Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

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Gojoe
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:12 am UTC

Yah... beak... I never liked him... Just felt sorry for him
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:28 pm UTC

I didn't like him either, but there was one arc that showed him in the future, and he looked pretty intense and had gotten his shit together as best someone in his situation could.

http://en.marveldatabase.com/Image:Tito_bohusk.jpg

Nevermind, Tito was beaks descendant... Beak is always lame. Tito was pretty solid
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:01 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Thats what I loved about astonishing x-men, seeing all those pointless mutations kids got...

That had all already been established in New X-Men. That was why I used the example of a kid whose "power" was having three faces.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:17 pm UTC

One of the most touching x-men stories I read was the one where the kid wakes up and finds his family melted, and walks to school and everyone at school is melted... His mutation was that he secretes acids from his pores and melts people.

Spoiler:
The kid hides in a cave, and wolverine comes to him. They have a conversation where the kid gripes, wolverine offers him a beer, and says "i'm not here to invite you to the x-men. I'm sorry, I really am" and the kid wipes his eyes, says he understands, and the next scene is wolverine leaving the cave and blinking in the sunlight, a dour(er) and unhapp(ier)y look on his face. Touching and sobering.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:40 pm UTC

Hey! I like Beak... poor guy...
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:44 pm UTC

I guess beak is more of a believable char because of how mutated he is...
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
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Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

Honestly, that's the sort of thing that exemplifies why I didn't like the end result of House of M. People were complaining that there were too many X-Men (and I heard this from Avengers fans), but the vast majority of mutants were never seen, and there's still just as many X-Men as there was before. Nothing's really changed other than removing one vector of storytelling for the current WE'RE THE LAST ON EARTH SO LET'S KILL ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KILL US thing they're running. Not that it's bad; I just don't see what it ultimately changed.

Although I do like Layla Miller.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby drghost » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:07 am UTC

On Spider-Man:
Have you guys read that What If issue, "Arachnamorphosis"?

It's Volume 2, Issue 88, for anyone that's interested.

In this story, Peter Parker got bitten, but instead of getting super powers, he got messed up.
He turns into a spider monster sometimes, and he eats meat like an animal.
He's looking/trying to come up with a cure, but it seems like his time is running out.

Also, he has a son who is starting to get spider features.
Peter want to send him to Xavier's school, so that at least he can get help.

Anyway,
Spoiler:
A mob kills spider monster peter and his son sees this as peter tells him to run away.
the last panel is peter's son at the front door of xavier's school.
We have tags for that.

There's a lot more to it, but that's the gist of it.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:34 am UTC

So he was like a were-spider.... that is more believable to me
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

Feeble accompanying guitar.

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Endless Mike
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:37 pm UTC

Spider-Man gets killed in like 50% of What If? comics.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Gojoe » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:49 pm UTC

50% of superheros in whatif comics die
michaelandjimi wrote:Oh Mr Gojoe
I won't make fun of your mojo.
Though in this fora I serenade you
I really only do it to aid you.
*Various positive comments on your masculinity
That continue on into infinity*

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Endless Mike
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:47 pm UTC

Yeah, but Spider-Man is almost always one of them. A comic blog I read did a countdown of the top 50 or 100 issues of What If? and kept a running count of Peter Parker deaths.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Even ones that have nothing to do with Peter.
"What if... The Hulk was a HAPPY Hulk?"
"Then Spiderman would die."
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby drghost » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:33 am UTC

sorry about the lack of spoiler tags.
i'll be more careful.

and yeah, "were-spider" would be accurate.

so, anyone else here read it?

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby MShades » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:22 am UTC

I can suspend my disbelief pretty high for super-hero origins, but Firestorm has always bugged me.

I have no problem believing that two men can, at will and at a distance, become one super-hero who can fly, can rearrange the molecular structure of objects, shoots bolts of energy from his hands, has fire for hair and can make puffy sleeves look cool.

I have a serious problem believing that a roll of dynamite placed next to a nuclear reactor can trigger a nuclear explosion in which said super-hero can be created.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby CogDissident » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:45 pm UTC

Impossible creatures:
The main protagonist got his by tesla's "super weapon" that also caused the tsungasa event. This killed everyone (including his mother) in the area, but gave him super powers instead. Super powers like "when that dog bit me, the dog was sick for a week" and "i can control mutated creatures with my mind".

