Newbie New Year Mafia - D5

For your simulated organized crime needs.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:52 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:I'm not sure how scum being able to read your mind has anything to do with it. The potential reward for claiming VT (survival), as has been demonstrated by the fact that flicky was NOT lynched and isn't looking likely to be lynched at the moment, is greater than claiming PR. The fact that you won't acknowledge that scum might be willing to risk this, or potentially even made a mistake in their claim, is worrying.
I like to think that flicky was not lynched because I campaigned against it hard and made BoomFrog reconsider. Scum couldn't have known I would do that. The fact you don't see this is worrying.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:59 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
LaserGuy wrote:I'm not sure I follow exactly what you're referring to.
Really? I 'distanced' myself from bessie before you accused me of being her scum-buddy, making your whole argument fall apart.


:|
I'll give you an extra third of a townie point if it makes you feel better.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:31 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:Any update on this? Has this helped you identify scum? If so, who and why?


Sure, so basically the idea was that I wanted to see who was actually interested in sorting me. I wanted to see who was interested in asking me questions about my reads and figuring out if they were legitimate or not, who would just blindly scumread me without trying to figure it out, and who would ignore me entirely. I got very strong town vibes from BoomFrog for this post. Your interest in asking me about this and following up also looks townie. I liked cempers comments on it here. Hari Seldon wasn't interested in my reads specifically, but was interested in why I was doing what I was doing (e.g. here), which felt townie. bessie being completely uninterested in my behaviour was a red flag for me, and flicky focusing on the initial naked vote and nothing else also looked bad to me. Most other players I felt had nullish responses.

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BoomFrog
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:17 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
cemper93 wrote:You deliberately voted a player that you thought was a bad choice?
Yes. I would prefer not to say why.

I need this explained. Your behavior around the PW lynch was actually very suspicious in retrospect.
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BoomFrog
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:19 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:That last post made me 95% sure that I want to hear Madge's (and BoomFrog's) claim ASAP.

Mages post for reference.

I assume you mean that part made you very concerned about Madge. What was it that pinged you so?
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wam
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby wam » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:43 pm UTC

72 hour deadline from now.
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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:08 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:I need this explained. Your behavior around the PW lynch was actually very suspicious in retrospect.
Personal reason, nothing to do with the game. If it's really troubling you I'll give you a hint.

BoomFrog wrote:I assume you mean that part made you very concerned about Madge. What was it that pinged you so?
Reduced claim-space.

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BoomFrog
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:44 pm UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I need this explained. Your behavior around the PW lynch was actually very suspicious in retrospect.
Personal reason, nothing to do with the game. If it's really troubling you I'll give you a hint.

BoomFrog wrote:I assume you mean that part made you very concerned about Madge. What was it that pinged you so?
Reduced claim-space.

Alright. I think we're on the same page mostly.

Vote Cemper

@Cemper: Why was the thing where Sabrar counted time from the end if D1 instead of start of D2 a scum point? What does that have to do with night chat existing or not? I still don't get your train of thought.
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wam
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby wam » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:27 pm UTC

Current Votals:

bessie - 1 (LaserGuy)
Madge - 1 (jimbobmacdoodle)
Laserquy - 1 (Bessie)
Cemper - 1 (Boomfrog)

Not voting: , Hari Seldon, Madge, Sabrar, cemper93, flicky1991, somitomi

With 10 alive hammer requires 6 votes. Tied votals will result in no lynch.
Deadline 2 days 20 hours and 18 minutes.

Deadline

Note that posting and voting may continue after the deadline until a mod calls night (or there’s a hammer vote).
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LaserGuy
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:29 pm UTC

I think the six people not voting should probably put something down so we can get a better sense of where everyone is at.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:29 pm UTC

I will probably vote for cemper.

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flicky1991
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:17 pm UTC

[Wow, there is way too much to keep up with...]
any pronouns
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flicky1991
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:21 pm UTC

Madge might still be scummiest to me right now, but I really need to do at least a quick look at each player and their interactions with Whale.
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Hari Seldon
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Hari Seldon » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:18 pm UTC

Bessie wrote:You didn’t answer his question.
He did. He wasn't responding to Somi's opinion about PW's post, he was responding to Somi's reaction to Madge's claim.

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cemper93
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby cemper93 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:25 pm UTC

BF wrote:@Cemper: Why was the thing where Sabrar counted time from the end if D1 instead of start of D2 a scum point? What does that have to do with night chat existing or not? I still don't get your train of thought.
Because Sabrar has been chatting with his scumbuddy for the entire time. Therefore, to him, the game was still happening during the night and posting was going on. There is no discontinuity in the game for scum like there is for town. It is for this reason that from Sabrar's subjective experience, I was away from the game for pretty long, namely for 18 hours plus the duration of the night, whereas from a town POV, I hadn't even been gone for a day.

