My school fails at computer security...

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Thank God I'm an Atheist » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

BrighTide wrote:Other than that though the admin is death on anyone with anything not school related on their H drive, and will completely ban people from computer access at the slightest provocation, which no one really wants to risk, especially in senior.


This. I live in England and am in the equivalent of Sophomore (I am unsure of the usage of Sophomore in a sentence =p). However we still have important exams in (Sophomore) that enable us to take the (Senior year exams) that we want to.

I definitely think that I could try some kind of prank and make it work, however it is like I would get found out by some means.
Plus I am far too much of a goody four shoes, I have two pairs of shoes, to attempt anything despite having the technical know-how to do so. :roll:

I don't think it's likely I'll be pulling any kind of stunt in the near future, however frustrating it is that I and a couple of friends have more Computing knowledge than the entire IT department put together. :evil:

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby FierstArter » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:10 pm UTC

My school had the "Admin" account unlocked. They also didnt' bother giving it a password...

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:00 am UTC

Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:I don't think it's likely I'll be pulling any kind of stunt in the near future, however frustrating it is that I and a couple of friends have more Computing knowledge than the entire IT department put together. :evil:

thats the perfect explanation of my friend. he and a friend coded a social network from scratch.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:48 am UTC

also, being a TA in the library (near the server room) helps with finding the network topology.

anyway, that was the admin's office :D

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby minno » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:49 am UTC

Well, new reason that my school fails. I walked into a computer lab, where the computer next to mine had been unresponsive for several weeks. The school brought in a new desktop, put it in the spot, and hooked it up to the network (over the course of several days). After setting up the network, the administrator in question apparently forgot to log out :/. I could have really screwed stuff up if I'd wanted to.

I decided to just tell a teacher and log the account out, so I missed my opportunity, I guess.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:59 am UTC

Opportunities to really screw stuff up come along quite regularly, and part of being a mature and functional person involves doing the responsible thing and not exploiting them. I don't think you missed an opportunity, so much as used one to demonstrate you're a valuable member of human society. Congratulations.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:39 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:Opportunities to really screw stuff up come along quite regularly, and part of being a mature and functional person involves doing the responsible thing and not exploiting them. I don't think you missed an opportunity, so much as used one to demonstrate you're a valuable member of human society. Congratulations.

do the three times I was in a similar situation count too? That happens a lot, working around admins.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Sokh » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:26 pm UTC

I think there's enough examples of your douche baggery around school networks in this thread to counter balance any brief span of maturity you may have had those three times.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:15 am UTC

Sokh wrote:I think there's enough examples of your douche baggery around school networks in this thread to counter balance any brief span of maturity you may have had those three times.

that almost makes sense to my immature mind. oh, and I drooled while writing that. *facepalm*

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Sokh » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:46 am UTC

*woooooshhh*

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Steax » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:11 pm UTC

hintss wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:I don't think it's likely I'll be pulling any kind of stunt in the near future, however frustrating it is that I and a couple of friends have more Computing knowledge than the entire IT department put together. :evil:

thats the perfect explanation of my friend. he and a friend coded a social network from scratch.


This is a slight tangent, but coding a social network (as per definition of 'allowing people to login and establish relationships and interact on a website') is easy. The hard part is making it succeed.

Seriously, a lot of people in school will claim to be able to make all sorts of cool things, but that's not really the point. Can make websites? Getting them public is the hard part. Can make web apps? Making them actually used by people isn't easy. Can make cool desktop apps? Finding how to make them usable and defeat the actual competition (i.e. stuff existing already) is a tough nut to crack. Can hack people's computers with l33t skills? Making actual profit and getting away with it isn't exactly obvious.

/a slight rant because people nowadays seem to boast so quickly about their 'abilities' with computers, and feeling that able = successful.

I sometimes figure that some schools undermine computer security for this very reason. Students might be able to get through and wreck relative havoc, but it's rare that they actually do anything dangerous. Of course, I'm not justifying schools on this, since they can't really tell apart 'dangerous' stuff from 'playful-but-not-actually-dangerous' stuff (and it's hard to tell anyway!), so they hope their students will learn to be a bit human and not toy with stuff they know they shouldn't (or they retaliate in a way that is definitely dangerous to the student).

