓞⓞ◯

Shivari
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:10 am UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Shivari » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:27 pm UTC

the_phoenix612 wrote:
Velict wrote:I may be naive, but I don't think appealing or talking to other university officials is going make things any worse. You're already being screwed over by this professor.

Right now, the professor "has no vested interest in ruining my career". I'm afraid to change that.


He's only saying that to try to appease you into not taking it to a higher level, because he knows that you could ruin him for accusing you of something when he has stated that your answers don't even correlate to hers. Seriously, there's absolutely no reason to not take this as high as you can. Someone will understand your situation as the professor is acting like an idiot. I'd appeal for the ability to drop the class without the "Q" (I wouldn't trust the professor in the future after this, to be honest) and bitch as much as you can about it in order to give both the professor and the TA a black eye. These people are in the wrong, not you, so you have no reason to be afraid of taking action.

It's always bothered me how some people are willing to take shit because they're afraid of angering someone above them. Seriously, if this happened to me I'd be out for blood.

TaintedDeity wrote:The implication being "and that can change"
So your professor is threatening you?


It didn't sound like the professor was threatening him, more like the OP is rolling over and taking this like a bitch. No offence, but you should stand up for yourself.

achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby achan1058 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:44 am UTC

Shivari wrote:
the_phoenix612 wrote:
Velict wrote:I may be naive, but I don't think appealing or talking to other university officials is going make things any worse. You're already being screwed over by this professor.

Right now, the professor "has no vested interest in ruining my career". I'm afraid to change that.


He's only saying that to try to appease you into not taking it to a higher level, because he knows that you could ruin him for accusing you of something when he has stated that your answers don't even correlate to hers. Seriously, there's absolutely no reason to not take this as high as you can. Someone will understand your situation as the professor is acting like an idiot. I'd appeal for the ability to drop the class without the "Q" (I wouldn't trust the professor in the future after this, to be honest) and bitch as much as you can about it in order to give both the professor and the TA a black eye. These people are in the wrong, not you, so you have no reason to be afraid of taking action.
Personally, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a full refund. To be honest though, the reaction of the prof is just weird. I mean, it makes little sense, unless the TA is his grad student, and the TA is also cheating.

Oh, did you record any of the conversations? If so, he is pretty much screwed at this point. Another thing is, are there any student support group or what-nots in your school? Preferably one that can be confidential, at least until you want them to help you testify or something. They probably know what to do better than forum members.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:10 am UTC

Talked to the department head, he said all it takes to "convict" a student of cheating is the proctor's word. At that point, there is no recourse. It's her word against mine. This really is the second best of all options.

Trust me, this is not the only place I'm getting advice. It just happens to be the best place to get ahold of as many people who are as smart as possible as quickly as possible. All across the internet, people on numerous fora are also helping me, and I'm talking to several student advocate groups as well as faculty advisors, as well as my parents (who have no lack of higher education themselves).

I do appreciate all your input, though.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


achan1058
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:50 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby achan1058 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 am UTC

the_phoenix612 wrote:Talked to the department head, he said all it takes to "convict" a student of cheating is the proctor's word. At that point, there is no recourse. It's her word against mine. This really is the second best of all options.

Trust me, this is not the only place I'm getting advice. It just happens to be the best place to get ahold of as many people who are as smart as possible as quickly as possible. All across the internet, people on numerous fora are also helping me, and I'm talking to several student advocate groups as well as faculty advisors, as well as my parents (who have no lack of higher education themselves).

I do appreciate all your input, though.
I am interested to know what school this is, given how unreasonable some of the things are handled.

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:35 am UTC

achan1058 wrote:
the_phoenix612 wrote:Talked to the department head, he said all it takes to "convict" a student of cheating is the proctor's word. At that point, there is no recourse. It's her word against mine. This really is the second best of all options.

Trust me, this is not the only place I'm getting advice. It just happens to be the best place to get ahold of as many people who are as smart as possible as quickly as possible. All across the internet, people on numerous fora are also helping me, and I'm talking to several student advocate groups as well as faculty advisors, as well as my parents (who have no lack of higher education themselves).

I do appreciate all your input, though.
I am interested to know what school this is, given how unreasonable some of the things are handled.