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby ishikiri » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:45 pm UTC

Does anyone know of a decent super-hero beggining?

The only one I know of is The Punisher. Although I don't think he counts because he's not really a superhero per se; just a big dude with guns and a decent tollerance to pain.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:28 pm UTC

ishikiri wrote:Does anyone know of a decent super-hero beggining?

The only one I know of is The Punisher. Although I don't think he counts because he's not really a superhero per se; just a big dude with guns and a decent tollerance to pain.

Captain America. He was basically given super-steroids.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jessica » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:15 pm UTC

Ultroids(tm)
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby ishikiri » Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:06 pm UTC

Oh yeah I should have realised that.

I picked up a crappy comic last month where they gave US troops those after a spate of terrorist attacks and losing wars etc.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jackpot » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:46 am UTC

Spawn's origin works, just not everything else.

"So you killed the devil"

"YES"

"And you now rule hell"

"YES"

"And now you killed god?"

"YES"

"And your powers are limited?"

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby AngrySquirrel » Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:10 am UTC

Elongated Man. Not only does he have one of the most ridiculous names in the history of superheroes, but he gets his power from...superconcentrated Soda?
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:15 pm UTC

I always liked how Cloak and Dagger got their powers from drugs...

That's it, I don't actually have a complaint...
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby telkanuru » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:58 am UTC

I didn't like how Batman got his super powers.

Wait.

Nevermind.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby ishikiri » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:50 pm UTC

telkanuru wrote:I didn't like how Batman got his super powers.

Wait.

Nevermind.

The ones without super-powers are always the best IMO.
clintonius wrote:The "thwak thwak thwak" in this movie makes me think they cranked up a powerpoint slideshow of angry pictures set to the soundtrack of a furious masturbator.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby smw543 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:50 am UTC

In terms of realism/making sense, were-spider and other characters that rapidly change from one form to another make less sense. Biologically speaking, it's a bit too far fetched to say that Bruce Banner can all-of-a-sudden go from a normal sized man to a massive green beast. (But, in the case of Arachnamorphosis, among others, stretching, or even outright ignoring science is OK if it has a "literary" purpose. This is why were-whatevers are acceptable.)

As for the X-men, some of the more ridiculous ones were given non-genetic origins for their powers, such as some versions of Storm. (I agree that the premise of a single X-gene is ridiculous.)

Concerning Doctor Manhattan; :P . Him being inside the machine isn't that big of a coincidence; he never said it was the only time he ever went inside while not doing specific experiments, and even if it was, it wouldn't be an unbelievable coincidence. It's a simple wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time deal; nothing wrong with that. And not being able to interrupt the experiment isn't that odd; many experiments done nowadays can't be interrupted either, as doing so can cause things to go boom. And he doesn't just happen to come back together, his consciousness rebuilds his body. Granted, this requires one to accept some sort of essence or mind that can exist seperately from the human body, but it makes perfect sense once you do. Further, he's only able to recreate himself in such a Godlike form because he already had such an incredible knowledge of physics. If, for example, your typical guy with just a B.S. in physics were in his place, he might be able to put himself back together rather sloppily, while an uneducated person would probably never escape oblivion.

On a related note, I think that a bad origin is not one that you don't like the premises of, but rather one in which the premises don't lead to the conclusion. To sort of quote Oscar Wilde, "There is no such thing as a [good] or a [bad] [comic] book. [Comic] books are well written, or badly written. That is all." If the origin makes sense given all the rules presented, it is good. This is why the original X-men concept is bad; it pretends to operate within the field of genetics, but it violates the fundamental rule of what a single gene can do. If it said that it was linked to a group of genes (and maybe also some element of environmental influence) then it could work. See: sound arguments vs. valid arguments.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby el_loco_avs » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:52 pm UTC

Maseiken wrote:Beak
EDIT:I guess I should say more than that...
Beak is one of my favorite characters, for precisely this reason, his Mutation is pretty sucky when you think about it, being a Giant chicken is not cool, but it has some fringe benefits, and he takes advantage of those as best he can, and just tries to get by.

Of course, he finds it very difficult to break even... He's really the Marvel Universe's Buttmonkey.