This obviously doesn't apply to all cases. Schools that just fail at storing passwords or other forms of human negligence are just stupid.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:50 am UTC

Steax wrote:
Spoiler:
hintss wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:I don't think it's likely I'll be pulling any kind of stunt in the near future, however frustrating it is that I and a couple of friends have more Computing knowledge than the entire IT department put together. :evil:

thats the perfect explanation of my friend. he and a friend coded a social network from scratch.


This is a slight tangent, but coding a social network (as per definition of 'allowing people to login and establish relationships and interact on a website') is easy. The hard part is making it succeed.

Seriously, a lot of people in school will claim to be able to make all sorts of cool things, but that's not really the point. Can make websites? Getting them public is the hard part. Can make web apps? Making them actually used by people isn't easy. Can make cool desktop apps? Finding how to make them usable and defeat the actual competition (i.e. stuff existing already) is a tough nut to crack. Can hack people's computers with l33t skills? Making actual profit and getting away with it isn't exactly obvious.

/a slight rant because people nowadays seem to boast so quickly about their 'abilities' with computers, and feeling that able = successful.

I sometimes figure that some schools undermine computer security for this very reason. Students might be able to get through and wreck relative havoc, but it's rare that they actually do anything dangerous. Of course, I'm not justifying schools on this, since they can't really tell apart 'dangerous' stuff from 'playful-but-not-actually-dangerous' stuff (and it's hard to tell anyway!), so they hope their students will learn to be a bit human and not toy with stuff they know they shouldn't (or they retaliate in a way that is definitely dangerous to the student).

This obviously doesn't apply to all cases. Schools that just fail at storing passwords or other forms of human negligence are just stupid.

he has an app up on the iPhone app store with a few tens of thousands of downloads, he got a dev job at one of the many companies that offer custom iPhone apps, made to order, and the social network got a few hundred reguler users on the first few days. one of the times when having 1000+ facebook friends helps :P

also, checking right now, 451 users at a few weeks.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby six6six6six6 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:20 pm UTC

My school doesn't just fail at Computer Security, but Computers in general.

They let us run .BAT files, I once created a rabbit virus and left on the desktop of a Library computer, I saved it as 'DO NOT OPEN', to see if anyone would actually run it. The next day, someone comes into the library and runs it. I don't think I've seen that computer again.

...We can still run .BATs


Also, this year, they're teaching us ICT with Key-bytes 98. Yes, 98.
It once asked us: 'Okay, you know how to click, but do you know how to DOUBLE-CLICK?'
It doesn't expand to the resolution of the screen, so we're left to work in the top-left corner of the screen.
It doesn't remember our progress, it gives us passwords to write down at the end of each lesson.
It was created a time when anti-piracy measures apparently consisted wholly of guilt-tripping students, asking them to check if it displayed the name of THEIR school.

The ICT department is an absolute joke.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Dason » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:11 pm UTC

six6six6six6 wrote:They let us run .BAT files, I once created a rabbit virus and left on the desktop of a Library computer, I saved it as 'DO NOT OPEN', to see if anyone would actually run it. The next day, someone comes into the library and runs it. I don't think I've seen that computer again.
...
The ICT department is an absolute joke.

Maybe it is a joke. That doesn't mean you should be a dick.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:20 am UTC

Dason wrote:
six6six6six6 wrote:They let us run .BAT files, I once created a rabbit virus and left on the desktop of a Library computer, I saved it as 'DO NOT OPEN', to see if anyone would actually run it. The next day, someone comes into the library and runs it. I don't think I've seen that computer again.
...
The ICT department is an absolute joke.

Maybe it is a joke. That doesn't mean you should be a dick.