Ugh, I find it hard to phrase this clearly. What I'm saying is that if Sabrar was town, he wouldn't miss a player 18 hours into a day, because the day just started. Scum, on the other hand, doesn't experience time in the same way, because the game is one continuous action to them and nightfall and daystart don't affect their active participation in the game in the same way: it is for this reason that they're more likely to think "wow, cemper hasn't posted in days" even when the reason for my not posting for days is simply that I wasn't allowed to. Is this comprehensible now? Anyway,

Vote: Sabrar

For this and other, previously explained reasons.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:32 pm UTC

Admittedly this would makes sense. What really happened was that everyone else was here for the start of the day and there was plenty of discussion so it felt to me like you were away for a longer time.

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BoomFrog
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:36 pm UTC

cemper93 wrote:Ugh, I find it hard to phrase this clearly. What I'm saying is that if Sabrar was town, he wouldn't miss a player 18 hours into a day, because the day just started.

I get what you are saying, but I think the opposite is actually more likely. Night is long and boring for town and Sabrar in particular is eager to get back into the game. Every other player had posted and your absence was noticable. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but I am saying that I also considered asking for a prod on you.

So I disagree that Sabrar prodding you indicates scum! Sabrar.
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cemper93
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby cemper93 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:47 pm UTC

BF wrote: Night is long and boring for town and Sabrar in particular is eager to get back into the game. Every other player had posted and your absence was noticable.
Which makes it even more of a cheap shot. You say you considered asking for a prod on me. Why didn't you?

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:10 pm UTC

@cemper: which of my games have you read?

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jimbobmacdoodle
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby jimbobmacdoodle » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:27 pm UTC

@BoomFrog, can you explain why you think cemper said there was no night chat?
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby cemper93 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:30 pm UTC

@cemper: which of my games have you read?
I really don't like the insinuation behind that question. To answer it, zilch. To address the point you're too shy to make openly, no, I don't think that your "eager" meta excuses not even looking at the goddamn time when composing a post. Do I believe it's possible you're just playing a lousy town game? I'm willing to entertain the thought, although right now I just don't buy it. Do I believe that even if that were so, mislynching inconsistent, lazy posting, "I would prefer not to explain anything I do or any read I give" town you would lose us the game? Hell no. My vote stays right where it is.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby cemper93 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:33 pm UTC

EBWOP: Just to be clear here, I'm reacting so strongly because Sabrar is clearly trying to defend himself by throwing shade on his accuser. That's both scummy and just general bad damn taste.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby cemper93 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:36 pm UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog, can you explain why you think cemper said there was no night chat?
I'm pretty sure that at some point I did, in fact, say that, or if I didn't say it, posted clearly under the assumption that it's true.

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LaserGuy
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:56 pm UTC

BoomFrog wrote:
cemper93 wrote:Ugh, I find it hard to phrase this clearly. What I'm saying is that if Sabrar was town, he wouldn't miss a player 18 hours into a day, because the day just started.

I get what you are saying, but I think the opposite is actually more likely. Night is long and boring for town and Sabrar in particular is eager to get back into the game. Every other player had posted and your absence was noticable. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but I am saying that I also considered asking for a prod on you.

So I disagree that Sabrar prodding you indicates scum! Sabrar.


I think it's pretty null, myself. It's a weird slip for Sabrar of either alignment to make; he's usually very conscientious about his prod timings.

I think it rules out a Sabrar/cemper scum team though.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:09 am UTC

cemper93 wrote:
Sabrar wrote:My mistake about the mod-prod, I used day-end to compare the elapsed time to.
This made me go back to the rules to check if scum have nightchat. Apparently they don't. Mother of pings though...


OTOH, cemper's confusion on this issue kind of feels like it might be a genuine townslip.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:43 am UTC

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog, can you explain why you think cemper said there was no night chat?


Well, in the case of scum!cemper my theory is that he genuinely asked the mod at the beginning of night if they were allowed to keep chatting, and then he contrived to bring it up again which is why the logic was so weird. However...

cemper93 wrote:
jimbobmacdoodle wrote:@BoomFrog, can you explain why you think cemper said there was no night chat?
I'm pretty sure that at some point I did, in fact, say that, or if I didn't say it, posted clearly under the assumption that it's true.