I think I'm understandably hesitant to release that information.
Vi verborum omnia superabo


User avatar
Velict
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:07 pm UTC
Location: Icecrown Citadel

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Velict » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:38 am UTC

Random folks emailing your dean isn't going to help much I suppose :twisted:

User avatar
Yakk
Poster with most posts but no title.
Posts: 11116
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:27 pm UTC
Location: E pur si muove

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Yakk » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:57 am UTC

What are the laws on one-party recording of conversations?

What are the university policies on same?

If reasonably positive in both cases (be aware, in some areas, recording a conversation without the knowledge and consent of everyone present is a felony, in others so long as one party knows it is fine), get a tape recorder. Record all interaction.

While you are at it, keep a diary of every interaction you have. Write in it immediately after each conversation.

If possible, communicate in email. That generates a record.

...

You are in a situation of a power imbalance. Quite honestly, if you fight, you could lose -- the stakes are against you. The game is rigged, and your professor has more capital and more power in it.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Shivari
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:10 am UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Shivari » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:41 am UTC

the_phoenix612 wrote:Talked to the department head, he said all it takes to "convict" a student of cheating is the proctor's word. At that point, there is no recourse. It's her word against mine. This really is the second best of all options.


Hmm, that pretty much nulls all of my advice then. I guess I'd drop the class and take the "Q", and if law school admissions ever ask you questions about it, find a way to explain it in a way that kinda brushes it off (just say that there was a conflict of some sort and hope they move past it). Seriously, this sucks, and I feel really bad for you. The fact that the teacher has supreme authority in situations like this is extremely depressing.

In the future I wouldn't ever snitch again, though.

sikyon
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:45 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby sikyon » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:27 pm UTC

Talked to the department head, he said all it takes to "convict" a student of cheating is the proctor's word. At that point, there is no recourse. It's her word against mine. This really is the second best of all options.


This is either untrue or the worst resolution process I have ever heard about, and is something out of a nightmare.

A 2 of my friends had a crappy incedent in class a few terms ago. They are dating and study alot together. Since they're dating, they tend to sit somewhat close together as well. Never had a problem with it before, but on one test the proctor accused them of cheating because they were sitting nearby each other and they had similar anwsers for their questions. Obviously, the reason would be that they study together and covered the same material and solved the same questions together. Unfortunatly, that's hard as hell to prove. The prof was reasonable but they had to argue their case all throughout the rest of the term before it was resolved, since it was the TA vs them.

Honestly, if I were you I would be wrathful at this point (I'm a pretty vindictive person). I would record as much information as I could, tape it if at all posible, and then bring ti to the dean. I would also ask the dean to allow the conversation to be recorded. Inform them that this information would be used if people needed a reference for why there was a "Q" on your record. I would take it to the students association and file a complaint. I would also ask the campus newspaper to publish an article on cheating regulations on campus based on the evidence you have provided.

Now the only reason I could actually do this at my university is because we're fairly activist and I'm in my last year - and I know most of my profs for that last year and I know they'd agree with me that such a policy was preposterous. However, this might not be the case for you.

But record everything. Make SURE that you have a record of asking the prof not to destroy your test or her test, since you may need them later to prove no correlation. I would also go back to the prof and tell him, straight to his face, that this is the last time you're going to talk to him about the situation in person and if you guys can't resolve this to your satisfaction then you'll be taking it to the dean.


To be perfectly honest, I don't believe your department head when he says that it only takes a proctor's word to convict a student of cheating. Universities are full of smart people and that's a stupid policy. If you are unwilling to provide your university's name, then you need to carefully search their legal codes for regulation policies that directly point to it. At my university, http://www.adm.uwaterloo.ca/infosec/Policies/policy71.htm is pretty much the first thing we learn about... we even have to write a report on it.

If the department head was wrong, then when requesting a hearing specificy that you don't want him governing it. When asked why, tell them that you don't have faith in his fairness because of what he told you before.

If he's right, drop the course and take the "Q". Try to talk to the president or someone higher up to get it fixed for the future, and let it go. Not the end of the world, sometimes we all get screwed and what matters is how we recover.

