Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

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Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:31 am UTC

Superman falls down to earth, he is an alien that just happens to become a superhero because of our yellow sun

The fantastic four are subjected to the exact same radiation and all suddenly are changed in remarkable ways. But all different ways.

The hulk is made from intense gamma radiation. It works on banner but doesn't really work on anyone else.

I am not saying these are not fantastic characters. I am just saying they have weak starts. Anyone else think of other examples?

You guys want to tell me why I am wrong? Let it rip.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby felltir » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:34 am UTC

Spiderman, bitten by radioactive spider, becomes a bit like a spider... sort of.
Spoiler:
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:44 am UTC

Felltir wrote:Spiderman, bitten by radioactive spider, becomes a bit like a spider... sort of.


Agreed. That is completely ridiculous. Clearly he thought of the super hero, and just crammed in an origin.
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby felltir » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:46 am UTC

Green lantern, too. "Here have a super ring. You seem worthy."
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Dobblesworth » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:54 am UTC

A certain one from Watchmen, which I think counts here, namely John Osterman/Dr. Manahattan.
A lab scientist repairing a watch for his girlfriend conveniently leaves it behind in his lab coat back at the facility in a test chamber. When he returns for it, the chamber conveniently seals itself to start up the test process for 'intrinsic fields', which can't be aborted, powered down or have a safety feature to shut off on the basis of an employee being there. So yeh, he 'dies' and gets atomised, only to have all his constituent parts merge back together in a perfectly humanoid form. Oh and, er, he just so happens to be blue-skinned now, wielding the powers of a God and can see all events in time at the same moment.

I know Watchmen was intended to be an alternate superhero comic book tale, but still, slightly far-fetched in that respect.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:50 pm UTC

Ok, While the viable explanations for the Hulk and Spiderman were only made up later, I think they work really well so...

Spiderman was not just turned into Spiderman by Spider+Radiation=Presto-digi-magic!

There's a tradition of Animal totems, stretching back thousands of years, Humans trying to be like animals. Sometimes, a Totem will bestow a gift upon someone.

"The Radiation passing the powers into you?
Or the Spider giving you the powers before the Radiation killed it?"

I wish I knew where that arc is from, but I only read it once, in a library... I really enjoyed it...
It also goes some way to explaining why most of Spidey's villains are imitations of animals in some way...

And the Hulk? Genetic experiments carried out by his father. I don't know if that came from anwhere except Eric Bana movie of it, but damn... THAT made SOME kind of sense. The Gamma radiation activates the dormant mutation in his cells--->Hulk.

These still make no sense, but it's a less obvious kind of nonsense.

Also, Hank Pym?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:34 pm UTC

Now i have not read that much hulk to be fair, but my understanding is that there was a gamma bomb (?) that went off, affecting his cells and wham bam when ever he gets angry he gets green huge and his pants change to purple.

Yes the movie did make more sense, but movie != comic
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
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I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:39 pm UTC

I loved that Spider-Man totem series, I think Ezekiel is a fantastic character.

I kinda liked Kyle Rayner's origin as Green Lantern. "All the guardians are pretty much dead, only one has enough left to get a ring to someone. So he is transported to Earth, in the hopes of finding a new Hal Jordan, but is dying in an alleyway so Kyle Rayner gets it by virtue of just kind of being there. And he's a bit of a prick until he wises up to his responsibility.

The one I can't believe is X-Men. Random genetic mutations? Evolution? At least try to be close to scientific about it.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jessica » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:20 pm UTC

I prefer Ultimate origins for most of marvel's characters.
Super soldier serum. It does everything! If you want powers, just through some serum through some... uh... anything. and it'll give you powers or something.

yeah, the FF is a big one for me...
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:08 am UTC

Man I am glad I am not the only one that thinks like this...
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Malice » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:02 am UTC

The alternate-world FF origin in Warren Ellis's Planetary is much more convincing. It's not the trip into space that alters them;
Spoiler:
instead, they gain powers from beings in another dimension in exchange for promising to conquer and subsequently deliver Earth.
Image

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby JayDee » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:38 am UTC

Most of the time they don't bother me, the origins (or the original origins, at least) are left over from a time where they weren't the most unbelievable things there. It's sometimes jarring to remember the unchanged dodgy origin when the rest of the (comic) world has moved alot closer to realistic.