Not his fault. He saved it as "DO NOT OPEN.bat", therefore he did his duty to warn others of the danger of the file
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Alx_xlA » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:57 am UTC

Why is it that these sorts of threads bring out all the people who take pride in being an ass? That particular type of black-hat who preys on inexperienced computer users and takes advantage of their trust?
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby phider2 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:42 am UTC

Alx_xlA wrote:Why is it that these sorts of threads bring out all the people who take pride in being an ass? That particular type of black-hat who preys on inexperienced computer users and takes advantage of their trust?

Because that particular type of person also likes to brag about how much better they are than those inexperienced users :/

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:57 pm UTC

that reminds me, my friend, Hans (jelloking357 on the fora) is planning to start the BHG army. the ad in his sig will be funny.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Dopefish » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:16 pm UTC

hintss wrote:the ad in his sig will be funny.


For appropriate definitions of funny.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Thank God I'm an Atheist » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:33 pm UTC

nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:11 am UTC

Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.

get a batch file, make it into an exe and it should work.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby nehpest » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:07 am UTC

hintss wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.

get a batch file, make it into an exe and it should work.


You're kidding, right? I honestly can't tell.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:48 am UTC

nehpest wrote:
hintss wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.

get a batch file, make it into an exe and it should work.


You're kidding, right? I honestly can't tell.

?

or you could make something in C++, and have it filled with system() commands.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby nehpest » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:24 am UTC

hintss wrote:
nehpest wrote:
hintss wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.

get a batch file, make it into an exe and it should work.


You're kidding, right? I honestly can't tell.

?

or you could make something in C++, and have it filled with system() commands.


I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that a computer on which the command line is disabled (I'm assuming a Windows-based system) will have the facilities available for creating an .exe file (a compiler, linker, etc). Let's add the fact that converting a batch file (which is a list of DOS commands) to .exe format is non-trivial without those facilities. Surely you don't mean for them to write a .bat file, and then just rename it foo.exe?

If we're assuming TGIAA has access to a compiler, then sure, writing a program full of system() calls might be an option.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby keeperofdakeys » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:05 am UTC

Knowledge, for knowledge's sake, command.com seemed to work when cmd.exe didn't on some computers I used to use.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:15 pm UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:
Dason wrote:
six6six6six6 wrote:They let us run .BAT files, I once created a rabbit virus and left on the desktop of a Library computer, I saved it as 'DO NOT OPEN', to see if anyone would actually run it. The next day, someone comes into the library and runs it. I don't think I've seen that computer again.
...
The ICT department is an absolute joke.

Maybe it is a joke. That doesn't mean you should be a dick.

Not his fault. He saved it as "DO NOT OPEN.bat", therefore he did his duty to warn others of the danger of the file

Don't be a spanner. They created a virus and installed it on a library computer and therefore had the most agency in making the computer unusable. The 'Do Not Open' filename does not absolve blame, because it does not explain why it shouldn't be opened and it is common enough for people to set up harmless pranks with 'do not touch' that one could reasonably expect the result would be benign (or humorous to anyone who isn't an immature cockhead).
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Thank God I'm an Atheist » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:56 pm UTC

Spoiler:
nehpest wrote:
hintss wrote:
nehpest wrote:
hintss wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.

get a batch file, make it into an exe and it should work.


You're kidding, right? I honestly can't tell.

?

or you could make something in C++, and have it filled with system() commands.


I think it's extraordinarily unlikely that a computer on which the command line is disabled (I'm assuming a Windows-based system) will have the facilities available for creating an .exe file (a compiler, linker, etc). Let's add the fact that converting a batch file (which is a list of DOS commands) to .exe format is non-trivial without those facilities. Surely you don't mean for them to write a .bat file, and then just rename it foo.exe?

If we're assuming TGIAA has access to a compiler, then sure, writing a program full of system() calls might be an option.


I feel included thanks to that acronym :D

You're quite right in that my toolbox is somewhat limited when working on these computers, therefore I cannot execute (hahahahaha! geddit geddit geddit?! :P :P :P ) many of the suggestions here. On a related note I decided to poke around and have found this portable command prompt. Going to try it asap on the network in question and I'll get back to you here at HQ. :wink:
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby SWGlassPit » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:05 pm UTC

Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom tunafish

Anybody know how to get command line working even if when you manage to open it is says, "Administrator has disabled this feature." or something to that effect? Whenever you start typing it just closes the command prompt.