User avatar
Ixtellor
There are like 4 posters on XKCD that no more about ...
Posts: 3113
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby Ixtellor » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:49 pm UTC

I noticed that your location says Texas. I have some good friends at very high levels in the Texas university system and if you want to PM me the school, I can get information for you, or if you attend one of the schools where I know people with influence could ask them to look into it.

Seems like you have been put in a terrible place. If you happen to be wealthy you might want to consult a lawyer.
The Revolution will not be Twitterized.

User avatar
JBJ
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:20 pm UTC
Location: a point or extent in space

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby JBJ » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:02 pm UTC

sikyon wrote:
Talked to the department head, he said all it takes to "convict" a student of cheating is the proctor's word. At that point, there is no recourse. It's her word against mine. This really is the second best of all options.


This is either untrue or the worst resolution process I have ever heard about, and is something out of a nightmare.

Unfortunately, it is true. However, the proctor or professor has to have some reasonable justification for accusing a person of cheating.

Cheating is not just defined as getting answers, if you give answers to another student you are also guilty of cheating.
My university's definitions for cheating wrote:Giving or receiving information during an exam ("exam" includes tests and quizzes)
Using unauthorized material (like notes) during an exam; unauthorized dissemination or receipt of exams, exam materials, contents, or answer keys
Taking an exam or writing a paper for another student or asking someone to take an exam or write a paper for you (this includes shared work and/or group-produced answers on take-home exams).
Submitting the same paper–or different versions of what is substantially the same paper–for more than one course
Misrepresenting or fabricating written work, sources, research, or results as well as helping another student commit an act of academic dishonesty or lying to protect a student who has committed such an act.


Phoenix612 - seeing as how you admitted that when you noticed the other girl cheating from your paper, by circling the answers on your paper and allowing her to see them (even if it was to sabotage her efforts), it is technically considered cheating. A stupid technicality for sure, and I'd have hoped that the proctor or professor would see that. But, given the evidence before them (I'm guessing your circled answers matched her scantron answers?) it would be possible for them to justify the charge.

This doesn't mean that you just have to take it, though. You can still appeal to the department head, and in my opinion you still have a valid case. That is assuming, of course, that level heads and common sense prevail. Not knowing your environment or the people, you'd have to make that call. Considering that there is a valid justification from the proctor's perspective, it may be an uphill battle.

I'm curious though, did the other student (who cheated off you) get penalized as well? If they are going with the accusation that you provided answers, and she was not penalized, they've blown their whole argument right there. From the situation you described, either you both have to get penalized or neither of you can. If you decide to drop, maybe you can at least get the satisfaction of taking the other student down with you?
So, you sacked the cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker?
The second cocky khaki Kicky Sack sock plucker I've sacked since the sixth sitting sheet slitter got sick.

General_Norris
Posts: 1399
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:10 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby General_Norris » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:25 pm UTC

I think they are convering their asses instead of telling you the truth. I mean, think about it. Pupil 2903849 accuse the teacher, your friend, of not being fair when he caught you cheating in a exam. They are not going to side with you, because they will even refuse to think that it's possible their friend is wrong.

I say, tape it and go talk with the Dean. Reasoning with them is going to be useless.

I would follow sikyon's advice. It's really good.

sikyon
Posts: 344
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:45 pm UTC

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby sikyon » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:51 pm UTC

JBJ wrote:Unfortunately, it is true. However, the proctor or professor has to have some reasonable justification for accusing a person of cheating.

Cheating is not just defined as getting answers, if you give answers to another student you are also guilty of cheating.


Absolutly. However, this requires both parties to be penalized, as you said.

JBJ wrote:Unfortunately, it is true. However, the proctor or professor has to have some reasonable justification for accusing a person of cheating.

Cheating is not just defined as getting answers, if you give answers to another student you are also guilty of cheating.

I'm curious though, did the other student (who cheated off you) get penalized as well? If they are going with the accusation that you provided answers, and she was not penalized, they've blown their whole argument right there. From the situation you described, either you both have to get penalized or neither of you can. If you decide to drop, maybe you can at least get the satisfaction of taking the other student down with you?