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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Luthen » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:12 am UTC

Dobblesworth wrote:A certain one from Watchmen, which I think counts here, namely John Osterman/Dr. Manahattan.
I know there's nothing to support it, but I like to think Dr. Manhattan used his powers to set up his own origin. Because, an experiment like that would have to have been scheduled, and you'd expect him to know when it was going to happen.

smw543 wrote:This is why the original X-men concept is bad; it pretends to operate within the field of genetics, but it violates the fundamental rule of what a single gene can do. If it said that it was linked to a group of genes (and maybe also some element of environmental influence) then it could work. See: sound arguments vs. valid arguments.
Yeah, I've always told myself that it's some crazy form of epistasis. And that the flavour of powers is dependent on other genes. But I'd still expect more similarities between relations (are Nightcrawler and Rogue still half-siblings?).
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:13 pm UTC

Luthen wrote:Yeah, I've always told myself that it's some crazy form of epistasis. And that the flavour of powers is dependent on other genes. But I'd still expect more similarities between relations (are Nightcrawler and Rogue still half-siblings?).

They weren't ever half-siblings that I can recall. Rogue was adopted by Mystique, but isn't her biological daughter.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Luthen » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:19 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:
Luthen wrote:Yeah, I've always told myself that it's some crazy form of epistasis. And that the flavour of powers is dependent on other genes. But I'd still expect more similarities between relations (are Nightcrawler and Rogue still half-siblings?).
They weren't ever half-siblings that I can recall. Rogue was adopted by Mystique, but isn't her biological daughter.
See, I wasn't sure at all. Most of my knowledge comes from some vague form for information osmosis.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:38 am UTC

The Scarlett Witch (reality changin' powahz!) and Quicksilver (Runs really really fast! ZZzzzzoooooooooooooommmmmmm!!!!)

Brother and Sister.

.... Que?

I mean, I guess running really really ridiculously fast is a reality-changing superpower... maybe he doesn't actually move, just moves the world around him...
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:01 pm UTC

It's not like either make any sense to start with when you consider that their father controls magnetism.

Not that mutant genetics has ever been consistent regarding parents, anyway.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:05 pm UTC

Oh man, I'd completely forgotten that part.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:57 am UTC

I like how Magneto can control magnetism, but not electricity.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Luthen » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:10 am UTC

Also his magnetism is special, "not magnetic? Its a metal! I can move it!" And the TVTropes hive mind tells me he sometimes can do forcefields.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Jesse » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:56 am UTC

Maybe he has the reality bending powers of Scarlet Witch, but some mental block is stopping him from useing it in its entirety.

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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:12 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:Maybe he has the reality bending powers of Scarlet Witch, but some mental block is stopping him from useing it in its entirety.

Maybe, but then someone could say all mutants have the same power, but they use it in different ways.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Luthen » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:13 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
Jesse wrote:Maybe he has the reality bending powers of Scarlet Witch, but some mental block is stopping him from useing it in its entirety.
Maybe, but then someone could say all mutants have the same power, but they use it in different ways.
You could extend it that all non-mutants merely have complete mental blocks as well.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Maseiken » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:38 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:Maybe he has the reality bending powers of Scarlet Witch, but some mental block is stopping him from useing it in its entirety.

Actually I once came up with a theory about this.

Magneto and his family represent Physical laws at their most basic level.

Magneto controls magnetism, sometimes when he's really powerful that extends to electro-magnetic fields, and electro-magnetism is one of the basic forces in the Universe.

Wanda's powers, as interpreted fairy often, represent a maximised influence on universal uncertainty. She can radically increase or decrease the probability of various events happening, essentialy, she's having an effect on materials at their most basic levels. i.e. She can control whether Scroedinger's cat lives or dies, because she has control over effects that are ordinarily uncertain, and, to a larger extent, their effects in Macro-space.

Pietro probably represents energy or something.
I dunno, it's not a great theory, and how Wanda's powers of altered reality work in this context (a'la House of M) I can't explain (Unless she can use them retroactively). But it's A theory.
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Re: Superhero beginnings you just can not believe.

Postby Endless Mike » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:21 pm UTC

Luthen wrote:Also his magnetism is special, "not magnetic? Its a metal! I can move it!" And the TVTropes hive mind tells me he sometimes can do forcefields.

Honestly, I think "magnetism" is just a simple way of saying "he controls metal." That said, he's been shown to do all sorts of weird stuff, including somecontrol of the E-M spectrum. Basically, his powers are whatever the current writer thinks they are.


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