May I ask what legitimate need you would have for a command prompt? As someone who does some sysadmin work for my research group's computer lab, I would just leave this: security policy is in place for a reason, and trying to circumvent access controls is a very serious offense. If you want to practice screwing around, do it on your own computer. What you are trying to do is the equivalent of climbing in some stranger's bedroom window because their front door is locked. If you keep this up, you'll be lucky to have computer access at all by the time you graduate.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Thank God I'm an Atheist » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:29 pm UTC

May I ask what legitimate need you would have for a command prompt? As someone who does some sysadmin work for my research group's computer lab, I would just leave this: security policy is in place for a reason, and trying to circumvent access controls is a very serious offense. If you want to practice screwing around, do it on your own computer. What you are trying to do is the equivalent of climbing in some stranger's bedroom window because their front door is locked. If you keep this up, you'll be lucky to have computer access at all by the time you graduate.


lol, ok. I just want to get into the command prompt to see if I can. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I never do anything malicious to the school system or any other; I have no reason to and would just feel guilty afterward. I realise that the security policy and system "is in place for a reason and all hell will rain down upon thee if you are an arse!" however I have perfectly innocent reasons to do so and our system admin is cool with it, he knows what I'm doing. He's just as curious as I am to see what can be done; though of course won't enable command prompt as I'm sure some people might use it to malicious ends.

Your comment about climbing into someone's bedroom window because the door was locked made me lol tho :wink:

Also, I really feel there is no need for such a post, however I'm sure you're intentions were good.

Finally I do of course thank you for telling me that security policies exist for reasons and that using the command prompt with permission is nothing short of cyber-trespassing.
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:59 am UTC

the portableapps one just pulls up a command prompt, and I once found a website that converts .bat files into .exes

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby phider2 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:You're quite right in that my toolbox is somewhat limited when working on these computers, therefore I cannot execute (hahahahaha! geddit geddit geddit?! :P :P :P ) many of the suggestions here. On a related note I decided to poke around and have found this portable command prompt. Going to try it asap on the network in question and I'll get back to you here at HQ. :wink:

At my school, the "administrator has disabled feature" or w/e stuff was usually really easy to get around. As noted before, command.exe might work if cmd.exe doesn't, and I found that most things that were blocked could be accessed just by making a single line batch file with the command in it, or a bat with "command.exe" as the only line to get a command prompt.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:44 am UTC

Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom methylmercury

FYFY.
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:
Dason wrote:
six6six6six6 wrote:They let us run .BAT files, I once created a rabbit virus and left on the desktop of a Library computer, I saved it as 'DO NOT OPEN', to see if anyone would actually run it. The next day, someone comes into the library and runs it. I don't think I've seen that computer again.
...
The ICT department is an absolute joke.

Maybe it is a joke. That doesn't mean you should be a dick.

Not his fault. He saved it as "DO NOT OPEN.bat", therefore he did his duty to warn others of the danger of the file

Don't be a spanner. They created a virus and installed it on a library computer and therefore had the most agency in making the computer unusable. The 'Do Not Open' filename does not absolve blame, because it does not explain why it shouldn't be opened and it is common enough for people to set up harmless pranks with 'do not touch' that one could reasonably expect the result would be benign (or humorous to anyone who isn't an immature cockhead).
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby callmenuge » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:07 pm UTC

gear-guy wrote:Our school fails at it, but for a completley different reason.

It is theoretically very secure, no two of the seperate systems (other than the login network and email network, but they run on the same server) share the same usernames and passwords, so it isnt even possible to get onto a teachers account and change the marks, the worst you can do is get on an IT teachers account and delete everyones stuff from the pupil server and mess with the remote control system. But what with there being 5 or 6 systems for them to remember usernames and passwords for, many teachers store their account details on flash drives, the same flash drives they keep on their keychain, which gets loaned out to pupils both for using the flash drive, and for access to rooms. See where this is going? well, you're wrong, our school is filled with idiots, so it never occurs to them to make a copy of the file with the passwords in it. the furthest most people have got with "hacking" of any kind is writing a shutdown .bat file and passing it off as a web filter bypass, and people fall for it. I'm seriously worried about this generation...