This misunderstanding of your question seems very sincere. And if he had contrived to "town-slip" then he would have remembered it distinctly. I now think it was genuine. Someday scum is going to fake one of these "I don't know how scum chat works" town-slips we've been having...

Unvote: Cemper
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:49 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I need this explained. Your behavior around the PW lynch was actually very suspicious in retrospect.
Personal reason, nothing to do with the game. If it's really troubling you I'll give you a hint.

Sorry, we're going to have to get personal. Everyone seems really townie for one reason or another, so I have to reconsider your case.
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bessie
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby bessie » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:42 am UTC

somitomi wrote:First of all, apologies for not being more active, I have an exam coming up.
flicky1991 wrote:[Wow, there is way too much to keep up with...]
somitomi, flicky, just do the best you can to keep up. Some of the IC players tend to be quite enthusiastic, we like to play and we post a lot. But I think that we have lost scope of the intent of this game, this is a newbie game and we should be trying to help out the newer players, not drown them beneath a shit ton of content. I want you to have fun and come back and play more games, and I don’t want to scare off any other potential newbies that may be lurking from signing up for the next one.

somitomi, you’re the closest to confirmed town, so your content is very important. Post whatever you’re thinking. You don’t have to organize it, you don’t have to worry about making a slip and being scum read for it, and it’s OK to be wrong.

BoomFrog wrote:But the way it happened this game, Flicky's alignment doesn't affect scum's desire to lynch PW.
I’m not following you, do you mean scum’s desire not to lynch Peaceful Whale?

BoomFrog wrote: The Plan. Assumptions: Last minute voters in PW are town and Flicky is town.

5 players are in the possible scum category. If one is a PR and they claim early enough they will be proven town, leaving 4 possible scum. We can currently afford two misslynchs without losing the game. If we just lynch from that pool and that pool of four contains both scum then we win the game. But if we lynch two from that pool and get town both times, our confidence will be shaken, and we will doubt The Plan, and we may lynch someone outside the pool and lose.

Of course I'm not 100% sure I'm right about the last two scum bring in the pool, but I think I am.
Convenient that you are not included in your lynch pool, and that your plan requires a PR claim form someone in the pool.

BoomFrog wrote: I kinda want to have Madge claim just so that A) we can discuss her more clearly instead of beating around the bush. And b) so Sabrar and Bessie (and apparently JimBob) can get over it and start focusing on actual scum.
Interesting, at the time you made this post, I was already voting for someone in your lynch pool. BoomFrog, who do you really want to lynch? Your lynch pool is a justification. Who is your actual target?

Sabrar wrote:Purely PoE. I got specific townie-pings from the other remaining suspects and none from you. That said I don't have specific scum-pings from you either. And I'm beginning to doubt the pureness of my pings.
Your soulreads are blinding you; you need to analyze the content.

LaserGuy wrote: bessie being completely uninterested in my behaviour was a red flag for me
Already covered here. You continuing to ignore my rebuttals to your accusations does not make you correct.

Hari Seldon wrote:He did. He wasn't responding to Somi's opinion about PW's post, he was responding to Somi's reaction to Madge's claim.
You are correct. I reread this more carefully, and LaserGuy answered your question.

cemper93 wrote:Because Sabrar has been chatting with his scumbuddy for the entire time. Therefore, to him, the game was still happening during the night and posting was going on. There is no discontinuity in the game for scum like there is for town. It is for this reason that from Sabrar's subjective experience, I was away from the game for pretty long, namely for 18 hours plus the duration of the night, whereas from a town POV, I hadn't even been gone for a day.
I have been thinking about this since I made this post and I think that although I would expect Sabrar to be more careful in checking time stamps, I believe that he was just anxious for you to post, as we need everyone to make at least a quick check in post at the start of each day to claim (or explicitly not claim). I also believe cemper’s mother of pings was valid and would be a very odd observation for scum to make.

BoomFrog wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I need this explained. Your behavior around the PW lynch was actually very suspicious in retrospect.
Personal reason, nothing to do with the game. If it's really troubling you I'll give you a hint.

Sorry, we're going to have to get personal. Everyone seems really townie for one reason or another, so I have to reconsider your case.
I don’t agree. He said it was personal. I don’t think you should push this.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:13 am UTC

bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:But the way it happened this game, Flicky's alignment doesn't affect scum's desire to lynch PW.
I’m not following you, do you mean scum’s desire not to lynch Peaceful Whale?
You're are correct. I worded it weirdly.