I guess it can be handy in some ways. People have mentioned the revisits to the origins, with the Spiderman totem thing and the Hulk (and it looks like X-Men: Legacy is playing around with Professor X's origins.) Those can be good, I'm loving Spiderman - With Great Power (which admittedly is all about the dealing with newfound powers rather than how he got them. But it's only possible to tell the story because it wasn't told before.)

Gojoe wrote:The fantastic four are subjected to the exact same radiation and all suddenly are changed in remarkable ways. But all different ways.
I actually like that kind of origin. I'm re-playing Freedom Force, which has the 'mysterious energy X' that gives people exposed to it relevant powers. It works really well, albeit in a decidedly Silver Age setting.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:28 am UTC

JayDee wrote: Gojoe wrote:The fantastic four are subjected to the exact same radiation and all suddenly are changed in remarkable ways. But all different ways.

I actually like that kind of origin. I'm re-playing Freedom Force, which has the 'mysterious energy X' that gives people exposed to it relevant powers. It works really well, albeit in a decidedly Silver Age setting.


I don't know. If they were say all exposed to it during different settings. Like say richard was stretching out to grab something and etc. But (as far as i remember) they were not. They all just got different powers with the only difference being their personalities...
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:01 am UTC

Once again, originally, the FF's powers were pretty random and ilogical.
But then you have stuff like Super-Skrull (Apparently there's more than one of these, according to Runaways. One wonders why they don't just make 4... somehow. THEN send them after the FF)
Proof that Cosmic Radiation is not just a random event, it has consistent results.
There's something more to Cosmic radiation in the Marvel universe. We just don't know what it is yet...

Oh, btw, I couldn't resist clicking the Planetary Spoiler... I'm an asshole to myself...
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Malice » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:43 am UTC

Maseiken wrote:Once again, originally, the FF's powers were pretty random and ilogical.
But then you have stuff like Super-Skrull (Apparently there's more than one of these, according to Runaways. One wonders why they don't just make 4... somehow. THEN send them after the FF)
Proof that Cosmic Radiation is not just a random event, it has consistent results.
There's something more to Cosmic radiation in the Marvel universe. We just don't know what it is yet...

Oh, btw, I couldn't resist clicking the Planetary Spoiler... I'm an asshole to myself...


Oh, that's nothing. The real spoiler for Planetary is that the Fourth Man is
Spoiler:
you clicked on this, didn't you.
Image

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:44 am UTC

Malice wrote:
Spoiler:
you clicked on this, didn't you.

Spoiler:
yes.yes i did
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:59 pm UTC

Gojoe wrote:The hulk is made from intense gamma radiation. It works on banner but doesn't really work on anyone else.

Leader and Doc Samson were all hit by gamma radiation to gain their powers, She-Hulk got them via a blood transfusion from Banner, so that one's arguable to being second-generation Gamma exposure.... so, there's that.


Captain America is the first recipient of the Super Soldier Serum.. after that, they start testing on animals...wait, what?


...did Grant Morrison write the Spider Man Totem Series? Ha ha! Animal Man Joke!
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:58 pm UTC

Malice wrote:
Maseiken wrote:Once again, originally, the FF's powers were pretty random and ilogical.
But then you have stuff like Super-Skrull (Apparently there's more than one of these, according to Runaways. One wonders why they don't just make 4... somehow. THEN send them after the FF)
Proof that Cosmic Radiation is not just a random event, it has consistent results.
There's something more to Cosmic radiation in the Marvel universe. We just don't know what it is yet...

Oh, btw, I couldn't resist clicking the Planetary Spoiler... I'm an asshole to myself...


Oh, that's nothing. The real spoiler for Planetary is that the Fourth Man is
Spoiler:
you clicked on this, didn't you.

Not only did I click on it, I read it again when I quoted you, and I actually know who the Fourth man is, from reading the wikipedia article.
I hate myself.

Also, I hate She-Hulk. Just in general, but I hate her Origin especially. It;s even less sensical than usual.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Oort » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:20 am UTC

Gojoe wrote:The hulk is made from intense gamma radiation. It works on banner but doesn't really work on anyone else.


It works on a lot of people. The Leader, Abomination, She-Hulk, Red Hulk, Flux, Madman...

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:01 am UTC

hmmm. i guess i stand corrected then
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby ishikiri » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:02 pm UTC

From these comments I can only conclude one thing:

Stan Lee can't do origins.

I quite like what they did with Wolverine - waiting about 20 years before they showed how he came to be.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:55 am UTC

ishikiri wrote:From these comments I can only conclude one thing:

Stan Lee can't do origins.