Haha, I remember *.bat files. That was what I used before I knew how to program.

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:28 am UTC

callmenuge wrote:
gear-guy wrote:Our school fails at it, but for a completley different reason.

It is theoretically very secure, no two of the seperate systems (other than the login network and email network, but they run on the same server) share the same usernames and passwords, so it isnt even possible to get onto a teachers account and change the marks, the worst you can do is get on an IT teachers account and delete everyones stuff from the pupil server and mess with the remote control system. But what with there being 5 or 6 systems for them to remember usernames and passwords for, many teachers store their account details on flash drives, the same flash drives they keep on their keychain, which gets loaned out to pupils both for using the flash drive, and for access to rooms. See where this is going? well, you're wrong, our school is filled with idiots, so it never occurs to them to make a copy of the file with the passwords in it. the furthest most people have got with "hacking" of any kind is writing a shutdown .bat file and passing it off as a web filter bypass, and people fall for it. I'm seriously worried about this generation...


Haha, I remember *.bat files. That was what I used before I knew how to program.

have you ever seen those huge batch files with if statements and all that? I have one that I think is on the order of 50 KB.

oh, and is it just with openSCAD, or is source code smaller than the compiled file?

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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Thank God I'm an Atheist » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:14 pm UTC

cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:
Thank God I'm an Atheist wrote:nom nom methylmercury

FYFY.


Pissed myself lol.
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satinyou
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:07 am UTC

Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby satinyou » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:15 am UTC

At my school if you open cmd.exe it comes up with the standard "blocked by admin" message and it refuses to run external .bats and .exes, but recently when we came back from a holiday we found that power shell had been installed on all the computers and worked just fine. Slight oversight on their part to disable one and install and eve more powerful variant.

VDOgamez
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 1:49 am UTC

Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby VDOgamez » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:39 pm UTC

My school has all of the common restrictions in place for students, but apparently ALSO made student accounts count as administrators. So if you bypass the restrictions, you get admin privileges. This includes getting the administrator password for the computer, which I can subsequently log in under.

This year, the library got a remote viewing program for its computers, to keep students from playing games. At first I would just close the process, but it seems I don't need to. The first question I get when people see me playing Dwarf Fortress is "Oh, are you programming something?"

A certain student at my school in the A+ certification class with me also has gotten a little rambunctious on the network. I was talking to him about something that Anonymous had done, and I mentioned the program Low Orbit Ion Cannon. He came back the next day and told me that he had been repeatedly crashing the school's router all day. >_< I think that I should be a little more careful about giving out information...

I really want to bring a bootable USB drive to school one day with Linux on it.

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Steax
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Steax » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:51 am UTC

It's quite a testament to how bad your school fails at security if a single LOIC user can take it down. I didn't even know that was possible.
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hintss
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Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby hintss » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:24 am UTC

VDOgamez wrote:...

I really want to bring a bootable USB drive to school one day with Linux on it.

Done (with DSL, a mandriva remix, and backtrack). also a live CD, a netbook, and a VM (running on a school computer). That reminds me of when I accidentally formatted one of the school computers under linux, then had to go through the hours long process of reimaging it. (seriously, the image is 2 years old, why can't you put it on a CD or something!)

It gets boring...

Heady
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:21 pm UTC

Re: My school fails at computer security...

Postby Heady » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:10 pm UTC

My district has a phobia of changing passwords. In 7th grade, I found out the district admin password only by nature of the fact that it was identical to mine. Needless to say, I didn't speak up. Now I find out that the school internet needs the same password to get through the proxy. Either IT doesn't care about the WIFI, or they're really careless and district is still using a two year old password.
Either way, amusing.


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