BoomFrog wrote: I kinda want to have Madge claim just so that A) we can discuss her more clearly instead of beating around the bush. And b) so Sabrar and Bessie (and apparently JimBob) can get over it and start focusing on actual scum.
Interesting, at the time you made this post, I was already voting for someone in your lynch pool. BoomFrog, who do you really want to lynch? Your lynch pool is a justification. Who is your actual target?
Everyone in the pool has been a contender today. I am leaning town on JimBob since he has twice questioned me about my push against someone and I think scum!JimBob would just let it happen. (LaserGuy and cemper).

That leaves you and LaserGuy, but I don't think you two are buddies. Which leaves Sabrar as the most likely to be scum from outside the pool. Unless I'm just totally wrong about Madge. But only LaserGuy is plausibly buddies with Madge. So Sabrar or LaserGuy seems most likely, with you as third choice.

Bessie wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:
Sabrar wrote:
BoomFrog wrote:I need this explained. Your behavior around the PW lynch was actually very suspicious in retrospect.
Personal reason, nothing to do with the game. If it's really troubling you I'll give you a hint.

Sorry, we're going to have to get personal. Everyone seems really townie for one reason or another, so I have to reconsider your case.
I don’t agree. He said it was personal. I don’t think you should push this.

Alright, I agree I don't want to question personal reasons, but I'm having trouble imagining what things not related to the game can have an effect on a game action like who you vote for. If it's something like "I didn't want to lynch PW D1 because he's young" I think we should just discuss it openly. But if Sabrar insists it's personal, I can accept that. So let's be clear, the things I found concerning were:
1)Sabrar didn't discuss PW when I had said PW was viable.
2)Sabrar voted Madge when the only choices were Madge and PW and Madge was not viable without me.
3)Sabrar said, "doesn't this feel too easy?" when I was driving the wagon for PW.

Were all of these for personal reasons?
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Hari Seldon » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:36 am UTC

I actually would like to hear the reason . It doesn't have to be the reason itself, but an explanation or example of how a personal reason could have influenced an in game action.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:41 am UTC

If I have to I will spell out the reason and I will hate myself doing so. If you want to have a guess, here's the hint I promised, Zen almost got it right.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:43 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:1)Sabrar didn't discuss PW when I had said PW was viable.
2)Sabrar voted Madge when the only choices were Madge and PW and Madge was not viable without me.
3)Sabrar said, "doesn't this feel too easy?" when I was driving the wagon for PW.

Were all of these for personal reasons?
No, none of these. You're missing the actual one.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:47 am UTC

Whatever, I'm tired of this. I'm Watcher. Now go bother someone else.

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:50 am UTC

I'll try to go through each case against me in detail and point out the BS that's been thrown around. Hopefully I'll have the time for it.

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Hari Seldon
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Hari Seldon » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:58 am UTC

:/

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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:07 am UTC

cemper93 wrote:
@cemper: which of my games have you read?
I really don't like the insinuation behind that question. To answer it, zilch. To address the point you're too shy to make openly, no, I don't think that your "eager" meta excuses not even looking at the goddamn time when composing a post. Do I believe it's possible you're just playing a lousy town game? I'm willing to entertain the thought, although right now I just don't buy it. Do I believe that even if that were so, mislynching inconsistent, lazy posting, "I would prefer not to explain anything I do or any read I give" town you would lose us the game? Hell no. My vote stays right where it is.

The point I'm making is that I feel that we should differentiate between personal and general meta-reads. In Secret Santa I read bessie and Madge as Town due to personal reads (was right about Madge, would have been right about bessie as well half a year ago). I felt entitled to making those reads. In contrast I read Liri as Town based on a more general meta-reason, not specific to him. I don't mind people using general meta against me but I feel there is only a handful of players who are entitled to make personal reads on me and you for example are definitely not of them.

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:08 am UTC

I have no counterclaim. I'd like everyone to post something just so I know there are no counterclaims. Obviously real watcher should claim if there is one.
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:11 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:If I have to I will spell out the reason and I will hate myself doing so.

I would have dropped the PW connection based in this. Sorry if I pushed things too far. :(
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Sabrar
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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Sabrar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:12 am UTC

Madge wrote:Random side thought: in case it's not obvious to the doctor, quick FYI: we get no benefit from knowing you're naive (i.e. if you target someone who dies anyway). So if you happen to protect someone who is killed anyway, don't mention you're naive when you claim. Scum should have to try and "outthink" you, or be wary of it. (That said - can doctors self-target?)

@BoomFrog: do you agree that Doctor has absolutely 0 reason to post the above?

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Re: Newbie New Year Mafia - D2

Postby Madge » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:13 am UTC

Doctor can post it for beer.

I do not counterclaim, FWIW
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.


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