If you have not told them what you did yet (circle the wrong anwsers) DO NOT DO IT. This is self-incriminating. You need to focus on the fact that there is no correlation in your tests involved, so no cheating occured. You may want to go to the proctor directly and specifically ask what made her think you were cheating. Give the proctor a way out - mention that when you talked to the prof there was no correlation in your tests, so even in the likely event that the proctor thought you were cheating (which technically you were by providing anwsers) it was an "easy" mistake to make and the facts afterwards showed that there was no evidence therein. Remember, you're trying to prove you're innocent, not that the other girl is guilty. I don't know if you've taken any defensible recommendation writing courses or have any experience with it, but I would prepare an arguement ahead of time with something like this:

A) Situation of Concern (test, class, prof, your previous academic record, your relationship to the cheater, the test itself, what happened (you just wrote your test, don't tell them that you circled the wrong anwsers unless you already have), attempts at reconciliation (with an appendix with a record of your communications, with dates and who said what). Also include a breif section on your understanding of university rules on cheating and conflict resoltuion, based on your research of the official policies)
B) What you think they think. So looking at it from their point of view, why do you think they think you were cheating. Sidelong glances? The girl was furiously staring at your paper? A simple misunderstanding?
C) Why you think you are right. Refute their viewpoint. Provide evidence such as non-correlation of the tests to show that you did not cheat. Your academic record.
D) Discuss venues of resoltuion. Dropping the incident. Why the proposed punishment by the prof might be too harsh. Offer to rewrite the test to prove your abilities, and why that might be suitble.

I would submit this in person to the affected parties before calling in someone higher up, as further proof of your good faith intentions. Remember - you want to make yourself seem as though you are the victim, are a sympathetic character, and reasonable. If you put yourself in the position of "oh I'm a jackass that fed someone the wrong anwsers" then you're going to have a much tougher time.

Edit: Remember to balance your needs. This is going to be a stressful, drawn out event that is going to require effort by the sounds of it. A single "Q" on your transcript isn't really going to hurt you, especially if it's a first or second year thing (but even not much after that). Consider the amount of effort you are pouring into this vs the expected return, and how much your other classes may suffer. And yes, your own sense of moral justice is important as well - is it going to hurt you more to let justice go unserved or to put in all the extra effort vs reward.

"One day, you might need this. But nobody is going to tell you that you need it. It's up to you to remember what I'm teaching you, and remember it when that time comes. The details I'm teaching you right now are just to help you remember it and make it eaisier for you to relearn it down the road, but it's up to you to find ways to use it. I am not, after all, in excersize science."

User avatar
the_phoenix612
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:27 am UTC
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Accused of Cheating

Postby the_phoenix612 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:47 pm UTC

Here's the way I'm looking at it. There are several possibilities:
1: Expulsion from the University
2: Failure of the class, with a mark of cheating
3: A 0 on this test, forced to stay in (tantamount to cheating, as its based off 3 tests) with a mark of cheating
4: Failure of the test/class with no mark of cheating
5: Dropping the class with no mark of cheating
6: Complete vindication

I'm at 5 right now. The difference between 5 and 6 is, in my mind, negligible and not in proportion to the amount of work it would take to go after the establishment. Believe me when I say my friends are shocked that I'm not bringing all my intellectual and argumentative forces to bear, but honestly I would rather not risk anything worse. If I appeal, everything comes back on the table.

Given the professor (and department head)'s proclivity to supporting the TA above all else, the burden is shifted to ME to prove THEM wrong. And the only issue at hand is whether or not I looked at her paper. This is incredibly difficult to DISprove. Answer patterns, or lack thereof, don't help me in this case. The department head described it thusly:

If he was proctoring an exam and saw a student look at another's test, he could walk over, pick up the test, and not allow the student to complete the test and begin cheating prosecution all solely because he saw them looking. To be cheating, it is not necessary to USE the information improperly obtained, let alone use it competently. So this argument has been dismissed.

The other girl, in the immediate aftermath, was cleared of any wrongdoing immediately by the professor, again on the word of the TA. I believe the phrase used was "completely clear of any wrongdoing. You have nothing to worry about".

Does this suck? Yes. Am I getting screwed? Yes. Am I getting by with much, much less than the usual result given their arguments (specifically the way they present them)? Yes. And it is this final point that weighs most heavily on my mind.
Vi verborum omnia superabo



Return to “School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests