Gunnerkrigg Court

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:17 am UTC

I am really enjoying this mode of storytelling. It's such a departure from the highly emotional way the rest of this story arc has been presented, suddenly we're separated from everything by a narrator, by cartoonish art, by the past tense...

Very interesting. Not permanently, but a nice change of pace.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:33 pm UTC

I agree. I love how this works solely because we know Coyote so well and we've heard some of his stories before - out of context, this wouldn't be a very legible chapter, but knowing his type of storytelling, the art that involves it, the way Coyote morphs all the time, and of course the current characters' situation, gives this supposedly children's-book story an added depth and understanding.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby ameretrifle » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:33 am UTC

I'm wondering if Coyote means more than is obvious by "broken man". Obviously, he's heartbroken; obviously, he fails utterly at social interaction and lacks even the common sense necessary to ask anyone for advice on making up the lack ("Gee, I haven't seen my daughter since before my wife died. Now I'm going to be her teacher, too. Ooh, and I'd better tell her she's being demoted, too, I'm sure that will be better coming from me. Maybe I should handle this carefully? Naaaah, let's just cut her down to size because cheating is bad and wrong and so is makeup. What could possibly go wrong??"); but he's always been terrible at people. Is that just his personality, or a symptom of something deeper wrong? (Partly I'm just trying to understand Surma's taste in men. Picking him would make sense if there was some tactical trait or affinity she was trying to introduce into the bloodline. But if it were at all spiritual, you'd think Coyote would have remarked on it. Either he just did, or it's something non-spiritual. Much more likely Surma's taste will just be an eternal mystery to me.)

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:32 pm UTC

He's physically changed as well, and it's possible his experienced created some sort of schism within him too. But is Annie broken for having the cut on her face in the spirit world? I think using the word broken is kind of assholish, and depending on the intended meaning, quite possibly offensive towards disabled people. Then again, Coyote is an asshole so...
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:57 pm UTC

I've just started reading this (from the beginning, comic by comic, like a book - my preferred way of consuming webcomics). I have to say that taking place names from a Child Ballad and using Kate Rusby as the inspiration for Annie's accent (at least according to the wiki) has very much endeared me to this comic already. I think I shall enjoy this.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:33 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I've just started reading this (from the beginning, comic by comic, like a book - my preferred way of consuming webcomics). I have to say that taking place names from a Child Ballad and using Kate Rusby as the inspiration for Annie's accent (at least according to the wiki) has very much endeared me to this comic already. I think I shall enjoy this.

I'm jealous that you get to experience it for the first time :)
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:27 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I'm jealous that you get to experience it for the first time

:)

And now chapter 3 is called Raynardine! - another favourite ballad of mine. Tom Siddell clearly shares my fascination with British and Celtic mythology and traditional music. This is fun!

ETA: And a dragon hunter named Eglamore (Child ballad #18) Squee! Finally, a pop culture thing where I get the references (my knowledge of popular music, film, TV and sports is pretty minimal, so most references in most things fly right over my head, but I do know my folk ballads).

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby ameretrifle » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:37 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:He's physically changed as well, and it's possible his experienced created some sort of schism within him too. But is Annie broken for having the cut on her face in the spirit world? I think using the word broken is kind of assholish, and depending on the intended meaning, quite possibly offensive towards disabled people. Then again, Coyote is an asshole so...

I also hate that word for referring to people. That guy may or may not be an exception. I realized at the start of the chapter that if anything in the world could make me feel sorry for the guy, it was probably going to be... erm... that entity.

Ha, now that we've got someone here reading from the beginning I feel wrong not using spoiler tags, but the cows are kind of well out of the barn on that one. Not sure how to proceed. But I hadn't known about those ballads, thanks for pointing it out, Quercus. Glad to have you in the thread. Anyway, as far as cruelty goes... oh hell, I'll spoil it.
Spoiler:
Having a creature who never lies telling you that absolutely no one would be particularly sad at your death but your daughter is pretty harsh. Probably true, but if that doesn't hurt, there's even more wrong with him than we already know. You'd think that would inspire some efforts to amend a la Scrooge but I dunno about this guy. Also, yeah, I'd like to think that "broken" isn't referring to his possible non-neurotypicality, and I'm suspecting something else is wrong with him. And his reversal while drunk (I still suspect that was dosed with something...) was pretty damn complete. He seems to interact just fine when he's hammered, which doesn't seem like it should be enough if he's really outright not neurotypical, but I'm definitely not an expert and could be totally wrong on that. Babble babble dude has problems and it remains to be seen how many are of his own making. It's Gunnerkrigg Court so I'll probably be cringing at myself and my narrow expectations eventually. That's why I've really started admiring it; it keeps surprising me, and mostly just by making its characters people.

...And I keep completely forgetting he lost a hand and that's what you probably mean could be offensive if that's what Coyote meant. Whoops. Which shows why I don't think it's referring to that. Seems to me he's got so many more fundamental issues.

also the LASER cows are well out of the barn

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:42 pm UTC

Don't worry about using spoilers on my account, as long as you don't mind me interjecting with things unrelated to the current conversation every once in a while - I'm pretty good at skipping over spoiler-laden things in these sort of threads, even without actual spoiler tags (that does mean I only have a vague idea of what others are talking about, hence the unrelated interjections).

Edit: Jack Hyland's name also appears to be from a folk ballad, the first name has changed though, the song is called Matt Hyland (I guess it could be coincidence, but given how fond Tom Siddell seems to be of Kate Rusby's music, it seems pretty likely). I wonder if Kate knows about Gunnerkrigg Court - there's a pretty good chance I'll be at a folk festival where Kate's playing at some point (just attending - I don't play or anything) and I'll have to ask her if I get the chance (I'll go get a CD signed or something).

Oh, and thanks for the welcome ameretrifle, I'm glad to be here.

Edit 2: I went on a bit of an archive binge last night, and noticed another song match http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=937 references lyrics from another Kate Rusby song, Playing of Ball

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:02 am UTC

ameretrifle wrote:And his reversal while drunk (I still suspect that was dosed with something...) was pretty damn complete. He seems to interact just fine when he's hammered, which doesn't seem like it should be enough if he's really outright not neurotypical
I am not sure it's just the amount of booze that was a factor here - keep in mind he was with one of his best and oldest friends, and when he's with Annie he has all this emotional baggage and walls built up. Blaming her for Surma's death, feelings of guilt and inadequacy... his two audiences couldn't be any more different. I don't think it was just the booze.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:20 am UTC

I just wanted to mention that I'm all caught up, so spoiling stuff for me is now not even a theoretical concern (seriously, it was like a book I couldn't put down - I spent most of Saturday afternoon curled up with it).

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:35 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I just wanted to mention that I'm all caught up, so spoiling stuff for me is now not even a theoretical concern (seriously, it was like a book I couldn't put down - I spent most of Saturday afternoon curled up with it).

Woo!

So maybe as someone who's more recently read through it, you can remind me what Annie promised Coyote to do?
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:06 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:So maybe as someone who's more recently read through it, you can remind me what Annie promised Coyote to do?

It's really bugging me, but I can't - I've looked back through all the obvious places and I can't find anything that Annie specifically promised Coyote (except things she has already fulfilled - like taking the soul of the rabbit across the bridge to join Foley house, or not telling anyone in the forest about Coyote's tooth).

The closest I can come is accepting the role of forest medium - it would be a rather coyote-like thing to do to reframe that into a specific promise which benefits him, and a rather annie-like thing to do to work that out for herself and be able to mention it when Coyote asks. That's my theory.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:09 pm UTC

Thanks for asking, Z, that was bothering me too.
Proverbs 9:7-8 wrote:Anyone who rebukes a mocker will get an insult in return. Anyone who corrects the wicked will get hurt. So don't bother correcting mockers; they will only hate you.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:51 pm UTC

People seem to be confused about this on the Gunnerkrigg forums too. The crown symbol, though, has apparently been used before to symbolize fire elementals.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:12 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:People seem to be confused about this on the Gunnerkrigg forums too. The crown symbol, though, has apparently been used before to symbolize fire elementals.

I'm not sure how significant that is to the promise - it seems to be part of a stylised representation of her hair, and given that that represents Annie's "elemental side" one would expect it to be adorned with the fire elemental symbol.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby ameretrifle » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:39 am UTC

For some reason I was thinking the promise was dealing with Jeanne, but that was partly because of the crown symbol, I think. Why I associated that with her, I don't know. Anyway, Coyote didn't actually say who she promised, either, so it could be a lot of things.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:48 am UTC

ameretrifle wrote:Anyway, Coyote didn't actually say who she promised, either, so it could be a lot of things.

That is a very good point

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:35 am UTC

I think the "broken man" applies on many levels, to things we already know about him. I don't think a big reveal is coming about him.

I also think the fact that Coyote picks up on all of these shows how well he knows/reads people despite the way he projects a juvenile, cruel, self centered, fun loving, tricky persona.

  • Obviously there is the physical disability, but I think it is really the least of all the things Coyote calls "broken"
  • He is still broken up over losing Surma
  • His relationship with Annie (and his very ability to have a relationship with her) is completely dysfunctional (broken)
  • He is filled with regret and guilt (broken up inside) about the kind of father he is to Annie
  • He is conflicted (broken up) about Surma giving her fire spirit and thus life for Annie to have one
  • This one is more conjecture, but I think the way he treated Annie was the only way he knew to protect her from being expelled from the Court. That's another thing he is probably conflicted and broken in two about.

I'm sure there's more. I think "broken" is a very good descriptor for this man who has the best intentions and the WORST actions.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:11 am UTC

ameretrifle wrote:For some reason I was thinking the promise was dealing with Jeanne

Given who Annie is going to talk to in the latest page, I think you might be right.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:55 pm UTC

Most recent page spoilers (chapter 54 p 10)
Spoiler:
That was kind of a rude awakening. I remembered Coyote said he knocked over a building but I didn't really consider how much destruction is involved. I kind of get why people would be worried for Annie's safety.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:16 am UTC

(chapter 54 p11)
Spoiler:
Oh, the promise is taking the rabbit/boy back to see their friend. That's almost disappointingly mundane (although also kind of sweet).

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:46 am UTC

Today's comic is somehow unbearably sad to me. She changed everything about her to try to make someone happy that will never be happy with her; and in the process sacrificed the acceptance of the people who did love her the way she was. She has nothing left to show for the anguish her dad has put her through.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:58 am UTC

Moo wrote:Today's comic is somehow unbearably sad to me. She changed everything about her to try to make someone happy that will never be happy with her; and in the process sacrificed the acceptance of the people who did love her the way she was. She has nothing left to show for the anguish her dad has put her through.

Yes. I'm hoping there is some reconciliation with somebody within the next few comics, because :(

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:49 pm UTC

I don't think it will stay this way. Her school friends are still her friends, and Ysengrin will come around. I get the sense he's not disappointed in Annie, but he's sad and needs to deal with his own feelings. Perhaps his own failure to keep her safe.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:11 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:I get the sense he's not disappointed in Annie, but he's sad and needs to deal with his own feelings.

I got that impression too - doesn't make it less saddening for me though, if anything it makes it more so. That sequence between panels 4 and 5 - that looking for comfort and then the shock of not finding it. Well, lets just say that Tom Siddell has a gift of putting emotions into drawings.

In fact these last few chapters have all had some powerful emotional resonances with me. I've found them quite affecting.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:16 pm UTC

I agree completely. I would hope these are signs of healing, and not creating distance.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:43 pm UTC

She doesn't know that yet though, she is now dealing with all the questions his reaction would create. That tension between knowing someone is not ok with you and not knowing why or how to fix it, is excrutiating.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:46 pm UTC

Yeah. I suppose he might be just walking away a couple of meters and then stopping to talk, but I'm guessing by the path he's drawn on that he's going to keep walking.

Also Annie should make her hair out of fire.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby kiniget » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:24 am UTC

what the hell did Ysengrin just do to Annie's blinker stone?
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:31 pm UTC

kiniget wrote:what the hell did Ysengrin just do to Annie's blinker stone?

I trust he knows what he's doing, I'm not worried. I seem to recall the blinker stone described as a tool to focus Annie's powers, but maybe he's right and it's limiting her. Annie is often somewhat reluctant to try new things and open up to new ideas.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:10 pm UTC

I trust that Ysengrin knows what he's doing, in the sense that I think that it will be efficacious will help Annie in the long run, however I don't trust him to care about, or even notice, whether what he's doing is the easiest or least painful way to achieve that for Annie i.e. I think it will achieve something that needs to be achieved, but it may well also hurt Annie in the process.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:26 pm UTC

I'm not sure. I agree he probably has a different set of morals from Annie, but he has displayed empathy and understanding for her in the past.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Quercus » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:21 am UTC

So proud of Ysengrin right now. That sounds very strange of a comic character... but his response really exceeded my expectations. Zohar - you were right.

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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:00 pm UTC

Yes, <3 Ysengrin right now
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Zohar » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:18 pm UTC

He's a pretty cool guy when he's not a homicidal maniac on a murderous rampage.
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Yakk » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:00 pm UTC

Ah! Her fire is coming back.

Lower left panel, you can see some "dust" trickling towards her hair.

Mid right panel, the "fire" rays are centered not on her, but on her hair.

I wonder what it will look like?
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby kiniget » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:46 am UTC

yeah given today's page I can see what he's doing and why

this is gonna hurt, but it needs to happen
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby Moo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:07 am UTC

http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1580
Spoiler:
Ysengrin wrote:If he truly does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word
Ysengrin wrote:on your word
Ysengrin wrote:on your word
<3
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court

Postby PeteP » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:00 am UTC

The name, how didn't I expect something like that? So adorable.


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