I quite like what they did with Wolverine - waiting about 20 years before they showed how he came to be.


I loved wolverine's beginning! Prob one of my favorites... what about on the DC side of things... anything you hate over there (start wise)
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:34 am UTC

Wonder-Woman, it seems kind of arbitrary (Her Origin, not my hatred), but maybe I don't know enough about her.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby protocoach » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:56 pm UTC

I don't know if anyone else reads The Boys, but Ennis uses a device similar to the Freedom Force "Mysterious Energy": Compound V, just another drug that grants the user superpowers that have general things in common (bigger, faster, stronger) and then some differentiation in terms of specifics.

I don't really have problems with any superhero's origins. If you're looking for realism in comics, you're looking in the wrong place. Go find a security camera. Look for allegory, or art, or social commentary, but realism is always going to be lacking. Thank God. Spider Jerusalem and Jesse Custer couldn't exist in a realistic world.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:10 am UTC

I know that they are not realistic. I am not looking for realism. I just think that some of these origins are a bit.... forced...
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:43 pm UTC

We're not looking for realism, we're just laughing at how silly some of the origins are when placed into the real world.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:40 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:We're not looking for realism, we're just laughing at how silly some of the origins are when placed into the real world.


yes, that
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:49 pm UTC

As much of an X-Men fanboy as I've always been, the whole "one gene gives people powers and also it is a different power in each person almost universally" thing has always annoyed me.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:50 pm UTC

Indeed, it seems similar to the fantastic four...
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:56 pm UTC

Eh, at least with the FF you can explain it away with them not getting the exact same bit of ray at the exact same time (Ultimate FF completely changed it, by the way). Mutants have always been explained as having a single "x-gene" that makes one person shoot lasers out of their eyes, one control the weather, and one have three faces.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jessica » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:08 pm UTC

Mutants, in my mind, wasn't just one specific gene which was the same across every mutant. It's not like their 21st chromosome was gaaggtcca or something. It was "They were slightly different, genetically. A mutation. Random, but all causing 'super powers'".
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:15 pm UTC

The latest issue of Astonishing X-Men explicitly states that it is one specific gene, and even goes so far as to specify the exact gene. Prior to that, yeah, maybe it wasn't any specific gene, but it is now.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:10 pm UTC

Wait... Is this thread about the credibility of superpowers?

I'm sorry, but this is stupid.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

Read my post, just a small space above yours, where I said that this thread is more for laughing at placing superhero origins into real life, and laughing at the ridiculousness of them.

News just in, not everything to be taken seriously.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:18 pm UTC

I see. Then what about Rogue, with her flaring hormones, and raging teen angst, and ooo, a sexy boy, and oh noes, he's in a coma.

Jesse wrote:News just in, not everything to be taken seriously.


I counter with "so says the thread criticizing the realism of comic books", but as long as its all seen as parody, i retract my previous statement.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:29 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:We're not looking for realism, we're just laughing at how silly some of the origins are when placed into the real world.


I quoted myself now, just to seem arty.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Narsil » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:01 am UTC

Jesse wrote:The one I can't believe is X-Men. Random genetic mutations? Evolution? At least try to be close to scientific about it.

I would find the pill easier to swallow if only a few people got super powers, but most people with the mutation just got some horrible deformation, like a third leg or no eyebrows. You know, boring shit that actually happens when you have a mutation.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:08 am UTC

Thats what I loved about astonishing x-men, seeing all those pointless mutations kids got...

But ever read Childhoods End? Sometimes it results in UNBELIEVABLE COSMIC POWER (ittttty bitty living space)
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:44 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:UNBELIEVABLE COSMIC POWER (ittttty bitty living space)


I do love me some Aladdin quotes :D
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:31 am UTC

Narsil wrote:
Jesse wrote:The one I can't believe is X-Men. Random genetic mutations? Evolution? At least try to be close to scientific about it.

I would find the pill easier to swallow if only a few people got super powers, but most people with the mutation just got some horrible deformation, like a third leg or no eyebrows. You know, boring shit that actually happens when you have a mutation.

Beak
EDIT:I guess I should say more than that...
Beak is one of my favorite characters, for precisely this reason, his Mutation is pretty sucky when you think about it, being a Giant chicken is not cool, but it has some fringe benefits, and he takes advantage of those as best he can, and just tries to get by.

Of course, he finds it very difficult to break even... He's really the Marvel Universe's Buttmonkey.
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